Disobedience driving me crazy!!

[Hunny]

Oh where to start...My 3 (going on 30) year old has really turned lately, she's pushing and pushing. She's purposefully disobedient, as stubborn as me, back chats, wont do as she's told ie. clear her toys up, put her coat on etc and lately everything is a constant battle!

 

Is this normal for her to be so defiant at this age? Is it something i've done to generally pi$$ her off?!? She is REALLY advanced for her age and has been moved up a year in school, she has the reading and writing abilities of a six year old and im wondering if its because she's frustrated.

 

Any one shed any light as our daily wars are getting worse

[Moose]

This must be your first child?

 

This is perfectly normal, however, if I were you, I'd get a firm grip on her and demand respect.

 

It's not as hard as you might think, make a deal with her that you'll treat her in the same manner as she treats you.

 

One thing that I've learned is to always stay calm. Almost unfeeling.....they win when they can cause your blood pressure to go up.

 

And most of all, STAY CONSISTANT< STAY CONSISTANT< STAY CONSISTANT!

 

I can't say that enough.

 

Good luck!

[slubberdegullion]

Moose has made an excellent point. Consistency is a fundamental in dealing with kids. Kids whine and throw tantrums and all the rest because once in a while it works. They have nothing to lose by creating a ruckus.

 

Positive reinforcement is far more effective than punishment. That's not to say that legitimate, caring punishment doesn't have a place. It most certainly does. But if you're looking for peace and joy in the household, then punishments dished out willy-nilly will only cause disruption.

 

So, instead of punishing the child with a time-out or removing TV time or whatever, make TV time something that needs to be earned. For instance, if the child finishes all their supper, then they can be rewarded with an hour of TV. If they don't, then no TV. If they go to bed on time without a fuss, then they get to have their favourite book read to them before sleep.

 

The point is to keep the atmosphere in the household positive, instead of focusing on the negative. Reward the good behaviour.

 

Good luck.

[Outcast]

Parents shouldn't be drill sargeants. I always shudder when I hear 'back talk' as though all independent opinions should be quashed. Her job is not to be a brainless droid who does all your bidding but to grow into an independent, thinking person. You say she's already advanced so you may have to treat her more like a 6-year-old than a 3-year-old.

 

She could very well be frustrated in school. Does she like hobbies or crafts? Maybe find interesting things that she can occupy her time with. I was one of those bright kids and I used to love school-type exercise books and flash cards and things like that and I looooved to read. Maybe take her to the library often and let her take out books to read.

 

On behaviour, I agree with Slub that positive reinforcement is best but I've also found that treating kids like little human beings rather than like little privates meant to be ordered around by no-nonsense sargeants earns much more cooperation.

 

If she can read and write at the level of a 6-year-old, then she will likely understand reasoning so rather than 'because I told you to' tell her why you need her to do what you want her to do and try to approach it from a helping aspect. For instance, ask her if she could help you by tidying some of her room.

 

Or you can make it a contest. A lot of parents have great success by using timers. You set the timer for 15 minutes and then you and she have a contest to see who can pick up the most stuff in 15 minutes.

[New_Wife]

I'm a bit more old school. I do not now, nor have I ever, tolerate(ed) my children treating me disrespectfully. Did I beat them? Nope. I think each caught about 2 spankings for dangerous stuff (car dashes into street, hot oven, etc.). I was, however, not a bit shy about cleaning a dirty mouth with a dab of soap, sending to room to sit and think about it, taking toys and privlidges away, and sitting them at the kitchen table, hands flat on the table, and not letting them move for a minute or two (depending on how old they were - sometimes more).

 

I've not HAD to discipline my teens in years. If they hear their middle names, they straighten up quick, or recognize that all the little extras can be yanked away. The younger two follow their example, so they're pretty easy too.

 

But I agree with Moose, consistency is everything. If something is bad one time, but ignored or okay the next, the kid won't know which way to go and will push.

 

In my opinion, guiding your child into respectful and good behavior is showing them love. Inside the loving boundaries of a parent's guidance, children have the freedom to explore the more positive aspects of their personalities and shine. They know what they shouldn't do, so they have much more room to explore what they can and should do.

[Ladyjane14]

Is this normal for her to be so defiant at this age?

 

Yeah, defiance is 'par for the course' at age 3. Your baby is discovering that she's a separate person with her own wants and ideas. She's exploring the boundaries of her autonomy. Perfectly normal.

 

People always talk about the "terrible twos", but really....I think 3 is a MUCH more challenging age.

 

The good new is that when she's 4, she'll be FUN again. Four year olds have started to develop an interest in doing things with you. They've noticed their surroundings a little more. They'll be happy to color with you and help you bake cookies. Play your cards just right....and a four year old will even help you fold the laundry.

 

You best bet is just as Moose and New Wife have said.....Consistancy. Set limits. Enforce them as necessary. Reward good behavior.

[Lupin3]

Just beat the **** out of her. That'll teach her for trying to be smart or disobeying you. Remember, even if she's advanced for her age, you're smarter, stronger, and faster than her.

 

here's a good lesson http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=beat

 

Just do it. Otherwise she'll never respect you.

[Ladyjane14]

Just beat the **** out of her. That'll teach her for trying to be smart or disobeying you. Remember, even if she's advanced for her age, you're smarter, stronger, and faster than her.

 

here's a good lesson http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=beat

 

Just do it. Otherwise she'll never respect you.

 

:lmao: :lmao: Not entirely helpful....

 

But I have to admit, Maddox is one of my guilty pleasures.

 

Unfortunately, there's going to be at least some folks who take this idea as a serious one.

 

You better duck, kid.

[Lupin3]

Well the people who take that post seriously are the ones who actually need this method, ironically.

[Lil Honey]

Hunny:

 

My daughter waited until she was three to have her terrible twos as well. There I was, all through her second year, bragging that MY CHILD was an angel. Little did I know.

 

I think birthorder has a lot to do with their personalities, too.

 

That or my Higher Power is doing this so he/she can sit back and have a good laugh at my expense.

[Hot Coco]

I'm a bit more old school. I do not now, nor have I ever, tolerate(ed) my children treating me disrespectfully. Did I beat them? Nope. I think each caught about 2 spankings for dangerous stuff (car dashes into street, hot oven, etc.). I was, however, not a bit shy about cleaning a dirty mouth with a dab of soap, sending to room to sit and think about it, taking toys and privlidges away, and sitting them at the kitchen table, hands flat on the table, and not letting them move for a minute or two (depending on how old they were - sometimes more).

 

I've not HAD to discipline my teens in years. If they hear their middle names, they straighten up quick, or recognize that all the little extras can be yanked away. The younger two follow their example, so they're pretty easy too.

 

But I agree with Moose, consistency is everything. If something is bad one time, but ignored or okay the next, the kid won't know which way to go and will push.

 

In my opinion, guiding your child into respectful and good behavior is showing them love. Inside the loving boundaries of a parent's guidance, children have the freedom to explore the more positive aspects of their personalities and shine. They know what they shouldn't do, so they have much more room to explore what they can and should do.

 

What an excellent post! More parents should be like you. I realize this post is a little old now but I just had to comment.

 

Funny, but the people (and I mean NO offense to anyone here) who say they should be treated like little adults and there's no such thing as backtalk usually don't have kids! My sister is one of those people. She's always saying stuff like that. Man, I bet her tune would change if she ever has kids!

 

Sadly, some people who have that philosophy on child-rearing actually have kids and stick to that philosophy. Their kids are usually the worst spoiled brats you will ever see. It's sad to me. It's a form of abuse really.

 

Your post was really on the mark. I believe the word "discipline" comes from a word that means "to teach and guide." Yes, we show love when we discipline our children.

[Outcast]

Funny, but the people (and I mean NO offense to anyone here) who say they should be treated like little adults and there's no such thing as backtalk usually don't have kids! My sister is one of those people.

 

That may be. I however did have experience with four stepkids who were great kids.

[Hot Coco]

I don't really get your point. Did you raise them? Were they raised with no discipline?

 

Also, you may know that different methods work for different children. What works for one child may not work for another. I know this from experience. Sometimes you really HAVE to be a bit of a "drill sergeant." For other kids it might be overkill but for some it's the ONLY way. Maybe your 4 stepkids were perfect little angels and you only had to have a little talk with them and explain to them what they did wrong. But for other kids that would not be effective.

 

I guess my point is that there's no ONE formula for raising kids. There isn't ONE right way. All kids are different and so discipline styles need to be different.

[lilmoma1973]

Oh where to start...My 3 (going on 30) year old has really turned lately, she's pushing and pushing. She's purposefully disobedient, as stubborn as me, back chats, wont do as she's told ie. clear her toys up, put her coat on etc and lately everything is a constant battle!

 

Is this normal for her to be so defiant at this age? Is it something i've done to generally pi$$ her off?!? She is REALLY advanced for her age and has been moved up a year in school, she has the reading and writing abilities of a six year old and im wondering if its because she's frustrated.

 

Any one shed any light as our daily wars are getting worse

 

I was just thinking of making a post about how my 6 yr old was this morning !! I have had it with my difaent child !! She is on my last nerve , i am tried of telling her to get dress ,brush her hair!!! I am always struggling to get out the door just to get her to school cause she doesn't want to cooperate with me!!!! I try to be nice with her and it doesn't work!! I think the reason she does things to me like that is because my h really has no respect for me at all!! SS doesn't either ..

 

My h brings home the paycheck but as far as helping around the house or helping me with putting daughter to bed he doesn't i do it all!!! I read wth her after school ,we do homework, i put her in the bath, i get her clothes for bed and school and give her allergy meds !! He will put her to bd if she falls asleep in the living room ... She has a castle bd and it is too high for me to pu her up there!! That' all he does at night for her!! It was the same for ss now he i 15 and i do nothing he does it guess he pretty much has it easy with him because ss can pretty do what he wants !!! Guess daughter is too much to deal with and he would rather give her way to her than deal with what i do!!! Oh well the story of my life !!! I SO FRUSTRATED !!!! I just wish it would get easier than it has been !!!

Good luck we will need it for these head strong kids!!!! Pm if you would like to talk we have alot in common!!!

[Hot Coco]

You're not alone lilmomma. Mine is defiant too. It's hard sometimes. Since H brings home paycheck though, I don't expect him to really do housework or anything. I HAVE been asking him to step in a little with backing me up on the discipline issues.

 

Sounds like your daughter is like my son. You've just to be tougher with these kinds of kids. They'll listen but just don't wimp out.

[lilmoma1973]

You're not alone lilmomma. Mine is defiant too. It's hard sometimes. Since H brings home paycheck though, I don't expect him to really do housework or anything. I HAVE been asking him to step in a little with backing me up on the discipline issues.

 

Sounds like your daughter is like my son. You've just to be tougher with these kinds of kids. They'll listen but just don't wimp out.

 

Thanks Hot coco glad to see there are alot of stay at home moms dealing with the same thing !!! I respect the fact that my h works but he gets an outlet during the week twice a week ... He is in a band and is always having free time me on the other hand i don't unless my mom keeps her ..I don't agree with my h not helping me around the house im not his mother and i refuse to pick up after him like a kid after i have already straighten up !!! I guess im stressed and want a little help every once in awhile and never get it .. I'm tired of being treated as a maid and a slave to everyone!! Sorry just neeeded to vent:D

[Hot Coco]

Vent away. Believe me I understand. Can't he take some time on the weekend to be with your daughter so you could have some time to yourself to do what you want? Oh, and I don't blame you for not wanting to pick up after him. I'm lucky that my H picks up after himself. I just do all laundry, cooking and general cleaning, plus everything to do with our son.

[JadeStar]

I can relate to this as well. However since both my kids are in school. I pick and choose the time I need/want for myself. Some days I may stay home and clean get caught up on the things I need too etc. Then there are times when I might pick a day during the time the kids are in school, just for me. You know, some 'me" time. I may go out to the mall, not always to buy something but maybe just to get out of the house and look around, window shop. Or I may go do something special for myself, go get a latte and browse the books in the book stores etc. Just to take a breather for myself.

 

Having kids can be tough but we also need time to our selves to restore our bodies and minds. My folks are good with keeping the kids too sometimes so me and hubby can have a 'date" night. Its good to have quailty time with our spouses and ourselves, also its a good time to talk or communicate with our spouses about the kids and what need or should be done. Sometimes that alone and renew our way of thinking/dealing with the kids. Yes it can be frustrating when we don't always have alot of help, but sometimes its good to do for yourself, take advantage of that when you can, some people don't even have that.

 

 

 

Jade

[Hot Coco]

I can relate to this as well. However since both my kids are in school. I pick and choose the time I need/want for myself. Some days I may stay home and clean get caught up on the things I need too etc. Then there are times when I might pick a day during the time the kids are in school, just for me. You know, some 'me" time. I may go out to the mall, not always to buy something but maybe just to get out of the house and look around, window shop. Or I may go do something special for myself, go get a latte and browse the books in the book stores etc. Just to take a breather for myself.

 

Having kids can be tough but we also need time to our selves to restore our bodies and minds. My folks are good with keeping the kids too sometimes so me and hubby can have a 'date" night. Its good to have quailty time with our spouses and ourselves, also its a good time to talk or communicate with our spouses about the kids and what need or should be done. Sometimes that alone and renew our way of thinking/dealing with the kids. Yes it can be frustrating when we don't always have alot of help, but sometimes its good to do for yourself, take advantage of that when you can, some people don't even have that.

 

 

 

Jade

 

Good post, Jade! Good suggestions. Yes, it's really about learning to manage your time better maybe. Break out of your normal routine if you can.

[lilmoma1973]

I can relate to this as well. However since both my kids are in school. I pick and choose the time I need/want for myself. Some days I may stay home and clean get caught up on the things I need too etc. Then there are times when I might pick a day during the time the kids are in school, just for me. You know, some 'me" time. I may go out to the mall, not always to buy something but maybe just to get out of the house and look around, window shop. Or I may go do something special for myself, go get a latte and browse the books in the book stores etc. Just to take a breather for myself.

 

Having kids can be tough but we also need time to our selves to restore our bodies and minds. My folks are good with keeping the kids too sometimes so me and hubby can have a 'date" night. Its good to have quailty time with our spouses and ourselves, also its a good time to talk or communicate with our spouses about the kids and what need or should be done. Sometimes that alone and renew our way of thinking/dealing with the kids. Yes it can be frustrating when we don't always have alot of help, but sometimes its good to do for yourself, take advantage of that when you can, some people don't even have that.

 

 

 

Jade

 

Yeah i do that when i drop the kids off !! I just this morning went to the grocery store and it was nice !! I like the fact i don't have to deal with telling someone that they can 't have that or no all the time !! Sure is nice!! My mom kept my daughter this past weekend and h had a gig and i didn't go because i was mad at him so i took some me time and went shopping at the mall !! I loved it !! I spent money and didn't hear no complaining !! I love to shop as well as exercise those are my two stress relievers !! I went to the movie place and rented some mushy videos and came home and watched them and curled up on the couch and it was so nice... It was purely relaxing and i loved it!!

[RainyDayWoman]

Parents shouldn't be drill sargeants. I always shudder when I hear 'back talk' as though all independent opinions should be quashed. Her job is not to be a brainless droid who does all your bidding but to grow into an independent, thinking person. You say she's already advanced so you may have to treat her more like a 6-year-old than a 3-year-old.

 

 

On behaviour, I agree with Slub that positive reinforcement is best but I've also found that treating kids like little human beings rather than like little privates meant to be ordered around by no-nonsense sargeants earns much more cooperation.

 

 

right freaking on.

[MommaWoods]

Okay so I typed into Google, "What to do with a disobedient, stubborn 5 yr old" and I found you guys! I am so happy to know that I am not the only one that is going completely crazy and wondering what I am doing wrong! My adorable, fun, intellegent, loving, pain in the royal wazzue is driving me to distraction! I adore him but want to just beat the living life out of him sometimes! I have been supportive and pushed positive behavior, I have practiced time outs and priveledge loss, I have 3 paddles strategically located for convenience when he is getting really out of hand, and still he challanges me daily!! I have been extremely consistent since the age of 2 and yet he still challenges me and speaks to me with little or no respect. And then we will have many good days where I see light at the end of the tunnell, then we will go through another challenging period! My greatest fear is that I have to break his spirit in order to get the respect required or needed. It is not just me, he refuses to respect adults in authority; ie: teachers, principal's, other adults. Daddy is a little help but not allot, of course all he has to do is say Zane, and attitudes change! But me the master and slave of all, that spends oodles of time with him, reads, does homework, crafts, activities, dicipline, working, cleaning, repairs, improvements, paying the bills, all of the cooking and wash, get's the disrespect. And of course his brother is right behind him and almost 2. I just want someone to promise me that he will grow up and have a great life, because the alternative scares me to death! I just pray that somewhere down the line it will all pay off! Scarey to think that I prayed so hard for this misery and joy! Don't get me wrong I love them all to death, I just want to receive some of what I give back! I don't think that is asking to much! Wish you all the best and wish me luck too! Crazy in Chicago: MommaWoods

[Ladyjane14]

Why do you have "3 paddles strategically located for convenience"? I can count on one hand the number of times that a "paddling" became necessary with my kids.

 

Corporal punishment is a huge debate in the discussion of parenting methods. Personally, I'm not against it....but I do view it as a method of last resort. And it should NEVER be done immediately when a parent is feeling overwhelmed or angry. The strategic placement of paddles suggests that there's no 'cooling off' period before discipline is administered.

 

It's okay to take a 'time out' for yourself before you discipline your child. Your child is NOT a puppy who will forget what he did that caused the need for discipline, so feel free to take a breather when you need it. Paddling 'on the fly' is not going to be effective because you haven't allowed yourself enough time to decide what the best method might be.

 

One thing that I found effective on my own children when they were small was a tip that I read in a parenting magazine. Basically, it deals with toddlers who are physically 'out of control'.

 

You set the child in your lap, face to face with his legs on either side of your waist and his arms gently pinned under your own. You use a soothing voice to reassure him that he's okay, but he's going to fight like a demon to get loose. That's the point, becaue HERE is the lesson....Yes, I can keep you from doing what you want. Yes, I am bigger and stronger than you. And yes, you do have to listen to what I say.

 

The drawback to this method is that it puts your chest in line with his little sharp teeth. Usually a no-nonsense tone of voice will address the biting, if not....get some padding in the form of a thick folded blanket between you and his teeth before you pick him up.

 

Once the fight has gone out of him you can let him go and comfort him. The whole idea, afterall, was only to prove that you ARE the boss of him.

 

On the rare occasions that I've ever had to spank a hiney, I have always made a major production of it with the child over my lap and making contact skin to skin. I always pulled my pinky finger up (like drinking from a tea cup), in order to NOT exert to much force. That produces a stinging sensation, and the sound-effect gets their attention. The idea is NOT to hurt the kid afterall, but rather to let him know that you can pretty much do with him as you will.

 

I've never spanked one of mine before the age of 4, or after the age of 7. By then, they can be reasoned with. Spanking is not nearly as effective as most other forms of discipline in older children....because at a certain point, you have him 'where he lives' regarding priviledges and permissions. Once they're capable of the real-life concept of 'cause and effect' you needn't ever spank again.

 

Some will say you needn't spank at all. Good on them for figuring out a way around it while keeping their authority intact. I always swore I'd never spank at all....but I didn't know the 'nature of the beast' back then.

[Hot Coco]

Very well put. And it does bear out what I've said. People who don't have children, in my opinion, should NEVER say NEVER. They have NO clue.

 

Very well stated LJ. Your approach to discipline is very much like my own.

[Ladyjane14]

Thanks Coco. My kids are a good bit older now, and they've become fairly solid young citizens.

 

But you know, there never really does come a time when you're 100% convinced that you're handling every little parenting issue just right. I guess we all just muddle through as best we can.