Women waiting for sex to avoid being used

[Miss Spider]

Just now, Lance Mannion said:

It's not a smart play to bet on people being completely irrational. Some guy wants to buy a Camaro, the price of the Mustang and Charger are about the same as the Camaro, but the dealer keeps upping the price because the guy wants the Camaro. Is the guy going to pay 3x the price of the Mustang to buy that Camaro?

Why expect a guy to invest a lot of his heart, his energy, his thoughts, his actions, in winning over a girl and waiting for months to take her to bed, when he knows that she went to bed on the first date with her 5 past boyfriends? She's already established her price, so he's being completely irrational in wanting to pay such a high price to win her.

From what I’ve seen, yeah. It’s amazing what guys would do for that Camaro.And if he won’t do it, another guy similar will. Why expect it? Because it happens all the time

[Lance Mannion]

Just now, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

From what I’ve seen, yeah. It’s amazing what guys would do for that Camaro.And if he won’t do it, another guy similar will. Why expect it? Because it happens all the time

I've seen 3 relationships blow up at the 9 months to 18 months stages when some of her girlfriends let slip about how quick she was to jump into bed with past boyfriends and the guys felt played and dumped their women. I'm not seeing the same guys you are, happy to invest in a woman who they know has given it away for free earlier in her life. Just not seeing that.

[poppyfields]

15 minutes ago, Lance Mannion said:

I've seen 3 relationships blow up at the 9 months to 18 months stages when some of her girlfriends let slip about how quick she was to jump into bed with past boyfriends and the guys felt played and dumped their women. 

Wow really?  Perhaps instead of dumping, they should have been flattered!

It's common knowledge that many woman will jump into bed faster with a man she's less interested in and hold out with the man she's more interested in.

So by waiting with their boyfriends, they were indicating their strong interest versus seeing him as some meaningless ONS, or as something casual that they didn't care if it worked out or not.

Meanwhile, their insecure boyfriends felt "played" and dumped them, good gawd!

What is up with all these insecure guys?  Like really?  SMH 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by poppyfields

[Lance Mannion]

2 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Wow really?  Perhaps instead of dumping, they should have been flattered.  

It's common knowledge that many woman will jump into bed faster with a man she's less interested in and hold out with the man she's more interested in.

So by waiting with their boyfriends, they were indicating their interest versus seeing him as some quick ONS.

Meanwhile, their insecure boyfriends felt "played" and dumped them, good gawd.

That's "women's logic" and while it may be convincing to women, it sure the hell doesn't resonate with most men, they seem to feel insulted by having to work so hard to get what she gave away for free to other men who didn't work hard at all. Why work so hard for something, or someone, who shows you how little they value themselves?

If women really are intent on showing their men how valuable they believe their man is, do something FOR the man, don't make him do something FOR YOU. This is grade-school level courtesy. "Mom and Dad, I really, really love you guys, so to show you how much I love you I'm going to allow you to buy me a trip to Europe for Christmas." LOL.

[Miss Spider]

Wow, yeah those guys sound kind of immature and insecure. (?)But if you want to see examples just look on any Internet forum. Actually, you can look no further than the 1st page of this forum. Guys clearly being played by girls who are most likely sleeping with someone else and not them, but what are they doing, they are investing more and more and more. I am guessing mostly because he finds her attractive  and a little because she’s not showing that much interest... look, dude, it makes me a little annoyed too. I hate to see those kind of injustices. Why do you think I try so hard around here

Edited December 22, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Lance Mannion]

Just now, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Wow, yeah those guys sound kind of immature and insecure. (?)But if you want to see examples just look on any Internet forum. Actually, you can look no farther than the page of this forum. Guys clearly being played by girls who are most likely sleeping with someone else and not them, but what are they doing, they are investing more and more and more. I am guessing mostly because he finds her attractive  and a little because she’s not showing that much interest... look, dude it makes me a little annoyed too. I hate to see injustices. 

Nope, they are men of high value, mature and they have high self-esteem and dignity. Only weak men allow themselves to be used and disrespected. Those men had no problem finding replacement women, because they are men who are honest and will woo a woman who is worth being wooed, you know, an honest woman who isn't playing games with her past.

[Miss Spider]

Ah I see. If that’s the case, it can be argued that they were not with very smart women if they let it “slip “knowing that they would be so harshly judged for it. A true player would never show their hand 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[poppyfields]

5 minutes ago, Lance Mannion said:

If women really are intent on showing their men how valuable they believe their man is, do something FOR the man, don't make him do something FOR YOU.

How about they both "do something" for each other?  Work hard for each other? Both put forth effort?

This is what has always "worked" for me in my relationships, a mutual give and take.

Not just the woman doing something for him, or the man doing something for her, but BOTH doing something for each other.  

The best relationships require balance, not a constant power struggle of who does more, ugh!! 

Edited December 22, 2020 by poppyfields

[Lance Mannion]

Just now, poppyfields said:

How about they both "do" for each other?  Work hard for each other? Both put forth effort?

This is what has always "worked" for me in my relationships, a mutual give and take.

Not just the woman doing, or the man doing, but BOTH doing.  

If a woman is making a man wait for her, to woo her, to earn her love, you better believe that he's doing "something for her." She though had better actually be worth the price she's claiming she's worth. He's being honest with his investment in her, she's deceiving him by misrepresenting her virtue. She gives it away to other men and then makes this guy work for it, he's going to, rightly, know that she played him for a fool. That's not her giving him any sort of gift, it's a spit in the eye.

[Lance Mannion]

4 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Ah I see. If that’s the case, it can be argued that they were not with very smart women if they let it “slip “knowing that they would be so harshly judged for it. A true player would never show their hand 

I agree that they weren't smart. They liked, or loved, these guys, they invested months of exclusivity in these men, they built something with these men, and it was all built on a foundation of her lies and they guys felt used and deceived and so the women lost those months, they suffered heartbreak, they lost those men. Not a smart play. Just be honest about who you are and your history and that's the smart play.

[Miss Spider]

Wow.:: Heartbreak that could’ve been avoided if they just didn’t talk about who they slammed before they met him.

Anyway, I think the guys also wasted their time too. They should have a better picker. Find out earlier on if they did that if that’s a uge deal breaker or at least pick a woman wise enough to not kiss and tell in an LTR,  which is like 99.9% of women . That whole argument presupposes the man sees value in a woman’s ‘virtue’. Not always the case.A lot of men do not care who a woman slept with and how fast before they met. You also have to consider a lot of  men are rather happy with what they can get... they don’t have a ton of other branches lined up in the way most women do. But even the guys who can afford to be choosey are not immune to this. They can get stuck on a particular woman too. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Lance Mannion]

2 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Wow.:: Heartbreak that could’ve been avoided if they just didn’t talk about who they slammed before they met him.

Anyway, I think the guys also wasted their time too. They should have a better picker. Find out earlier on if they did that. or at least pick a woman wise enough to not kiss and tell in an LTR,  which is like 99.9% of women . That whole argument presupposes the man sees value in a woman’s ‘virtue’. Not the case.A lot of men do not care who a woman slept with and how fast before they met. You also have to consider a lot of  men are rather happy with what they can get... they don’t have a ton of other branches lined up in the way most women do. But even the guys who can afford to be choosey are not immune to this. They can get stuck on a particular woman too. 

My understanding is that friends of the women talked. I don't know many women who engage in their sex lives, go to clubs, all alone and keep it a national secret. Loose lips, sink ships. Drunk girlfriends are excellent for spilling the secrets.

[Miss Spider]

Mmm I see. That changes things a bit. What was the reason for the ‘friend’ talking about the girl’s past sex life  to her boyfriend? Put in the boyfriend’s  position, I would seriously wonder if these women were not trying to sabotage their relationship to get with him. Some women are players like that too. You know there are some seriously rogue people out there.  Anyway, I am sorry, OP. I’m not trying to get off topic. It was  an interesting discussion.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[poppyfields]

21 minutes ago, Lance Mannion said:

If a woman is making a man wait for her, to woo her, to earn her love, you better believe that he's doing "something for her." She though had better actually be worth the price she's claiming she's worth. He's being honest with his investment in her, she's deceiving him by misrepresenting her virtue. She gives it away to other men and then makes this guy work for it, he's going to, rightly, know that she played him for a fool. That's not her giving him any sort of gift, it's a spit in the eye.

First of all, this notion that a man (or woman) has to “work” for anything, including sex, is absolutely absurd.  That is not how healthy relationships develop and intimacy achieved.

And anyone who feels that demonstrating interest by let’s say a man taking a woman out to dinner at nice restaurant (and paying) or a woman cooking a lovely dinner at home is “work” then they should NOT be dating, period.

“Doing” for our partners should give us joy, not be seen as "work."  We give from our hearts because it gives us JOY.  This is true or should be for both men and women.

Also absurd is the notion that when women have sex, she’s “giving away her virtue.”   Newsflash, women enjoy sex just as much as men, it has nothing to do with giving away her virtue.  Secure men understand this and don’t hold her to a standard they themselves don’t follow.

I have never required a man to “earn my love” in my entire life and NEVER would.  Nor have any of my boyfriends, including my current fiancé, required me to "earn his love."

Lance Mannion you are new here but what is your story?  You sound bitter, did a woman you care about jerk you around? 

Serious question.

Edited December 22, 2020 by poppyfields

[Lance Mannion]

4 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Mmm I see. That changes things a bit. What was the reason for the ‘friend’ talking about the girl’s past sex life  to her boyfriend? Put in the boyfriend’s  position, I would seriously wonder if these women were not trying to sabotage their relationship to get with him. Some women are players like that too. You know there are some seriously rogue people out there.  Anyway, I am sorry, OP. I’m not trying to get off topic. It was  an interesting discussion.

I'm not privy to all of the details. These were events which happened over the span of a decade or so,  not yesterday. Look, for everyone, it's tough to keep secrets about yourself hidden from the person you love, you have to always be on guard, you have to recruit everyone else who knows your secret to be JUST AS paranoid as you are about lying to your SO and keeping the secret. That's a tough path to walk, the secret will eventually be revealed.

[Lance Mannion]

5 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

First of all, this notion that a man (or woman) has to “work” for anything, including sex is, absolutely absurd.  That is not how healthy relationships develop and intimacy achieved.

And anyone who feels that demonstrating interest by let’s say a man taking a woman out to dinner at nice restaurant (and paying) or a woman cooking a lovely dinner at home is “work” then they should NOT be dating, period.

“Doing” for our partners should give us joy, not be seen as work.  We give from our hearts because it gives us JOY.  This is true or should be for both men and women.

Also absurd is the notion that when women have sex, she’s “giving away her virtue.”   Newsflash, women enjoy sex just as much as men, it has nothing to do with giving away her virtue.  Secure men understand this and don’t hold her to a standard they themselves don’t follow.

I have never required a man to “earn my love” in my entire life and NEVER would.

Lance Mannion you are new here but what is your story?  You sound bitter, did a woman you care about jerk you around? 

I'm not bitter at all. I'm just dissenting from the propaganda of our times. You know one measure of progress? When you see that things are moving in the wrong direction, you stop and start marching backwards, this makes your more progressive than the others who are continuing to march in the wrong direction.

[Miss Spider]

I want to say for clarity that I do not condone lying to/“playing people/partners at all, I am just pointing out the obvious fact that it does happen and that people should anticipate it at least to some extent. However, I don’t think a woman not saying anything about how soon she had sex with the last guy she dated before her partner is even lying. She may not think it is significant enough to discuss unless he brings it up that it is important to him, because a lot of men do not care to know this information

Edited December 22, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[poppyfields]

Just now, Lance Mannion said:

I'm not bitter at all. I'm just dissenting from the propaganda of our times. You know one measure of progress? When you see that things are moving in the wrong direction, you stop and start marching backwards, this makes your more progressive than the others who are continuing to march in the wrong direction.

First off, that's a strawman argument to what I just posted.  Second, that's quite a negative spin, one I do not wish to entertain, so I am done here. 

All the best.

[Lance Mannion]

2 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

I want to stay for clarity that I do not condone lying to/“playing people/partners at all, I am just pointing out the obvious fact that it does happen and that people should anticipate it at least to some extent. However, I don’t think a woman not saying anything about how soon she had sex with the last guy she dated before her partner is even lying. She may not think it is significant enough to discuss unless he brings it up that it is important to him, because a lot of men do not care to know this information

There are different ways of being truthful. You can be truthful in word or, if you don't want to openly acknowledge the "truth" then you can be truthful in deed, so if the "truth" is ever revealed, then your deeds are in line with the truth, not at odds with the truth, construed as lies.

This means if the woman has a history of ONS, then be truthful in deed, and don't make the guy who is a "keeper" wait to go to bed, making him earn your love and affection. If the "truth" comes out later, he sees that you treated him truthfully, you went to bed with him on the first night of your great romance. All is good. She didn't need to reveal her whole history, she was simply truthful in deed, or to put it another way, she presented herself as she truly was.

[poppyfields]

8 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

However, I don’t think a woman not saying anything about how soon she had sex with the last guy she dated before her partner is even lying. She may not think it is significant enough to discuss unless he brings it up that it is important to him, because a lot of men do not care to know this information

None of my boyfriends have EVER asked me this question.  Never.  Why because it's NOT important.  The only men it's important to are men with egos the size of a small planet, who hold double standards, and may not even like women all that much.  They certainly don't trust them.

It makes zero sense to discuss, it's irrelevant.  What IS relevant is what's happening between them, NOT what they did or didn't do with past partners.

Edited December 22, 2020 by poppyfields

[Lance Mannion]

1 minute ago, poppyfields said:

None of my boyfriend have EVER asked me this question.  Never.  Why because it's NOT important.  The only men it's important to are men with egos the size of a small planet, who hold double standards, and jmo but may not even like women all that much.

But it's not your place to decide what is important to men, just as it's not their place to decide for you what is important for you to know about them.

[Miss Spider]

22 minutes ago, Lance Mannion said:

I'm not bitter at all. I'm just dissenting from the propaganda of our times. You know one measure of progress? When you see that things are moving in the wrong direction, you stop and start marching backwards, this makes your more progressive than the others who are continuing to march in the wrong direction.

I don’t see you as bitter. But you do seem to care more about this point about women having ONS with guys and then holding out/making other guys invest than most dudes.
 

But I guess that phenomenon makes sense. If the guy isn’t a Chad/Tyrone good looking/evokes sexual thoughts  immediately, she is going to be looking for something else in him if she’s looking at him. Most likely stability, personality match, and/ or a provider /commitment type deal. Sex won’t matter AS much in that case... and she is probably operating on beliefs on how he will view her and therefore likelihood of committing to her,  as seen in this thread, so to her... it makes more sense to ‘wait’ 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Miss Spider]

3 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

None of my boyfriend have EVER asked me this question.  Never.  Why because it's NOT important.  The only men it's important to are men with egos the size of a small planet, who hold double standards, and may not even like women all that much.  They certainly don't trust them.

It makes zero sense to discuss, it's irrelevant.  What IS relevant is what's happening between the two people involved, NOT what they did or didn't do with past partners.

It would certainly be very weird. If would weird enough to hear “so how many guys have you slept with before me?” But could you imagine hearing, “how soon, as in days or weeks did you sleep with the last guys you dated?” That’s bold AF

Edited December 22, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Lance Mannion]

1 minute ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

I don’t see you as bitter. But you do seem to care more about this point about women having ONS with guys and then holding out/making other guys invest. But I guess that phenomenon makes sense. If the guy isn’t a Chad/Tyrone good looking/invokes sexual thoughts  immediately, she is going to be looking for something else in him. Most likely stability, personality match, and/ or a provider /commitment type deal. Sex won’t matter as much in that case. That is why I think you see women will date down looks wise when they are looking for a relationship with a man. 

For those interested, I revealed part of my story in my first few comments. As to why I'm interested, that's the topic which evolved here. Secondly, I think there is a divergence taking place with the propaganda being pushed on woman and the real life consequences which play out, leading to all of this "Where have all of the good men gone" moaning. I think that's worth talking about.

[poppyfields]

3 minutes ago, Lance Mannion said:

There are different ways of being truthful. You can be truthful in word or, if you don't want to openly acknowledge the "truth" then you can be truthful in deed, so if the "truth" is ever revealed, then your deeds are in line with the truth, not at odds with the truth, construed as lies.

This means if the woman has a history of ONS, then be truthful in deed, and don't make the guy who is a "keeper" wait to go to bed, making him earn your love and affection. If the "truth" comes out later, he sees that you treated him truthfully, you went to bed with him on the first night of your great romance. All is good. She didn't need to reveal her whole history, she was simply truthful in deed, or to put it another way, she presented herself as she truly was.

Every couple has a different dynamic, meaning the way I behaved with one partner, may not be the way I behave with another.  It has no relevance to my feelings or my intentions.  It's also not about keeping secrets or hiding anything, it's simply not relevant to the current atmosphere I share with my partner. 

We all learn and grow from one relationship to the next.   Mistakes we made in the past, like say having sex too soon or with many men (for women), we learn from, so as to not make those mistakes again.  Not that I believe having sex too soon is even a mistake, I do not. I am simply using that as an example since it seems to be an issue with you LM.

This notion that a woman is "playing" her current partner because she failed to own past transgressions or mistakes, I simply cannot relate to.  I feel sorry for people who feel that way, because we all have done things we might feel ashamed for, and to have our partner(s) judge us and hold that against us and actually dump us, speaks more to them and their overly judgmental attitude and insecurity than to their partner not owning their past mistakes.

Sad really.