Argument and not speaking

[d0nnivain]

10 hours ago, Alora24 said:

I'm embarrassed right now to even talk to him, and I keep feeling like maybe he didn't care and meant what he said. I may just decide to let it go. I screwed up too. I think he got me at a vulnerable, weak time as I was having some issues myself and I made myself look pathetic. 

Apparently your pride is more important than you relationship.  What does that tell you? 

You can leave it go; you can reach out or you could wait until this summer when he is allegedly moving back to where you & his family are.  Maybe you will have better luck when you close the distance. 

[Saracena]

On 1/21/2021 at 5:26 AM, Alora24 said:

He text me later that night and he was drinking and went off on me. He said hurtful things how I knew he was hurting and wouldn't listen, and even said he didn't want to talk to me and leave him alone. He tried to say things to make me feel guilty and like I didn't listen to how he felt

So all of this was over text? What else did he say apart from what you've stated?

As someone who abhors lashing out (esp verbal as I find it hurtful and upsetting) I understand how you would feel but as it stands this doesn't sound abusive to me.

[Alora24]

5 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

Apparently your pride is more important than you relationship.  What does that tell you? 

You can leave it go; you can reach out or you could wait until this summer when he is allegedly moving back to where you & his family are.  Maybe you will have better luck when you close the distance. 

I guess in my head the more time that passes I feel he doesn't care and meant what he said maybe. I guess me saying I hoped he had a great year was me saying I wasn't going to talk to him anymore and as my mom said kind of a smart ass thing to say. I probably have asked to many opinions I have friends saying reach out some saying never speak to him again. 

[Alora24]

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately he's not really who you think he is. The shared past is obscuring things. 

In reality, you don't know each other, just what you remember and whatever recent communication.

Step way back from this.  Have you googled  him, his address, etc? Seems like you don't know what you are dealing with, but you may think you do because of commonality.

Yes he has showed me on video his place. He really does live where he says I have looked. I think also with us having mutual friends and knowing things through the years I feel more like I know things I guess.

But I told him I was taking a step back and I have.

[Alora24]

5 hours ago, Saracena said:

So all of this was over text? What else did he say apart from what you've stated?

As someone who abhors lashing out (esp verbal as I find it hurtful and upsetting) I understand how you would feel but as it stands this doesn't sound abusive to me.

It really wasn't much more than what I have told. I was surprised he wrote me later that night after I said I was stepping back. Now looking back maybe he was just trying to talk he just kind of text something joking around which he seems to do when he doesn't know what to say.

He did say a few things to try and make me feel guilty. I won't lie some of our convos were sexual at times and he told me I was to busy talking about sex it was all I cared about and I missed the true meaning of him saying he was hurting etc. Which is completely not true he was trying to put blame on me I guess. I did say right before he blew up I can't stand you sometimes but I was joking and I talk like this sometimes jokingly and he knows that. Of course it was text and he can't know for sure my tone but any other time he would know I was but blew up after that. 

I guess some of this was my fault but he reacted bad. My friend said never talk to him again and I did nothing wrong. I think I completely over reacted about certain things and some was my fault. But when someone is writing at times so attentive and loving like we talked all Christmas eve and Christmas night right before this then goes days and it seems different well to me even though he thinks nothing I don't deal with well. 

[poppyfields]

Hi Alora, I'm now back to agreeing with smackie's post discussing vulnerability.  I just re-read it. 

I know I can be a bit smart assy at times too (in a playful way), and over text when a man is trying to be real with me, it gets misinterpreted and well, just comes across all wrong.  

Its real easy to misinterpret over text or email, especially when genuine feelings begin to develop.  Messaging is great in so many ways but absolutely sucks as a way to communicate feelings, when they're genuine.

Fears, anxieties, insecurities begin to surface, which goes back to what smackie posted about vulnerability.

His and yours. 

I know you are receiving a lot of conflicting advice, but please consider swallowing pride and stepping away from your ego and giving him a call, or text if you're more comfortable with that. 

Even if it's to just apologize for your role in the argument, to say you care and perhaps it's best to put everything on hold until the summer when he moves back.

It would appear neither of you are able to handle the distance very well.

I just posted this on another thread, that there is a saying that I personally have been thinking a lot about lately - hurt people, hurt people.  

He was hurting (for whatever reason) and in turn, he lashed out in an ugly way and hurt you. 

It can become a vicious toxic cycle. 

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by poppyfields

[Alora24]

3 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Hi Alora, I'm now back to agreeing with smackie's post discussing vulnerability.  I just re-read it. 

I know I can be a bit smart assy at times too (in a playful way), and over text when a man is trying to be real with me, it gets misinterpreted and well, just comes across all wrong.  

Its real easy to misinterpret over text or email, especially when genuine feelings begin to develop.  Messaging is great in so many ways but absolutely sucks as a way to communicate feelings, when they're genuine.

Fears, anxieties, insecurities begin to surface, which goes back to what smackie posted about vulnerability.

His and yours. 

I know you are receiving a lot of conflicting advice, but please consider swallowing pride and stepping away from your ego and giving him a call, or text if you're more comfortable with that. 

Even if it's to just apologize for your role in the argument, to say you care and perhaps it's best to put everything on hold until the summer when he moves back.

It would appear neither of you are able to handle the distance very well.

I just posted this on another thread, that there is a saying that I personally have been thinking a lot about lately - hurt people, hurt people.  

He was hurting (for whatever reason) and in turn, he lashed out in an ugly way and hurt you. 

It can become a vicious toxic cycle. 

 

I agree with that about hurting.  The more I thought about things I did play a role for sure but he just said really mean things. I honestly don't think he meant a lot of it but I guess that's where pride is stepping in. I keep thinking what if he did and then I will look pathetic. I also have the fear of what if he ignores me or lord forbid has me blocked. I don't think he does but it's just me overthinking. I'm a HORRIBLE overthinker.

Also texting is good and bad hard to know what someone means lots of times not hearing tones etc. Unfortunately seems to be the the main way of communicating now. I do appreciate all the advice from everyone even though I have gotten lots of different things from people lol.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Alora24

[elaine567]

On 1/21/2021 at 5:26 AM, Alora24 said:

He has been under a ton of stress which he told me and on new yrs I just kept feeling something was off and told him I was taking a step back and he could reach out when he wanted to. He text me later that night and he was drinking and went off on me. He said hurtful things how I knew he was hurting and wouldn't listen, and even said he didn't want to talk to me and leave him alone.

Why did you feel you needed to step back when he was obviously having a hard time.
To him you were saying you didn't care and basically he went home, drank a bucket and told you that in no uncertain terms.
Men like loyalty and you deciding to step back in his time of need was I guess disloyal in his book.
As he told you, you knew he was hurting and you weren't listening.
Instead of trying to fix things and being a rock for him to cling on to, you decided to step back.
By not contacting him after the "fight", it no doubt just underlined what he had surmised, you didn't care. 
If you want this guy them YOU need to show him you do care about him and so you need to apologise IMO.
Giving people "space", just introduces distance and is rarely the answer unless they are half way out the door anyway and they need a push.

[Alora24]

Just now, elaine567 said:

Why did you feel you needed to step back when he was obviously having a hard time.
To him you were saying you didn't care and basically he went home, drank a bucket and told you that in no uncertain terms.
Men like loyalty and you deciding to step back in his time of need was I guess disloyal in his book.
As he told you, you knew he was hurting and you weren't listening.
Instead of trying to fix things and being a rock for him to cling on to, you decided to step back.
By not contacting him after the "fight", it no doubt just underlined what he had surmised, you didn't care. 
If you want this guy them YOU need to show him you do care about him and so you need to apologise IMO.
Giving people "space", just introduces distance and is rarely the answer unless they are half way out the door anyway and they need a push.

It may have came across like that. But he did push me away some too. His idea was to shut me out because he was stressed so I felt like I couldn't be there for him really. 

I also felt like with how he is he seems to want to be alone and not bothered but could be his defense mechanism too I guess. So to me I felt maybe like I should leave him alone until he got a little less stressed. It probably was a lot of miscommunication also. 

 

[smackie9]

Sometimes a good old email is the best course of action to getting the air cleared by writing down your thoughts so they can take their time to read it and absorb the message. Anyways, when you are ready you will be ready. It's only been a couple of weeks. Give it more time to cool off like you said.

[elaine567]

Leave me alone is something that is often said but IMO rarely meant.
The person saying it is usually looking for attention, they do not want it to be taken literally.
It is a test of your persistence and a measure of your level of care.
They really want you to say "I will not leave you alone, don't be silly, I love you too much..."

[Alora24]

2 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Leave me alone is something that is often said but IMO rarely meant.
The person saying it is usually looking for attention, they do not want it to be taken literally.
It is a test of your persistence and a measure of your level of care.
They really want you to say "I will not leave you alone, don't be silly, I love you too much..."

I honestly deep down don't think he meant that like you said. He was planning on moving home before me. But I do think I may have gave him a push to come sooner. He said he would feel better closer to me and of course wants to see me. So could be when I pulled back and told him to have a good year which I didnt say in a smartass way. He may have thought I'm moving etc and now this. 

[elaine567]

I personally would not leave this to fester on too long.
If he convinces himself you do not care, then it may quickly become unsalvageable. 
 

[poppyfields]

2 hours ago, Alora24 said:

 I guess that's where pride is stepping in. I keep thinking what if he did and then I will look pathetic. I also have the fear of what if he ignores me or lord forbid has me blocked. I don't think he does but it's just me overthinking. I'm a HORRIBLE overthinker.

Alora, this is how I feel about that, honestly and truly. 

So what if he ignores it?  So what if he thinks you're pathetic?   That should not be why you're reaching out, to get a reaction or to seek validation.  That's your ego guiding you, not your heart. 

You reach out because you care, period. Speak from your heart.  Your voice, your truth.  Nothing too long or elaborate.  Just something short to let him know you care. 

If he ignores it, so what, that's his issue.  Don't make it yours.  As long as it comes from a good sincere place, it should not matter if he ignores.  

I have double texted, triple texted!  And I never regretted even when they ignored.  I never expected a response anyway, that is not why I reached out.  

If you know or just sense someone is hurting why would you regret letting them know you care?  Even if they ignore?  

Is that your purpose for reaching out?  To receive a response and get that validation?  If so, then don't do it.  It's not coming from a good sincere place.

I dunno, I'm a bit of a weirdo on here, but I don't play those ego games.  I honestly do not need that type of validation.

I do what I want, when I want.  And when I sense someone I care about is hurting, for whatever reason, even when nothing to do with me, and I feel like reaching out, I will.

I detach from the outcome and speak from my heart.  

I'm not quite sure why doing that would make you feel bad, whether you receive a response or not.  Again, that should not be why you do it imo.

In short, you do it for you. Why?  This may sound hokey but because giving to others (especially someone you care about) and being kind feels good.  Regardless of what you get back from that person.

You WILL receive back though, in some shape or form, from the Universe, so it's all good.  

Alora, If he wants to think it's pathetic, let him. He would have to have some serious issues to feel that way, making him the pathetic one imo. 

I learned all this from my dear late dad, may he RIP.

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

38 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Alora, this is how I feel about that, honestly and truly. 

So what if he ignores it?  So what if he thinks you're pathetic?   That should not be why you're reaching out, to get a reaction or to seek validation.  That's your ego guiding you, not your heart. 

You reach out because you care, period. Speak from your heart.  Your voice, your truth.  Nothing too long or elaborate.  Just something short to let him know you care. 

If he ignores it, so what, that's his issue.  Don't make it yours.  As long as it comes from a good sincere place, it should not matter if he ignores.  

I have double texted, triple texted!  And I never regretted even when they ignored.  I never expected a response anyway, that is not why I reached out.  

If you know or just sense someone is hurting why would you regret letting them know you care?  Even if they ignore?  

Is that your purpose for reaching out?  To receive a response and get that validation?  If so, then don't do it.  It's not coming from a good sincere place.

I dunno, I'm a bit of a weirdo on here, but I don't play those ego games.  I honestly do not need that type of validation.

I do what I want, when I want.  And when I sense someone I care about is hurting, for whatever reason, even when nothing to do with me, and I feel like reaching out, I will.

I detach from the outcome and speak from my heart.  

I'm not quite sure why doing that would make you feel bad, whether you receive a response or not.  Again, that should not be why you do it imo.

In short, you do it for you. Why?  This may sound hokey but because giving to others (especially someone you care about) and being kind feels good.  Regardless of what you get back from that person.

You WILL receive back though, in some shape or form, from the Universe, so it's all good.  

Alora, If he wants to think it's pathetic, let him. He would have to have some serious issues to feel that way, making him the pathetic one imo. 

I learned all this from my dear late dad, may he RIP.

I would like to add, if after you reach out and he respectfully asks you to no longer text or otherwise asks to be left alone, in essence shuts that door, then best to respect that and leave him be.

I've only done it when the door was left open. Some men have appreciated it, even wanted to start dating me again!   Only once did I get ignored.

Didn't matter either way, it felt good doing it.

I have also had ex's reach out to me when they knew I was experiencing something painful or hurting.   And I always appreciated it.

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by poppyfields

[Alora24]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

I would like to add, if after you reach out and he respectfully asks you to no longer text or otherwise asks to be left alone, in essence shuts that door, then best to respect that and leave him be.

I've only done it when the door was left open. Some men have appreciated it, even wanted to start dating me again!   Only once did I get ignored.

Didn't matter either way, it felt good doing it.

I have also had ex's reach out to me when they knew I was experiencing something painful or hurting.   And I always appreciated it.

 

You are right guess it is my ego and knowing he is stubborn makes me wonder if he would ignore. But like you said he would know I care and can do what he wants with it. I feel I decide to do something then another friend tells me I shouldn't then makes me second guess. Not that it has anything to do with them. I don't feel like I even know how to start with what to say. Me and my overthinking brain. 

One of the main things he got stressed over is his 24yr old son moving back in which was another reason I thought I would back off and give him some time with all of that. 

[Alora24]

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I personally would not leave this to fester on too long.
If he convinces himself you do not care, then it may quickly become unsalvageable. 
 

That is where my overthinking and stubbornness comes in myself. I'm sitting here thinking the same thing. I keep telling myself he must not care, everything he said was a lie, and the list goes on.

Honestly my brain never shuts down 

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, Alora24 said:

You are right guess it is my ego and knowing he is stubborn makes me wonder if he would ignore. But like you said he would know I care and can do what he wants with it. I feel I decide to do something then another friend tells me I shouldn't then makes me second guess. Not that it has anything to do with them. I don't feel like I even know how to start with what to say. Me and my overthinking brain. 

One of the main things he got stressed over is his 24yr old son moving back in which was another reason I thought I would back off and give him some time with all of that. 

Asking well-intentioned friends can really mess you up sometimes imo.  I rarely did, I did what I wanted, what I felt was best, for me. 

When I first started interacting on line with my soon to be ex of three years, he shared something quite deep and painful with me that hurt him pretty badly. He did not contact me for almost a week after that.  

All my friends AND posters on another forum I was a member of advised to not reach out, to move on, he was the typical on-line flake who probably met someone else and ghosted. 

I don't know why, but I felt otherwise; my gut said he had shared something deep and painful and was maybe feeling embarrassed or vulnerable, so I reached out with something light and a familiar meme.

He responded literally within 10 minutes and we made a date to meet two nights later.  And were together just shy of 3 years (it would be 3 years in March), got engaged. 

My point is he needed me to reach out, so show I didn't judge him for what he shared with me and that I cared.  

Your situation is different as he lashed out drunk and said some very hurtful things to you, pushed you out, so it's different, I understand that.  

It's such a tough decision because we don't know what transpired during the past 5 months, the level of emotional intimacy you had with each other.  Only you know.

I advised to reach out but I was projecting based on what I might do.  But then again, I have never had a man I loved angrily lash out saying such hurtful nasty things, that I cause chaos in his life, and to leave him alone.

It would be difficult to look beyond that, enough to reach out showing you care. Even if you know (or suspect) it came from a place of pain and hurt. 

It's not even so much about ego, but having proper boundaries.  I get that.

Maybe think on it awhile, perhaps he will reach out first, hopefully given some space, he will. 

Or if he doesn't, a week or two may give you more clarity.  

Best of luck whatever you decide!  Keep us posted.  I hope it all works out the way you want. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by poppyfields

[Calmandfocused]

I think you should do yourself a favour and consider this relationship over. 
 

Even if this hadn’t of happened, would the relationship really have gone anywhere? I don’t think so. 
 

You’re hanging on to a flimsy thread that is already broken. 
 

He’s obviously got no intention of fixing things. If he felt guilty or sorry he would have tried to fix it by now. He hasn’t done that. 
 

My sense is that he’s simply let this go and is getting on with his life. You should do the same IMO. 

[Calmandfocused]

5 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Asking well-intentioned friends can really mess you up sometimes imo.  I rarely did, I did what I wanted, what I felt was best, for me. 

When I first started interacting on line with my soon to be ex of three years, he shared something quite deep and painful with me that hurt him pretty badly. He did not contact me for almost a week after that.  

All my friends AND posters on another forum I was a member of advised to not reach out, to move on, he was the typical on-line flake who probably met someone else and ghosted. 

I don't know why, but I felt otherwise; my gut said he had shared something deep and painful and was maybe feeling embarrassed or vulnerable, so I reached out with something light and a familiar meme.

He responded literally within 10 minutes and we made a date to meet two nights later.  And were together just shy of 3 years (it would be 3 years in March), got engaged. 

My point is he needed me to reach out, so show I didn't judge him for what he shared with me and that I cared.  

Your situation is different as he lashed out drunk and said some very hurtful things to you, pushed you out, so it's different, I understand that.  

It's such a tough decision because we don't know what transpired during the past 5 months, the level of emotional intimacy you had with each other.  Only you know.

I advised to reach out but I was projecting based on what I might do.  But then again, I have never had a man I loved angrily lash out saying such hurtful nasty things, that I cause chaos in his life, and to leave him alone.

It would be difficult to look beyond that, enough to reach out showing you care. Even if you know (or suspect) it came from a place of pain and hurt. 

It's not even so much about ego, but having proper boundaries.  I get that.

Maybe think on it awhile, perhaps he will reach out first, hopefully given some space, he will. 

Or if he doesn't, a week or two may give you more clarity.  

Best of luck whatever you decide!  Keep us posted.  I hope it all works out the way you want. 

Wait! What??

You and your fiancé have split up???

when did that happen and why? 

[Miss Spider]

16 hours ago, Alora24 said:

It really wasn't much more than what I have told. I was surprised he wrote me later that night after I said I was stepping back. Now looking back maybe he was just trying to talk he just kind of text something joking around which he seems to do when he doesn't know what to say.

He did say a few things to try and make me feel guilty. I won't lie some of our convos were sexual at times and he told me I was to busy talking about sex it was all I cared about and I missed the true meaning of him saying he was hurting etc. Which is completely not true he was trying to put blame on me I guess. I did say right before he blew up I can't stand you sometimes but I was joking and I talk like this sometimes jokingly and he knows that. Of course it was text and he can't know for sure my tone but any other time he would know I was but blew up after that. 

I guess some of this was my fault but he reacted bad. My friend said never talk to him again and I did nothing wrong. I think I completely over reacted about certain things and some was my fault. But when someone is writing at times so attentive and loving like we talked all Christmas eve and Christmas night right before this then goes days and it seems different well to me even though he thinks nothing I don't deal with well. 

I see you making a ton of excuses for him. Like people often do for people that they are romantically into. People will overlook the most blatant red flags. I am sorry but once again shocked at what some are suggesting. You apologize to him? For what exactly? What, if anything he should have apologized to you. Things like the bolded are things I see here so often. A person will analyze every little thing that they said that may have caused the person to get blow up or lose interest or whatever. When really, anybody that makes you feel like you need to do that much eggshell walking and reading between the lines otherwise you face their wrath or they lose interest, should just be dismissed. Making excuses for this kind of behavior will catch up with you anyway. You may be able to drag it out for a year, two years, five, fifteen, and force your way through a relationship with someone who will never be good for you, but it doesn’t make it a good thing. There might be someone they are good for, but it’s not you. Just no. Leave this ex in the past where he belongs 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, Alora24 said:

. I keep telling myself he must not care, everything he said was a lie, and the list goes on.

That's your common sense talking to you.

[d0nnivain]

20 hours ago, Alora24 said:

I probably have asked to many opinions I have friends saying reach out some saying never speak to him again. 

Forget all of them & all of us.  What do you want to do? 

 

15 hours ago, Alora24 said:

It may have came across like that. But he did push me away some too. His idea was to shut me out because he was stressed so I felt like I couldn't be there for him really. 

I also felt like with how he is he seems to want to be alone and not bothered but could be his defense mechanism too I guess. So to me I felt maybe like I should leave him alone until he got a little less stressed. It probably was a lot of miscommunication also. 

It was a bit of a s*** test.  He pushed to see if you would stick by him.  Every time you took a step back to give him some space to deal with his stress, his son moving in, whatever, he took your space as proof that you don't care. 

 

I'm not saying you need to apologize but since you know he's stubborn & you have now been told that you backing off makes things worse, if you want to salvage this you are going to have to be the one who opens the door.  

IMO if you let him know you are still here & you keep things light until he moves back, you may have a chance to build something once he's back but for now, touching base will be about all there is 

[FMW]

It's clearly really bothering you and you don't want to just walk away from this, so don't.  Just reach out and ask how he's doing.  you don't have to apologize, just check in and take the temperature of the situation and go from there.  Whether you understand it or not, take him at his word that he was hurt by your actions.  Sometimes we don't hear what others are telling us, sometimes nonverbally, because we're too caught up in our own insecurities and egos.    

If he is rude or unwelcoming to your new contact, then you'll know to just leave him alone.   

[poppyfields]

48 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Forget all of them & all of us.  What do you want to do? 

It was a bit of a s*** test.  He pushed to see if you would stick by him.  

I agree to stop asking for opinions and do what YOU want.    You are the only one who knows him and your dynamic over the past 5 months.  It's what I always did, and have no regrets. 

Re the sh*t test, that may be true BUT, Alora is this the type of man you want?  A man who sh*t tests by lashing out drunk in a vicious hurtful way every time he's hurt and needs reassurance? 

Like I said earlier, it shouldn't matter what you said or did, or didn't say or do, a mature grown up man with his shyt together does NOT behave that way.  

With shyt tests, drunkenly lashing out, telling you that you cause chaos in his life and to leave him alone?

Last night I posted about my soon to be ex (when he stops stonewalling me) shyt testing me early in our relationship and I have basically been dealing with that crap ever since. 

I know I've been back and forth about this, but I am in a better more coherent place today, and I advise you to seriously think about that before you do anything. 

I guarantee you, you do not want a man who shyt tests for reassurance (manipulates), or stonewalls, that is completely dysfunctional and will emotionally exhaust you.

Calm, there is a thread in the general section from 5 days ago, I need to update but ex is stonewalling me right now, I don't want to hijack but will update thread soon.  

Good luck Alora with whatever you choose to do. 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by poppyfields