Dating a very attractive girl but I'm worried she's not my type

[amygirl908]

28 minutes ago, zincmagnesium8 said:

Yes she wants to continue to see me. She even messaged me afterwards saying that she had a really great time, but apologized for her forwardness!

I have to say that we have very different interests and hobbies. I don't know if that feeds into it as well. She's into different music, she's not a big fan of watching movies (I love them), she's an outdoors type (I'm more of a restaurant and bar guy). I do find it very interesting to be exposed to a different lifestyle and interests and might help me grow as a person. I always hear that you need to have something in common, but then they say opposites attract so I don't know what to believe!

We definitely have a lot of the same core values as far as I can tell. Maybe that's the most important thing.

I know what you're saying but there are couples who have known each other for a while before actually dating and there was no initial attraction per se. Up until now I've based all my dates largely off looks and it hasn't proven successful yet!

Basic attraction for sure has to be there, but a relationship based on looks alone will never work. It seems like you're attracted to her, you are enjoying getting to know each other and your hang up is on your differences rather than exploring the connection for what it could be. If I'm wrong totally call me out.

You don't have to be into all of the same things as your partner. Your partner might introduce you to things you never knew you liked. An ex of mine was not into the outdoors when we were together, we went on a few hikes and he enjoyed himself... now, oh my gosh he's the biggest outdoors person I know and he introduced me to music I never thought I'd like and I love it. Now I'm not saying it has to be that extreme but getting out of your comfort zone and trying new things together can be really great.

There's no rush or reason that I can see to call it one way or another IMO. If it was me I'd keep spending time together and see where it goes.

[Lance Mannion]

5 hours ago, zincmagnesium8 said:

I get that, but can attraction not develop over time? I do find myself only going on one or two dates with girls and then giving up because I'm not falling head over heels for them. I'm trying to take a better approach to dating but I'm not sure if this is the right way!

Should there always be an initial insatiable sexual attraction?

Yes, attraction can develop over time, this is the process which enables friends to suddenly get hot for each other and get together as a couple. Somewhere in that friend period, something kicks off in their brains/hearts and they jump each other.

What you're talking about with your past experiences is brain-chemical chemistry. Lots of people act on this begin relationships and after the infatuation fades they're looking at their partner like they would a stranger - "Who is this person? I feel nothing like love for them. How did I get here?"

One effect can be caused by multiple factors. You don't feel attraction. What does that mean? If you have a mental block about your own self-worth in relation to this very attractive woman, this could be the self-defense mechanism kicking in to protect your heart from being broken, a form of preemptive dumping. It could be simple lack of chemistry. It could be DELAYED chemistry, sometimes that chemistry kicks in later, maybe you gaze into her eyes and the way she looks at you in that dreamy-sexy way kicks off something in your brain, the chemistry floods you and now, suddenly, you have a hunger for her. Maybe the chemistry kicks in when you see her sprawled on the bed and desiring you. Maybe the chemistry never arrives.

I'm a big fan of chemistry, but not a big fan of "head over heels in love" type of chemistry. I find the former necessary to keep love alive, I find the latter to be fleeting and, ultimately, misleading. With the latter being misleading, I see to many people chasing imaginary dragons, always searching for that feeling and switching off to new partners in a neverending search for having that feeling be sustained over time.

2 hours ago, zincmagnesium8 said:

I don't know if I'm over analyzing it or not. Before this I would've just ended things but people have told me I'm too quick to jump to ending things and that I should give it a chance.

I've enjoyed the dates we've had so far and would like to give it a chance, as long as it makes sense. I don't want to waste her time either.

I did have this moment when we were fooling around that I was conscious that things weren't happening downstairs (don't want to get too descriptive!) and then my mind started focusing on it and then it really wasn't happening because I was wondering what was wrong. Once my mind let go things went back to normal, but as a "red blooded male" I was just confused as to why it was happening to me with this very attractive woman. Maybe the pressure of the situation got to me. I don't normally date girls that are that sexually forward! 

This sounds like a mild, or preemptive, version of performance anxiety and that's a depressive cycle to get yourself into. This leads me to suspect that you're doing this to yourself, with some form of mental block.

She's into you. Let that feed your ego, let that wash over you, enjoy it, play it up, feed that ego. This hot chick is really into you, you must be something else for a woman with that many options to want you. If you have some block, this type of thinking will be a confrontation event, the block is trying to protect you, this thinking is a challenge to the mental block.

Next think about how proud you are to have such a hot woman on your arm, so into you. How proud you are walking down the street, admired by all. Feed that ego. This then becomes a test to see whether you have a block or whether there really is no brain chemistry at all. If there is no chemistry, then this feeding the ego business should have no effect, it's like no matter how much you lie to yourself, you're never going to be interested in a x-type of woman.

As for her being different, explore that, you bring her into your world, she shows you her world. See how that goes. Judge the "relationship" quality which develops. There might be some trigger there which launches that chemistry.

[Miss Spider]

Try it then, since you seem intent on it. But also understand that you are not the only person whose feelings on this matters. The girl you are dating also has time/energy that is valuable to her as well. Make sure that she knows that you want to take it slow. That may impact her decision to date you. Not everyone wants to date someone who feels ‘meh’ about them romantically/sexually in hopes that they will “grow on them“ or even settle for them. I know I wouldn’t. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Emilie Jolie]

46 minutes ago, zincmagnesium8 said:

She's into different music, she's not a big fan of watching movies (I love them), she's an outdoors type (I'm more of a restaurant and bar guy).

Sounds eerily like the story of a friend of mine - not a happy ending for them - sorry! Not because of the interests things - turns out they were on different paths. This is probably a complete coincidence, though...

For you here, looks like you're wanting to change how you normally handle your dates, which makes sense, as they say that's what you need to do to yield different results. 

55 minutes ago, zincmagnesium8 said:

 

Yes she wants to continue to see me. She even messaged me afterwards saying that she had a really great time, but apologized for her forwardness!

Nice touch. 

Now all you need to do is plan that 4th date, if you want to see her again too. 

Let us know how it goes, OP!

 

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, zincmagnesium8 said:

I know what you're saying but there are couples who have known each other for a while before actually dating and there was no initial attraction per se. Up until now I've based all my dates largely off looks and it hasn't proven successful yet!

Genuine chemistry, that "spark" that somethin somethin that makes one person unique and special over another goes beyond looks and simply finding them attractive or beautiful.

That's what is meant by being "attracted to" them versus merely finding them attractive on the outside.  

I'm going to guess you have never felt that immediate click with a woman?  Which is typically mutual?  

If not, I understand your confusion!

It's not about sharing core values or having tons in common, that comes after the initial attraction.  

It's not what creates it.  

You cannot force yourself to be "attracted to" a woman by continuing to go out with her.

Attraction to another person is intangible, it's either there or it's not. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by poppyfields

[Miss Spider]

Some people do, poppy. I have seen it with friends and heard about it on forums. People who initially did not feel a spark with someone that had it come later on out of presumably nowhere. Or it was more that they skipped the spark but still fell in love with the person. I don’t know but it does happen. Now I guess it can be argued if this this is a matter of settling or convincing yourself of something, rather than really feeling it, but they say they really feel it and they didn’t right away 

[Lotsgoingon]

I think the key to that growing attraction over time is that it occurs without people willing it. The OP would be trying to will that attraction. That's what never seems to work.

But yeah, there are people we meet .... don't feel any spark ... but over time, we relax and they relax and you start to share more things with them--which is fun because you aren't trying to like them or impress them. Over time, you feel more of a bond with this person ... and they begin to look nicer and more interesting and then boom! ... Actually, I'm don't think the person begins to look nicer--they just begin to get a lot more sexy to us.

But again, not willful. The OP is asking if there is some way he could coax the feeling of attraction to come alive. That is the elusive formula. 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Lotsgoingon

[poppyfields]

32 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Some people do, poppy. I have seen it with friends and heard about it on forums. People who initially did not feel a spark with someone that had it come later on out of presumably nowhere. Or it was more that they skipped the spark but still fell in love with the person. I don’t know but it does happen. Now I guess it can be argued if this this is a matter of settling or convincing yourself of something, rather than really feeling it, but they say they really feel it and they didn’t right away 

I suppose anything can happen shortskirts, especially when it's a mutual friendship and it organically leads to an attraction and deeper feelings for both.  

That actually happened with my second boyfriend, we were friends for one year. Then dated for four years and got engaged.

But in retrospect, I think we developed a fondness and mutual admiration for each other that we both interpreted as attraction and romantic love (based on the fact we were man and woman), but it wasn't. 

But yeah, everyone's different, there are no rules about this stuff.

Edited December 21, 2020 by poppyfields

[Lance Mannion]

8 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

I think the key to that growing attraction over time is that it occurs without people willing it. The OP would be trying to will that attraction. That's what never seems to work.

But yeah, there are people we meet .... don't feel any spark ... but over time, we relax and they relax and you start to share more things with them--which is fun because you aren't trying to like them or impress them. Over time, you feel more of a bond with this person ... and they begin to look nicer and more interesting and then boom! ... Actually, I'm don't think the person begins to look nicer--they just begin to get a lot more sexy to us.

But again, not willful. The OP is asking if there is some way he could coax the feeling of attraction to come alive. That is the elusive formula. 

 

Take a person with neutral feelings and put them into the OP's situation and I agree the willing of feelings is a problem. However, if he is intimidated by her beauty, wondering "What is she seeing in me?" then he's not in a neutral position, no more than some of those Hallmark heroines who meet a Prince or are starstruck by some handsome and famous movie heartthrob and she's a plain, mousey, librarian. She's confused and not feeling it because she's either in awe of him or intimidated or worried that he's just using her. Something is gnawing at her psyche and that's blocking the underlying feelings.

This is the question I'm asking - is he in a neutral state or is there something going on which is blocking that attraction.

[Miss Spider]

13 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I suppose anything can happen shortskirts, especially when it's a mutual friendship and it organically leads to an attraction and deeper feelings for both.  

That actually happened with my second boyfriend, we were friends for one year. Then dated for four years and got engaged.

But in retrospect, I think we developed a fondness and mutual admiration for each other that we both interpreted as attraction and romantic love (based on the fact we were man and woman), but it wasn't. 

But yeah, everyone's different, there are no rules about this stuff.

Yeah it’s crazy about that but I have seen and heard the same thing. Anything is possible. Actually, on another forum this girl was talking about how she was not really into this guy she just started dating and wonderingj if she should keep trying. 
 

However, just yesterday she is talking about how she is now really into the guy/attracted to him. But he is actually the one that is pulling away and has a new problem.  Lol. Isn’t that ‘bout a btch. It’s interesting.
 

I’ve never had that happen to me. I, like you, have mostly always known right off the bat. But I guess I should say I also have the luxury to not have to wait around and find out anyway . I just date someone that I like

[Emilie Jolie]

There's always a 'je ne sais quoi' that draws you to someone initially, I think - not a 'spark' necessarily, but some sort of vibe that makes you want to get to know the person better, without you knowing why. It's not always physical either; it's just this mysterious thing. When the thing is mutual, genuine and effortless is when you know you have something cool going on. Sometimes it takes years (When Harry Met Sally), sometimes it's instant, sometimes it's just a friendship but yeah when you share this with someone, that's got to be pretty special. Most of us have experienced something like that to some extent with our very close friends, minus the physical attraction, obviously. 

5 minutes ago, Lance Mannion said:

is he in a neutral state or is there something going on which is blocking that attraction.

I'm wondering the same thing. I feel like there might be a little something going on between our OP and his lady friend here but more time might be needed for them to investigate further. Equally, nobody on earth is so 'attractive' so as to make someone else question themselves, so it might also be a good guy trying to find a classy way of explaining why the attraction isn't there (it's not her, it's me kind of thing).

 

[Lance Mannion]

6 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Yeah it’s crazy about that but I have seen and heard the same thing. Anything is possible. Actually, on another forum this girl was talking about how she was not really into this guy she just started dating and wonderingj if she should keep trying. 

However, just yesterday she is talking about how she is now really into the guy/attracted to him. But he is actually the one that is pulling away and has a new problem.  Lol. Isn’t that ‘bout a btch. It’s interesting.
 

I’ve never had that happen to me. I, like you, have mostly always known right off the bat. But I guess I should say I also have the luxury to not have to wait around and find out anyway . I just date someone that I like

Sometimes guys gamble and play the long game, so they resign themselves to orbit a girl in her friend zone. Some of these guys are just pathetic and want a scrap of her attention, but other guys invest time in the hopes that they are situated to be there when the time is opportune, hoping that if the stars all align, that her feelings for him will spark. Sometimes that long gamble pays off, but not frequently.

As for the girl in your story, he's pulling away, now she's chasing. Classic.

[poppyfields]

27 minutes ago, Lance Mannion said:

As for the girl in your story, he's pulling away, now she's chasing. Classic.

Is that genuine chemistry/attraction though? I cannot speak for her, but  it sounds like she's attracted to the "challenge" he presents now that he's pulled away and stopped chasing more than she's attracted to "him."

I've seen that happen to.  To both men and women. 

Once the person they've been chasing starts showing strong interest, the person chasing suddenly loses interest.

[Miss Spider]

Yes. Very good point poppy. Just to be clear though, in the situation I am talking about, she became interested in/attracted to him and they started dating for a while and things were going good. Then he started to pull away.. She talked about these things as they were two different incidents.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[spiderowl]

If she were not beautiful to most men, OP, would you have bothered to date her? If not, why not? I am trying to take beauty out of the equation here to see what you feel is left.

It can take time to feel a bond with someone. It could be you are not giving anyone sufficient time to start to feel that bond.  If you feel in your heart of hearts that she is not the one for you, then it would be kinder to her to opt out before she gets attached. If you are interested in her and enjoy spending time with her, then maybe give it a bit more time.

I suspect she turned off the sexual attraction in you by being the pursuer herself. If you are to ‘desire’ a girl, then she needs to be tantalisingly out of reach. This girl just liked you a lot and probably assumed that because most men find her attractive, you would be eager too. My guess is that if she decided she felt rejected and dumped you now, you would suddenly start to miss her and desire her.

It may be that things will go that way, which would be a shame. It sounds like a situation where neither of you know where you are going wrong and may be likely to make the same mistakes. 

[Lance Mannion]

21 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Is that genuine chemistry/attraction though? I cannot speak for her, but  it sounds like she's attracted to the "challenge" he presents now that he's pulled away and stopped chasing more than she's attracted to "him."

I've seen that happen to.  To both men and women. 

Once the person they've been chasing starts showing strong interest, the person chasing suddenly loses interest.

Your opening question is enough to launch book-length discussions about the nature of chemistry and what constitutes genuine chemistry, as though this is actually a real thing.

Chemistry is simply a release of brain chemicals. Why there is release with some people and not others has to do with neurons firing because they recognize some pattern or some past experience and a linkage forms.

If all you need for chemistry is the right release of chemicals and the right linkages, then they can be manufactured by circumstance. You can have naturally good long distance runners and you can train some folks to become good long distance runners. Pick-up artists. A dude can be naturally charismatic and get the attention of women and other dudes can be trained to get the attention of women. This last example tees up the problem, sustaining the attention, because the pick-up techniques mask the real man. What happens though if the real man is transformed by the techniques?

So with that pull-away and chase example, what happens if that becomes a long running dynamic of that couple? What happens if with enough time chasing him, her feelings for him become permanent based on wanting him, even when she's got him, the feelings of wanting him are now permanent?

Your last remark, losing interest. Yes, that happens, just like with PUA who put on a mask and entice the woman and then she discovers the man behind the curtain and so loses interest in him.

[poppyfields]

23 minutes ago, Lance Mannion said:

Chemistry is simply a release of brain chemicals. Why there is release with some people and not others has to do with neurons firing because they recognize some pattern or some past experience and a linkage forms.

That's your opinion, which I respect but it's not mine.  My opinion is chemistry is "energy" - the energy generating between two people, that results in two people feeling a sort of instant connection, a comfort while at the same time a certain sexual tension that differentiates it from a friendship.  It's intangible and cannot be explained.  That's energy.

As living beings, part of the greater Universe, we all consist of matter and energy.  And that energy/chemistry doesn't always mean sexual either.  When I met my best girlfriend, we clicked immediately, we both felt that energy/chemistry.  A comfort like we've known each other forever.  It was instantaneous.

It was not sexual but it was energy/chemistry nonetheless and we have been best friends since that day.  

That's why when that energy/chemistry is genuine, and not based on the superficial like outward appearance, job, salary, social status, or someone being a "challenge," it mutual.   Energy generating between two people cannot be one-sided.  It also cannot be created or manufactured.    It's literally impossible.  

I realize this sounds hokey to some, probably even to you, but I've researched this, I have experienced it in my own life, and I believe it to be true.

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by poppyfields

[Emilie Jolie]

To get back to the OP, @zincmagnesium8 has given no indication that he is a PUA person, nor that he is gaming anyone. If anything, he might simply need reassurance that he's following the right path. 

OP, you obviously are since she is interested in you. You just need to determine whether you are genuinely wanting to get to know that person further, enough that you are willing to take that gamble. She may have been forward on the day, but she still might need assurances that you are 'in', especially since you took a bit of a step back on date 3. Some people don't like this chasing thing, and may just want a plain sailing, simple story with no rollercoasters. 

I personally think you should have a sort of talk to clearly establish mutual interest and take it from here, bearing in mind you can't do that much together as we are still in full blown pandemic mode.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Emilie Jolie
Typos

[Lance Mannion]

10 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

That's your opinion, which I respect but it's not mine.  My opinion is chemistry is "energy" - the energy generating between two people, that results in two people feeling a sort of instant connection, a comfort while at the same time a certain sexual tension that differentiates it from a friendship.  It's intangible and cannot be explained.  That's energy.

As living beings, part of the greater Universe, we all consist of matter and energy.  And that energy/chemistry doesn't always mean sexual either.  When I met my best girlfriend, we clicked immediately, we both felt that energy/chemistry.  A comfort like we've known each other forever.  It was instantaneous.

It was not sexual but it was energy/chemistry nonetheless and we have been best friends since that day.  

That's why when that energy/chemistry is genuine, and not based on the superficial like outward appearance, job, salary, social status, or someone being a "challenge," it mutual.   Energy generating between two people cannot be one-sided.  It also cannot be created or manufactured.    It's literally impossible.  

I realize this sounds hokey to some, probably even to you, but I've researched this, I have experienced it in my own life, and I believe it to be true.

We're probably using different words/concepts to describe the same process. When that energy hits it, something in your brain is firing off.

The trouble here is what happens to that energy? In most romantic cases it dissipates after a while. If this energy is released upon meeting, then what the heck is going on with delayed release? Maybe the energy is not attached to the person, but a smile, or a word, or a look, or a memory and it just so happens that the person is the delivery vehicle which brings that smile or look to the attention of the person who is hit with that feeling of chemistry.

[poppyfields]

To expound on my last, the reason why I feel so strongly about it is because I, and I know many others, who are quite attuned to energy, not just in people, but in our surroundings in general.  Like I can literally feel the energy in a room.  Positive and negative, immediately when I walk in.  And if negative, I will leave.  Same with people.  I can feel negative energy in a person and I will distance myself.

Chilling true story, but I recall going on a job interview many years so.  I am normally VERY comfortable on interviews, I have learned how to conquer my nerves and am able to speak very freely and openly.

Well this one interview, as soon as I walked through the door, I got a super bad vibe.  And as I was speaking with the interviewer, I was nervous, fumbling my words, I was SOOO uncomfortable, I wanted to get up and walk out!

A few more minutes into the interview, the interviewer advised me that there would be no overtime, that my predecessor had worked too much overtime, she was exhausted, and one day she had a heart attack at her desk and died!!   This had happened just one week prior to my interview.

Obviously, I could still feel her energy in that room, and it had a profound effect on me.  I politely excused myself and left.

I have NEVER felt that way on an interview since.

Edited December 22, 2020 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

1 minute ago, Lance Mannion said:

We're probably using different words/concepts to describe the same process. When that energy hits it, something in your brain is firing off.

The trouble here is what happens to that energy? In most romantic cases it dissipates after a while. If this energy is released upon meeting, then what the heck is going on with delayed release? Maybe the energy is not attached to the person, but a smile, or a word, or a look, or a memory and it just so happens that the person is the delivery vehicle which brings that smile or look to the attention of the person who is hit with that feeling of chemistry.

Perhaps.  I am sure it's just as deep as your said, with many facets and nuances.  I won't deny that is a very strong possibility.  

[Lance Mannion]

5 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

To get back to the OP, @zincmagnesium8 has given no indication that he is a PUA person, nor that he is gaming anyone. If anything, he might sure need reassurance that he's following the right path. 

OP, you obviously are since she is interested in you. You just need to determine whether you are genuinely wanting to get to know that person further, enough that you are willing to take that gamble. She may have been forward on the day, but she still might need assurances that you are 'in', especially since you took a bit of a step back on date 3. Some people don't like this chasing thing, and may just want a plain sailing, simple story with no rollercoasters. 

I personally think you should have a sort of talk to clearly establish mutual interest an take it from here, bearing in mind you can't do that much together as we are still in full blown pandemic mode.

In matters of the heart, logical talking doesn't accomplish much though. The last thing he should say to her is "I'm just not into you and I don't know why." No good comes to her from hearing that. They can't negotiate to a place where she helps him to conjure up desire for her.

His desire is either not there, is delayed and will come, or is being blocked. At some point he is going to reach a Go-NoGo point, either continue or jet.

[Emilie Jolie]

Just now, Lance Mannion said:

In matters of the heart, logical talking doesn't accomplish much though. The last thing he should say to her is "I'm just not into you and I don't know why." No good comes to her from hearing that. They can't negotiate to a place where she helps him to conjure up desire for her.

His desire is either not there, is delayed and will come, or is being blocked. At some point he is going to reach a Go-NoGo point, either continue or jet.

Yeah I get that. I wasn't thinking along the lines of him saying 'I'm not interested', more in terms of 'I am curious, interested, whatever' but I guess you're right, these things might not need verbalising. They'll just do their thing in their own way and see if it keeps .

[gaius]

A lot of younger guys are kind of indoctrinated nowadays to believe they should want women who take the lead, who are the aggressors and initiators. And while I'm sure there are some who genuinely enjoy that I'd say the majority of men don't, it's an enormous turn off no matter how physically attractive she is.

In other words, it's normal to have a flaccid penis if some woman you hardly know is crawling all over you uninvited. Even if she looks like Gal Gadot. And I'd be surprised if going on more dates helped out with that at all. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by gaius

[zincmagnesium8]

Just to give you all a bit of context instead of guessing about my situation and it might help clear up some things. Also I've had some more thoughts about everything which might explain why I'm feeling this way.

I'm in my early thirties. A number of women I've dated / spoken to on Tinder (as well as friends) have described me as quite a good looking guy, but I guess I grew into myself over the years so it's only recently that I've discovered my attractiveness so to speak. I'm far from cocky and am in no way a pick up artist (if I'm understanding the acronym 'PUA' correctly!). However I would be quite picky about who I date. Not at all to do with my own looks and looking for a '10' or something silly. I've just always been this way.

One of the posters may have been onto something. I would nearly always make the first move for a kiss. On our second date she grabbed me unexpectedly in the middle of a busy street and kissed me. Again, I did enjoy the kiss but I was very thrown by it. Maybe it was just that I wasn't expecting it. Then on the last date we were watching a movie and she pretty much pounced on me without warning. And this was much more intense than I'm used to and was certainly sexually charged. Whenever I've made out with a girl and then pulled away at any point, that would be it. But with her it was non-stop. She would pull me back in for more. I felt a bit out of control of the situation.

I wouldn't be the most confident sexually either. I've a feeling that she's quite experienced in the bedroom based on some of her earlier comments and I have to say that I have had very few sexual partners. It may have subconsciously one of the reasons why I spurned her advances to go up to her bedroom.

I do think I'm attracted to her given that I was more than happy to go on 3 dates with her when my dating life largely consisted of single dates that were unfortunately ended by me. There's definitely something attracting me to her, but at the same time I might be intimidated by her confidence which I'm not used to. Don't get me wrong, I don't go for vulnerable or insecure women. I like whoever I date to be confident in themselves, but this seems to be another level. I've gone on dates with very confident women before, but they didn't work out because it was an obnoxious kind of confidence. This isn't like that.

The more I type the more I feel I have my own issues I should be dealing with!