Casual relationship turned serious

[SaraSays]

 

On 2/21/2021 at 3:26 PM, seany25 said:

The girl I met the other night was as loose as I am

 

On 2/21/2021 at 3:26 PM, seany25 said:

the other girl oozes more sex appeal than most if not all other girls I've been with

 

On 2/21/2021 at 3:26 PM, seany25 said:

as I go through multiple more girls

I just want to mention it's really uncomfortable to see the way to refer to women. As I'm reading how you refer to us, it's as if you see us as 1-dimensional, s3x toys for the use of men, not fellow human beings living lives, and having experiences, beyond anything s3xual. To see the age-old s3xist tropes here, like "as I go through..." and "loose" being applied to women is especially jarring,  mindful we're living in the disadvantaged position every day we wake up within a patriarchy, with s3x-based discrimination, before we even get to these slights like this when we're just trying to have a break for a moment.

[Miss Spider]

On 2/21/2021 at 9:26 AM, seany25 said:

Yeah, I was thinking back to the beginning and even looked back at our messages from that time, she definitely didn't want to see me when I might have been actively sleeping with other women. Obviously, I now feel like a right idiot for not taking her seriously and wanting to continue "playing the field". I could have had a real relationship with this girl, and it's all my own fault that I don't.

The girl I met the other night was as loose as I am, and we did had sex right through to about 7am after getting p*ssed together.

Something interesting to note about the evening however, was that I found myself comparing her to the other girl I f*cked up with. This was new to me, I don't recall ever thinking about someone else whilst I was with a girl, but in a way it kind of makes sense since she had been on my mind so much recently.

Whilst this girl was nice and talkative and bubbly, on a few occasions I couldn't help imagining how much I wanted it to be the other girl sitting there, and how different they are. For me, the other girl oozes more sex appeal than most if not all other girls I've been with, in her persona, mannerisms and even her accent. I shouldn't have took that sh*t for granted.

Even the sex, whilst it was fine, was nowhere near as good as with the other girl. The girl from the other night was even slightly prudish in some respects, although some of that's most likely because she's not long out of an 8 year relationship in which sex had probably become rather mundane. It was fine, but not the best I've ever had (that credit goes to the other girl).

I've got a feeling this could potentially be the case as I go through multiple more girls.

Despite all that, it was still the essential distraction I very much needed.

How would she know that you are dating other girls.? Don’t tell me that you actually told her that. Why? You know you can date other girls (quietly) before honing in on one you like in particular for LTR? This has worked for many men.  Yet at the same time there are girls who wouldn’t care if they knew or it would up your value in their eyes if they did. Instead of just being confident in who you are again missing the forest for the trees. Your  frame is still , “ yes I messed up with this ONE girl. I goofed. I should have acted in a way that appeased her”. How about no. Unless you get super lucky, you’re going to keep running into this problem with that mindset. You met one other girl who you didn’t like all that much and now you’ve missed out on your unicorn? You sound like you’re coming from a position of extreme scarcity/poverty and desperation. 

[dramafreezone]

On 2/18/2021 at 11:22 PM, spiderowl said:

I don't think you did anything wrong by telling her your feelings over text.  Meeting in person for these things is overrated.  What if she had rejected you in person, would you have felt better?  Would she have felt better that it was in person?  I doubt it.

Maybe things went awry when you just wanted casual at the beginning.  She might have decided then not to invest too much in this relationship because you weren't. Having said that, if people fall in love, they don't usually turn down meeting their lover or wanting it to be exclusive.  For some reason, she just lost interest.  It may well be the reappearance of her ex, not necessarily because he is available to her but simply because she realises she is not 'over' him.  Something like that can make one step back from other contacts to 'make sense of things'.

I know it's hard when you have feelings for someone.  You are best moving on as best you can rather than hanging around hoping.  She is not getting in touch so she is being careful not to give you false hope.

I just have a fundamental disagreement.  I think the sharing feelings is what did him in for good.  In 20 years I cannot recall when sharing feelings ever worked out for me, and trust me I did it a lot.   Women know when you like them.  They're just very intuitive in this sense.  Most guys can't hide it well so if she's not responding then she's just not interested.  It's not because she didn't know.  They know when a guy likes them, she knows when she's being put on a pedestal, and she knows why she'd being put there.  A man that shares his feelings is almost always in a state of scarcity.

You're right in that her lack of interest could be due to the ex, but I don't think the OP did himself any favors with him focusing on her so strongly.  It's ok to like a woman but it's in his best interest to cast a wider net, so that he literally doesn't have time to obsess over this one woman.

Edited February 28, 2021 by dramafreezone

[SaraSays]

11 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

Women know when you like them.

3,897,567,351 is the latest count I can find of women in the world. Nothing about us being women means we think alike. Over our entire lifetimes, we won't even cross paths with 1% of those women.

An handful of times, I have not known that someone liked me, and only discovered they did years later after the moment had passed, or when another friend told me the person likes me in that way.

There are acts of kindness, and ways of behaving as a decent person, that may just be that, and not indicative of something more. It's impossible sometimes to know, without 1 party explicitly conveying something.

[dramafreezone]

8 minutes ago, SaraSays said:

3,897,567,351 is the latest count I can find of women in the world. Nothing about us being women means we think alike. Over our entire lifetimes, we won't even cross paths with 1% of those women.

An handful of times, I have not known that someone liked me, and only discovered they did years later after the moment had passed, or when another friend told me the person likes me in that way.

There are acts of kindness, and ways of behaving as a decent person, that may just be that, and not indicative of something more. It's impossible sometimes to know, without 1 party explicitly conveying something.

I'm speaking in a general sense, not an absolute sense.  I do see that on here comments are frequently taken in an absolute, all-or-nothing context.  I did preface what I said when saying most guys can't hide it well.  Obviously, there's some that can.

There are definitely guys that behave nicely towards women as a simple act of kindness without expecting anything in return.  But I would say the incidence of that is the same incidence as people in general doing nice things for other for no personal gain, which is to say it's not very common at all.  I feel confident in saying that more often than not a guy that does nice things for you, also likes you, sees you as attractive and would want to date you if he had the opportunity.  Does that mean all guys, no?  More guys than not?  Absolutely.

Edited February 28, 2021 by dramafreezone

[SaraSays]

24 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

I'm speaking in a general sense, not an absolute sense.  I do see that on here comments are frequently taken in an absolute, all-or-nothing context.  I did preface what I said when saying most guys can't hide it well.  Obviously, there's some that can.

There are definitely guys that behave nicely towards women as a simple act of kindness without expecting anything in return.  But I would say the incidence of that is the same incidence as people in general doing nice things for other for no personal gain, which is to say it's not very common at all.  I feel confident in saying that more often than not a guy that does nice things for you, also likes you, sees you as attractive and would want to date you if he had the opportunity.  Does that mean all guys, no?  More guys than not?  Absolutely.

I think it's just helpful to apply data where possible to show the exact meaning of the "women/men/relationships are" claims that are often made on the board, because it's 1 way to discourage sweeping generalisations, which do us no favours.

Do you have any stat's about the prevalance of random acts of kindness in the world, or about men being kind to women with no ulterior motive (you mention feeling confident in your assertion, so I'm thinking you may have done some research)?

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, dramafreezone said:

I just have a fundamental disagreement.  I think the sharing feelings is what did him in for good.  In 20 years I cannot recall when sharing feelings ever worked out for me, and trust me I did it a lot.   Women know when you like them.  They're just very intuitive in this sense.  Most guys can't hide it well so if she's not responding then she's just not interested.  It's not because she didn't know.  They know when a guy likes them, she knows when she's being put on a pedestal, and she knows why she'd being put there.  A man that shares his feelings is almost always in a state of scarcity.

I'm not one to invalidate your or anyone's experiences, but my thinking is that sharing your feelings made no difference at all with respect to the outcome.

As a woman, well one woman, when I'm very into a man, sharing his feelings, that vulnerability, is a positive thing and will endear him to me.  Pull me in, closer.  

If I'm not into him, lukewarm or on the fence, then it would push me away and be a turn off.

I'm wondering how do you or any man go about developing a relationship if you don't feel safe sharing your feelings and being vulnerable lest the woman become turned off? 

I'm not understanding that.

No we don't always know.  Many men don't put women on pedestals and in fact might behave with aloofness when the reality is they're in love with her.

Seen it happen.  It's fear.

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by poppyfields

[dramafreezone]

8 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I'm not one to invalidate your or anyone's experiences, but my thinking is that sharing your feelings made no difference at all with respect to the outcome.

As a woman, well one woman, when I'm very into a man, sharing his feelings, that vulnerability, is a positive thing and will endear him to me.  Pull me in, closer.  

If I'm not into him, lukewarm or on the fence, then it would push me away and be a turn off.

I'm wondering how do you or any man go about developing a relationship if you don't feel safe sharing your feelings and being vulnerable lest the woman become turned off? 

I'm not understanding that.

No we don't always know.  Many men don't put women on pedestals and in fact might behave with aloofness when the reality is they're in love with her.

Seen it happen.  It's fear.

 

 

 

The woman was already pulling back from him when he revealed his feelings for her.  So she was pretty much at this point that I bolded.  She was on the fence, and as such turned off from what he said.

If she was the opposite, in love, couldn't get enough of him, sure share your feelings.  That's not the case here.

Edited February 28, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Miss Spider]

Agree with poppy... when a like a guy, guy sharing feels = sexiest thing ever. 
 

nom nom nom. 
 

When I am Lukewarm or not into him = ... “cool story, man. Gotta run.” 

 

I think it’s one of those things that is grossly misinterpreted by men who want to over- complicate the thing. Because I think it works like this: the more a person is into you, the more you can show you are into them. Because the feeling is mutual, it is appreciated. But the thing happens when a guy goes for a woman whom he does not quite meet the requirements of  in some way or another ..IE she is not that into him. So when he confesses his feelings she runs for the hills, naturally. He gets sad. But he discovers some sort of immunity to this by not confessing feelings. He learns by doing this can manipulate SOME women into the chase for his validation . That’s not a healthy relationship dynamic. People who believe this are usually not in healthy relationships.
 

And I don’t think that this needs to be empirically validated with a peer reviewed study of some sort. I think everyone should take the comments made on here as the individual’s  opinion based on their individual thoughts and experiences. I think it’s almost impossible to quantify matters of the heart and that way, anyway.

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[dramafreezone]

22 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Because I think it works like this: the more a person is into you, the more you can show you are into them. Because the feeling is mutual, it is appreciated. But the thing happens when a guy goes for a woman whom he does not quite meet the requirements of  in some way or another ..IE she is not that into him. So when he confesses his feelings she runs for the hills, naturally. He gets sad. But he discovers some sort of immunity to this by not confessing feelings. He learns by doing this can manipulate SOME women into the chase for his validation . That’s not a healthy relationship dynamic. People who believe this are usually not in healthy relationships.

 

Absolutely agree with the first part.

And I guess that's what I meant.  She was obviously not at his level of investment, which is why it was a mistake to share his feelings.  I've never seen it happen where sharing my feelings somehow increased her feelings, which I believe was the OP's intent.  From that vantage point, there's no point to it except to get his hopes up and for her to hurt his feelings. 

What I will say though is that keeping my feelings guarded is not something I do for women.  It's what I do for myself.  Every guy isn't the same and some have natural tendencies that they have to protect themselves from.  At my core, I think you should be able to say you really like a girl and would like to pursue a relationship.  I used to think that sharing feelings increased the other woman's feelings, and all you had to do to make a woman fall in love with you is want it bad enough.  What I've learned is the way I thought things should work and the way they actually work are not congruent.  The way I used to think was approval seeking, as in if I just prove my love to her, she will love me.

There is a healthier element to guarding your feelings.  It's rooted in protecting yourself, valuing yourself.  That said,  like anything else it can be taken too far.  But keeping your feelings to yourself when you're feeling far more into a woman than she's into you, I don't see a problem with that.

Edited February 28, 2021 by dramafreezone

[poppyfields]

@dramafreezone, I think we are all unique individuals, there is no "one size fits all."

So, speaking for myself, as one unique individual, there have been times when I was not sure how a man felt about me, and as such, I kept my feelings guarded, even to myself!  Let alone reveal to him. 

So, when that man has the confidence and courage to step up, and reveal his feelings, something inside me, the feelings I was too scared to acknowledge even to myself, become awakened, and suddenly I am feeling an enormous pull towards him, it draws me in closer, and makes it safer for me to acknowledge and reveal my feelings.

So in essence, a man sharing his feels can potentially increase my feelings for him (or awaken them) and in fact has in the past.

Edited March 1, 2021 by poppyfields

[seany25]

On 2/28/2021 at 6:18 PM, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Quote

How would she know that you are dating other girls.? Don’t tell me that you actually told her that. Why? You know you can date other girls (quietly) before honing in on one you like in particular for LTR? This has worked for many men.  Yet at the same time there are girls who wouldn’t care if they knew or it would up your value in their eyes if they did. Instead of just being confident in who you are again missing the forest for the trees.

I remember putting a picture upon Snapchat a couple of months after we started seeing each other and she understandably went cold. I asked her a few weeks later was she p*ssed off with me and she said "Nope, I'm just not into sleeping with someone that's sleeping with others. That's all." And so that was it for a few months (during which she was seeing someone new) until I re-engaged her and we started meeting up again. This time around there were no more talks about seeing other people, or what was happening between us, it was clear that we were purely casual.

Quote

Your  frame is still , “ yes I messed up with this ONE girl. I goofed. I should have acted in a way that appeased her”. How about no. Unless you get super lucky, you’re going to keep running into this problem with that mindset. You met one other girl who you didn’t like all that much and now you’ve missed out on your unicorn? You sound like you’re coming from a position of extreme scarcity/poverty and desperation. 

I'm not coming from a place of scarcity and desperation. It would be more appropriate to say that if there was only one woman in my life. In my case there is more than one woman, but one of those women I went and fell in love with. It's not totally unsurprising; with an on-off relationship over the course of 2 years, it's not unlikely that one half is going to catch feelings.
 

I don't know how to do the quote thing properly. Responses are in the expand box above.

Edited March 4, 2021 by seany25

[seany25]

On 2/28/2021 at 7:56 PM, dramafreezone said:

I just have a fundamental disagreement.  I think the sharing feelings is what did him in for good.  In 20 years I cannot recall when sharing feelings ever worked out for me, and trust me I did it a lot.   Women know when you like them.  They're just very intuitive in this sense.  Most guys can't hide it well so if she's not responding then she's just not interested.  It's not because she didn't know.  They know when a guy likes them, she knows when she's being put on a pedestal, and she knows why she'd being put there.  A man that shares his feelings is almost always in a state of scarcity.

You're right in that her lack of interest could be due to the ex, but I don't think the OP did himself any favors with him focusing on her so strongly.  It's ok to like a woman but it's in his best interest to cast a wider net, so that he literally doesn't have time to obsess over this one woman.

I can't help theorizing it both ways. I do feel like sharing my feelings was contributory in bringing what we had to an end, but at the time it was (yes) an act of desperation in that I felt her slipping away (which she evidently was) and I felt like I needed to tell her how I felt about her. I knew it could go badly but in the midst of emotion I couldn't help myself. On the other hand I think about what would have happened had I not said anything; I don't believe the outcome would have been much different, except I would have been left with this thought that I could have and should have told her how I felt. Although as we know, she already knew.

I was focused on her so strongly due to the intensity of our connection having skyrocketed in October and November. A connection which she told me she also felt. So I believed we were on the same page and going in the same direction. I do/did have other girls, but as I've said, this one, I began to fall for back around that time.

[seany25]

On 2/28/2021 at 9:03 PM, dramafreezone said:

The woman was already pulling back from him when he revealed his feelings for her.  So she was pretty much at this point that I bolded.  She was on the fence, and as such turned off from what he said.

If she was the opposite, in love, couldn't get enough of him, sure share your feelings.  That's not the case here.

Yeah, she was already distant and pulling back, and yet I don't know why. Most likely it was due to some of my behaviours after us agreeing about the "connection" between us.

[seany25]

On 3/1/2021 at 7:07 PM, poppyfields said:

 

So, when that man has the confidence and courage to step up, and reveal his feelings, something inside me, the feelings I was too scared to acknowledge even to myself, become awakened, and suddenly I am feeling an enormous pull towards him, it draws me in closer, and makes it safer for me to acknowledge and reveal my feelings.

So in essence, a man sharing his feels can potentially increase my feelings for him (or awaken them) and in fact has in the past.

See, in a way it was twofold. I've mentioned a few times about this electric connection between us escalating in October and November, so for me we had been on the same page, at least for a while. Then in the lead up to Christmas I started getting more and more emotional about it and the feelings grew to the point I was absolutely certain I wanted us to be exclusive, with the plan to ask her face to face at Christmas. Obviously we never met, and we know what happened.

Aside from me potentially helping to push her away through some of my behaviour and communications, I wonder if distance also helped this along too. I think the more time that accumulated between us last seeing each other at the end of November may have also been a factor, because when we were together everything was just damn great. Just so comfortable and fun. A small part of me even thinks I could even have missed my opportunity to be exclusive with her by not capitalising on it back at the peak of our connection.

[seany25]

Out of the blue she popped back up last night on Snapchat. She had removed me or deleted her own account or whatever, because somehow I just got a random notification saying "(Girl) has accepted your request" even though I hadn't sent one.

It was of course, a bit of a surprise. Very soon after, she then put a cryptic quote on her story that said " If you understand how frequently people cope by projecting, you would learn to take absolutely nothing personally" and this was 100% posted for my attention.

I then looked at "projecting" a bit, and I have to say it's an interesting psychological theory / concept. One I'll look into further, for personal interest. It could be much bigger than we realise, since it's generally unconscious. Real deep stuff.

In terms of me not taking her withdrawal personally, I didn't. At least not from the perspective of it being purposely done to hurt me. But even though I don't take it personally in that sense, it was very personal to me because it hit me quite a dig, so is that still me taking it personally?

As for her "projecting", it's not like that explains much. It's an extremely broad term, and could mean projecting one of, or many things. So I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to make of this piece of information other than there's a somewhat vague explanation for her disappearance during a time in which I wanted her more than ever.

I don't know what will come of this and I don't know if I want anything to come of this. Perhaps she's just come back to give me this indirect explanation and she'll be off again. Perhaps she's better now and wants to reconcile. But even though in the back of my mind I secretly hoped and imagined she'd be back at some stage, I've grieved for this relationship. I've felt and expelled the hurt already, and even if there was a reconciliation, a big question on my mind is, would I feel the same way I did in the lead up to Christmas when I was all besotted and emotional about her. It's like, sadly that important moment has passed.

Anyways, I'm not sure what to do about this. Part of me wants to reach out but part of me wants her to reach out to me.

Edited April 20, 2021 by seany25