Women waiting for sex to avoid being used

[LeoLady888]

Quote

Happened to me a few years back, girl made me wait around 8-10 dated before sex, also when we were "exclusive", just to find out she was absolutely terrible in the sack and it only got worse from there.

I find this a rather derogatory statement.

Why blame her when there were 2 people in this 'sack', didn't you have a part to play?

[Lovesoul]

15 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Not always though.  I have told this story before but a friend of mine waited six months to have sex with her boyfriend, and he dumped her shortly thereafter.

My take is have it earlier, assuming you both want to, this way should he dump afterwards, you won't be so invested.

My girlfriend was six months invested when she got dumped and was absolutely devastated. 

It's a fallacy that men will leave after early sex.  Categorically not true and I speak from experience when saying that.

However, the bolded, this is true!  But "working harder" doesn't always mean work harder for sex. 

A woman can have early sex, but still be (not play) a bit hard to get requiring a man to "work harder."

This kind of mentality "men value more what they have to work harder to get." only applies to cave men. This is so sexist! It's like treating a woman like she is an object that he has to work hard to get, like working hard to buy a house, or a car, or whatever!

Like the house or the car or the woman has more value because it was hard to have it....

Women are HUMAN BEINGS! Just because they DECIDE to have sex early, that doesn't take their value away at all! Because they are not an inanimate object waiting to be used. They have a personality, a world inside them, a life story! If a man does not care about any of that because she had sex too early, then it's HIS loss due to his cave man mentality.

A woman should have sex whenever she wants to have sex without being judged like an object that loses value. Please, we are in the 21st century!

[Millennial]

This is literally a feminist discussion.

I don't believe a single human being, male or female, feminist or no, who claims that they are not the least bit interested in their other-half's sexual history.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Millennial

[introverted1]

This thread makes it seem that sex is exclusively transactional and that there is a strategy to be applied regarding whether/when to have sex. Some people, myself among them, just aren't comfortable having sex quickly. It has nothing to do with a lack of attraction or prudishness and more to do with the fact that I consider sex to be an intimate act that I prefer to share only with those with whom I've formed an emotional bond.  I guess this rules out guys who need sex before they can bond, but that's ok.  Others can (and do!) have other views and there is nothing wrong with those views.  To each his/her own. But the notion that anyone who waits is doing so because of some game or manipulation is flat out wrong, imo.

Edited December 22, 2020 by introverted1

[poppyfields]

34 minutes ago, Lovesoul said:

This kind of mentality "men value more what they have to work harder to get." only applies to cave men. This is so sexist! It's like treating a woman like she is an object that he has to work hard to get, like working hard to buy a house, or a car, or whatever!

Like the house or the car or the woman has more value because it was hard to have it....

Women are HUMAN BEINGS! Just because they DECIDE to have sex early, that doesn't take their value away at all! Because they are not an inanimate object waiting to be used. They have a personality, a world inside them, a life story! If a man does not care about any of that because she had sex too early, then it's HIS loss due to his cave man mentality.

A woman should have sex whenever she wants to have sex without being judged like an object that loses value. Please, we are in the 21st century!

First off, no need to yell.  Lol 

Secondly, I agree with you, perhaps you missed my earlier post?

>> First of all, this notion that a man (or woman) has to “work” for anything, including sex, is absolutely absurd.  That is not how healthy relationships develop and intimacy achieved.

And anyone who feels that demonstrating interest by let’s say a man taking a woman out to dinner at nice restaurant (and paying) or a woman cooking a lovely dinner at home is “work” then they should NOT be dating, period.

“Doing” for our partners should give us joy, not be seen as "work."  We give from our hearts because it gives us JOY.  This is true or should be for both men and women.

Also absurd is the notion that when women have sex, she’s “giving away her virtue.”   Newsflash, women enjoy sex just as much as men, it has nothing to do with giving away her virtue.  Secure men understand this and don’t hold her to a standard they themselves don’t follow.

I have never required a man to “earn my love” in my entire life and NEVER would.  Nor have any of my boyfriends, including my current fiancé, required me to "earn his love."<<

-------

We are all valuable human beings and should be treated as such.  No person, man or woman, should be forced to "work" for our love or "earn" it.

If giving to your parther from your heart doesn't give you joy, or you otherwise don't value them for who they are, without them having to work for it, stop dating them and go live under a rock.

Edited December 22, 2020 by poppyfields

[LeoLady888]

 "It has nothing to do with a lack of attraction or prudishness and more to do with the fact that I consider sex to be an intimate act that I prefer to share only with those with whom I've formed an emotional bond."

I would agree with this.

I would also be looking for a relationship based on mutual care, trust and respect, plus good communication.  I believe that it isn't possible to discover if these criteria exist after only a few dates.

Others can please themselves.

Edited December 22, 2020 by LeoLady888

[Lovesoul]

21 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

First off, no need to yell.  Lol 

Secondly, I agree with you, perhaps you missed my earlier post?

>> First of all, this notion that a man (or woman) has to “work” for anything, including sex, is absolutely absurd.  That is not how healthy relationships develop and intimacy achieved.

And anyone who feels that demonstrating interest by let’s say a man taking a woman out to dinner at nice restaurant (and paying) or a woman cooking a lovely dinner at home is “work” then they should NOT be dating, period.

“Doing” for our partners should give us joy, not be seen as "work."  We give from our hearts because it gives us JOY.  This is true or should be for both men and women.

Also absurd is the notion that when women have sex, she’s “giving away her virtue.”   Newsflash, women enjoy sex just as much as men, it has nothing to do with giving away her virtue.  Secure men understand this and don’t hold her to a standard they themselves don’t follow.

I have never required a man to “earn my love” in my entire life and NEVER would.  Nor have any of my boyfriends, including my current fiancé, required me to "earn his love."<<

-------

We are all valuable human beings and should be treated as such.  No person, man or woman, should be forced to "work" for our love or "earn" it.

If giving to your parther from your heart doesn't give you joy, or you otherwise don't value them for who they are, without them having to work for it, stop dating them and go live under a rock.

Sorry no yelling!  

Yes I understand your point and agree to a T!

People that think in terms of "working hard to have sex", or "like women who play hard to get", etc, are people who play games. And why do they play games? Because they do not know how to relate in a healthy and loving and honest way.

Because they probably have unhealthy relationship patterns and traumas they don't even are aware of. Sex is something two people do, not something "the man takes from the woman". lol

Two people having no masks and saying out loud they want to have sex with each other is beautiful! That kind of openess, vulnerability and honesty is powerful and that should be valued, regardless if they end up in a relationship or not.

And this also answers the question I posted on my own thread. lol

Edited December 22, 2020 by Lovesoul

[NuevoYorko]

15 hours ago, Lance Mannion said:

 

The best strategy for women is to never have ONS and to always make their men wait for it, but for those who've already had a history of ONS, don't ever make guys you like wait for it because it has a chance of blowing up everything months/years later when he learns of the disrespect towards him.

Seriously?  Whatever a woman has done with other men in her past, before we met, has nothing to do with me.  Why would I care if she's had ONS's.  I've had them.  Those days are in my past and I'm interested women who are not currently exploring ONS's, but if she's had them in her life?  I hope she enjoyed them.

Certainly her previous sexual experiences are not a sign of disrespect towards me.  How she treats me is what matters.  

If you want to date virgins, go for it, but the fact that a woman hasn't enjoyed sex with others before you (unless she is 16 years old) doesn't mean that she has an iota of respect for you, and vice versa.  

Frankly, this attitude you're preaching seems alarmingly insecure.  

 

[Lovesoul]

And also this is quite funny, this mentality of "what is hard to get has more value", because in my life I value more what comes effortlessly and naturally. Because that means I am being true to myself and things in my life are flowing.

So if I meet someone where things just flow, communication is easy, there's attraction, honesty, sex happens naturally, etc, that is AMAZING! That is what I value.

I do not understand the concept of "what's hard to get has more value", to me that has "childhood trauma" written all over it.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Lovesoul

[kismetkismet]

I think a lot of it depends on how attached a person gets after sex. If it's really going to hurt you if it doesn't work out after you have sex, then of course don't do it until you really trust him and feel ready. Also, if a woman starts acting like she's prematurely attached/over-invested it can make some guys a bit gun-shy when they're not 'there' yet (and vice versa). 

Personally, it takes me a long time to get attached to people and it's not related to whether or not I've slept with them, so I didn't often wait that long. My husband and my ex before him were both meant to be one night stands/casual and then they pushed me for a relationship. I never had a guy not call me after sleeping together.

Long story short, just do what you're comfortable with and what feels right to you. There are no hard and fast rules that will trick people into loving you, or force them to reject you. 

[Ami1uwant]

15 hours ago, poppyfields said:

How long should she wait though, and why?  Many men will feel manipulated when a woman intentionally waits.  Especially when it’s obvious she’s extremely attracted and wants to have sex.

I dunno, we could argue the merits of waiting versus not waiting until the end of time, we still won’t resolve the issue.

It’s just too subjective a topic to say definitively what “works.”  My attitude has always been follow your own intuition, do what you feel comfortable doing, and let chips fall where they may.

It’s all a risk no matter how we look at it.

 

I agree avoiding early sex so it doesn’t turn into one might stands where one side Pooh’s or ghosts after.

this isn’t just the guy notching is belt but she may feel guilty or ashamed at being too easy or feel regret after doing it earlier than she wanted.

 

at the same time sex comparability is critical to a relationship.  Waiting longer puts more expectation on it and thus disappointment after it.  You should never wait 6 months.  That’s too long.

 

I think the ideal time is about a month into it after you’ve seen each other about 6 times and you are having regular communication outside the dates.  Of course during thus you talk about exclusivity and bring a couple.

 

 

 

[Ami1uwant]

1 hour ago, LeoLady888 said:

I find this a rather derogatory statement.

Why blame her when there were 2 people in this 'sack', didn't you have a part to play?

 

I can see this happening where peop,e have quirks during sex thst is equivalent to chalk streaks.  They could be nasty down there

[NuevoYorko]

2 minutes ago, Lovesoul said:

 

I do not understand the concept of "what's hard to get has more value", to me that has "childhood trauma" written all over it.

Traditionally women in our culture (western, Judeo-Christian type of values) have been taught that their chastity does have value.  This is evidenced all over the place in this very thread.  Posters are espousing a belief that a woman's sexual life is something she has to be "held accountable" for.  

Plenty of women have had the experience of getting sexual with a man because they felt that a relationship was growing, only to be "ghosted" afterwards.  Who can blame someone for choosing to hold off longer if that was a hurtful experience in their past?

Also, there are women and also men, to a lesser extent. who honestly do not choose to get intimate physically with others before they have established other aspects of a relationship.  Nothing wrong with it.

My personal opinion about all of this is, if I'm interested in a woman and she needs to take her time before she may be ready to get sexual with me, for whatever reason, I am ok with that.  If I find her compelling and we are enjoying our time together, something is building etc.,  I am inspired to hang in there until the time is right for both of us.  Actually, there can be an element of excitement in it.  If the relationship doesn't progress to the point where we both want to have sex with each other at the same time, so be it.  Every time a man and woman date or whatever it does not have to lead to sex OR a serious relationship.  

 

 

 

[NuevoYorko]

6 hours ago, Lance Mannion said:

This is hilarious, it's a classic female shaming technique used against men - "Hey buddy, measure up or you're an inferior man."  LOL.

Secure men have standards and enforce them, insecure men are afraid to have standards and bend with whatever direction produces least conflict.

I'm sorry, my dude, but "if she had ONS before meeting me and I had to wait, it's a sign that she disrespects me" is a blazing signal of insecurity.

My standards are MY standards.  Yup.  I have them.

[Lovesoul]

4 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Traditionally women in our culture (western, Judeo-Christian type of values) have been taught that their chastity does have value.  This is evidenced all over the place in this very thread.  Posters are espousing a belief that a woman's sexual life is something she has to be "held accountable" for.  

Plenty of women have had the experience of getting sexual with a man because they felt that a relationship was growing, only to be "ghosted" afterwards.  Who can blame someone for choosing to hold off longer if that was a hurtful experience in their past?

Also, there are women and also men, to a lesser extent. who honestly do not choose to get intimate physically with others before they have established other aspects of a relationship.  Nothing wrong with it.

My personal opinion about all of this is, if I'm interested in a woman and she needs to take her time before she may be ready to get sexual with me, for whatever reason, I am ok with that.  If I find her compelling and we are enjoying our time together, something is building etc.,  I am inspired to hang in there until the time is right for both of us.  Actually, there can be an element of excitement in it.  If the relationship doesn't progress to the point where we both want to have sex with each other at the same time, so be it.  Every time a man and woman date or whatever it does not have to lead to sex OR a serious relationship.  

 

 

 

Both are not either right or wrong: wanting to wait to have sex or have sex early on. Or wanting a relationship or not.

What is wrong is the judgement people make on a human being because of their sexual decisions. A relationship is made of sooooo many aspects besides sex: the compatibility, the emotional connection, the mental connection, values, goals, mindset, etc. How can someone judge another only based on one aspect is beyond my comprehension. 

Women should wait to have sex if they are not sure if they want to have sex or not sure if they want a relationship with that particular man. It takes time to get to know someone. But should not have to wait in order ^to have value".

A woman's value is UNCONDITIONAL. It is with her from birth and there's nothing or anyone that can take her value away from her. If a man doesn't understand this, his loss.

[Lovesoul]

2 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

I'm sorry, my dude, but "if she had ONS before meeting me and I had to wait, it's a sign that she disrespects me" is a blazing signal of insecurity.

My standards are MY standards.  Yup.  I have them.

Maybe is a sign she doesn't find your attractive. Her ONS before you is none of your business.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Lovesoul

[NuevoYorko]

5 minutes ago, Lovesoul said:

Maybe is a sign she doesn't find your attractive. Her ONS before you is none of your business.

That's what I'm saying.  A woman's sex life has nothing to do with MY standards.  It's her personal life.

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by NuevoYorko

[Lovesoul]

3 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

That's what I'm saying.  A woman's sex life has nothing to do with MY standards.  It's her personal life.

 

Yes sorry, I mis-read your post!

[Fletch Lives]

Wow, five pages of this in only half a day. I'm not reading through all this whining.

I just suggest waiting as long as you can. It's no guarantee he won't leave but it's the best way.

Welcome to dating, the world's biggest cat-and-mouse game.

[Emilie Jolie]

It's not like it's a coin toss between a nun and a porn star.

This number thing is so perplexing I can't wrap my head around it. What value does it had to a person? Any guy I've been with could have slept with a thousand women or none - what matters is how compatible we are together. Imagine thinking you have a right to know your partner's sexual past. You don't. You have a right to your preferences, sure, but that's it.

You can ask if you want, and you'll need to accept the answer you have been given if you care about that person - or you can bolt if it's not working for you.

But nobody has a right to know. It's actually a privilege someone is bestowing upon you when they share such intimate details with you - that's how I view it anyway.

If I ever get to a point where in future while getting to know someone I'm asked point blank what my # is, I will bolt without a second glance.

Also, I've had enough 'experience' to now know when I want to be intimate with a guy, and the answer is whenever we feel the moment is right for us both. No timeline, no game playing, no thinking things through, no calculations. If it's early, it's early. If it's a one off, it's a one off, if it's 10 months down the line, etc.

What is sacred to me is the relationship itself - sex is just one of manifestation of that special bond.

And at 40+ years old, I'm not sure many still play those games.

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[poppyfields]

2 hours ago, Millennial said:

I don't believe a single human being, male or female, feminist or no, who claims that they are not the least bit interested in their other-half's sexual history.

Oh dear lordie.

With respect I suggest you open up your mind and acknowledge that not everyone in the world thinks like you and embrace our differences.

Read this thread, and others, read other forums, and listen to people on line and off.  

Not everyone is interested in their partner's sexual history.  I'm one, my fiance is another, and various posters on this thread are others.  

I and I suspect others have no skin in this game, this is an anonymous forum, there is no reason for anyone to lie about.

I fully respect that you do care about your partner's sexual history and that is your right. 

But please mate, you have no right to speak for others. 

Again, embrace our differences about this and any other topic.  To do otherwise makes you [insert word that would possibly get me banned]. 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by poppyfields

[Gaeta]

2 hours ago, Ami1uwant said:

This isn’t just the guy notching is belt but she may feel guilty or ashamed at being too easy or feel regret after doing it earlier than she wanted.

This should not exist. Who makes women feel ashamed for being normal sexual beings with desires? No one makes men feel ashamed for ONS or early sex, they actually celebrate it among themselves. People threw away religions but kept that stupid notion that women are not sexual beings with their own needs but simply virgin maries acting as baby incubators. 

[GeorgiaPeach1]

17 hours ago, Lance Mannion said:

I'm not bitter at all. I'm just dissenting from the propaganda of our times. You know one measure of progress? When you see that things are moving in the wrong direction, you stop and start marching backwards, this makes your more progressive than the others who are continuing to march in the wrong direction.

Lance, most women are not ready to accept that things have gone too far in the wrong direction--even though the consequences have bitten us in the butt.

[smackie9]

Women have to remember sex is not currency for a relationship.

[Lovesoul]

2 hours ago, Gaeta said:

This should not exist. Who makes women feel ashamed for being normal sexual beings with desires? No one makes men feel ashamed for ONS or early sex, they actually celebrate it among themselves. People threw away religions but kept that stupid notion that women are not sexual beings with their own needs but simply virgin maries acting as baby incubators. 

Absolutely! And women who feel that way should read about women empowerment and living life on their own terms [edited to remove inappropriate language]

Edited December 22, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
edited to remove inappropriate language