Dating the camera shy a turn off?

[Emilie Jolie]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

Of course, if it comes to taking photos of a stranger, good manners dictates that you'd ask their permission first.

Thanks @basil67.

I think I'm talking about something else, though - more a circumstance where a private pic (or any private detail of your life, even slightly adapted to make it look like it's just a coincidence) has been made public without knowledge or consent. I find that problematic.

In terms of photos or videos, most places / schools now ask for a signed permission for photos to be taken and / or published. At work I am not allowed to record my lectures without all my students' written approval. It's an admin headache but I don't mind it. I'm not allowed to ask them to switch their cameras on during online classes either.

When I first started at my job, we had to provide a photo for the dept website; I argued my case and have made them take mine off since, because I want to have full control of my image. This maybe too much for some, but I feel it's my prerogative to decide how and what I want published with my face on, for my own reasons. Maybe the lady in the OP is like me - who knows.

 

[QuietRiot]

30 minutes ago, basil67 said:

@Emilie Jolie my link is to Australian law, but it seems to be fairly consistent across different countries

Taking photos of others in public space is not illegal, provided that that it's not something to be used for voyeuristic purposes.   Fro example, I could go to the beach and happily take snapshots of the crowd on the beach and boardwalk without issue.  But if I was sitting there with a zoom lens taking shots of topless women or women bending over, I'd be escorted off the beach and charged.   

 If it's taken in say, a stadium, the photographer must comply with the T&Cs of the event ticket.  If the ticket doesn't specify that one must not take photos of the crowd, then it's legal to do so.  Think of how many photos attendees have taken of themselves or others and the shot has photos of other attendees in the background.....

Of course, if it comes to taking photos of a stranger, good manners dictates that you'd ask their permission first.

 

Right, if it's an an event or some place involving groups of people. It's cool. One time I was at a sci-fi/comic convention. There was this one cosplay gal there getting her pics taken by everyone. I got her permission to get her photo, she happily posted. I went to use it on my blog, and she sent me a message asking me to take it down. I did it, just to respect her...but I found it incredibly odd for this request...as she was there for that very reason.

[Miss Spider]

1 hour ago, Emilie Jolie said:

It's not just a 'decency' thing, though. I've never been to a meet up nor have I ever met anyone from a meet up or any 'private club' so I can't speak to that. I've also never physically met anyone from online, I've never given consent for any pic to be shared, implicit or explicit, anywhere or with anyone. I've personally never done that to anyone else, under any circumstances; I find it crass.

If someone took or shared a photo of me illegally wherever I am, that's a privacy and anonymity problem. Unless the place specifies it's ok to take pics and post them at random without the person's knowledge or consent (I don't know any place that does that), I think that's quite a serious privacy breach.

It's not just an annoyance, it's illegal.

 

Yea like basil in my country, usa, it’s not illegal to take photos of someone in a public place or even private place they are at as long as they have the owner of the place permission. So meet up groups take pics of group members and publish them on the website is completely legal. 
to me it would be more polite for a person who does not want the pic on there to say that before so that they don’t photobomb a pic and ask for it to be taken down so NO ONE can enjoy it. Because most people don’t mind 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

 I found it incredibly odd for this request...as she was there for that very reason.

Commonsense should dictate that you also ask permission to publish them on your blog.

And FWIW, I've also done cosplay.  I'm not there to end up on blogs, I'm there to have fun wearing costumes.   

[Emilie Jolie]

6 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Yea like basil in my country, usa, it’s not illegal to take photos of someone in a public place or even private place they are at as long as they have the owners permission.

And if you don't have permission or it's a private pic (or any other private detail) that was made public, what happens in the USA?

Edited December 19, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[Foxhall]

I imagine your challenge is to relax her and convince her to enjoy sharing photos with you,

Im a lot more camera shy than my woman , she found this strange at first, but funnily enough I dont mind now and am happy to take photos with her,

you have'nt fully put her at ease or are not relaxed enough together yet-  that is what you have to work on- could easily sort itself out in a few months, so I dont see the logic of putting up these type of ultimatums in your own head.

 

[QuietRiot]

42 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Commonsense should dictate that you also ask permission to publish them on your blog.

And FWIW, I've also done cosplay.  I'm not there to end up on blogs, I'm there to have fun wearing costumes.   

Well, this one is a rather well known cosplayer and model that is used to that kind of thing. She even had her own booth. Highly promotional. 

[basil67]

Ah, well if it's highly promotional, she'll want control of her own images.   Perhaps if she'd given prior approval for the image and you'd offered to pay her, she would have agreed for you to publish it.

Edited December 20, 2020 by basil67

[Taramere]

2 hours ago, Foxhall said:

I imagine your challenge is to relax her and convince her to enjoy sharing photos with you,

Im a lot more camera shy than my woman , she found this strange at first, but funnily enough I dont mind now and am happy to take photos with her,

you have'nt fully put her at ease or are not relaxed enough together yet-  that is what you have to work on- could easily sort itself out in a few months, so I dont see the logic of putting up these type of ultimatums in your own head.

 

I think you make great points about the importance of people being relaxed and at ease, when they have their photo taken.  It just seems like with the OP, this woman being camera shy is a very big deal for him.  It's hard to imagine that situation panning out well.  I would imagine her discomfort with having her photo taken is only going to increase in the course of the relationship.  Any photographs he does manage to take of her are probably going to turn out looking awful as a consequence.

Although I find the presence of photographers a bit of a pain at events, I think in a situation where you need a good photograph, it's a Godsend to get a skilled professional photographer who is good at putting people at ease while giving them directions that create a nice, natural looking picture.  I mentioned the annoying photographer at my friend's wedding but despite his constant choreographing/direction intruding upon the day a great deal, the bottom line was that he was being paid to do exactly that.  My friend is, like me, very uncomfortable with getting her picture taken, which was why she was prepared to splash out on that aspect of the event and allow him to choreograph the event to the extent that he did.  She was a camera shy bride who wanted great pictures of her wedding...and the price of that was a very skilled, expensive photographer who had to be allowed to take over the day to a certain extent.

And while there's no doubt that he took over and was bossy, he was proved very good and patient at dealing with us camera shy folks, and the pictures he took were great looking.   It didn't seem to surprise or annoy him that we were camera shy.  In fact, he seemed to regard it as perfectly normal.  No big deal at all, and something he could easily work with.  That, combined with his proven skill and his photographer's eye for detail, good angles etc made us trust his direction - even if that direction made the day seem overly choreographed at times.

So I guess if the OP's feelings of being turned off by his girlfriend's camera shyness are related to him having a particular interest in photography, maybe he could try looking at things from a fresh angle (which, presumably, is another part of being a good photographer).  Learning to be patient and empathic with the camera shy, and putting them at their ease, might help him to become a much better photographer generally if that's important to him.  And I'm assuming that photography must be a particularly important interest for him, before his girlfriend's dislike of having her picture taken is such a turn off and a potential deal-breaker.  

[Emilie Jolie]

She's a dear friend of his he loves to death, according to the OP...

[Wiseman2]

10 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

. I went to use it on my blog, and she sent me a message asking me to take it down.

Exactly.  Taking a photo, then people abusing that trust like this is why you are getting pushback.

If you want to blog or whatever use images that are not close up or identified or tagged.

Just because something is out in the open it doesn't mean it's yours for the taking. If that were the case people could just walk away with artwork from museums,etc.

Learn to respect others and not drag them into your personal online world.

[QuietRiot]

3 hours ago, Taramere said:

I think you make great points about the importance of people being relaxed and at ease, when they have their photo taken.  It just seems like with the OP, this woman being camera shy is a very big deal for him.  It's hard to imagine that situation panning out well.  I would imagine her discomfort with having her photo taken is only going to increase in the course of the relationship.  Any photographs he does manage to take of her are probably going to turn out looking awful as a consequence.

Although I find the presence of photographers a bit of a pain at events, I think in a situation where you need a good photograph, it's a Godsend to get a skilled professional photographer who is good at putting people at ease while giving them directions that create a nice, natural looking picture.  I mentioned the annoying photographer at my friend's wedding but despite his constant choreographing/direction intruding upon the day a great deal, the bottom line was that he was being paid to do exactly that.  My friend is, like me, very uncomfortable with getting her picture taken, which was why she was prepared to splash out on that aspect of the event and allow him to choreograph the event to the extent that he did.  She was a camera shy bride who wanted great pictures of her wedding...and the price of that was a very skilled, expensive photographer who had to be allowed to take over the day to a certain extent.

And while there's no doubt that he took over and was bossy, he was proved very good and patient at dealing with us camera shy folks, and the pictures he took were great looking.   It didn't seem to surprise or annoy him that we were camera shy.  In fact, he seemed to regard it as perfectly normal.  No big deal at all, and something he could easily work with.  That, combined with his proven skill and his photographer's eye for detail, good angles etc made us trust his direction - even if that direction made the day seem overly choreographed at times.

So I guess if the OP's feelings of being turned off by his girlfriend's camera shyness are related to him having a particular interest in photography, maybe he could try looking at things from a fresh angle (which, presumably, is another part of being a good photographer).  Learning to be patient and empathic with the camera shy, and putting them at their ease, might help him to become a much better photographer generally if that's important to him.  And I'm assuming that photography must be a particularly important interest for him, before his girlfriend's dislike of having her picture taken is such a turn off and a potential deal-breaker.  

Hey, don't get me wrong, I'll respect that someone doesn't want their photo taken, and thusly, I won't do it. I dunno, I just sometimes feel it may be an indicator of something deeper. More of a yellow flag than a red.

This reminded me of, ironically, a camera shy photographer. He kind of had a "thing" where he'd cover his mouth and nose (only expose his eyes) in a speak-no-evil fashion. It became kind of a running gag or gimmick, when in reality, he hated his own photo being taken, but it was kind of funny when he spun it into that.

Speaking of wedding, he finally got married. Someone took his wedding photo of him and his bride, and he photoshopped his face to the point where you couldn't recognize him. It was covered by some other face. Beard, sunglasses, etc.

The wife made a caption saying, "My husband, who is a photographer, prefers to be behind the camera than in front"

I was thinking, "Man, that's really, really weird, to be doing that to yourself on one of the most important days of your life, and it's kind of an embarrassment really". I was like that's not funny anymore.

[QuietRiot]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

Ah, well if it's highly promotional, she'll want control of her own images.   Perhaps if she'd given prior approval for the image and you'd offered to pay her, she would have agreed for you to publish it.

Well, I could just grab a legal image of some cosplay model's off of Google Images. It's  just the same thing, except I'm doing it all behind the computer. Both are just s legal...as long as you chose the "Creative Commons" option or something.

[Emilie Jolie]

29 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Learn to respect others and not drag them into your personal online world.

I agree with @basil67on this - simply asking for permission beforehand may have been enough. 

There's a difference between being 'camera shy' and not wanting your face being shared without authorisation, I think.

I also agree with @Foxhallin that maybe it's a comfort issue, not necessarily a trust issue. Some people need an inordinate amount of time to feel relaxed in a group setting rather than a one-on-one setting. 

[Taramere]

31 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

Hey, don't get me wrong, I'll respect that someone doesn't want their photo taken, and thusly, I won't do it. I dunno, I just sometimes feel it may be an indicator of something deeper. More of a yellow flag than a red.

This reminded me of, ironically, a camera shy photographer. He kind of had a "thing" where he'd cover his mouth and nose (only expose his eyes) in a speak-no-evil fashion. It became kind of a running gag or gimmick, when in reality, he hated his own photo being taken, but it was kind of funny when he spun it into that.

Speaking of wedding, he finally got married. Someone took his wedding photo of him and his bride, and he photoshopped his face to the point where you couldn't recognize him. It was covered by some other face. Beard, sunglasses, etc.

That sounds like a pretty extreme form of camera shyness.  A difficulty and perhaps something that could be described as a "dysfunction" - but maybe it also contributed to him being a good photographer.  Talent and what can be defined as dysfunction do quite often go hand in hand.  I was looking at an article about a photographer who uses awkward silence to create memorable photographs.

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20170512-how-being-shy-can-help-you-take-good-photos

When you look at his photos, in that article, I do think he really captures something very intimate about his subjects.  

The guy you mention - maybe his habit of covering his nose and mouth was perceived as a comedy move by others, but was not intended by him to be pure comedy.  This thread was making me think of photography generally - and the way some photographers have a reputation for being quite abrupt and unpleasant with the models they work with.  I guess that professional models know their angles, and know what tends to work in commercial shoots - but when they're dealing with high fashion photographers, there's probably pressure to produce shots that are fresher, more interesting and that might sometimes require the models to be shot from less flattering angles - which I'm sure would result in creative conflict between photographer and model at times.   So that's maybe why the higher fashion photographers would be more sharp and abrupt in their direction.  I think generally with particularly talented people, there's a method to their madness - or their rudeness, but their manner/habits will often be interpreted by others as just being diva-like behaviour or a gimmick.

It doesn't sound as though your friend is camera shy to anything like the extent of the photographer you describe.  If it's an issue she'd like to address, having a few shots taken (even if they're just passport shots) by a professional might help with that.  The more camera shy a person is, the worse they tend to look in photos...in their own eyes, even if not in other people's eyes.  I remember when I was in my twenties, my mother said "right, I'm sick of you looking awful in your passport.  I'm going to send you to a photographer to get some nice passport photos for once.  The photographer was like "oh, you should be quite photogenic.  This'll be reasonably easy."  Ten photos later he was all "really...try not to shut your eyes when the camera flashes."  Then it was "okay, that wide eyed and haunted expression isn't quite what we're going for either...and nor is a twisted smirk."  Eventually we ended up with a picture that a boyfriend subsequently described as my "cheesy cheerleader picture" - but I really liked it.  It wasn't photoshopped or anything, it was just a nice pic.  Having that helped me to be a bit more relaxed in front of a camera - even though I never became anything approximating photogenic or confident in front of a camera.

We're living in an era where people will think nothing of posting friends' pics up on social media without considering how the friend in question feels about it.  To people who have some mild level of body dysmorphia (and that's something which is far more common, at mild levels, among women than you might realise) it can be quite distressing when people do that.  Because it's so common, there's pressure to pretend you're fine with people doing that...because admitting otherwise, or asking a friend to remove a picture from social media, is likely to be perceived as "drama".  But really, there are probably more people out there than you realise who have some degree of body dysmorphia.  In the case of the photographer you mentioned, that sounds like a very severe case of it.  In your friend's case, maybe it's just quite mild.  It's not crippling her.  It's not preventing her from attending social events....but when you've got Meet Up hosts giving messages along the lines of "pics will be taken and published, and if you're not okay with that then just stay home", that's the sort of thing that probably could prevent some people from attending events that they would otherwise go to.

I understand the logic of Meet Up hosts wanting to make it clear to people that they might appear in published photos, but Meet Up sounds like the sort of thing a lot of fairly shy people might get involved in in an effort to widen their social circle.  The "we'll be taking and publishing pics - stay home if you can't handle that" approach is probably, from their perspective, a pretty insensitive one.

If shyness generally is a trait you find very unattractive in women, then maybe it's best to get/keep this relationship very much on a platonic footing - and try, for the sake of your friend's self confidence, to avoid giving her the message that you find her shyness unattractive.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Taramere

[kismetkismet]

23 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

Even at Meetup events, the organizer puts out a disclaimer to "expect to have your photo taken at these events and be posted to the gallery, as it won't be taken down, regardless...otherwise, don't come to the event".

I definitely would never go to an event where it's expected/mandatory to be a FREE marketing tool for them. A lot of people don't want their private dating life splashed on the internet... That's actually quite bizarre. 

[NuevoYorko]

Wow, who knew this was even a thing?  

Maybe it's associated with my age.  This whole thing of every person having a camera on them at all times, and chronicling the most banal of moments to possibly share on social media, even in real time, is quite new.  Back in the day, it was often like "Shoot, I wish I had my camera."  If we did have our camera, we would need film and then to remember to take it to be developed and prints made.  Then we'd pay to get the pictures back.  So somebody would have some pictures of you at an event or whatever but they would rarely if ever reach any kind of a significant audience; even then, there were people who were considered "camera shy."  It has never been thought of as a crippling social issue, to my knowledge.

I guess if I were in a long term, serious relationship and my partner consistently refused to appear in family group photos or "special moment" type ones I might feel something.  Otherwise ... to each their own, but it's a challenge for me to wrap my mind around how this could be important?

[poppyfields]

@QuietRiot, I don't quite get why you would associate being camera shy with having no sense of humor, can you expound on that?

There are soooo many reasons for someone being camera shy or not wanting their pic taken, I've never heard it was because they lacked a sense of humor.   Those two things are not even remotely related.  

That said, if it's a dealbreaker, so be.  I once dumped a guy because I didn't like his shoes lol, he wore those "lift" shoes on our first date, total turn off, for me.

You don't need a reason to dump, you're either into her or you're not.

You're not, and that's ok.  No need to be creating dealbreakers that make no sense, just to have a reason. 

Just next her, keep going.

Edited December 20, 2020 by poppyfields

[Ellener]

6 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

I just sometimes feel it may be an indicator of something deeper.

Why?

Not everything is an indicator of something deeper!

[Ellener]

1 minute ago, poppyfields said:

I once dumped a guy because I didn't like his shoes lol, he wore those "lift" shoes on our first date, total turn off, for me.

Wow.

You should see the charcot foot shoes I'll need to wear...saying that someone who would prioritise footwear wouldn't be a good fit for me!

[NuevoYorko]

6 minutes ago, Ellener said:

Wow.

You should see the charcot foot shoes I'll need to wear...saying that someone who would prioritise footwear wouldn't be a good fit for me!

Well, honestly, I think a guy wearing "lift shoes" speaks more about him than his fashion sense ...

[poppyfields]

14 minutes ago, Ellener said:

Wow.

You should see the charcot foot shoes I'll need to wear...saying that someone who would prioritise footwear wouldn't be a good fit for me!

Well there was more to it Ellener.  Firstly, he did not have a disability, if he had, it would not have been a a turn off. 

Second, he was 6'+ in bare feet!  Or he looked to be when we met (on the beach).

So why the lift shoes?  He wanted to be taller, bigger? 

To me, that reflected insecurity, that was the turn off, not his shoes per se. 

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

5 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Well, honestly, I think a guy wearing "lift shoes" speaks more about him than his fashion sense ...

Exactly!  Thank you.  

[Ellener]

5 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Well, honestly, I think a guy wearing "lift shoes" speaks more about him than his fashion sense ...

 

1 minute ago, poppyfields said:

He wanted to be taller, bigger? 

No idea on that one, it does seem to come up as an issue again and again on this forum, height. 

Like it even matters, well it wouldn't to me.

 

[poppyfields]

11 minutes ago, Ellener said:

 

No idea on that one, it does seem to come up as an issue again and again on this forum, height. 

Like it even matters, well it wouldn't to me.

 

Height doesn't mean a hill of beans to me either.  What does matter to me is a man being so insecure about his height, he needs to wear lift shoes. 

The guy was 6' already, it seemed silly.  They weren't even attractive looking shoes.

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by poppyfields