am I overreacting?

[throwawaygoblin]

yesterday, organ donation came up in conversation with my (22) boyfriend (22) of about a year. i'm very passionately for organ donation, especially since a cousin of mine went through kidney failure. sometimes just thinking about the fact that people won't donate their organs after death makes me like really unreasonably angry. the only reason i could accept is religious reasons. but my bf (who is not religious) told me he's against it and went out of his way to opt out. when i asked him to explain, all his reasons basically came back to the philosophical belief that because humans are terrible we shouldn't keep trying to expand life as much as possible. i always knew he's an antinatalist at best and a nihilist at worst, with a pessimistic streak, but it never occurred to me it would extend to something like organ donation? and i know its kind of a trivial thing, but knowing that he takes those opinions that seriously, into an issue that i've always been passionate about, really makes me rethink my perception of him. philosophically i don't think humans are good either, but i'd never take that and apply it to the possibility that i could help someone after death. he also stressed that since its a personal decision and everyone is free to choose he doesn't like that people pressure you into it, but tbh i think that's just bitter stubbornness. at the end of the day, science and health care is going to progress whether he wants it to or not, and when he's dead he won't need his organs, so to keep them from people who need them and spend years suffering on wait lists needing them in that way is so disgusting to me.

when i told him as much he said it was an emotional argument and that he thinks emotional arguments are inherently illogical so he discounts them. philosophically i think that's massive bulls*** (humans are emotional beings - to discredit emotional arguments from conversations about humanity is to deny humanity itself) and its really bothering me that he feels this way.

i don't know if i want to remain in a relationship with someone who has such a negative mindset, especially about an issue i've always taken very seriously. but other than this, i do really like him, and we get along great. the idea of breaking up with him makes me so so upset. since its kind of trivial i don't know if i'm overreacting or not by thinking about ending things, but i also don't want to compromise on something i care a lot about.

[Miss Spider]

Hey you may or may not be overreacting. Depends on how you feel about him overall. You can’t tell him what to do with his organs, he’s right, but sounds like incompatibility. I like pessimists, but this guy I takes it too far for me. It’s one thing to say we shouldn’t propagate/“expand”life because there’s suffering, but it’s another thing to say the life already here should suffer. When he’s dead and put out of his misery, his organs could actually make life a little better for someone, but instead he wants to be a bitter, mean grouch. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[FMW]

My driver's license is marked clearly that I have chosen to be an organ donor.  That being said-

Organ donation decisions are very personal and aren't necessarily based on any scientific or logical reasons.  My mother is an RN and doesn't want her organs donated.  She can't give me any real reason, but she doesn't owe me - or anyone else - a reason.  Her body, her choice, including after death.

Your insistence that your boyfriend see things your way is controlling and unreasonable.  If you don't like the way he sees this or any other issue, stop seeing him and only get involved with people who share the views you hold on this or any other issue on which you can't accept difference.   

  

[Stret]

It is a question that only you can answer. Can you live with it? I wouldn't mind it personally, I am an organ donor and I would date someone who isn't for the reasons he specified. If anything, it means he can see the wider picture - he sees all the suffering in the world, you see suffering of an individual waiting for organ. I completely understand him. 

[Happy Lemming]

1 minute ago, FMW said:

My driver's license is marked clearly that I have chosen to be an organ donor.  That being said-

Same here... the doctors can have anything they find useful, tissue, cornea(s), organs.  If it can help someone else... take it.

3 minutes ago, FMW said:

Organ donation decisions are very personal and aren't necessarily based on any scientific or logical reasons.  My mother is an RN and doesn't want her organs donated.  She can't give me any real reason, but she doesn't owe me - or anyone else - a reason.  Her body, her choice, including after death. 

I had a similar discussion with my father, while helping him fill out some paperwork. He is completely against donating anything.  In the end, I made my decision, he made his.

8 minutes ago, FMW said:

Your insistence that your boyfriend see things your way is controlling and unreasonable.  

100% agree.  He doesn't owe you an explanation or a reason for his decision.  I would never try to convince someone to change their mind regarding organ/tissue/cornea donation.  He has thought about it weighed the pros and cons and made his decision.  Accept him as he is or say "good bye", don't try to mold and change people to your liking.

[Gaeta]

To me you are over-reacting. Your boyfriend has the right to his own opinion and beleif. As long as those beleif don't interfere in your daily life and the loyalty you have to each other. My ex-bf and I didn't think the same on many subjects as we were from different cultures. He had the weirdest beleifs that came from his creole upbringning...I let him be. I don't need a boyfriend to beleive everyhting I beleive in. You  might as well date yourself. 

 

[Miss Spider]

26 minutes ago, Stret said:

It is a question that only you can answer. Can you live with it? I wouldn't mind it personally, I am an organ donor and I would date someone who isn't for the reasons he specified. If anything, it means he can see the wider picture - he sees all the suffering in the world, you see suffering of an individual waiting for organ. I completely understand him. 

It’s not really about stopping suffering in  the world though. I understand if you worried about suffering all over the world not having children. That makes sense to me. But wanting people that are already living to suffer sounds sadistic to me. It implies an irrational hatred of humanity that I would not be cool with

 

people are right, his decision not to donate organs is his and his alone. However, the reason that he gave for not donating implies something about him I don’t think you should overlook.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Happy Lemming]

16 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

But wanting people that are already living to suffer sounds sadistic to me.

 

I looked at it a little different.  I thought about the joy my donation could bring another individual.

I remember when I moved to a new state and had to obtain a new driver's license (for that state).  The Motor Vehicle clerk asked me about organ donation, which I agreed, then she asked me specifically about donating my eyes & cornea(s) to which I agreed to that, as well.

As I was leaving I starting thinking about my eyes being in someone else re-reading some of my favorite books and bringing them as much joy, as those books had brought me.  That idea made me quite happy.  Forgive me if that sounds strange or morbid, but it is something I will always remember.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Happy Lemming
spelling

[Miss Spider]

14 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

I looked at it a little different.  I though about the joy my donation could bring another individual.

I remember when I moved to a new state and had to obtain a new driver's license (for that state).  The Motor Vehicle clerk asked me about organ donation, which I agreed, then she asked me specifically about donating my eyes & cornea(s) to which I agreed to that, as well.

As I was leaving I starting thinking about my eyes being in someone else re-reading some of my favorite books and bringing them as much joy, as those books had brought me.  That idea made me quite happy.  Forgive me if that sounds strange or morbid, but it is something I will always remember.

Well, I get what you’re saying, but I think it is not really a question about whether or not one ought to donate organs or not. Now that they’ve had this conversation on why he does not want to, I think OP is asking if his ideology is way too far off the map or she is overreacting. And I am thinking that it is a matter of opinion. It would be for me. By not donating an organ, to say, a child woman that needs part of one, that child will suffer. He is reasoning that it’s ok for the child to suffer, because the child suffering a d dying will cause less suffering in the long run. But that is too pessimistic in my opinion. The red button argument is taking away the power of other sentient beings. He feels he has the authority to mitigate suffering. But you are actually causing suffering to those beings by not giving them a an opportunity to see out their own will... If a guy fails to understand Schopenhauer‘s Will to Live  and the philosophy that birthed the antinatalism he’s espousing,  he can miss me, personally...

Edited December 17, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes
nietzsche‘s will to power

[elaine567]

He's 22. It is still all about him, he doesn't really care about other real people, it is all about theories and idealism.
Once he grows up a bit he will likely change his mind.
Life is too short to try to change pessimistic people you do not agree with.
Go find a happier more optimistic bf.

[Ruby Slippers]

I agree that whether or not to donate your organs or even to donate blood is a very personal decision. I won't do either, and it's not for religious but spiritual reasons. I view all those things as sacred and mine, not to be given to anyone else even once I die. At the same time, I'm overall an optimistic, half-glass-full kind of person, have even been accused by some of being a Pollyanna for my determination to focus on the positive as much as possible. I have a misanthropic side that sees the point that people can be bad and not worth saving, but I err on the humanitarian side and choose to focus on the good and the potential.

All that said, when I was a teenager and in my early 20s, I had spells of gloominess where I was quite cynical and even more misanthropic. Like many young people, I tended to think I had it all figured out and sometimes concluded that people suck. People's beliefs, ethics, and values are usually not solidified until later in life. So keep that in mind when evaluating your 22-year-old boyfriend.

Finally, I think it's very important to pay attention to these things. If your intuition is telling you his ethical stance on the matter is bothering you, there will probably be other things in the same vein that will bother you later. The more I got to know my last boyfriend, the more I felt his values and ethics were mediocre and not in line with my own. As a result, I added a couple of points to my list, things I'll screen for more carefully next time I date.

[throwawaygoblin]

thank you for all your responses! i think shortskirtslonglashes understood me the best, as well as how he came off to me in conversation. his arguments had less to do with organ donation specifically and more to do with thinking humans will suffer and create more suffering if they continue to live so they should just die. one thing he said that particularly upset me was when i brought up the fact that my cousins kidneys failed when he was a teen, he responded that "some people die young." which stunned me too much to say anything at the time but when i thought about it after it pissed me off SO much. even if its an "emotional" argument that i want my cousin to live longer because i'm attached to them, that's an aspect of humanity too and he deserves to opportunities that he got because he did get a kidney in the end (getting married, having kids, owning a house, etc). 

that being said, i can also see how wanting him to change his perspective would be controlling of me. that's the last thing i want to be, and to be honest? he's way too stubborn to be swayed anyway. that's why i'm struggling with the idea of if i should stay with him or not. again, like shortskirtslonglashes was getting at, it's his overwhelmingly negative ideology that's really making me second guess this relationship. as passionate as i am about organ donation, at the end of the day it is his organs, its just the fact that he sees the world as such a negative place that people should just die and the emotional attachments others have to them shouldn't matter in that. kind of like the only emotion that matters in a discussion is suffering, and all others are irrelevant because ?????? they are.

i greatly appreciate the feedback from older members as well!! he is definitely a very pessimistic and self-assured angsty 22 year old, and i could see this mindset leaving as he got older. but we're not older yet and it bugs me now so. i'm just kind of at a loss.

i'll continue to think on this more but thank you all so much for your comments

[Gaeta]

Is he pessimistic in general? in other aspects of life?

[Ruby Slippers]

15 minutes ago, throwawaygoblin said:

one thing he said that particularly upset me was when i brought up the fact that my cousins kidneys failed when he was a teen, he responded that "some people die young." which stunned me too much to say anything at the time but when i thought about it after it pissed me off SO much. even if its an "emotional" argument that i want my cousin to live longer because i'm attached to them, that's an aspect of humanity too and he deserves to opportunities that he got because he did get a kidney in the end (getting married, having kids, owning a house, etc). 

That was an insensitive thing to say. Personally, I've found it very difficult to find a man who's got all those manly qualities that women love but is also a sensitive person. I think they must be the ones who get married young to women who never let them go 

[throwawaygoblin]

3 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Is he pessimistic in general? in other aspects of life?

yeah pretty much all the time, though whenever i tell him he is he just says he's a "realist." even tho i am an optimist it doesn't usually bother me and we just laugh over our differences in opinions, but this time it's a bit much

[Gaeta]

I'm familiar with realists. Came across one a few years back. They have a way of raining on your parade any chance they get. 

[basil67]

I wouldn't end it over a disagreement on organ donation UNLESS he refused to honor your wishes about your own body (Where I live, we can have it marked on our license, but relatives can override our wishes)  HOWEVER the rest of his behaviour sounds intolerable.   You're young so you can take time with your decisions, but please don't have children with this man.

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

That was an insensitive thing to say. Personally, I've found it very difficult to find a man who's got all those manly qualities that women love but is also a sensitive person. I think they must be the ones who get married young to women who never let them go 

Oh I think even very masculine “manly” men are sensitive, perhaps even more sensitive than the average women; problem is they’ve been taught by society to not show vulnerability and hide their sensitivity lest they be deemed “weak” and by guess, who?  Women!

It’s a great big façade they put on, an act.  I don’t buy it, I have never bought it.  My brother and dad (both extremely masculine men, U.S Marines) taught me that.  On the outside, strong, tough as nails, but deep inside, two of most sensitive men I know (or knew, my dad has passed). 

My dad never told me he loved while I was growing up, but later in his life, he often wrote me letters and later emails expressing how much he loved and cared for me, and when I got very sick, my dear brother went to the market and on his own chose the most beautiful almost sappy card, and hand wrote a lovely inscription.  My brother wept with me in private after both our mom and dad passed.

So don’t ever believe that manly masculine men are not sensitive, it’s one the biggest fallacies there is.  You just have to bring it out of him, create a safe non-judgmental environment for him to show that side of him to you.  Just my opinion and experience, of course every man is different.

To the OP, if your boyfriend truly feels the way he does, and the response about your cousin was genuine and real (not some sort of macho façade), then we’re talking bordering sociopathic behavior imo, lacking empathy and compassion towards fellow human beings.

However, dig a little deeper, you might find quite a sensitive young man underneath all that false pride and bravado.

If not, I would next, I could never be with a man with his attitude.  But up to you.

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by poppyfields

[throwawaygoblin]

3 hours ago, poppyfields said:

To the OP, if your boyfriend truly feels the way he does, and the response about your cousin was genuine and real, then we’re talking bordering sociopathic behavior imo, lacking empathy and compassion toward a fellow human being.

However, dig a little deeper, you might find quite a sensitive young man underneath all that false pride and bravado.

If not, I would next, I could never be with a man with his attitude.  But up to you.

i don't know how genuine and real it was, he might have been making an offhand joke. but when i brought it up again later and about how it upset me he didn't really apologize, just said that he felt the same for his family members who have needed organ transplants, but that he didn't think that kind emotional attachment mattered to the topic overall. which i guess keeps his opinion from being hypocritical. i guess the disconnect is i take my emotional opinions on the issue and hold those highest, whereas he takes what he believes is logical (ie, not emotional) and holds it highest.

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, throwawaygoblin said:

yeah pretty much all the time, though whenever i tell him he is he just says he's a "realist." even tho i am an optimist it doesn't usually bother me and we just laugh over our differences in opinions, but this time it's a bit much

That was my first thought, he's a realist, but that remark about your cousin, that brings being a realist to a whole n'other level imo, assuming again it wasn't some act.

Edited December 18, 2020 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

17 minutes ago, throwawaygoblin said:

i don't know how genuine and real it was, he might have been making an offhand joke. but when i brought it up again later and about how it upset me he didn't really apologize, just said that he felt the same for his family members who have needed organ transplants, but that he didn't think that kind emotional attachment mattered.....

Again and JMO, but lack of emotions or incapable or desirous of developing emotional attachments and dismissing like it's beneath him and claiming attachments don't matter suggests a lack of empathy and is sociopathic.   The organ transplant issue is a symptom of a much larger issue, one that you may want to explore further before you become too deeply enmeshed.

You'd be surprised how many sociopaths are walking around, people we would never suspect on the outside.  They have great careers, are successful, attractive, charming, funny, appear to others as having it all together, meanwhile deep inside their core being, they don't give a shyt.

How are you still with guy?  Regardless of how he feels about organ transplant, how can you be in a relationship with a guy whom you know isn't capable or desirous of feeling emotionally connected or attached to you?  What's the appeal for you?

Not judging, just asking.

Edited December 18, 2020 by poppyfields

[smackie9]

I’m a donor myself, but my husband is not. That’s his personal choice I don’t hold it against him. You can’t nail your bf or anyone to a cross because they’re not a donor. Just be proud to be a donor and drop the subject. 

[Gaeta]

26 minutes ago, throwawaygoblin said:

??? because my cousin had to suffer for YEARS in and out of the hospital on a wait list to get a kidney several times???? almost died more times than i can count????? it's just an important issue to me man

I understand being pro organ-donor but you seem overly-passionate about this. My mother had breast cancer and beat it because of early screening and I don't hit on people's head if they don't want to do early screening. 

[poppyfields]

Could it be what's really troubling you is not that he's against organ donation, but rather his reasons for being against it? 

Personally I'm appalled by those reasons - emotional attachments don't matter, his utter lack of empathy.  

He is an emotional void, the epitome of emotionally unavailable, no wonder YOU are feeling so emotional about this, it's like trying to mix oil and water.  

Your natures are completely incompatible.  

The issues we face with our partners almost always run deeper than what we originally thought them to be.

Edited December 18, 2020 by poppyfields

[LivingWaterPlease]

1 hour ago, throwawaygoblin said:

??? because my cousin had to suffer for YEARS in and out of the hospital on a wait list to get a kidney several times???? almost died more times than i can count????? it's just an important issue to me man

also weird of you to dilute this to just me being mad he doesn't have the same view as me. we have lots of views that differ, but i'm upset because this one involves a level of nihilism and process of ideological argument that i'm not sure i like the implications of for him as a person. 

if i'm overreacting i'll accept that bro i came to this forum because i wanted other peoples opinions since i couldn't decide for myself, but i'm not gonna sit here and be called crazy because i? have an issue thats important to me? lmao

To me,  you are over reacting to your bf and over reacting in the above post to the person you're addressing.

I do think you and your bf are incompatible. This has nothing to do with the subject at hand but rather involves that you may be quite easily triggered and accustomed to expressing yourself with intensity and he may be a person who isn't going to be able to figure out what may set you off and when.

Chill a little! Doesn't mean you have to budge on your beliefs. It's great, IMO, that you care so much about others and organ donation. You just need to figure out the line that separates who you are as an individual from other people. Most people you meet will have some different values/beliefs than you do. Find out why that upsets you so much.