Argument and not speaking

[Alora24]

Got into an argument with someone I have been talking to long distance for about 5 months. He is an ex from about 15yrs ago who reached out to me. We have always had strong feelings and they came flooding back.He has even told me he loved me already several times but I think it's just feelings that never fully left even after all these yrs.He is planning on moving back home this summer. All of his family lives where I do.

He has been under a ton of stress which he told me and on new yrs I just kept feeling something was off and told him I was taking a step back and he could reach out when he wanted to. He text me later that night and he was drinking and went off on me. He said hurtful things how I knew he was hurting and wouldn't listen, and even said he didn't want to talk to me and leave him alone. He tried to say things to make me feel guilty and like I didn't listen to how he felt. I don't believe he meant it emotions were running high and probably felt bad but I deserve an apology and haven't gotten one and may not.

I feel like being where you can't see each other in person makes this much harder and easier to let go. But now it's been 20 days no contact. I refuse to reach out and he obviously does too when he should be apologizing. He is very stubborn, do I let it go and just keep no contact? It's killing me I miss him and I'm miserable. But I can't let him think talking hateful to me like he did is ok.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Alora24
Added something

[littleblackheart]

Hi @Alora24

Talking badly to you isn't ok, yes he should apologise.

It would be interesting to know why he thinks you're not listening to him? 

That said, not seeing each other in person is difficult, especially when strong feelings are involved. I read this as you missing each other a lot, and him not handling time away from you very well.

The summer is a short few months away and most (sensible) people are stuck at home waiting to be vaccinated at the moment so there isn't much you can do.

20 days nc when you can't see each other is counter-productive at this point. If you care about him, show him.

I wouldn't want to let go of someone I had such a strong comnection as the one you describe.

I think you need to find a way to make your connection light-hearted and fun, more flirty and stress-free, until you get to see each other in person.

Edited January 21, 2021 by littleblackheart
New idea

[Alora24]

26 minutes ago, littleblackheart said:

Hi @Alora24

Talking badly to you isn't ok, yes he should apologise.

It would be interesting to know why he thinks you're not listening to him? 

That said, not seeing each other in person is difficult, especially when strong feelings are involved. I read this as you missing each other a lot, and him not handling time away from you very well.

The summer is a short few months away and most (sensible) people are stuck at home waiting to be vaccinated at the moment so there isn't much you can do.

20 days nc when you can't see each other is counter-productive at this point. If you care about him, show him.

I wouldn't want to let go of someone I had such a strong comnection as the one you describe.

I think you need to find a way to make your connection light-hearted and fun, more flirty and stress-free, until you get to see each other in person.

He is totally opposite as me and if I'm interested I want to talk to the person everyday and maybe to much.

He is more kind of quiet and just not a huge talker. We could go days without talking and I freak out and he is sitting there thinking nothing. So I think several times I over reacted and probably came across as clingy even which isn't my intention. 

I never show him I don't care and not sure why he said that. Maybe he got upset that I said I was going to back off. But in the argument he turned around and said I never knew when to back off when he was having a hard time. I can tell when he is stressed he pulls back some so then I overthink like crazy. Maybe he did need a break.But yes I obviously don't do well with long distance and know if he was here we would have made up already or not arguing at all. But 3000 miles away is a lot.

We have always had a big connection and I ended up dating my exhusband right after so we never talked all these yrs. It seems to make emotions run high sometimes though too. I just get really sad I can't see hi

Edited January 21, 2021 by Alora24

[littleblackheart]

13 minutes ago, Alora24 said:

I just get really sad I can't see hi

I hear you. I think you should say hi anyway .

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Alora24 said:

  I refuse to reach out 

As you should. Unfortunately you have realized an abusive ugly side of him.

Hopefully it's a stark reminder that romanticized old flames and LDRs can trick our minds into feeling what we need to feel, rather than what's really there.

Think of this several month encounter as misplaced projection of needs and wants.

Sorry this happened, but better you see the whole of him now rather than after more investment.

Don't wait for an apology. Continuing with someone like this and accepting any apology sets you up as his lastest whipping post..

Close the chapter. Cut your losses. Delete and block him from all your social media and messaging apps.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Wiseman2

[Alora24]

24 minutes ago, littleblackheart said:

I hear you. I think you should say hi anyway .

Meant to say him lol

[littleblackheart]

14 minutes ago, Alora24 said:

Meant to say him lol

(sorry!).

Advice still stands, though. Say hi to him and see if you can sort it out one way or the other. If you can't, part ways amicably. Leaving a situation unresolved isn't healthy, whoever you are talking to.

The drink-calling, while not totally abusive, is concerning, truthfully. I'd address it directly with him, if nothing else.

LDRs are not for the faint hearted, that's for sure.

Edited January 21, 2021 by littleblackheart
Added a sentence

[smackie9]

It was just a matter of misinterpretation. You felt something off and your action was to back off. To him that looked like he was being diss'd. That he invested 5 months of pouring his heart out to you and this is what he gets.

You saw it as him pulling away, when it was actually him crying for support. Guys can be the worst at communicating when they are at their most vulnerable. He lashed out, because he felt abandoned. You felt insulted, and pushed back. Now it's the Mexican stand off....who's gonna make the next move.

I say, contact him, to clear the air. Say you pulled back because you thought something was off, and that he needed space...it was quite innocent. BUT his reaction towards you was so upsetting, and you didn't deserve to be talked to in that way. Explain to him that with some thought, it seems as though you both had your wires crossed and assumed the worst of each other......then you can go onto make peace of it by saying you miss him and want to talk this out, etc or whatever you choose.

Edited January 21, 2021 by smackie9

[kendahke]

10 hours ago, Alora24 said:

Got into an argument with someone I have been talking to long distance for about 5 months. He is an ex from about 15yrs ago

15 years is a long time to get used to the idea of not talking to you anymore... hence it was easy for him to fall back into this.

Here's the question: do you really want to deal with someone who drinks and then causes problems in your relationship? Life's too short for that BS.  You down for being his enabler/apologist?

[amygirl908]

If this is a one off and he's never done this before I think you should reach out to him and try to hash things out. If nothing else it could help you get some closure.

Everyone makes mistakes I've certainly made my fair share of drunken mishaps, but the apology is key and the fact that he hasn't reached out to apologize yet... That could definitely be a bad sign. Maybe he's stubborn but that's not an excuse. I'm stubborn, but if I did someone (anyone) wrong I would apologize no questions asked.  Even if I thought my reaction was justified or if I was hurting or whatever the excuse is I always apologize.

If it were me I might reach out and say something like "I'm ready to talk about our last conversation whenever you are" and take it from there. Discuss how you both were feeling and try to get some understanding. Don't pull that apology out of him though if he doesn't offer it freely I'd move on. He's already shown us how "super" he is at handling conflict and if you open the door and he doesn't want to say he was a dummy run the other way.

[poppyfields]

First off to smackie, I was blown away by your post.  Really good insight, I am not the OP but learned something, thank you. 

To the OP, he might be feeling shame (ashamed) for how he reacted (lashing out while drunk); as such I would not expect him to reach out apologizing. 

He might want to, but feeling shamed (by his own actions) it would be difficult I would imagine.  

IF you want this to work (think about that because this doesn't sound like a healthy dynamic combined with the distance), it will have to be you.  

I think you should call though, not text. Let him hear the sincerity of your words in your voice. 

Good luck and let us know what happens.  

Edited January 21, 2021 by poppyfields

[Alora24]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

First off to smackie, I was blown away by your post.  Really good insight, I am not the OP but learned something, thank you. 

To the OP, he might be feeling shame (ashamed) for how he reacted (lashing out while drunk); as such I would not expect him to reach out apologizing. 

He might want to, but feeling shamed (by his own actions) it would be difficult I would imagine.  

IF you want this to work (think about that because this doesn't sound like a healthy dynamic combined with the distance), it will have to be you.  

I think you should call though, not text. Let him hear the sincerity of your words in your voice. 

Good luck and let us know what happens.  

My guess this is one of the reasons is he doesn't even know what to say he's ashamed and embarrassed by it. I really think it wasn't even about me and he was upset about something else and yes took it out on me. His adult son moved back home, money issues, among other things has been his cause of stress.

The first time I wrote him about backing off was new yrs eve night while drunk which I shouldn't have. He did not write and say Happy New Yr and it hurt my feelings. Then I wrote him back explaining sober the next day. It was probably the second time I drank all yr so no drinking problem or anything and wish I would have been quiet. I even said maybe our paths will cross again one day and that I really hoped he had a great year. His response was  something happened with verizon his payment didn't go thru he had no service, hope you have a great year too. I realize saying hope you have a great year is like me saying we weren't going to talk anymore. I do not believe that about the phone. Then later is when we got in to the fight. So I definitely overreacted. I'm to blame too but I just didn't say hurtful things like he did.

He said things to not make me want to contact him though. He even told me I cause chaos in his life. So made me think maybe with everything else going on throwing me in there was to much.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Alora24

[poppyfields]

32 minutes ago, Alora24 said:

He said things to not make me want to contact him though. He even told me I cause chaos in his life. 

You also posted this in your original post:

>>He said hurtful things how I knew he was hurting and wouldn't listen, and even said he didn't want to talk to me and leave him alone.

Let it go Alora, this doesn't sound positive at all.  As I said, your dynamic sounds unhealthy, and with the distance, nothing good here, I am sorry.

Try to let the recent exchange over New Year's go and cherish the memories of the good times you spent together.

That's what I would do.

I only suggested calling IF you wanted to work it out, but given the hurtful things he has said to you, ask yourself why you would even want to work it out? 

I understand men get vulnerable like smackie9 said, but that does not give them license to drunkenly lash out the way he did and push you away.

Anyway, I know you will do what you feel is best for you, just think it through.  Right now I think you're reacting from emotion, wait till emotions cool down, then make your decision.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

 

 

[Alora24]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

You also posted this in your original post:

>>He said hurtful things how I knew he was hurting and wouldn't listen, and even said he didn't want to talk to me and leave him alone.

Let it go Alora, this doesn't sound positive at all.  As I said, your dynamic sounds unhealthy, and with the distance, nothing good here, I am sorry.

Try to let the recent exchange over New Year's go and cherish the memories of the good times you spent together.

That's what I would do.

I only suggested calling IF you wanted to work it out, but given the hurtful things he has said to you, ask yourself why you would even want to work it out? 

I understand men get vulnerable like smackie9 said, but that does not give them license to drunkenly lash out the way he did and push you away.

Anyway, I know you will do what you feel is best for you, just think it through.  Right now I think you're reacting from emotion, wait till emotions cool down, then make your decision.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

 

 

I agree I was surprised because he has been nothing but sweet to me ever. So that has made it even more upsetting. I think he went by what I said and then whatever else is going on with him that doesn't have to do with me. I do feel like he said whatever he could to hurt me. I also know he probably did regret it but I can't deal with that. 

Emotions is why I haven't reached out too. I'm more than likely not going to. He may but I don't think it will be anytime soon. I would like to talk about things but after I'm cooled off. The long distance doesn't work for me anyway but the idea of him and his son moving home made it more doable. All of their families are here so it wasn't a move for me it was mentioned first time we talked. So don't think it's empty promises he made to me.

[Alora24]

Just now, Alora24 said:

I agree I was surprised because he has been nothing but sweet to me ever. So that has made it even more upsetting. I think he went by what I said and then whatever else is going on with him that doesn't have to do with me. I do feel like he said whatever he could to hurt me. I also know he probably did regret it but I can't deal with that. 

Emotions is why I haven't reached out too. I'm more than likely not going to. He may but I don't think it will be anytime soon. I would like to talk about things but after I'm cooled off if anything for closure. The long distance doesn't work for me anyway but the idea of him and his son moving home made it more doable. All of their families are here so it wasn't a move for me it was mentioned first time we talked. So don't think it's empty promises he made to me.

 

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, Alora24 said:

I agree I was surprised because he has been nothing but sweet to me ever. So that has made it even more upsetting. I think he went by what I said and then whatever else is going on with him that doesn't have to do with me. I do feel like he said whatever he could to hurt me.

He was drunk.  He has issues.  Whether it's something you did, or didn't do, it doesn't matter.  A mature grown up man with his shyt together doesn't behave that way.

The End.

You WILL move past this eventually, I promise you, probably sooner than you think.

[Saracena]

On 1/21/2021 at 3:52 PM, smackie9 said:

It was just a matter of misinterpretation. You felt something off and your action was to back off. To him that looked like he was being diss'd. That he invested 5 months of pouring his heart out to you and this is what he gets.

You saw it as him pulling away, when it was actually him crying for support. Guys can be the worst at communicating when they are at their most vulnerable. He lashed out, because he felt abandoned. You felt insulted, and pushed back. Now it's the Mexican stand off....who's gonna make the next move.

I say, contact him, to clear the air. Say you pulled back because you thought something was off, and that he needed space...it was quite innocent. BUT his reaction towards you was so upsetting, and you didn't deserve to be talked to in that way. Explain to him that with some thought, it seems as though you both had your wires crossed and assumed the worst of each other......then you can go onto make peace of it by saying you miss him and want to talk this out, etc or whatever you choose.

This 100%.  My thoughts exactly.

[trident_2020]

On 1/21/2021 at 10:52 AM, smackie9 said:

He lashed out, because he felt abandoned. You felt insulted, and pushed back. Now it's the Mexican stand off....who's gonna make the next move.

You're probably not wrong but the things he said and how he said them- it's downright abusive.

Not something she needs to be dealing with regardless of how hurt the poor guy might be.

 

[d0nnivain]

I agree with @smackie9.  This whole mess was born of fear on both sides & now you are making it a power play.

That combo added to it didn't work 15 years ago & the 3,000 miles that separate you tell me all this drama isn't worth the effort.  If neither of you can find it in yourselves to communicate properly -- discussion your feelings & fears calmly while sober (most of your miscommunications occurred while somebody had been drinking) -- and both of you are too stubborn to make the 1st move to open the door to reconciliation -- there is zero point in continuing this. 

If you want to fix it, send an olive branch so he knows you would be open to hearing his apology.  If you can't do that, just walk away.  Before you open the door though think about whether you really want to even try with somebody who has such poor communication. 

Edited January 23, 2021 by d0nnivain

[poppyfields]

On 1/20/2021 at 10:16 PM, Alora24 said:

He is totally opposite as me and if I'm interested I want to talk to the person everyday and maybe to much.

He is more kind of quiet and just not a huge talker. We could go days without talking and I freak out and he is sitting there thinking nothing. So I think several times I over reacted and probably came across as clingy even which isn't my intention. 

I can tell when he is stressed he pulls back some so then I overthink like crazy. Maybe he did need a break.  But yes I obviously don't do well with long distance

Given what's posted^^, I have a somewhat different take.  I don't think he felt dissed at all.

The man needed some space and you continued to push his boundaries. 

Freaking out, overly-clingy, needing to talk every day, several times a day, etc etc, you pushed him to his limits and he broke.

Got angry and lashed out, said some cruel things in anger while drunk.  My sense is he felt suffocated and boxed in by your clinginess, anxieties and insecurities.

I'm not justifying his behavior, it was wrong. Just explaining what I think happened.

Which also explains why he thinks you never understood his feelings.  He needed space but you kept pushing. Pushing his boundaries, disrespecting his boundaries. 

So he did not call wishing you a HNY and once again you freaked out.  Lashed out at him, while drunk.  More pushing his boundaries, he had enough and lashed out right back, stronger, harder.  He wants to be left alone.

Leave the man be.  Do not text, do not call.  You are not compatible, and your dynamic is toxic. 

Not to mention, it's been 15 years, people change.  We are not the same people as 15 years ago. 

The distance you might have been able to work through, but given how incompatible your natures are - him needing space, you needing constant reassurance and togetherness - not gonna work.

Just my take after thinking about it a bit more and reading what's quoted above.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by poppyfields

[Alora24]

11 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

I agree with @smackie9.  This whole mess was born of fear on both sides & now you are making it a power play.

That combo added to it didn't work 15 years ago & the 3,000 miles that separate you tell me all this drama isn't worth the effort.  If neither of you can find it in yourselves to communicate properly -- discussion your feelings & fears calmly while sober (most of your miscommunications occurred while somebody had been drinking) -- and both of you are too stubborn to make the 1st move to open the door to reconciliation -- there is zero point in continuing this. 

If you want to fix it, send an olive branch so he knows you would be open to hearing his apology.  If you can't do that, just walk away.  Before you open the door though think about whether you really want to even try with somebody who has such poor communication. 

Yes I have done a lot of thinking. Still we have not spoken. Our past was when we were both really young and it wasn't overly serious and we definitely were not ready to be together forever or anything.

We are both being stubborn and I'm sure he thinks I would have text by now. So he probably knows I'm upset. I'm not sure what to do as of now.

[Alora24]

6 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Given what's posted^^, I have a somewhat different take.  I don't think he felt dissed at all.

The man needed some space and you continued to push his boundaries. 

Freaking out, overly-clingy, needing to talk every day, several times a day, etc etc, you pushed him to his limits and he broke.

Got angry and lashed out, said some cruel things in anger while drunk.  My sense is he felt suffocated and boxed in by your clinginess, anxieties and insecurities.

I'm not justifying his behavior, it was wrong. Just explaining what I think happened.

Which also explains why he thinks you never understood his feelings.  He needed space but you kept pushing. Pushing his boundaries, disrespecting his boundaries. 

So he did not call wishing you a HNY and once again you freaked out.  Lashed out at him, while drunk.  More pushing his boundaries, he had enough and lashed out right back, stronger, harder.  He wants to be left alone.

Leave the man be.  Do not text, do not call.  You are not compatible, and your dynamic is toxic. 

Not to mention, it's been 15 years, people change.  We are not the same people as 15 years ago. 

The distance you might have been able to work through, but given how incompatible your natures are - him needing space, you needing constant reassurance and togetherness - not gonna work.

Just my take after thinking about it a bit more and reading what's quoted above.

 

 

I agree with you on lots of this. Yes I wanted to talk a lot. But I didn't talk to him everyday at all. I would go 4 day sometimes more without us talking. I didn't always text him first either.

Just find it odd that he would say things he did along with I love you numerous times. That is what bothers me too and I doubt any of it was true. Even though we had these feelings before so I do care about him and mean it. 

[poppyfields]

I'm curious, you said he reached out to you after 15 years?  How did he find you, social media, FB?

What does one say after that long?  

I cannot help but feel that a lot of what you are both feeling is based on the past.  You have not seen each other in person in 15 years, have you exchanged recent pictures or video-chatted?  

So this is essentially a cyber relationship until you see and spend time together in person, would you not agree? 

And as cyber relationships go, it seems quite intense, with ILY's and lots of drama.

And now after 5 months, he has told you that you cause chaos in his life, that you don't understand his hurt, and to leave him alone, along with the other cutting remarks he said that you haven't shared here but we can only imagine. 

I am not sure how you can unring that bell, damage done.  Or why you would want to?

I do think you shouid talk though, to clear the air and move forward, whether separately or together. 

And you shouid both apologize to each other as you both played a role. 

Whether you can unring the bell of damage already done has left to be seen, but IF you truly love this man, and you feel he loves you, who he is in the present and not based on the past, then pick up the phone and call.

Apologize for your role in the argument and tell him that no matter what you did or didn't do, said or didn't say, you did not deserve to be spoken to that way.  And hope he apologizes.  

Start with that, and then allow it to play out naturally, do not push. 

The longer NC goes on, the harder it will be.

Good luck and let us know what happens!

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by poppyfields

[Alora24]

35 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I'm curious, you said he reached out to you after 15 years?  How did he find you, social media, FB?

What does one say after that long?  

I cannot help but feel that a lot of what you are both feeling is based on the past.  You have not seen each other in person in 15 years, have you exchanged recent pictures or video-chatted?  

So this is essentially a cyber relationship until you see and spend time together in person, would you not agree? 

And as cyber relationships go, it seems quite intense, with ILY's and lots of drama.

And now after 5 months, he has told you that you cause chaos in his life, that you don't understand his hurt, and to leave him alone, along with the other cutting remarks he said that you haven't shared here but we can only imagine. 

I am not sure how you can unring that bell, damage done.  Or why you would want to?

I do think you shouid talk though, to clear the air and move forward, whether separately or together. 

And you shouid both apologize to each other as you both played a role. 

Whether you can unring the bell of damage already done has left to be seen, but IF you truly love this man, and you feel he loves you, who he is in the present and not based on the past, then pick up the phone and call.

Apologize for your role in the argument and tell him that no matter what you did or didn't do, said or didn't say, you did not deserve to be spoken to that way.  And hope he apologizes.  

Start with that, and then allow it to play out naturally, do not push. 

The longer NC goes on, the harder it will be.

Good luck and let us know what happens!

 

He did reach out on social media. He started with a flirty text "You're still perfect" then it just went from there. How's life talking about our kids, just catching up. We had a lot of mutual friends and hung out in same circles. I met him through my best friend who has known him a really long time. She seems to think he probably is embarrassed.  But so through the grape vine of course I have heard things about him through the yrs. Yes we have sent pics and done video chats. You are right some probably is the past. The feelings seemed to come back because of it. Just like when we talked I loved to hear him laugh or things that took me back. So yes you definitely could be right. 

I'm embarrassed right now to even talk to him, and I keep feeling like maybe he didn't care and meant what he said. I may just decide to let it go. I screwed up too. I think he got me at a vulnerable, weak time as I was having some issues myself and I made myself look pathetic. 

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately he's not really who you think he is. The shared past is obscuring things. 

In reality, you don't know each other, just what you remember and whatever recent communication.

Step way back from this.  Have you googled  him, his address, etc? Seems like you don't know what you are dealing with, but you may think you do because of commonality.