Women waiting for sex to avoid being used

[poppyfields]

13 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

The easiest way to screen out the ones who just want sex is to wait. Also, men value more what they have to work harder to get.

Not always though.  I have told this story before but a friend of mine waited six months to have sex with her boyfriend, and he dumped her shortly thereafter.

My take is have it earlier, assuming you both want to, this way should he dump afterwards, you won't be so invested.

My girlfriend was six months invested when she got dumped and was absolutely devastated. 

It's a fallacy that men will leave after early sex.  Categorically not true and I speak from experience when saying that.

However, the bolded, this is true!  But "working harder" doesn't always mean work harder for sex. 

A woman can have early sex, but still be (not play) a bit hard to get requiring a man to "work harder."

Edited December 22, 2020 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

3 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Yeah, it's never happened to me. But if a woman wants something real, in general she's better off waiting. 

How long should she wait though, and why?  Many men will feel manipulated when a woman intentionally waits.  Especially when it’s obvious she’s extremely attracted and wants to have sex.

I dunno, we could argue the merits of waiting versus not waiting until the end of time, we still won’t resolve the issue.

It’s just too subjective a topic to say definitively what “works.”  My attitude has always been follow your own intuition, do what you feel comfortable doing, and let chips fall where they may.

It’s all a risk no matter how we look at it.

[Lance Mannion]

24 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

The easiest way to screen out the ones who just want sex is to wait. Also, men value more what they have to work harder to get.

Few things piss off men more than a woman who makes him wait a prolonged period for sex and then he finds out that she hand ONS with other guys or slept with other guys in the first few dates. I've known guys who've bailed after they found that out, a massive show of disrespect to the man from a woman who claimed she valued him. Other guys get for free, of with little work, what he had to work very hard for, to show her how much he loved her.

The best strategy for women is to never have ONS and to always make their men wait for it, but for those who've already had a history of ONS, don't ever make guys you like wait for it because it has a chance of blowing up everything months/years later when he learns of the disrespect towards him.

[Miss Spider]

Yeah, it’s super interesting to me. I have heard women say that a lot. “ I  really liked him, so I wanted to wait... “.A lot of times, women will only sleep with the guys that they don’t see relationship potential with on the first date or so 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Lance Mannion]

17 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

It's a fallacy that men will leave after early sex.  Categorically not true and I speak from experience when saying that.

100% agree. Just be who you are. If you're a woman with a history of ONS and early sex, just be yourself, don't pretend to be something you're not, just like guys shouldn't be PUA and act assured and dominant, by playacting, and then reveal themselves as insecure and meek.

[Lance Mannion]

Just now, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Yeah, it’s super interesting to me. I have heard women say that a lot. “ I  really liked him, so I wanted to wait... “ I don’t completely understand the logic. A lot of times, women will only sleep with the guys that they don’t see relationship potential with on the first date or so 

I understand it completely, they want to paint a portrait of themselves as women who don't sleep around. For the fun-boys, they don't care how they look, but for the guys who are seen as keepers, they women do care how they come across. This very dynamic plays out in affairs too, with her husband she is very vanilla, but with her lover she is a wild woman. Um, the husband wanted that wild woman in his bed, really, really wanted her.

[Miss Spider]

2 minutes ago, Lance Mannion said:

I understand it completely, they want to paint a portrait of themselves as women who don't sleep around. For the fun-boys, they don't care how they look, but for the guys who are seen as keepers, they women do care how they come across. This very dynamic plays out in affairs too, with her husband she is very vanilla, but with her lover she is a wild woman. Um, the husband wanted that wild woman in his bed, really, really wanted her.

Yes, sorry I corrected to say that I do understand it but I think it’s faulty/I do not agree with it. I do think that it does serve a woman to get to know them in little bit better before they sleep with them if they are looking for long term.  I agree with Ruby on that. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Ruby Slippers]

8 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I dunno, we could argue the merits of waiting versus not waiting until the end of time, we still won’t resolve the issue.

Agreed. I'm not going to argue about it and feel no need to justify my stance. In my experience, it's always a good idea for a woman to take her time. In our pornified world, a lot of men think they're entitled to have sex handed out like candy - but they're not. I think a lot of problems and messes in the dating world would be cleaned up if women were more cautious and discerning. 

[Miss Spider]

Handed out like candy implies that the women that sleep with the men are not getting anything out of it. I disagree with that. If it doesn’t work, then the manipulation strategy didn’t didn’t work. Otherwise, I think the best way to have sex with someone is do it because you want to at the time. Because you are attracted to them and you’re interested in them. Not because you think you are  going to get a consolation prize of their everlasting love . 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Lance Mannion]

Just now, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Yes, sorry I corrected to say that I do understand it but I do not agree with it. I do think that it does serve a woman to get to know them in little bit better before they sleep with them. My personal opinion that I agree with Ruby on that. 

Women did this to themselves. It's sad. Back in the day when shaming was practiced and loose women were ostracized and women tried to hold on to their virtue, a boyfriend who pushed too much was shut down, the woman had the power to control the pacing. What was the guy going to do? Leave her? And go where, and to whom? Another woman who also controlled the pacing. That all changed when more women were up for the fun, now the pressure is on the women who want to take it slow, either they let the boyfriend control the pacing or the boyfriend finds a woman who is up for fun.

It's a race to the lowest common denominator.

Totally agree that it serves a woman, and a man too, to get to know each other before hopping in the sack, but we're talking two different games here - some people just date to have "intimate exercise" and others are looking for relationships but they're both drawing from the same pool of players.

[Miss Spider]

As a woman, I don’t miss “those days” at all, personally. 

[Lance Mannion]

2 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Handed out like candy implies that the women that sleep with the men are not getting anything out of it. I disagree with that. If it doesn’t work, then the manipulation strategy didn’t didn’t work. Otherwise, I think the best way to have sex with someone is do it because you want to at the time. Because you are attracted to them and you’re interested in them. Not because you think you were going to get a consolation prize of their everlasting love 

What we see on college campuses is a whole lot of women upset the next morning and very rarely is a guy upset that he had sex with a woman the previous night. Why is this? Because the women are investing something, many of them, they have an expectation of behavior for the next morning and following days and the dude doesn't follow through.

I see the same playing out in the real world, except that many women are now more jaded from having been burned earlier in life.

[Miss Spider]

Just now, Lance Mannion said:

What we see on college campuses is a whole lot of women upset the next morning and very rarely is a guy upset that he had sex with a woman the previous night. Why is this? Because the women are investing something, many of them, they have an expectation of behavior for the next morning and following days and the dude doesn't follow through.

I see the same playing out in the real world, except that many women are now more jaded from having been burned earlier in life.

True, because women have general are a bit shamed  sexual promiscuity or at the very least not given a pat on the back like with guys. If you stick around the forums long enough, you will see the other way around a lot too. A guy complaining the girl just wanted sex.   Like I said from the very beginning, I think these people are ignoring obvious tone in their situation and their overall relationship with the person. They are only trying to see what they want to see. 

[Miss Spider]

1 minute ago, Ruby Slippers said:

A man has never stopped dating me because I didn't have sex fast enough.

Yep. This never happens ... if a guy walks away he just isn’t interested in the woman. However, I don’t think I’d be too surprised how long a guy will stick around and what he would do  *just to sleep with her* . Time is  prob not the best unit of measurement one should use ...  

[Lance Mannion]

2 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

True, because women have general are a bit shamed  sexual promiscuity or at the very least not given a pat on the back like with guys. If you stick around the forums long enough, you will see the other way around a lot too. A guy complaining the girl just wanted sex.   Like I said from the very beginning, I think these people are ignoring obvious tone in their situation and their overall relationship with the person. They are only trying to see what they want to see. 

Shaming is a tactic, it's a tactic used to modify the target's behavior. We use shaming for all sorts of ills, like racism for instance, same with Covid issues. If women want some form of "collective" control of sexuality, then they need to enforce behavioral standards on other women. That's how it goes.

[Miss Spider]

5 minutes ago, Lance Mannion said:

If women want some form of "collective" control of sexuality, then they need to enforce behavioral standards on other women. That's how it goes.

Could you elaborate a little?  I’m not sure if I entirely understand. 
 

I have never associated with other women having casual sex as having any impact on me and my relationships or my sex love . It’s a fact that other women have casual sex and always have, albeit within their limitations

I have dated numerous men who had women throwing themselves at them for sex. 
But they didn’t want that at the time, they wanted a relationship with me. That had nothing to do with whatever sex other women were having or not having. 

I might be totally off the mark about what you mean

Edited December 22, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Lance Mannion]

11 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

A man has never stopped dating me because I didn't have sex fast enough. Men will wait if they feel the woman is worth it. And if he doesn't think you're worth it, you're better off without him. 

This is not where the trouble is though. They guy does think you're worth it, he does invest in you (not picking on you in particular, just talking about generic women) and you're happy with how things are. Then he finds out that he "mispriced" you, what he thought you were worth is not actually what you are worth because you let others guys into your bed much more quickly than you allowed him in, now you're vastly over-priced and he's upset that he got played and he bolts. You've now invested in him and are upset at your lost investment.

[Lance Mannion]

2 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean? I’m not sure if I entirely understand. 
 

When women had stricter control of access to sex it was because the vast majority of women were not eager to rush, they controlled the pacing and so men had no other options but to comply. Collective action. It's like labor unions, if all of the workers are united, then management needs to bend, but if there is no collective labor movement, and all workers are free to negotiate on their own terms, then the laborers who want the high wages are out of luck, there are always other people out there who will undercut the high wage folks.

Think of women who want to control the pacing of sex as "high wage workers" and the women who are eager to jump into bed as the "folks who undercut the high wage workers."

 

 

[Miss Spider]

5 minutes ago, Lance Mannion said:

This is not where the trouble is though. They guy does think you're worth it, he does invest in you (not picking on you in particular, just talking about generic women) and you're happy with how things are. Then he finds out that he "mispriced" you, what he thought you were worth is not actually what you are worth because you let others guys into your bed much more quickly than you allowed him in, now you're vastly over-priced and he's upset that he got played and he bolts. You've now invested in him and are upset at your lost investment.

It is possible this guy who puts some of her value on whether or not she slept with another guy(s) faster will never know.  Not to mention, a lot of guys do not even care or put no value on that at all. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[poppyfields]

28 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

A man has never stopped dating me because I didn't have sex fast enough. Men will wait if they feel the woman is worth it. And if he doesn't think you're worth it, you're better off without him. 

I think that is true!

But keep in mind there are men who will wait believing a woman is worth the wait, but then after sex, he doesn't believe her to be quite so "worth it" anymore.  

It happened to my friend and plenty of other women, it does happen.

That's all I'm saying.  

Edited December 22, 2020 by poppyfields

[Lance Mannion]

1 minute ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

It is possible this guy who puts some of her value on whether or not she slept with another guy(s) faster will never know.  Not to mention, a lot of guys do not even care or put no value on that at all. 

Now the woman is lying by omission and keeping secrets. Her call. Bad strategy if you ask me, she's going to be investing years into this man and the entire relationship gets rewritten when he finds out he's been played and lied to. The success of that relationship now depends on the women keeping her past secret. Just own your past. Don't insult the guy by making him wait when you've had other men and not made them wait.

[Miss Spider]

Just now, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

So it is possible this guy who puts some of her value on whether or not she slept with another guy(s) faster will never know.  Not to mention, a lot of guys do not even care. 

 

1 minute ago, Lance Mannion said:

When women had stricter control of access to sex it was because the vast majority of women were not eager to rush, they controlled the pacing and so men had no other options but to comply. Collective action. It's like labor unions, if all of the workers are united, then management needs to bend, but if there is no collective labor movement, and all workers are free to negotiate on their own terms, then the laborers who want the high wages are out of luck, there are always other people out there who will undercut the high wage folks.

Think of women who want to control the pacing of sex as "high wage workers" and the women who are eager to jump into bed as the "folks who undercut the high wage workers."

 

 

Hm, okay then I did understand. I just disagree with the argument and analogy, again. I don’t think the ‘market’ is that controllable. There are too many variables. For example, the guy puts value on certain characteristics of one woman or the man is desperate for things that come with a monogamous relationship etc etc. . The woman can pace the sex in that case. I guess to use your analogy, she can increase the price of her goods because he wants those particular goods. 

[Lance Mannion]

4 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

 Not to mention, a lot of guys do not even care or put no value on that at all. 

Agree 100%. Lots of guys don't care. Guys will marry porn stars, but when they marry porn stars they want a porn star in their bedroom. A woman very experienced at sex can get men to marry her, no problem, but the guy knows what he is committing to and that's WHY he is committing, he wants her past to be a benefit to him.

[Miss Spider]

8 minutes ago, Lance Mannion said:

Now the woman is lying by omission and keeping secrets. Her call. Bad strategy if you ask me, she's going to be investing years into this man and the entire relationship gets rewritten when he finds out he's been played and lied to. The success of that relationship now depends on the women keeping her past secret. Just own your past. Don't insult the guy by making him wait when you've had other men and not made them wait.

It’s a strategy that many women use.  We can call it bad or whatever. But like in the case of a “player in “don’t hate the player, hate the game. It’s working for them. Plenty of women have had crazy mfmm threesomes with hookups in the past, yet don’t have sex with their now husbands and are writing about it on the internet 

 

Some women are good players. I think people just need to wise up and look for other signs.JMO Sorry, my voice to text is making it difficult to make sense 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Lance Mannion]

1 minute ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

I guess to use your analogy, she can increase the price of her goods because he wants those particular goods. 

It's not a smart play to bet on people being completely irrational. Some guy wants to buy a Camaro, the price of the Mustang and Charger are about the same as the Camaro, but the dealer keeps upping the price because the guy wants the Camaro. Is the guy going to pay 3x the price of the Mustang to buy that Camaro?

Why expect a guy to invest a lot of his heart, his energy, his thoughts, his actions, in winning over a girl and waiting for months to take her to bed, when he knows that she went to bed on the first date with her 5 past boyfriends? She's already established her price, so he's being completely irrational in wanting to pay such a high price to win her.