Author Merc20HP Posted January 25, 2021 Author Posted January 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Versacehottie said: Thanks. Well great, capitalize on your size. Statistically, that is in your favor. especially if we are talking basic entry fee, lol. Meaning you will get that first hit of attention perhaps easier than a shorter guy. But all guys need to have something to back it up--no matter how they get in the door. I'm not really talking about the inequities in the world--we can talk about that ad nauseam it's not going to help you. Also I'm going to assume you don't want a girl dim-witted enough to just like a guy for his looks and never moves on once she knows there's nothing else there; I'm assuming you want what your marketability can get or better--like most normal people. And want to find someone nice to look at on the outside and redeeming/good qualities on the inside. And apparently can put up with your lone wolf stuff lol. I'm about stats when I have them, so I'm going to tell you that you might be able to get away with the lone wolf stuff once you are dating a girlfriend (and even then I agree, depending on who you pick maybe, maybe not) BUT guys that do better with women statistically don't operate alone. You don't need to manufacture fake best friends, but I would definitely encourage you to do some socializing in groups, including groups of guys. It might seem like hanging out with a group of guys is a waste of time in your mind but people are generally drawn more to those that hang out in groups AND for you, it increase your social circle. If I'm looking at what you've told us so far, it sounds like you work and have been married and do you lone wolf stuff, including solo fishing. IMO, you aren't exposing yourself to enough people to know whether or not you get much attention. Like you pool of those who cross your path is relatively small. I'll also take a stab at the guess that if you fish regularly, you must live somewhere where that would be convenient, like in a more suburban or rural area vs a city--again, that decreases the people crossing your circle. Not saying this to discourage you, only to make you see that how you've spent your time (coupled up, doing solo activities and perhaps in a low population density area) have all contributed to you not having enough chances to fully feel what your attraction to other women is. Maybe right now you are in a low place and don't know how to begin. Especially if you live in a suburban or rural area, it may feel like your life is drastically different than any another single person around you and that you need to have these looks on point. I would just say that most single women--if you do live in an area like that--are in a similar situation. So open your mind to the options you could do to meet people and TEST your attractiveness. And again women won't really separate it. Among the first questions you would be asked or must be listed on a OLD profile ask what you do, what are you about. In part because women really do care about that stuff (perhaps too much but that's another subject). Do you have nice hair, facial features, teeth? I get that you sound frustrated but the world is not going to change. Pure and simple the initial impression you make is on looks, like you are noticing. It's a foot in the door, that's all. Let's assume you want to make a better first impression. Ok, what are you going to do in the areas that pertain to looks? Happy to advise here but you need to be willing to want to do it, rather than complain about it (maybe you are just getting started and haven't said yet, but spit out some tangible details you are willing to work on about looks). I can tell you until I'm blue in the face that the other stuff matters (and that you can probably improve in internal areas as well) but I understand you are talking about external and I'm sure you can improve there too & I agree it's valuable to do so (for ANYONE!) Your posts are proving the most insightful to me. I agree about expanding my social circle. What's funny is that back in high school, I had a fantastic and large group of friends. As a result I noticed many girls were interested in me. But now I am halfway across the country in an area where I basically live in only because my kids are here. I wouldn't be here otherwise. Kind of sucks. But whatever that's life, I've accepted it. I've attempted the OLD with OkCupid, but of course it has to be Covid hysteria right now so very few women want to go on dates. I also am now using MeetUp, and hoping to find some social circles with areas that interest me. As far as working on my physical appearance, as I've said I'm doing workouts now. I'm also making progress on my posture. I've never had the best posture, but lately I've made some big improvements. I'm trying to carry myself more confidently. Just the other day I noticed one of my female coworkers looking at my arms. As far as career/finances, I've made a huge leap in the last few years. I'm doing pretty well. So that's not an issue. I think the main issue is inside my head. I don't even attempt to seek out relationships with women because I assume (probably incorrectly) that none will accept my lone wolf lifestyle. Don't get me wrong. I hang out with close family and friends, but they're mostly out of town. I have trouble finding new friends though. To me it's just safer to keep to myself. I don't have to risk disillusionment and it's the only sure-fire way to keep me from getting divorce-raped again and drug through the family courts. Eh. So it's like I want it and DON'T want it at the same time.
Versacehottie Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 dramafreezone's post was really good! There's another thing to all of what he said that sometimes goes right over the heads of some guys (and people in general)....if you are with one good looking/cool/something special about her girl, all of sudden other girls will want in just because of that. It's like a competitive thing girls do among themselves (without realizing it really). But it's like you've been vetted as worthy. So if you do go out with a good looking girl, lol, kind of make sure other girls know! You can do this even if the women don't know each other by showing a photo of her to your girl friends at work. Idk, word typically gets around. I can't believe I'm giving you this secret Anyway I know that type of game playing isn't really what you should be going for overall but if having a few dates and some attention from pretty girls is what you want, you can kind of bootstrap your way up like that if that opportunity arises. Also back to the real world and your real love life, it only takes one person to be the right one. It's a numbers game as far as finding them--so you want to maximize how you represent yourself, and how many people you are being exposed to, then target the right people and not fear too much, seize the day, you know. I truly believe that "to get your best", you need to "be your best", in all ways. obviously people all have limits and it gets more competitive as you move up the pyramid but I think sometimes people's frustration comes from not being able to do their best at one point in time (like girls that put up old photos and they are really 30 pounds heavier; they don't really want to do the work to be the weight they are presenting themselves as and they don't want to wait until they are; for example, if they presented themselves as they are now, they would get less matches likely so they would rather deceive and hope a miracle takes place); I think, in your case, working toward whatever you are working toward (career, fitness) is in itself attractive as long as you aren't half-a**ing it and that it's not hot air where you fall on and off your progress. If you are completely happy where you are and AS you are, then market yourself now in this current version of you. Understandably, it sounds like you've just been through a really hard time. My guess is it will take a little bit of time to reset mentally & simultaneously you could do work on the exterior stuff with no immediate agenda to put it into play (that could be pretty freeing for a few months, not to pressure yourself). Ok good luck 3
smackie9 Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 You are ready..have no doubts, have fun, be bold and relish in it. 1
Wolfie87 Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Merc20HP said: I think the main issue is inside my head. I don't even attempt to seek out relationships with women because I assume (probably incorrectly) that none will accept my lone wolf lifestyle. Don't get me wrong. I hang out with close family and friends, but they're mostly out of town. I have trouble finding new friends though. To me it's just safer to keep to myself. I don't have to risk disillusionment and it's the only sure-fire way to keep me from getting divorce-raped again and drug through the family courts. Eh. So it's like I want it and DON'T want it at the same time. This right here is the issue I always have too and the issue I'm currently going through myself. I made a post about it here on the board and one of the other users ( @smackie9 I actually am thinking about what you're saying, BTW) made a pretty good point to me (that I was pretty much making excuses to not follow through with being with someone, while saying that I did in fact did want to be with said person) while I was describing my thought process and it seems a lot what you said here. Though, my issues stem from another place then they do you, however. I'm essentially afraid of rejection due to the countless amount of times I've been turned down. The best thing we can do for ourselves is try to work on the things we can fix, and let go of the things we can't. Just because you don't look like an actor doesn't really mean someone won't look at you and think that you're attractive. I have the same mindset, but I'm trying to do what I am able to with my appearance (short of surgery, of course, that's never worth it in my mind, natural genetics are WAY more attractive than cosmetic surgery in my mind when I look at a woman, so it's possible), and the rest I'm trying really really hard to show through confidence and how I treat those around me. I may slip, and I may continue to slip, but I'm noticing little by little that even a simple "hi, how are ya?" at work can make all the difference to those around you. I get what you say by "wanting it and not wanting it at the same time" especially how things in the past has gone, but not everyone is abusive like your ex was. There's a lot of good out there, just gotta find the good ones and know that you're better than the negativity that gets thrown at you because you may not be the perfect example of exactly a partner may want. Though, I will certainly admit, I totally get the mindset. I find it really hard to put it practice myself. I get a what a lot of people here say, and I think a lot of them are right. Getting the concept and then actually following through with it is hard and confusing, but I'm sure we both can do it and get a little bit of peace. Edited January 25, 2021 by Wolfie87 3
smackie9 Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) It just takes practice. Ask those out who do not intimidate you. You don't have to follow through with a second date....it just gets your confidence up.....feel more sure of yourself. Edited January 25, 2021 by smackie9 1
Versacehottie Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Merc20HP said: Your posts are proving the most insightful to me. I agree about expanding my social circle. What's funny is that back in high school, I had a fantastic and large group of friends. As a result I noticed many girls were interested in me. But now I am halfway across the country in an area where I basically live in only because my kids are here. I wouldn't be here otherwise. Kind of sucks. But whatever that's life, I've accepted it. I've attempted the OLD with OkCupid, but of course it has to be Covid hysteria right now so very few women want to go on dates. I also am now using MeetUp, and hoping to find some social circles with areas that interest me. As far as working on my physical appearance, as I've said I'm doing workouts now. I'm also making progress on my posture. I've never had the best posture, but lately I've made some big improvements. I'm trying to carry myself more confidently. Just the other day I noticed one of my female coworkers looking at my arms. As far as career/finances, I've made a huge leap in the last few years. I'm doing pretty well. So that's not an issue. I think the main issue is inside my head. I don't even attempt to seek out relationships with women because I assume (probably incorrectly) that none will accept my lone wolf lifestyle. Don't get me wrong. I hang out with close family and friends, but they're mostly out of town. I have trouble finding new friends though. To me it's just safer to keep to myself. I don't have to risk disillusionment and it's the only sure-fire way to keep me from getting divorce-raped again and drug through the family courts. Eh. So it's like I want it and DON'T want it at the same time. Thank you. Lots of the posts I've read are good TBH! And I haven't read them all (keep getting side tracked). I think it's wise to listen to what women have to say because we are target audience and think like other women and wise to listen to the guys because they've been there and know what it takes or doesn't take. Great, so if you had a good social circle back in high school, you can likely do it again. If you were married, you just got out of the loop that's all, which seems to happen to a lot of people. Making friends after a divorce/at a different age will probably look different than it did before but I'm sure you can do it. You just need to be strategic and seize opportunities. Meetup and shared hobbies sounds like a great place to start. And what about stuff with your kids and playdates with other single moms and other single dads? I think step one need to be get yourself closer to looking like you want to look and more comfortable with yourself and confident via enjoying life and supported and inspired by friends (new friends). Maybe hold off on dating for idk 2-3 months--then hopefully it will match with you feeling your best, looking your best & more girls on there. Posture is huge! 70-80% of communication is body language so how you carry yourself will convey A LOT to others about how you feel about yourself and what you have to offer internally. You want to carry yourself with confidence that says "i have a lot to offer, I am fun; I am all these great things, I hope we like each other but I will be ok in the world no matter what". That kind of thing. I'm thinking if you are naturally a loner & have been through abuse & feeling down right now that your body language might say "don't talk to me!" or "i have a secret", those kind of things. I think you should pick an area of life that is going well and utilize it for good feelings that you can build upon and take to other areas of life and fall back on when certain other areas don't go well. You want to be careful of how you CHOOSE to characterize what is going on with you and what you are about....and then reflect the good things in your posture. Ok, what you are saying in your last paragraph says to me if I'm hearing you and reading between the lines that you really aren't ready to date yet and are still processing the hurt. If you primary overriding feeling is trying to escape the pain and avoid certain parts of dating, then you probably aren't really ready. When you get a little more ready, try to date casually, don't think much beyond date one, two or three. Keep in the present . At some point the feeling of what you are worried about will be replaced by what you are excited about and wanting to leap for when you are ready and meet a promising person. Maybe you are trying to force it too much when you did OK cupid or right now thinking in your head that you should be dating. What a freedom that would be if you take the pressure off yourself. Personally, I think you are seeing the world a little too cynically right now (based on your first couple of posts to be super successful at dating at the moment). Like you might get attention but it won't be the type of attention you want or it won't last/crash & burn. Remember my theory, your best pulls the best you can date. So if you put yourself out there when you are underperforming as a person and it's not in your internally, you won't be able to meet the right person for you or won't connect with them properly IMO. But keep yourself on track. No one should want to stay in the reset mode forever or for too long. the goal should be to get out there soon enough. Put some real goals on paper and seriously work toward them. Working out is a great one because it connects mind-body and endorphins and all that so you can generate some of the good feelings you are hoping to have and confidence just from working out. Whereas perhaps a new haircut might not have that same effect (unless you get specific compliments on it). But btw, definitely address those things with grooming. Self-care is a positive cycle as well. You will be pouring effort into yourself (which you probably haven't been doing the last few years) and this should make you feel better/look better. I'm glad you said that you think it's something going on in your head. You cannot leave that out of the equation. If you make a perfect looking outside but are still broken on the inside, you might snag a date with the girl of your dreams, only to blow it because you are still broken. Definitely take this time to sort that stuff out. I'm imagining if there was abuse and you have been shutting down and shutting out, this is something that needs to be worked on (sorry, it's just the truth). I don't want you to go through all this external stuff and then not get what you want in the world from a relationship and you have to be in a relatively healthy place in your head for that to happen in a healthy relationship. Edited January 25, 2021 by Versacehottie 2
Author Merc20HP Posted January 25, 2021 Author Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, smackie9 said: It just takes practice. Ask those out who do not intimidate you. You don't have to follow through with a second date....it just gets your confidence up. That's actually good advice. I might do that. There was this dental hygienist at my appointment last week who kept on talking to me (even after the appointment was over). I found her average looking and somewhat easy to talk with. Maybe I'll just be like, what the hell...let's get lunch. Edited January 25, 2021 by Merc20HP 1
basil67 Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 6 hours ago, Merc20HP said: I guess I’m just realizing how differently women think. In a way it seems unfair because a woman is judged based on who she IS (and how she looks) while a man is judged by what he DOES. Women are human beings, men are human doings. You’ll see women who are naturally gorgeous with no personality at all, they’ll find a man easy, even a doctor. Men have to continuously prove themselves, each day. I'm not sure where you came up with this idea. But I would argue that it's untrue and does a great disservice to most men and women out there.....but most importantly, to yourself. Women get dumped all the time. Even beautiful women get dumped. And in most cases, no amount of beauty makes up for being unable to hold a conversation or for being a total screw up. Meanwhile, as a woman (who's been with her partner for nearly 30 years) I don't know what you mean by men having to prove themselves, each day. Yes, some women and men do judge others by beauty first. But have a look around at the majority of couples in the street - they are all degrees of average appearance, and yet they find love. If you're a good guy and your looks are within the realms of average, you'll be fine. Granted, you'll need to find a woman who doesn't judge by looks first and who loves you, but the result will be someone who will still love you when you're old a craggy...and she's worth far more than someone who's shallow about attraction. 5
Weezy1973 Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 The main issue OP is that you lack self worth, defining self worth as worthy of being loved just for who you are. And it’s nothing more than a belief. You don’t believe it; you believe you have to earn it by doing. You’re wrong. 3
chillii Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Versacehottie said: dramafreezone's post was really good! There's another thing to all of what he said that sometimes goes right over the heads of some guys (and people in general)....if you are with one good looking/cool/something special about her girl, all of sudden other girls will want in just because of that. It's like a competitive thing girls do among themselves (without realizing it really). But it's like you've been vetted as worthy. So if you do go out with a good looking girl, lol, kind of make sure other girls know! You can do this even if the women don't know each other by showing a photo of her to your girl friends at work. Idk, word typically gets around. I can't believe I'm giving you this secret Anyway I know that type of game playing isn't really what you should be going for overall but if having a few dates and some attention from pretty girls is what you want, you can kind of bootstrap your way up like that if that opportunity arises. Also back to the real world and your real love life, it only takes one person to be the right one. It's a numbers game as far as finding them--so you want to maximize how you represent yourself, and how many people you are being exposed to, then target the right people and not fear too much, seize the day, you know. I truly believe that "to get your best", you need to "be your best", in all ways. obviously people all have limits and it gets more competitive as you move up the pyramid but I think sometimes people's frustration comes from not being able to do their best at one point in time (like girls that put up old photos and they are really 30 pounds heavier; they don't really want to do the work to be the weight they are presenting themselves as and they don't want to wait until they are; for example, if they presented themselves as they are now, they would get less matches likely so they would rather deceive and hope a miracle takes place); I think, in your case, working toward whatever you are working toward (career, fitness) is in itself attractive as long as you aren't half-a**ing it and that it's not hot air where you fall on and off your progress. If you are completely happy where you are and AS you are, then market yourself now in this current version of you. Understandably, it sounds like you've just been through a really hard time. My guess is it will take a little bit of time to reset mentally & simultaneously you could do work on the exterior stuff with no immediate agenda to put it into play (that could be pretty freeing for a few months, not to pressure yourself). Ok good luck Haaa none of this are secrets l'm afraid guys know all this stuff we live it that's why chicks always seem to be interested when your with your gf wife or have a ring. The rest of it and the so called insight is just common sense, Obviously if your a loner with loner hobbies you need to get around people obviously having some friends help the more the better , you obviously do some work on yourself being out there again , matter of fact all that's usually a sign a women's about to leave her marriage , men to probably , suddenly theylre looking better than they have in yrs doin gym and clothes and new looks . You've already been working on it and know it all op and good for you. l was divorced and we can say one thing about it it's a great time for a new life new you haha, Things come together and down the track next minute there's too many- true story . Edited January 25, 2021 by chillii 1
Miss Spider Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 Im sure someone would find you sexy. There is a lid for every pot, or whatever. Not everyone’s most sexually attracted to bearded muscly men 1
elaine567 Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 2 hours ago, chillii said: that's why chicks always seem to be interested when your with your gf wife or have a ring. I guess they are not really interested, just relaxed because they know you are "safe" and you are not going to go into predator mode. She can be herself, she can even joke around and treat you as a normal human being, instead of always being on guard, in case she gives you the wrong idea... Many women will flirt with married/attached guys for fun, because there is an easy "out". "Sorry I would love to go out with/sleep with you but you are married...!" 1
ThatDude76 Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 I totally understand the way you're feeling, I feel the exact same way. I want a woman to like me for my personality, but to also find me physically attractive. I think its really important, and I have heard enough (both online and in real life) about a woman being in a relationship with a man she didn't find physically attractive. If a woman dose not find me physically attractive, I don't want to be in a relationship with her, even if she likes who I am. I don't want to have a win a girl over with charm just cause she thinks I'm "meh" looking. Id like a girl who thinks I'm "hot", and charming. Let me know if you figure it out, I'm pretty much like you, but 5'6" and not 6'1" . 2 1
mark clemson Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 21 hours ago, smackie9 said: How you talk to us intellectually, your body language, how attentive you are, your vibe, confidence, how you carry yourself, plays an even bigger role on what attracts us. There are some things you can change and others you can't. If you're trying to be more attractive to women, don't underestimate the importance of these things Smackie9 mentioned. Those are things you can experiment a bit with and "work on" over time. They are significant in attraction, and I believe that for a certain (probably small) % of women, they are VERY significant, almost to the level of a fetish. You will see some men walking around with apparently unnecessarily exaggerated body language because they have figured this out. It's certainly something you can bring into play while looking for a woman. "Women prefer the voices, scent, movement, gait, and facial features of dominant men." - from A Billion Wicked Thoughts I will note ABWTs also says (not that these are issues for you): "Intelligence is also essential." So of course you will want to bring your brains and social skills in as well. 1
ccas93 Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) physically attractive 27 year old guy here. Been a pro athlete and I am really fit and strong, pretty full head of hair, etc. I would say it doesn't help as much as you'd think in dating, esp if you want a girl on your level of attractiveness. Hooking up, sure. But for actually dating women who are your counterpart - fit, good looking, blah blah blah, those women generally have so much male attention, you can kinda get lost in the noise unless you're supremely confident, successful, etc. Esp if you live in a huge urban area like I do. The other "perk" (I guess) is women who I go on dates with, who don't feel a "spark" with me - they say hey, what the hell, let's have casual fun with him anyway. I don't find this much of a perk at all anymore. More just annoying. The other drawback is you don't get that much attention in public because people assume you're confident, know what you want, or that you must have a girlfriend, etc so it can be hard to tell who's interested. I usually do not know who in the room is attracted unless I'm with a friend and he's like "oh she was looking at you" Then when you do finally run into a woman who is your physical counterpart - often turns out to be kinda shallow, vapid, stuck up, jaded by all the attention, etc. Being "hot" is a perk I guess, but mostly helps with hooking up and dating down. It's a superficial quality, so it gets you superficial rewards. In my experience, it has not opened up a world of potential life partners. Edited January 25, 2021 by ccas93 5
Versacehottie Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 1 hour ago, ccas93 said: Being "hot" is a perk I guess, but mostly helps with hooking up and dating down. It's a superficial quality, so it gets you superficial rewards. In my experience, it has not opened up a world of potential life partners. Agree ^^^^ that thinking the grass is greener if you are good looking is not always exactly how it goes down. Good looking guys still have to weed through perhaps many more women, who are beautiful on the surface so they might have a physical attraction initially but then if they are a great guy they are looking for the other components as well which take time and are harder to discover within a person (ie it will take a while to uncover and test for them basically). Girls can get shy to hit on them or play so many games assuming that's what they need to do or due to overall insecurity about the guy having so many options or that the guy is already taken. One of my guy friends who is a little less good looking than the rest of them (tall, fit but a little closer to average in the face) actually does REALLY well with girls, always. He kind of comes in a swoops up. Granted he is confident and charming with a great career but so are the other guys. I feel like I've seen this phenomenon a lot. Some guys you notice right away and are kind of stunned by how good looking they are (which i would argue comes AS MUCH from their confidence and presence as anything) and then other guys you "discover" that physical attractiveness. I think sometimes the same thing happens with girls. Some girls are stunning/knockouts and others might have more classic or down to earth beauty which can be just as beautiful feature for feature, it just doesn't hit you over the head the first time you see the person. Also another girl secret lol which I'm sure you guys know, often girls are really adept at all the smoke and mirrors that make guys on a glance think they are beautiful but it's a little manufactured and/or they actually are not half as pretty as you think. It's doesn't usually hurt them if it comes with a huge dose of the right confidence, which it often does. 1
dramafreezone Posted January 25, 2021 Posted January 25, 2021 3 hours ago, ThatDude76 said: I totally understand the way you're feeling, I feel the exact same way. I want a woman to like me for my personality, but to also find me physically attractive. I think its really important, and I have heard enough (both online and in real life) about a woman being in a relationship with a man she didn't find physically attractive. If a woman dose not find me physically attractive, I don't want to be in a relationship with her, even if she likes who I am. I don't want to have a win a girl over with charm just cause she thinks I'm "meh" looking. Id like a girl who thinks I'm "hot", and charming. Let me know if you figure it out, I'm pretty much like you, but 5'6" and not 6'1" . Here's the thing, if you're in a relationship with her, odds are that you are physically attractive to her, at least attractive enough. It's the other attributes that can have her thinking that you're the most handsome man in the world. If a woman says she's in a relationship with a man that she doesnt find physically attractive, it's probably because he's gotten comfortable and isn't doing the things that he used to do that attracted her in the first place. In those beginning stages she was attracted, or they would've never started the relationship. Once she says she's not attracted, then she's probably ready to leave. That can be the case with any guy, doesn't matter what he looks like. Do you think these women that divorce guys like John Stamos think he's all that attractive? Sure in their minds they know that he possesses physical traits that most find attractive, but for her to get divorced she probably can't stand the sight of him anymore. She doesn't get that butterflies feeling looking at him. So what good are looks at that point? As long as you make a passing grade physically in her eyes, it just takes time and chemistry for you to turn into the hottest man in the world to her. 1
Trail Blazer Posted January 26, 2021 Posted January 26, 2021 On 1/25/2021 at 12:08 PM, basil67 said: I'm not sure where you came up with this idea. But I would argue that it's untrue and does a great disservice to most men and women out there.....but most importantly, to yourself. Women get dumped all the time. Even beautiful women get dumped. And in most cases, no amount of beauty makes up for being unable to hold a conversation or for being a total screw up. Meanwhile, as a woman (who's been with her partner for nearly 30 years) I don't know what you mean by men having to prove themselves, each day. Yes, some women and men do judge others by beauty first. But have a look around at the majority of couples in the street - they are all degrees of average appearance, and yet they find love. If you're a good guy and your looks are within the realms of average, you'll be fine. Granted, you'll need to find a woman who doesn't judge by looks first and who loves you, but the result will be someone who will still love you when you're old a craggy...and she's worth far more than someone who's shallow about attraction. Men don't judge (or often even care) what women do for a living, so long as she has some income and won't be completely reliant/dependent on him financially. Men, on the other hand, are absolutely judged on what they do for a living. Men judge other men all the time on this. The level of respect men give other men has a lot to do with what they do for a living. Likewise, the amount of attraction a woma feel towards a man can largely depend on his job or life accomplishments. As long as a woman is pretty and has a nice personality, a guy will be happily be with her. Equally, men will respect another guy based on how hot his wife or girlfriend is, without even uttering the words, "yeah, but what has she accomplished in her life". 1
cleverusername Posted January 26, 2021 Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) Dude, you're 6'1 and in good shape according to you. That means that your looks aren't the problem, you are lacking self confidence, and judging by your post it makes total sense. Stop worrying about everyone else around you and just own being you. Everything doesn't need to be a comparison or competition. I am 6'3 and in good shape just like you (minus the age and divorce part). I got asked out by a woman last night. I get hit on all the time. Did I do anything special? No. Do I look like Ryan Gosling or Bradley Cooper? No. All I do is be myself, be friendly, kind, compassionate, and do my own thing not trying to compete with everyone around me, just enjoying being me. Women love confidence. Women love authenticity. The real world isn't a beauty contest its a vibe check. Start putting out some positive vibes my man. Edited January 26, 2021 by cleverusername 2
dramafreezone Posted January 26, 2021 Posted January 26, 2021 25 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said: Men don't judge (or often even care) what women do for a living, so long as she has some income and won't be completely reliant/dependent on him financially. Men, on the other hand, are absolutely judged on what they do for a living. Men judge other men all the time on this. The level of respect men give other men has a lot to do with what they do for a living. Likewise, the amount of attraction a woma feel towards a man can largely depend on his job or life accomplishments. As long as a woman is pretty and has a nice personality, a guy will be happily be with her. Equally, men will respect another guy based on how hot his wife or girlfriend is, without even uttering the words, "yeah, but what has she accomplished in her life". All true. But look at it like this. Looks fade, so in a way I don't envy women at all. Sure the world is an oyster for an extremely attactive 24 year old woman, but many times it's a different story at 34. And I'm sure they get tired of the f***boys after a while. And I imagine it's a lot of pressure to be judged mostly for your looks. Think of the things women do to look good for men; they wear dresses to the point where they can't breathe, they wear high heeled shoes that none of them can think is comfortable, they cake makeup on their faces, they get their hair done, their nails done, they pluck perfectly good eyebrows out of their head and then paint them in. It's a lot and I really don't envy all they have to do to appeal to men. At least as a guy all I have to be is a 5/10 in her eyes and then the rest of my qualities can raise her interest. I think it's a fair exchange when you consider all of that.
Trail Blazer Posted January 26, 2021 Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, dramafreezone said: All true. But look at it like this. Looks fade, so in a way I don't envy women at all. Sure the world is an oyster for an extremely attactive 24 year old woman, but many times it's a different story at 34. And I'm sure they get tired of the f***boys after a while. And I imagine it's a lot of pressure to be judged mostly for your looks. Think of the things women do to look good for men; they wear dresses to the point where they can't breathe, they wear high heeled shoes that none of them can think is comfortable, they cake makeup on their faces, they get their hair done, their nails done, they pluck perfectly good eyebrows out of their head and then paint them in. It's a lot and I really don't envy all they have to do to appeal to men. At least as a guy all I have to be is a 5/10 in her eyes and then the rest of my qualities can raise her interest. I think it's a fair exchange when you consider all of that. Looks fade whether you're attractive or unattractive. A smokin' hot 20-year-old, providing she looks after herself, is still going to be hot when she's 50. She's probably just not going to be hot to (most) 20-year-olds, that's all. At 34? Damn, bro! My girlfriend is 37 and still gets asked for I.D. at the liquor store. In fact, she's just finished her third University degree, and most students and lecturers initially assumed she was straight out of high school when she enrolled because she looks so young for her age. As for f*** boys, yeah, they get sick of them, but only when they're not looking for them! Most women deep down would be flattered to be hit on by a younger guy, so long as he's respectful when she rejects his advances. I remember my girlfriend telling me about the times she was hit on by guys in her college campus who were at least 10 years her junior. They didn't know that, but she declined as she isn't interested in younger guys. When I asked her if she was flattered, she said, "well, there's worse things in life that could happen to someone." When one considers the efforts the average female would put into their looks, of course, women would put more effort than men. While I can take five minutes once I'm out of the shower, some women might take an hour. I find that the best looking women are usually the ones not spending the most amount of time getting ready, though. My gf takes about five minutes longer than me to get ready, because all she'll do is brush her hair and tie/clip it back in a pony tail and then put on some tinted moisturizer. That's all she needs to do daily and she looks beautiful and natural. You see other women, the ones who have poor skin or who are self-conscious or just not very nice looking, will cake themselves in make-up and probably take an hour to get ready. They're not maintaining their beauty, they're trying to enhance it well beyond what it is naturally. It's those women who I feel more for. 5/10 plain Janes or below, who know that other women judge them for how they look, and men's level of physical attraction towards them will depend on how good they look. That would be some pressure to maintain. So, I agree with your last paragraph. A 5/10 guy who's got it all going for him in other ways will be able to punch well above his weight when it comes to pulling the ladies. OP would best be served to remember this, also. Looks don't matter as much to women when they're looking to attain and keep a life partner. Edited January 26, 2021 by Trail Blazer
basil67 Posted January 26, 2021 Posted January 26, 2021 3 hours ago, Trail Blazer said: Men, on the other hand, are absolutely judged on what they do for a living. Men judge other men all the time on this. <snip> Equally, men will respect another guy based on how hot his wife or girlfriend is, without even uttering the words, "yeah, but what has she accomplished in her life". I just asked my husband all of this. He did some very confused faces. He said that if this were true, he wouldn't respect mates who drive trucks, the tradesmen and the call centre guy. He says that he respects a guy based on how good a bloke he is. Regarding respecting another guy based on how hot his wife/gf is, the guys he meets are generally through work and he forms an opinion on them based on what kind of guy he is at work. If he finds out that the guy has an attractive partner, he'll go back to what kind of guy the workmate is. If he's a good bloke, he'll think that his geniality will have given him more choice of women and he got lucky with a pretty woman. If the guy is a douche, he'll suspect that the woman is either a gold digger or equally douchy. Either way, it won't impact his view of the man. Also, he's said that he can become attracted to an average looking woman if her personality is the bomb. Given your lack of supporting research, I think you're confusing your own views as being the views of all men. 1
elaine567 Posted January 26, 2021 Posted January 26, 2021 3 hours ago, basil67 said: Given your lack of supporting research, I think you're confusing your own views as being the views of all men. Agreed. It depends on the demographic and individual's in that demographic as to how important a woman's job is. Some men are intimidated by clever successful women some men basically want a housekeeper, a nanny and a lackey to boss around. If she looks good then so much the better... BUT many men are looking for an equal partner and some men are even looking for a provider... Different courses for different horses. Seems to me men with chips on their shoulders, love to wheel this one out. Women are only really good for one thing...
Trail Blazer Posted January 26, 2021 Posted January 26, 2021 4 hours ago, basil67 said: I just asked my husband all of this. He did some very confused faces. He said that if this were true, he wouldn't respect mates who drive trucks, the tradesmen and the call centre guy. He says that he respects a guy based on how good a bloke he is. Regarding respecting another guy based on how hot his wife/gf is, the guys he meets are generally through work and he forms an opinion on them based on what kind of guy he is at work. If he finds out that the guy has an attractive partner, he'll go back to what kind of guy the workmate is. If he's a good bloke, he'll think that his geniality will have given him more choice of women and he got lucky with a pretty woman. If the guy is a douche, he'll suspect that the woman is either a gold digger or equally douchy. Either way, it won't impact his view of the man. Also, he's said that he can become attracted to an average looking woman if her personality is the bomb. Given your lack of supporting research, I think you're confusing your own views as being the views of all men. The guy who drives trucks, the guy who works a trade, they're all noble careers in my mind. Nothing wrong with that at all. I wasn't suggesting anyone who wasn't a doctor or a lawyer would be looked down upon. In any case, I never suggested that how attractive one's wife/partner happens to be is the sole metric (along with what profession a guy works in) by which he is judged. I am just saying that it is a thing you hear guys comment to other guys about, though. Getting back to your question, which is more pertinent to the topic; guys are judged on what they do by women far more than what men judge women by what they do. It's far more important to most women what a guy does for a job than vice versa.
Fletch Lives Posted January 26, 2021 Posted January 26, 2021 You need to get your attitude up. If a woman falls in love with you, she'll think you look better than you really do!
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