He takes ages to respond to a text message!

[poppyfields]

>>Try mirroring his interest, if he backs off you back.

I do not believe in mirroring anymore, it's a poor game and has the potential to cause the other person confusion and to feel manipulated.

I mean let's say a man is genuinely busy, working, in a meeting, out with friends and doesn't reply for a few hours or even a day.

Translation (in an anxious woman's mind) :  He's backing off.

So he finally gets a chance to reply when he has time to chat and connect.

If the other person were to mirror, they intentionally won't reply for a few hours or a day, thus risking the other person once again not being available to chat.  So you miss the chance to chat and connect because you chose to play the "mirroring" game.

I'm not saying to jump every time a man texts, but damn if you're available to chat when he does text, why the heck would you want to wait a few hours to reply?  Because you want to mirror him?

What a game.  

I get it though, I was taught this too, mirror his actions. There are tons of books and articles advocating that. 

What a load of crap, caused me more harm than good 95% of the time. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by poppyfields

[dramafreezone]

19 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I do not believe in mirroring anymore, it's a poor game and has the potential to cause the other person confusion and to feel manipulated.

I mean let's say a man (or woman) is genuinely busy, working, in a meeting, out with friends and doesn't reply for a few hours. .

So they finally get a chance to reply when they have time to chat and connect.

If the other person were to mirror, they intentionally won't reply for a few hours, thus risking the other person  once again not being available to chat.

I'm not saying to jump every time a man texts, but damn if you're available to chat when he does text, why the heck would you want to wait a few hours to reply?  Because you want to mirror him?

What a game.  

I get it though, I was taught this too, mirror his actions. There are tons of books and articles advocating that. 

What a load of crap, caused me more harm than good 95% of the time. 

I think we probably have different ideas of what mirroring is.

In your above example, the idea isn't that you're not responding to someone because they didn't respond to you.  It's that you're not responding to them because you're legitimately busy yourself, because you're dating other guys, because you have a fufilling life yourself and you can't get to a guy at the drop of a hat.

People that don't text when they actually have the time to do so are faking value.  But if I'm actually with other women, or actually busy with work or otherwise using my time productively, I'm not faking.  It has the same affect as the type of mirroring you're describing but it's not a strategy, it's my reality.

I think imbalances where one person is way more into the other person arise because of a scarcity mindset, because that person doesn't have enough going on in their own lives, or both.  

Mirroring shouldn't be a strategy, it should be something that comes naturally because you value your own time, your own worth.  If I meet a woman and I'm highly interested in her but she is lukewarm or just not where I am, you're damn right I'm going to back off.  I'll propose dates when we both have time, but otherwise I'm going to occupy my time with my work and other women, and give it time.  I will fill that time that I would have devoted to her with more important things, because if she's not interested in me she's not that important to me.  She'll either come back around or she won't.  Two things I'm not going to do is keep pursing harder or just cut her off completely.  Neither of those accomplish anything. 

I reward people with my time when I feel they've earned it.  I'm not going to just give it away for free because I think they're really hot.

Edited January 24, 2021 by dramafreezone

[poppyfields]

20 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

In your above example, the idea isn't that you're not responding to someone because they didn't respond to you.  It's that you're not responding to them because you're legitimately busy yourself, because you're dating other guys, because you have a fufilling life yourself and you can't get to a guy at the drop of a hat.

I think imbalances where one person is way more into the other person arise because of a scarcity mindset, because that person doesn't have enough going on in their own lives, or both.  

Mirroring shouldn't be a strategy, it should be something that comes naturally because you value your own time, your own worth and you value that other person's time.  If I meet a woman and I'm highly interested in her but she is lukewarm or just not where I am, you're damn right I'm going to back off.  I'll propose dates when we both have time, but otherwise I'm going to occupy my time with my work and other women, and give it time.  She'll either come back around or she won't.  Two things I'm not going to do is keep pursing harder or just cut her off completely.  Neither of those accomplish anything.

I agree, we should all have busy lives and not be anxiously waiting for a response, which it appears is what GND was doing.  Which imo is a huge part of why this situation became so weird. 

You are right, mirroring should not be a "strategy" in which case, it should not be called mirroring.

Because mirroring suggests intentionally behaving in ways that match your partner's efforts.

Like in my scenario, a woman is available to chat, in fact, she has been anxiously waiting for his reply, but because she wants to mirror him, when he does reply,  she intentionally waits to respond even though she is not busy and IS available to talk right then. 

That's wrong imo.

If a woman is genuinely busy herself and waits, that is not mirroring imo.  She is simply busy and will respond when she gets the chance.  

Lots of times what I do when busy is send a quick text acknowledging his, but letting him know I'm doing this or that and will respond later.

Edited January 24, 2021 by poppyfields

[Watercolors]

There is a great TED Talk by Celeste Headlee called 10 ways to have a better conversation. In the TED Talk she references an article in the Atlantic Monthly magazine written by a high school teacher. The high school teacher gave his kids a communication project, b/c he wanted to teach them how to speak on a subject without using notes. He realized his high school kids lacked total "conversational competence." Because his kids never engage with their peers face to face, but screen to screen instead. Headlee gives 10 basic rules to conversational competence that anyone in any capacity -- even online dating -- can use. 

1. Don't multitask. 
2. Don't pontificate. 
3. Use open-ended questions. 
4. Go with the flow. 
5. If you don't know something, say you don't know. Don't lie. 
6. Don't equate your experience with theirs. You don't need to prove how amazing you are or how much you've suffered like they have. Just shut up. Let them express their experience and validate their experience. You don't need to invalidate their experience by overrunning them with your own. 
7. Don't repeat yourself. It's condescending and boring. 
8. Stay out of the weeds. Forget the details. Focus on what you both have in common. 
9. Listen. Buddha said, "If your mouth is open, you're not listening." 
10. Be brief. Be concise and don't ramble. 

[peach302]

14 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

There is a great TED Talk by Celeste Headlee called 10 ways to have a better conversation. In the TED Talk she references an article in the Atlantic Monthly magazine written by a high school teacher. The high school teacher gave his kids a communication project, b/c he wanted to teach them how to speak on a subject without using notes. He realized his high school kids lacked total "conversational competence." Because his kids never engage with their peers face to face, but screen to screen instead. Headlee gives 10 basic rules to conversational competence that anyone in any capacity -- even online dating -- can use. 

1. Don't multitask. 
2. Don't pontificate. 
3. Use open-ended questions. 
4. Go with the flow. 
5. If you don't know something, say you don't know. Don't lie. 
6. Don't equate your experience with theirs. You don't need to prove how amazing you are or how much you've suffered like they have. Just shut up. Let them express their experience and validate their experience. You don't need to invalidate their experience by overrunning them with your own. 
7. Don't repeat yourself. It's condescending and boring. 
8. Stay out of the weeds. Forget the details. Focus on what you both have in common. 
9. Listen. Buddha said, "If your mouth is open, you're not listening." 
10. Be brief. Be concise and don't ramble. 

Omg i love this!. 

[girlnextdoor2020]

2 hours ago, Watercolors said:

You should have heard this a**h*** instructor pontificating today. I had to turn my Zoom screen off and mute myself, before I couldn't take his arrogant ranting any longer. Headlee's TEDTalk really is great b/c she balances pathos and logos with her appeal to emotions and her use of data and evidence to prove her point that conversation is a necessary skill, and one that we have lost interest in developing in ourselves and students. What frightens me, is that the day will come when we never see each other in person anymore and are just computer screens communicating back and forth. Eeek. 

Last month I fired my personal trainer I hired the month before because of pontificating.

We had 30 minutes workout sessions where for a long time he would pontificate his opinions about how to exercise. And I would just stood there listening instead of exercising.

Edited January 25, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Watercolors]

17 minutes ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

Last month I fired my personal trainer I hired the month before because of that.

We had 30 minutes workout sessions where for a long time he would pontificate his opinions about how to exercise. And I would just stood there listening instead of exercising.

Ugh! Good for you girlnextdoor! It just proves that you can get a degree or certificate in ANYTHING, but that doesn't mean you're competent enough to teach it to someone else. 

[d0nnivain]

17 hours ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

This is looking like a mexican novel, but he sent me a message saying he had lunch, then came back home and was waiting for me to say something! He thought it would be me saying.

Ok we agreed to go for the walk tomorrow but I doubt at this point anything good can come from this, apart from my dog getting a walk.

Gee. . .what did we all tell you?  He was waiting for you while you sat around & complained that he wasn't making an effort.  Finally he did reach out & was clear about his (mis)understanding.  

Before you go on the walk tomorrow really think about what we said.  There is a new article in The Atlantic:  successful relationships require kindness & generosity.  I suspect if you start showing more of the latter you will get more of what you want from people.  But if you keep that chip on your shoulder all you will have are more problems.

Good relationships are not 50/50.  They are 100/100.  At 50 / 50 you have 1 small point of contact.  If one person slides back you are disconnected.  At 100/100 if somebody falters there is enough overlap that the other can pick up the slack for the moment. 

[girlnextdoor2020]

8 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Gee. . .what did we all tell you?  He was waiting for you while you sat around & complained that he wasn't making an effort.  Finally he did reach out & was clear about his (mis)understanding.  

Before you go on the walk tomorrow really think about what we said.  There is a new article in The Atlantic:  successful relationships require kindness & generosity.  I suspect if you start showing more of the latter you will get more of what you want from people.  But if you keep that chip on your shoulder all you will have are more problems.

Good relationships are not 50/50.  They are 100/100.  At 50 / 50 you have 1 small point of contact.  If one person slides back you are disconnected.  At 100/100 if somebody falters there is enough overlap that the other can pick up the slack for the moment. 

Thank you, you are right. My last relationship ended badly so I am scared to get hurt again and I desperately seek for red flags when meeting someone new. I am also a bit bitter at the moment and not very kind. I know this is just my guard up to protect myself as my true nature is kind and generous.

I have been waiting to meet the right guy with whom I will let my guard down, but I realise that if don't change first all guys will be wrong.

[Miss Spider]

Oh my oh my. I am sorry I don’t have the time to catch up on all 12+ pages of this... but lemme get this straight. Guy acts all distantly, forgets how to text back, cancels on a date, then comes back with a sorry excuse and you start talking again and all is well in the world? I’m sorry but when are people going to stop tolerating this trash from people when they are even the least bit interested in them? It twists my mind. And I am speaking from someone who has been talking to someone else and then that died out so I went back to another person that I was kind of ignoring/canceling on and we picked back up like nothing ever happened. And sure, my excuses were sometimes gaslighting like this person. “Oh I thought maybe you were not interested in me”... And I’m not gonna talk about how that isn’t cool of me to do, that’s another talk, but I did do it, and they are all the happier for it ? And just why? And you are going to go on this walk even when you say yourself that most likely nothing good will come of it. Because you know. I’m not saying that your friends are completely right that men will triple double and quadruple text when they are interested in you( though it’s not far off) Some interested men won’t do that, but they certainly will not act like this guy.  what. This person should’ve been left in the dust a long time ago... but of course people have to see the stuff out to its conclusion

Edited January 25, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Miss Spider]

29 minutes ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

Thank you, you are right. My last relationship ended badly so I am scared to get hurt again and I desperately seek for red flags when meeting someone new. I am also a bit bitter at the moment and not very kind. I know this is just my guard up to protect myself as my true nature is kind and generous.

I have been waiting to meet the right guy with whom I will let my guard down, but I realise that if don't change first all guys will be wrong.

Sorry. I guess I am negative Nancy checking in again... But did I miss in the 12 pages somewhere you said were bitter and not very kind to this guy?  If you were, then I retract what I said and completely understand why he may have stopped talking to you. However, from all I’ve seen, you might be making excuses for this person. I see that you got hurt and you need to take your guard down. That’s completely understandable. However, taking your guard down doesn’t mean tolerating lukewarm, half a**ed behavior from people or I think it might repeat itself. Jmo 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[girlnextdoor2020]

7 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Sorry. I guess I am negative Nancy checking in again... But did I miss in the 12 pages somewhere you said were bitter and not very kind to this guy?  If you were, then I retract what I said and completely understand why he may have stop talking to you. However, from all I’ve seen, you might be making excuses for this person. I see that you got hurt and you need to take your guard down. That’s completely understandable. However, taking your guard down doesn’t mean tolerating lukewarm, half a**ed behavior from people or I think it might repeat itself. Jmo 

I wasn't unkind to this guy or anything bad to him. I always felt he just wasn't much into me, for his own reasons.

We were supposed to go on the walk today, we were texting arranging time and place to meet, and then all of a sudden he texts saying it's raining a lot where he lives and we should leave it for another day... Listen, I live a 5 minutes drive from him and it's sunny here... 

When I told him this, he says he prefers a different day.

It's time to listen to my gut and this obvious behaviour of him and delete him. I'm seriously fed up now.

Edited January 25, 2021 by girlnextdoor2020

[d0nnivain]

42 minutes ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

Thank you, you are right. My last relationship ended badly so I am scared to get hurt again and I desperately seek for red flags when meeting someone new. I am also a bit bitter at the moment and not very kind. I know this is just my guard up to protect myself as my true nature is kind and generous.

I have been waiting to meet the right guy with whom I will let my guard down, but I realise that if don't change first all guys will be wrong.

That level of self awareness is helpful.  It will take you far.  You know your picker is overly sensitive right now.  

Obviously if you see real red flags:  abusiveness, overly sexual (you know those pictures or requests for your parts), lying etc. walk away early & quickly.  But don't be so quick to just based on the pace of texts.   Put little stock in these 1st meets.  Go in with an open mind but pay attention.  After you meet, if it still feels off, be done.  

At this point since he is now cancelling the dog walk that it was like pulling teeth to arrange, it probably is better to be done with him.  

That said in general though don't expect perfection up front & don't judge based solely on the pace of texts or even the conversation.  I can't text worth a darn but can make good conversation otherwise.  

Edited January 25, 2021 by d0nnivain

[Miss Spider]

He’s sorry af. But are you really done with him? Really? Hmm  

18 minutes ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

I wasn't unkind to this guy or anything bad to him. I always felt he just wasn't much into me, for his own reasons.

We were supposed to go on the walk today, we were texting arranging time and place to meet, and then all of a sudden he texts saying it's raining a lot where he lives and we should leave it for another day... Listen, I live a 5 minutes drive from him and it's sunny here... 

When I told him this, he says he prefers a different day.

It's time to listen to my gut and this obvious behaviour of him and delete him. I'm seriously fed up now.

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[girlnextdoor2020]

7 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

He’s sorry af. But are you really done with him? Really? Hmm  

 

I told him is not raining here so HE can come here and meet me if he wants. I'm not gonna move after him cancelling again.

[sushiandtacos]

42 minutes ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

We were supposed to go on the walk today, we were texting arranging time and place to meet, and then all of a sudden he texts saying it's raining a lot where he lives and we should leave it for another day... Listen, I live a 5 minutes drive from him and it's sunny here... 

When I told him this, he says he prefers a different day.

It's time to listen to my gut and this obvious behaviour of him and delete him. I'm seriously fed up now.

THANK YOU, NEXT!

[peach302]

3 hours ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

I wasn't unkind to this guy or anything bad to him. I always felt he just wasn't much into me, for his own reasons.

We were supposed to go on the walk today, we were texting arranging time and place to meet, and then all of a sudden he texts saying it's raining a lot where he lives and we should leave it for another day... Listen, I live a 5 minutes drive from him and it's sunny here... 

When I told him this, he says he prefers a different day.

It's time to listen to my gut and this obvious behaviour of him and delete him. I'm seriously fed up now.

Do you know much about his dating history? I think that can show a lot about a person and their emotional availability. Just one aspect to look at though.

Since hes cancelled twice...yesterday and today  i think you can say you tried.

This is what i wanted you to do to keep an open mind and see what happens. But he failed on this occasion. I dunno people can also have a lot going on in their lives etc..but he doesn't seem ready to date anyone properly.. and its unlikely he will meet your needs in any way. You will probably have to keep making exception after exception.

Oh and the fact you said its sunny where you are and he still said he prefers another day. He's completely blowing you off there.

 Best to move on. 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by peach302

[peach302]

3 hours ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

Thank you, you are right. My last relationship ended badly so I am scared to get hurt again and I desperately seek for red flags when meeting someone new. I am also a bit bitter at the moment and not very kind. I know this is just my guard up to protect myself as my true nature is kind and generous.

I have been waiting to meet the right guy with whom I will let my guard down, but I realise that if don't change first all guys will be wrong.

Perhaps you should take a break before trying to date someone  else. Not in a bad way ...so you can recharge and come back with some new  and more positive perspectives.

[girlnextdoor2020]

1 hour ago, peach302 said:

Do you know much about his dating history? I think that can show a lot about a person and their emotional availability. Just one aspect to look at though.

Since hes cancelled twice...yesterday and today  i think you can say you tried.

This is what i wanted you to do to keep an open mind and see what happens. But he failed on this occasion. I dunno people can also have a lot going on in their lives etc..but he doesn't seem ready to date anyone properly.. and its unlikely he will meet your needs in any way. You will probably have to keep making exception after exception.

Oh and the fact you said its sunny where you are and he still said he prefers another day. He's completely blowing you off there.

 Best to move on. 

 

I dunno what his problem is, but this is not normal to do.

He even said if tomorrow is raining I promise you I’ll still go to meet you! I asked him so what’s the difference between doing that today or tomorrow? And he said he’s absolutely sure tomorrow won’t rain...

Well it also didn’t rain my side today...

I’m sure tomorrow there will be another excuse and it will continue like that.

I scheduled a date with another guy for tomorrow and I’m done with him.

Edited January 25, 2021 by girlnextdoor2020

[d0nnivain]

15 minutes ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

I scheduled a date with another guy for tomorrow and I’m done with him.

Good for you but do tell him you are done so he stops contacting you.  

[peach302]

29 minutes ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

I dunno what his problem is, but this is not normal to do.

He even said if tomorrow is raining I promise you I’ll still go to meet you! I asked him so what’s the difference between doing that today or tomorrow? And he said he’s absolutely sure tomorrow won’t rain...

Well it also didn’t rain my side today...

I’m sure tomorrow there will be another excuse and it will continue like that.

I scheduled a date with another guy for tomorrow and I’m done with him.

 there's something he's not telling you there. Strange

Lol did ya! Well done then!

Tell us how it goes. 

You snooze you lose i guess for the other guy

 

 

 

[astutise]

This guy sounds identical to one I came across on OLD! Same age and the supermarket thing and then being all wishy washy. Weird. Imagine if its the same person...are you in the UK, OP?

[peach302]

4 hours ago, astutise said:

This guy sounds identical to one I came across on OLD! Same age and the supermarket thing and then being all wishy washy. Weird. Imagine if its the same person...are you in the UK, OP?

Who asks to meet someone in a supermarket lol. First I've heard that

[Noproblem]

I can't read the whole topic

but anyone who doesn't text normally is a no for me, if they can't make simple effort to text, communicate, then why should I waste my time with them!

 

 

[winny]

18 hours ago, girlnextdoor2020 said:

I wasn't unkind to this guy or anything bad to him. I always felt he just wasn't much into me, for his own reasons.

We were supposed to go on the walk today, we were texting arranging time and place to meet, and then all of a sudden he texts saying it's raining a lot where he lives and we should leave it for another day... Listen, I live a 5 minutes drive from him and it's sunny here... 

When I told him this, he says he prefers a different day.

It's time to listen to my gut and this obvious behaviour of him and delete him. I'm seriously fed up now.

I knew you won’t cancel on him...