Asking for reason why she doesn't want to see me to get closure

[Versacehottie]

7 hours ago, max3732 said:

This idea of inviting someone to get together and saying you're interested and then ignoring them almost reminds me of in the movie Office Space where they say to avoid conflict they're not going to fire Milton, but just stop paying him and move his office to the storage room and basically treat him like dirt and eventually he'll get the hint. Does anyone actually feel like they get hurt less with what she did vs. if she'd just told me she wasn't interested? That's definitely the part I'm having trouble getting my arms around.

She was one of the first women that seemed more interested in me than the other way during/after the 1st date that I was also interested in. Maybe that's common and I've just never experienced it.

She did spend 6 hours or so with me and had been texting me pictures and all kinds of info about her. It seemed like things were going well to me so I'm just at a loss.

 

From what I know of your posting history, I think this bolded is very true.  You are weighting it way heavier because you haven't experienced it, not because it means more than it does (which is very simple: not interested in taking things further).

[max3732]

7 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

Yes, it definitely could be argued that he invested too much.  Driving two hours for a first date?  The girl could on one hand think he's a great guy and very considerate, while also having the gut feeling of "if this guy was so great, why does he have to drive two hours to see me?  No women near him want to date him?"  And if no one else wants to date him why should I date him?   And then the double texting and insecure statements confirmed that gut feeling she had.

Put it like this; if you went to a car lot and you saw a car you liked and it was for $20000.  You offered the salesman $10000, expecting him to counteroffer, but instead he says "Deal."  What would you say at that point?  What the hell is wrong with this car?  You'd be suspicious because this salesman is indicating that this lowball offer is more than the car is really worth.   Similarly, (and this is mean to say) but this guy driving two hours to see her for a first date is saying that this is what he has to do to get dates.  Similar to the car lot, she's investing very little and he's giving up a lot of his own time (which is the most important thing we have) to see her right off the bat.  He's discounting himself.  Even if that's not really the case (he dates a lot of women and he just thinks she's that awesome), this is what she'll think, because even she doesn't think she's that awesome.  She hasn't really done anything to deserve that treatment.

It's a catch-22; you're highly interested in her, which every woman wants from a guy, but being too interested comes off as desperate and that you have no other choice, so you're putting all of your eggs in her basket.   No woman would ever admit to the guy that they think this way about him, but they know how men who have lots of options behave.

OP I hope you don't take any of this personally.  I'm not saying any of this as if I'm better than you.  I'm saying it because I've made pretty much every mistake you've made before, and I wish I had someone to tell me what I was doing wrong instead of doing the same thing over and over.

I really value constructive criticism and I think you are spot on. Not to use this as an excuse, but in the 2nd date with the long, tiring drive and after our great conversations/texts before hand I was feeling giddy about her going in. As we spent more time together and we shared more about each other I saw some things that could have been been red flags value and lifestyle wise, but as a person I kept feeling more and more attracted to her. Then there was a moment like in the movies and it was like I was on the outside looking in and was just completely taken with her. 

In the 1st date going in I was thinking it was just another one of those internet dates that probably wouldn't go anywhere, but at least it's good practice. That one turned on to be much more even and I wasn't acting like I was into her nearly as much.

[fred123]

shes not into u and never really was probably.

did u drive 2 hours there and back in one day? she didnt offer u to stay at hers? 

i cant even believe u drove 4 hours in one day and didnt get any action?!!

no guy would do this

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, max3732 said:

I really value constructive criticism 

I do as well, but not from someone who barely knows me and especially from someone who ghosted me.

To me it sounds like more of a quest to renegotiate, to search for something you could fix (in her eyes).

Keep in mind opinions are highly subjective. Whatever she would say may not apply in future situations.

[dramafreezone]

1 hour ago, max3732 said:

I really value constructive criticism and I think you are spot on. Not to use this as an excuse, but in the 2nd date with the long, tiring drive and after our great conversations/texts before hand I was feeling giddy about her going in. As we spent more time together and we shared more about each other I saw some things that could have been been red flags value and lifestyle wise, but as a person I kept feeling more and more attracted to her. Then there was a moment like in the movies and it was like I was on the outside looking in and was just completely taken with her. 

In the 1st date going in I was thinking it was just another one of those internet dates that probably wouldn't go anywhere, but at least it's good practice. That one turned on to be much more even and I wasn't acting like I was into her nearly as much.

You were highly attracted to her physically.  When that happens you'll ignore red flags.

I've been there dude, and you're going to be fine.   Women can can literally be like a drug if you form an attatchment too soon.  The best thing you can do right now is find a passion outside of women that you can focus on.  This can be something that could beocme your career, or is just a hobby.  This helps to kill that void that we try to fill with companionship.  Companionship is good but it should be a cherry on top of everything, not our entire focus. 

The other thing you could do is date a bunch of different women in your remaining time.  Between your passion and dating multiple women, you literally will not have time to put so much into one woman.  Unless you live in a very small village, there are more women all around you that find you attractive than you could ever possibly date, so just have to keep circulating.  Only devote your time to women who are interested.  If they're not, wish them well and move on.

[max3732]

14 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

You were highly attracted to her physically.  When that happens you'll ignore red flags.

I've been there dude, and you're going to be fine.   Women can can literally be like a drug if you form an attatchment too soon.  The best thing you can do right now is find a passion outside of women that you can focus on.  This can be something that could beocme your career, or is just a hobby.  This helps to kill that void that we try to fill with companionship.  Companionship is good but it should be a cherry on top of everything, not our entire focus. 

The other thing you could do is date a bunch of different women in your remaining time.  Between your passion and dating multiple women, you literally will not have time to put so much into one woman.  Unless you live in a very small village, there are more women all around you that find you attractive than you could ever possibly date, so just have to keep circulating.  Only devote your time to women who are interested.  If they're not, wish them well and move on.

I'm focused on my career and have several hobbies that I spend a lot of time on. I'm just constantly reminded that I'm single by everything and just about everyone. I just met someone for one of my hobbies and he was talking about his wife and kids and then asked if I have any kids. Most groups I go to people talk about their wives and I get group texts complaining about them. Even my doctor was asking why I'm not married.

Of course I'm trying my best. I am chatting with some other women online, which certainly helps. Even if I match with them most flake after 1 or 2 messages, a lot will match and then not say anything. Sometimes I come across a profile where I think on paper she's got so many things in common she's got to want to at least chat and then nothing. Fortunately I do have a few people that are messaging back that could be good prospects.

Plus there's one "just a friend" that could potentially be more, but she recently broke up with her long term boyfriend and I'm not sure if I'm thinking straight.

[dramafreezone]

1 hour ago, max3732 said:

I'm focused on my career and have several hobbies that I spend a lot of time on. I'm just constantly reminded that I'm single by everything and just about everyone. I just met someone for one of my hobbies and he was talking about his wife and kids and then asked if I have any kids. Most groups I go to people talk about their wives and I get group texts complaining about them. Even my doctor was asking why I'm not married.

Of course I'm trying my best. I am chatting with some other women online, which certainly helps. Even if I match with them most flake after 1 or 2 messages, a lot will match and then not say anything. Sometimes I come across a profile where I think on paper she's got so many things in common she's got to want to at least chat and then nothing. Fortunately I do have a few people that are messaging back that could be good prospects.

Plus there's one "just a friend" that could potentially be more, but she recently broke up with her long term boyfriend and I'm not sure if I'm thinking straight.

Boom, you just said it.  People are talking about their wives and complaining about them, and that's something you're rushing to get in your life?

The majority of those married people are not as happy as you think they are.  They boast about their marriage to everyone that will listen, their friends, on FB, IG, everywhere, to make themselves feel better.  And then two years later you see that they're getting a divorce.  I can't tell you how many times I've seen that.  Tons of photos of these couples kissing, on vacation, at brunch, everything looks like bliss.  It's not in most cases.  These people are going through the same things that every other relationship is going through, they've just gone through a ceremony and signed some papers.  Very few people have that type of blissful relatinoship that they advertise on social media.  People that are having a great relationship don't have to tell everyone about it.

If you want kids I get that, but a lot of people want to get married so that they're validated by someone else, in other words "this person loves me so I have value" or they want to marry the first woman that they get into a relationship with.  Getting married is fine but so many do it for the wrong reasons.  Either it's something they were supposed to do because they reached a certain age, or they settled for the first woman that showed them some affection. 

First, ask yourself why you feel this urge to get married.  Is it so that you feel better about yourself?  Is It because people are telling you "this is what you're supposed to do?"  These guys complaining in their group texts probably rushed into their marriages and this is what they got.

It sounds counter-intuitive, but I don't think anyone should even think about getting married until they're ok being alone.  That way you'll know that you're making the decision because this is the best person for you, as opposed of doing it out of a fear of being alone.  There's too much at stake for a man to get married to the wrong person.

Edited January 13, 2021 by dramafreezone

[max3732]

2 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

Boom, you just said it.  People are talking about their wives and complaining about them, and that's something you're rushing to get in your life?

The majority of those married people are not as happy as you think they are.  They boast about their marriage to everyone that will listen, their friends, on FB, IG, everywhere, to make themselves feel better.  And then two years later you see that they're getting a divorce.  I can't tell you how many times I've seen that.  Tons of photos of these couples kissing, on vacation, at brunch, everything looks like bliss.  It's not in most cases.  These people are going through the same things that every other relationship is going through, they've just gone through a ceremony and signed some papers.  Very few people have that type of blissful relatinoship that they advertise on social media.  People that are having a great relationship don't have to tell everyone about it.

If you want kids I get that, but a lot of people want to get married so that they're validated by someone else, in other words "this person loves me so I have value" or they want to marry the first woman that they get into a relationship with.  Getting married is fine but so many do it for the wrong reasons.  Either it's something they were supposed to do because they reached a certain age, or they settled for the first woman that showed them some affection. 

First, ask yourself why you feel this urge to get married.  Is it so that you feel better about yourself?  Is It because people are telling you "this is what you're supposed to do?"  These guys complaining in their group texts probably rushed into their marriages and this is what they got.

It sounds counter-intuitive, but I don't think anyone should even think about getting married until they're ok being alone.  That way you'll know that you're making the decision because this is the best person for you, as opposed of doing it out of a fear of being alone.  There's too much at stake for a man to get married to the wrong person.

I've felt this need to get married for many years. I'm not in my 30s anymore, which I know drastically reduces my potential pool of women who are at an age to have children. I had an incredible childhood with great parents and want to share that same thing with my kids and give my parents an opportunity to be grandparents. I'm not looking for someone to validate me or give me self esteem. 

I've got a successful career, am very athletic/fit, have a great family, lots of hobbies and just want my own family and someone special to settle down with, travel, etc. It's really hard for me to meet anyone since I work from home and am just frustrated with the whole process. This woman did have some red flags, but I was hoping to get to know her more and see if our differences could be worked out.

I tried virtual speed dating and there are only a handful of women and none of them were what I was looking for. I just keep trying and getting nowhere. Maybe I need to change my profile online or do something different. I just wish I could know what I'm doing wrong (if anything) and fix it.

[dramafreezone]

Got it.  I guess what I'm trying to say is the need to get married isn't going to help.  If women get an idea that you want to get married, it's going to be a turn off.   I seriously think women just have a gut feeling about a guy that's looking to get married, even if you don't say it.  And think about it from their point of view; I think if you met a woman tomorrow and was super into you and told you she wanted to get married, you'd find it offputting, you'd be freaked out and you'd think to yourself "what's wrong with her."  We want to earn stuff, or else we don't put a lot of value on it. 

Maybe you need to start off with the premise that if you never get married, it's ok.  Until then I think you'll always give off this vibe that you're just looking to lock a woman down, and none of them want that.  Accept that, and live you life, continue to put yourself in good situations to meet women.   I think we all have a tendency to get way ahead of ourselves instead of enjoying the present.  We're in a race to get married, race to get into a relationship instead of just enjoying the courtship.  The process is supposed to be fun, not a means to an end as in, "I can't wait to stop dating so that I can be married."  You have to start enjoying the process and that's the only way you'll find someone that's good for you, just my opinion.

And I've done speed dating.  It's not ideal, don't recommend it for several reasons.  I think mostly we're in a holding pattern until evertything opens back up, but when that happens just go enjoy things you like to do, and enjoy dating.  I don't think there's anything wrong with you other than your focus.  Stop thinking about "I have to get married."

Edited January 14, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Saracena]

Completely agree with the above post. In fact was going to comment in a similar vein myself, when I read OP's comments on marriage.

I can actually relate to this myself.  In my early twenties I was about the only one in my friendship group who did not have marriage and kids as a priority in my life. Heck, I didn't even care whether or not I had a boyfriend! (Different sometimes of course, if someone caught my eye! ) Instead I wanted to focus on my degree and career, that was it. 

So our nights out were for me to enjoy in a carefree way, not go on a  hunt for a potential partner or husband!  Guess what, I was the one who ended up getting most of the male attention! Which was due to the fact that basically, I wasn't going around giving off that 'desperate' vibe.....I'm 22 and I haven't found  anyone to marry yet! Which I reckon some of my friends were, despite their best efforts.

[Versacehottie]

2 hours ago, max3732 said:

I tried virtual speed dating and there are only a handful of women and none of them were what I was looking for. I just keep trying and getting nowhere. Maybe I need to change my profile online or do something different. I just wish I could know what I'm doing wrong (if anything) and fix it.

This is a majority of the problem I think you are having (bolded).  Why presume that something is wrong with you?  Maybe the only thing "wrong with you" is that you haven't bumped into the right person yet.  

If you haven't dated much and have been focused on other things, from purely a mathematical view, you probably haven't had the circle of interactions that it takes mathematically to make this a probablilty yet.  Dating is part science, part magic IMO.  This part is a numbers game.  You can increase/decrease the likelihood of running into the right person by widening both your dating efforts AND actual dating experiences as well as your circle of influence.  If you have a relatively routine life, and go to the office & back (pre-covid), with the same errand places, small circle of (married) friends, your opportunity is more limited than the guy who doesn't live his life that way and creates more opportunities purely from the way he conducts his life.

Secondly, the "magic" in part is often due to mindset & confidence, especially in the context where IMO where I would say to your case.  The internal belief that you are doing something "wrong" colors all your interactions--simply because you believe it!  If you operate from a "lack" position that's what your focus is on and how you operate in the world.  I could link you to at least 20 threads going on right on probably in the first page or two of the dating forum where that is part of what is going on there too.  What you are doing wrong, on one hand, is not having had enough dating occurrences, purely dates, women in/out of your life to statistically make your chances go up.  If you could tell yourself that and believe it, and wipe that other stuff about being "less than" out of your mind, your interactions will be pushed in your favor.  The thing is when you have fewer dates in total (well this actually applies to anyone dating really), you want to push everything under your control, to be favorable for you, at the same time as getting your reps up (which is both practice and opportunity in a way).  What is "under your control" are some external things you do on the date and how you present yourself as well as importantly what's going on in your mind--those things you can control.  It's not a formula that is a GUARANTEE to work but pushes it to more likely to go your way.  There is no formula to guarantee success. In all the threads we've been talking on, I've always felt like you want this perfect formula, like a lot of guys who haven't dated much but want it so bad.  What guys know that have dated a lot, is that practice usually gets you closer to success.  They are able to let go a little and be themselves more because they are less afraid of having only one chance with ONE girl.  They don't idolize the girl as much and they look to qualify the girl for entry into their life.  You have to start doing these things.  But it will come from an inner belief.  In the meantime get your reps up.  

[chillii]

Can't believe people are carrying on about a 2hr drive. Jesus it's a 7hr day of trains and flights and a 3hr drive to and from home when my gf is coming or going. My ex flew across the "world",  to be together.

Anyway so it's what more than a few days op has she gotten back do you know , heard from her ? lf ya haven't and she is still interested you should hear from her soon if not , there's your answer , she's just not feeling it.

Edited January 14, 2021 by chillii

[Trail Blazer]

Max, I've learned over the years that people act in ways which will never make sense to me.  I know it sucks, but you've got to move on, brother.  

 

[Versacehottie]

8 hours ago, chillii said:

Can't believe people are carrying on about a 2hr drive. Jesus it's a 7hr day of trains and flights and a 3hr drive to and from home when my gf is coming or going. My ex flew across the "world",  to be together.

 

Agreed.  The drive is not such a big factor IMO.  Taking into other factors the OP has stated.  

I do think the time frame without a response is a sign of her lack of interest.  OP, said that it has been since around Christmas since he's communicated with her and that she did not answer the last thing or two he sent--that's telling.

[chillii]

 

Yeah right , in that case then yeah, sure sounds like a lack of to me too op.

Edited January 14, 2021 by chillii