Unsure how to navigate this friendship

[poppyfields]

On 12/16/2020 at 7:59 AM, amygirl908 said:

So I met a guy and it was great we were together for two weeks and then we decided to call it quits. He moved the relationship forward way too fast and I did not set any boundaries, which is something I'm working on in all parts of my life right now. I know why at this time it didn't work out and he's not ready for a relationship.

It's a complicated situation... the feelings and the chemistry we have for each other are crazy intense. 

Just had a chance to catch up with this thread. I've read it in its entirety.

So you were "together" for two weeks, what do you mean by together?  Dating, having sex?

You say you lacked strong boundaries, not sure what you mean by that either, in this context.  Do you mean sexually?

In any event, after a mere two weeks, he decided he only wanted to be friends. Or back to being just friends, since you were friends prior to being "together."

Second paragraph^, are you sure HE is feeling this crazy and intense chemistry as well?  Or is this you projecting your intense feelings on to him, which is quite common.

Reason I ask is I have never known a man who feels crazy and intense chemistry with a woman to only want a friendship unless he's a commitmentphobe/avoidant, in which case, I suggest you run as fast as you can away from him, as such men can really mess you up.

The way I see it, this is no "friendship" just a man who doesn't know what the hell he wants, enjoys keeping options open and dangling women on a string, which at 28 years of age is immature and frankly unacceptable imo.

My best advice, and advice given to me - raise your standards and choose more wisely.

Good luck moving forward.

Edited December 20, 2020 by poppyfields

[stillafool]

20 hours ago, amygirl908 said:

He knows I’m doing my own thing right now. I’m not looking for a relationship but I’m still dating, it’s not like my life stopped because we became friends instead of openly dating. I could understand if this was all one sided but I get the things I want out of the friendship too.

Okay so you both are now dating other people but you're not sure you want to continue keeping this guy as a friend?  I'm sorry if I don't understand what you want, this is rather confusing.

[poppyfields]

33 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Okay so you both are now dating other people but you're not sure you want to continue keeping this guy as a friend?  I'm sorry if I don't understand what you want, this is rather confusing.

I agree it's confusing as OP has been quite evasive, not sure if intentional or not.

She claims it's complicated but it's not really.  

They were friends and perhaps there was a mutual attraction.

For two weeks, he pushed a "relationship" (i.e he wanted to have sex with her).

She admitted she lacked boundaries (i.e she had sex with him), after which he decided he did not want a relationship after all, and only wants "friends."

Apologies if this sounds harsh, but what a load of ****.

After only two weeks, he's not an ex.  He's a guy who pushed sex under the guise of wanting a relationship, got what he was after, and dumped.  

I know it's difficult to see it this way OP because of your "crazy and intense chemistry."  Yours, not his, otherwise he would not have dumped you.  Sorry, not gonna happen when a man is truly into you.

I would encourage you to walk away altogether, he's no friend.  

I could be wrong, just my $.02.

Edited December 20, 2020 by poppyfields

[amygirl908]

On 12/20/2020 at 3:51 AM, ExpatInItaly said:

How are you going to feel when he starts dating someone else? Will you still want to be friends? That's eventually what is going to happen and your need to brace yourself for it. 

I think you're not being honest with yourself. It hurts that he changed about dating you, and now you're playing mental gymnastics with yourself trying to justify keeping this person in your life. This weirdo was talking about meeting families and moving in after just 2 weeks? Girl. What can someone who demonstrates that level of impulsiveness and immaturity really add to your life? 

When you're saying you can't imagine not having him in your life and you've known him for 60 days, you really need to zoom out and identify the void in your life that this guy was filling for a bit. You don't know each other that well as people after 2 months (nobody really does) so this has less to do with him and more to do with something else going on inside you that is seeking...companionship? Affection? Somewhere, you have some inner work to do so you can regain your balance and not stay in unhealthy situations and bargain with your own emotions this much. 

He is dating someone else and I still want to be his friend. I knew whether or not we were friends he was going to be dating someone else. We live in a small community I had to brace myself for it friends or not. We go to the same places. We met through mutual friends and run in the same crowd.

I feel like these posts always highlight the negative which is true of most things on the internet. As humans we're much more likely to complain than we are to praise. He has a lot of great qualities and the reason I can't imagine not having him in my life is because he believes in me and he reminded me of who I want to be. The void in my life was me caring about myself. Maybe showing me that I meant something is all he was meant to do, but I think I'd be amiss if I didn't at least try to be friends. All feelings aside this is a good person to have in my life. Everyone has good and bad qualities and you have to decide what is acceptable and what is a deal breaker. However, I believe I am still carrying some feelings and I have to resolve those before deciding to continue the friendship. 

On 12/20/2020 at 7:50 AM, Wiseman2 said:

He's making a lot of sense. If you were intimate, it's wise to be exclusive.

He's smart to nix the dating/relationship aspect and friendzone you if you want to play the field or test drive others with him on the back burner.

While you are hanging out as friends, he'll probably look for and find someone who wants what he wants. An exclusive relationship.

If that's not what you're up for with him, be prepared to lose a friend when he finds someone more sure of him. 

He ended the relationship because he wasn't ready for us to be exclusive.

When I said I wasn't pushing for exclusivity, I meant that I hadn't brought it up or asked for it. When I was seeing him I wasn't seeing anyone else and if he had wanted to be exclusive that wouldn't have been an issue for me. Given the short duration of our dating I was willing to continue without exclusivity as far as seeing other people, but not sleeping with other people if we were going to continue having sex. Hopefully that makes sense.

On 12/20/2020 at 11:34 AM, poppyfields said:

Just had a chance to catch up with this thread. I've read it in its entirety.

So you were "together" for two weeks, what do you mean by together?  Dating, having sex?

You say you lacked strong boundaries, not sure what you mean by that either, in this context.  Do you mean sexually?

In any event, after a mere two weeks, he decided he only wanted to be friends. Or back to being just friends, since you were friends prior to being "together."

Second paragraph^, are you sure HE is feeling this crazy and intense chemistry as well?  Or is this you projecting your intense feelings on to him, which is quite common.

Reason I ask is I have never known a man who feels crazy and intense chemistry with a woman to only want a friendship unless he's a commitmentphobe/avoidant, in which case, I suggest you run as fast as you can away from him, as such men can really mess you up.

The way I see it, this is no "friendship" just a man who doesn't know what the hell he wants, enjoys keeping options open and dangling women on a string, which at 28 years of age is immature and frankly unacceptable imo.

My best advice, and advice given to me - raise your standards and choose more wisely.

Good luck moving forward.

 

23 hours ago, poppyfields said:

I agree it's confusing as OP has been quite evasive, not sure if intentional or not.

She claims it's complicated but it's not really.  

They were friends and perhaps there was a mutual attraction.

For two weeks, he pushed a "relationship" (i.e he wanted to have sex with her).

She admitted she lacked boundaries (i.e she had sex with him), after which he decided he did not want a relationship after all, and only wants "friends."

Apologies if this sounds harsh, but what a load of ****.

After only two weeks, he's not an ex.  He's a guy who pushed sex under the guise of wanting a relationship, got what he was after, and dumped.  

I know it's difficult to see it this way OP because of your "crazy and intense chemistry."  Yours, not his, otherwise he would not have dumped you.  Sorry, not gonna happen when a man is truly into you.

I would encourage you to walk away altogether, he's no friend.  

I could be wrong, just my $.02.

Being evasive is not intentional. I'm just trying to share my story without writing a novel. I also am not sure what I want/want to do. We are solid friends he helps me out a lot especially with good advice and support. I'm in a totally toxic work environment and he's really been there for me. He's cared about me unconditionally and supported me in anything I want to do. He's dropped whatever he's doing to help me when I need it and he's like that with all of his friends. He's incredibly generous and thoughtful and kind.

We were dating during that time period.

As far as boundaries go I don't mean sexually, but I really didn't have any boundaries with him or most people in my life and our time together really highlighted that for me. One example is when he said he wanted to meet all of my friends (and his) and my parents. I went along with it even though I felt like it was too soon. I didn't speak up. I also didn't have any emotional boundaries - I let myself get attached too quickly. We saw each other pretty much everyday and I should have been less available. This boundaries thing extends to other part of my life too - with my work and family and friends - and being mindful of this now is showing me a lot of things and I'm learning how to set better boundaries.

There's no way to know for sure what he's feeling all I can go off of is what he has told me, but he is the person who brought it up his feelings first.

I think the latter of what you suggested is correct he is not ready to commit. Everyone wants what they want and IMO there is nothing wrong with that. I think it's immature but at least he was honest with me about it.

In regards to the second response he did not need to push for a relationship to have sex with me. We had sex already (which I was/am 100% ok with) and I was fine with walking away, but he continued to take me out on dates and spend time with me. Then I got strep throat and he insisted that I come stay with him so he could take care of me, which he did. He introduced me to all of his friends. I could go on and on, it was only two weeks but we spent a lot of time together and did things that were not about sex that were initiated by him. In my honest opinion and he also agrees is that we just moved way too fast and when reality hit him he wasn't ready for it and when I suggested scaling back he said he didn't want to. 

I appreciate everyone's comments and insights a lot it's definitely been helpful. If he wasn't such a good friend this would be an easy call. Apart from the job stuff he's helping me out with I am just going to take some space for the next few weeks.

[stillafool]

8 minutes ago, amygirl908 said:

He is dating someone else and I still want to be his friend.

 

9 minutes ago, amygirl908 said:

I think the latter of what you suggested is correct he is not ready to commit.

So he's dating another girl but isn't committed to her yet?  Is it painful for you to know he's dating this other girl?

[amygirl908]

2 minutes ago, stillafool said:

 

So he's dating another girl but isn't committed to her yet?  Is it painful for you to know he's dating this other girl?

We didn't go into the details about the other girl so I don't really know. If it is painful it's on a subconscious level, but this is something I've really been preparing myself for and I really don't think I'm upset about it. 

[ExpatInItaly]

5 minutes ago, amygirl908 said:

I really don't think I'm upset about it. 

Then what is leading you to become an emotional wreck after spending time with him? (those were your words in your first post) 

Something is not lining up, and I think it's because you're having a hard time accepting that he doesn't feel the same way about you that you do about him. So you want to have him in your life but as more than friends, while he has already moved on. 

That's my read on it, for what it's worth. 

[amygirl908]

3 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Then what is leading you to become an emotional wreck after spending time with him? (those were your words in your first post) 

I think I have some lingering, residual feelings and I need some more time to let myself process them. After I've had some time to reflect, the last time we hung out we spent way too much time together and we did some things that we did as a couple - went to our favorite ice cream place and I stopped by his house for a little bit - which probably brought some lingering stuff to the surface for me. It didn't occur to me at the time that it might bother me but in future that's a boundary I have to set.

I think ultimately we need to define what this friendship between us is going to be like, but I need space to resolve the feelings. I'm really ok with us just being friends I am certain of that, I spent a long time considering that aspect after we stopped seeing each other. If he were to get serious with this girl or anyone else I'd be happy for him and I genuinely mean that.

I appreciate your take. When I initially posted I really didn't know why I was so bothered. Time, talking with others, and reflection has really helped me work through that.

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, amygirl908 said:

the last time we hung out we spent way too much time together and we did some things that we did as a couple - went to our favorite ice cream place and I stopped by his house for a little bit - which probably brought some lingering stuff to the surface for me.

These are normal things that friends do with each other when they hang out.  Even same couple friends do those things.  So if this somehow triggered you to break down and cry when you got home maybe that's a sign that you aren't emotionally ready to be his friend.  I can understand you wishing the best for him but maybe it's best to do it from afar.

[poppyfields]

4 hours ago, amygirl908 said:

We didn't go into the details about the other girl so I don't really know. If it is painful it's on a subconscious level, but this is something I've really been preparing myself for and I really don't think I'm upset about it. 

amygirl, I know you're gonna do what you want, but what I would really like to see is you moving away from this guy and this "friendship" for good.  What he did was downright insulting imo, I'd never accept that treatment nor should you.

Specifically this:

You wrote this in your opening post:

>> "He moved the relationship forward way too fast. I know why at this time it didn't work out and he's not ready for a relationship."

So again after pushing a "relationship" for a mere two weeks, essentially lovebombing you, he reverts back to a "friendship" because he's "not ready," but begins dating another girl?  Sorry, but wtf.

Apparently, he doesn't find you worthy to date (sorry) but finds this other girl worthy to date, and this whole "I'm not ready for a relationship" he tossed your way was a load of you know what.

Again, insulting. 

Please stay away from guys like this.  I realize you believe you have this special bond and in your original post described it as "crazy intense chemistry." I don't mean to be harsh I promise, but as an objective observer who is quite familiar with men like this, he is not a man seeking a genuine friendship with you, he is a man seeking orbiters to feed his oversized ego and need for attention.  And to fall back on when the girl he is truly into and wants a relationship with (the girl he is currently dating) dumps him.

Perhaps later down the road you will realize this too.  I truly hope so.

NEVER accept "sloppy seconds" as my mom used to say.  Or second best.  You're worth way more than that!

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by poppyfields

[Miss Spider]

Based on what you’ve said, it seems like you might feel even in the deepest, darkest recesses of your mind he may change his mind and you guys will end up together and happily ever after or something like that. I accept that I may be wrong about that, but if it’s the case, I do wish that for you but the odds just seem so so so stacked against. Especially considering he is dating someone else right now, so it’s not like a situational,  “he’s not ready/available at all” thing.  =/

Edited December 21, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[amygirl908]

On 12/21/2020 at 4:54 PM, stillafool said:

These are normal things that friends do with each other when they hang out.  Even same couple friends do those things.  So if this somehow triggered you to break down and cry when you got home maybe that's a sign that you aren't emotionally ready to be his friend.  I can understand you wishing the best for him but maybe it's best to do it from afar.

That's kind of the conclusion I've come to. Apart from the fact that he's passing along my resume to a few of his clients I don't plan on seeing him or really talking to him at a minimum until next month and then I'll reevaluate how I feel then.

On 12/21/2020 at 6:37 PM, poppyfields said:

amygirl, I know you're gonna do what you want, but what I would really like to see is you moving away from this guy and this "friendship" for good.  What he did was downright insulting imo, I'd never accept that treatment nor should you.

Specifically this:

You wrote this in your opening post:

>> "He moved the relationship forward way too fast. I know why at this time it didn't work out and he's not ready for a relationship."

So again after pushing a "relationship" for a mere two weeks, essentially lovebombing you, he reverts back to a "friendship" because he's "not ready," but begins dating another girl?  Sorry, but wtf.

Apparently, he doesn't find you worthy to date (sorry) but finds this other girl worthy to date, and this whole "I'm not ready for a relationship" he tossed your way was a load of you know what.

Again, insulting. 

Please stay away from guys like this.  I realize you believe you have this special bond and in your original post described it as "crazy intense chemistry." I don't mean to be harsh I promise, but as an objective observer who is quite familiar with men like this, he is not a man seeking a genuine friendship with you, he is a man seeking orbiters to feed his oversized ego and need for attention.  And to fall back on when the girl he is truly into and wants a relationship with (the girl he is currently dating) dumps him.

Perhaps later down the road you will realize this too.  I truly hope so.

NEVER accept "sloppy seconds" as my mom used to say.  Or second best.  You're worth way more than that!

He wasn't ready to be in a committed relationship with me and thought that it was more fair that we just stop seeing each other, so him dating doesn't really bother me. I think there are a lot of different lenses and angles in which you could look at this and I do appreciate your perspective. That's why I decided to post here I needed additional thoughts and perspectives.

He spent most of his adult life working, traveling for work and building a business with his dad. When I was in college and early 20s I was doing the same thing that he wants to do now - I was having fun, dating around, no commitments. Now I can be mad at him for leading me on, because he should know better than to do that, but I can't fault him for wanting to experience something I have already done that would be hypocritical of me. We're simply not at the same time in our lives.

Ultimately we run in the same circle and have mutual friends. We go to the same places. I can think of two weddings in 2021 that we will both be at. Maybe after I take some more space and time for myself I'll decide we'll just be friendly and not friends.

On 12/21/2020 at 6:47 PM, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Based on what you’ve said, it seems like you might feel even in the deepest, darkest recesses of your mind he may change his mind and you guys will end up together and happily ever after or something like that. I accept that I may be wrong about that, but if it’s the case, I do wish that for you but the odds just seem so so so stacked against. Especially considering he is dating someone else right now, so it’s not like a situational,  “he’s not ready/available at all” thing.  =/

Thank you SSLL. If that is true I definitely know it wouldn't happen anytime soon and my life won't be on hold for him. While I'm not actively looking for a relationship right now if an opportunity came by I wouldn't pass it up.

[stillafool]

25 minutes ago, amygirl908 said:

He wasn't ready to be in a committed relationship with me and thought that it was more fair that we just stop seeing each other, so him dating doesn't really bother me.

Your attitude is very mature about this because this would hurt my feelings.  I would think why her and not me.  That would be enough to remove myself from him because it would hurt too much.

[amygirl908]

27 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Your attitude is very mature about this because this would hurt my feelings.  I would think why her and not me.  That would be enough to remove myself from him because it would hurt too much.

In the past this really would have bothered me too. I think I've become more secure in myself and I really have no idea who this girl is and it's probably not going to be the last girl. So I tried to set my expectations accordingly.

There is a quote that has been really helpful over the past year and it is - "A flower does not think of competing with the flower next to it. It just blooms." - Zen Shin. Whenever I fell like I am feeling insecure and/or comparing myself to someone else I think of this and remind myself that I am on my own path, my own timeline.

Edited December 23, 2020 by amygirl908

[stillafool]

7 minutes ago, amygirl908 said:

Whenever I fell like I am feeling insecure and/or comparing myself to someone else I think of this and remind myself that I am on my own path, my own timeline.

I like your attitude.

[Miss Spider]

Yes, if you can stick to that attitude. That will be great. Detach yourself from any possible outcome. Then it will make the topic of this thread moot. You will not be hurt by anything he does because it won’t matter. 

The problem is, in my experience, it is very very difficult for a human being to do that. Monks spend their entire lives dedicated to practicing to perfect the art of detaching from outcomes/ego/ will and still don’t accomplish it. They believe they will reach a higher human experience by doing so. 
 

I think also if you were able to do it, the accomplishment of dating this guy would feel less... you wouldn’t want it as much because you would not value him as much. Sure, you value him as a person, and you would even value him as a friend and the person who helps you at a certain point in your life, but if you detached from the desire of dating him or even just valued yourself more, dating him wouldn’t matter. 
 

[edited to remove inappropriate language]

Edited December 24, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
edited to remove inappropriate language

[poppyfields]

9 hours ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

I think also if you were able to do it, the accomplishment of dating this guy would feel less... you wouldn’t want it as much because you would not value him as much. Sure, you value him as a person, and you would even value him as a friend and the person who helps you at a certain point in your life, but if you detached from the desire of dating him or even just valued yourself more, dating him wouldn’t matter. 
 

[edited to remove inappropriate language]

Hmm, I view "detaching from the outcome" a bit differently shortskirts, and it's not as daunting as you make it sound.  Buddhism and Eastern Philosophy promotes this and it doesn't mean you detach from your desire to date someone or from anything really.

It simply means you enjoy the process of dating someone or whatever your pursuit, allowing it all to unfold naturally and organically and to take you (and him if it's a dating experience) wherever it (the Universe or whatever your belief) is meant to take you.

Your focus is not where you end up (the outcome), but rather the process, the journey of getting there.

Maybe it's my nature, but I have never really put too much thought into the outcome, I have always just enjoyed dating a man I care about, and who cares about me, enjoying that journey, and allowing it all to unfold the way it's meant to.

That is not to say I don't have hope it works out in the long term, I just don't expect it, there's a difference.

If our connection is strong, I have faith and trust it will, but if it doesn't, I have faith and trust in myself too, and KNOW I will be okay.

Even now that I am getting married, I STILL stay detached from the outcome, choosing instead to enjoy the journey.   My fiancé feels the same which is one reason why we are so damn perfect for each other!

I know this attitude is off the beaten path that society has set for us, but I truly do feel this way, and it has made for much more enjoyable and fulfilling relationships.

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
edited to remove inappropriate language in quoted post

[Miss Spider]

37 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Hmm, I view "detaching from the outcome" a bit differently shortskirts, and it's not as daunting as you make it sound.  Buddhism and Eastern Philosophy promotes this and it doesn't mean you detach from your desire to date someone or from anything really.

It simply means you enjoy the process of dating someone or whatever your pursuit, allowing it all to unfold naturally and organically and to take you (and him if it's a dating experience) wherever it (the Universe or whatever your belief) is meant to take you.

Your focus is not where you end up (the outcome), but rather the process, the journey of getting there.

Maybe it's my nature, but I have never really put too much thought into the outcome, I have always just enjoyed dating a man I care about, and who cares about me, enjoying that journey, and allowing it all to unfold the way it's meant to.

That is not to say I don't have hope it works out in the long term, I just don't expect it, there's a difference.

If our connection is strong, I have faith and trust it will, but if it doesn't, I have faith and trust in myself too, and KNOW I will be okay.

Even now that I am getting married, I STILL stay detached from the outcome, choosing instead to enjoy the journey.   My fiancé feels the same which is one reason why we are so damn perfect for each other!

I know this attitude is off the beaten path that society has set for us, but I truly do feel this way, and it has made for much more enjoyable and fulfilling relationships.

 

 

 

Part of our incentive to go through the process is tied to our desire of having a certain outcome. Furthermore, part of desire for a certain outcome is tied to how much we value it. In eastern philosophy a lot of people practice denial of desires or asceticism long-term. The key difference is that for them , it is just not one thing, but all of life’s pleasures.It requires a total paradigm shift.
 

For example, let’s say someone wants to be a doctor. They want to be a doctor because of all of the values that they attached to that. They will be accomplished, they will gain respect, they will gain the ability to help others. They go through many years of training and education that they might find not enjoyable at all. That is part of the ‘process’ to get to their destination: become a doctor. Now, let’s say that they could detached of self from the outcome. They don’t care if they become a doctor or not. Not only would their incentive to have studied to get there be muted or killed, they would also have to mute the values that they attach to becoming a doctor.

I was applying this principle to the case of the OP. She wants relationship with this guy. She will be hurt to whatever extent(more or less) she is attached to that desire(obviously, less is the  goal here). This is all normal part of being denied something out will is attached to. If we are thirsty and we do not get a drink, we suffer.It’s to show us the juxtposition of where we are to our goal and in a “healthy individual“ it incentivizes action to move towards ur. Otherwise, we wouldn’t get out of bed. To  completely detached herself from the goal of being in a relationship with this guy, she will have to change her values that she has placed on this guy. How much that qualities he has matter to her and her life.  If she is able to lessen the values that she places on him whether through a intentional thought process or raising her self-esteem, it will automatically lessen the desire to date him. 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[poppyfields]

shortskirts, I don't disagree with your example about becoming a doctor, obviously if that is one's goal, then if that doesn't pan out in the end, they're going to be disappointed.

I am only suggesting that often times, as with relationships, it's best to enjoy the journey, the process of getting there, rather than getting there (the outcome).  I mean if it's meant to be, you WILL get there.  Have faith and trust in that process.  To me, that is what is meant by "detaching from the outcome" which is what I was responding to.

So often I hear men complain that they just started dating a woman, and her main focus is - where is this going?, what does it mean?, are we in a "relationship?," when can I call you my "boyfriend"?

Versus relaxing, and enjoying the ride, the journey, each other!   Doesn't that sound like more fun?  

Honestly, for me, I never much cared for knowing "where is this going?, or what does this mean? or are you my boyfriend?"  These are not questions I EVER asked myself OR any of my boyfriends.  I mean that in all sincerity.  

But you would really have to know me and my nature to understand that, which no one here does, which is why I feel I am often misunderstood or seen as some weird person who doesn't think like "normal" people.

That said, I DO understand what you're saying, I think it's how most people feel, and I do respect it.

I just don't agree with a lot of it, and you're right it IS some deep shyt. Too deep to dive into here!  

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by poppyfields

[FMW]

3 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

with relationships, it's best to enjoy the journey, the process of getting there, rather than getting there.  I mean if it's mean to be, you WILL get there. 

I very much agree.  This is my approach as well.  I'm old enough now to have realized how much of my life has zipped right by me without my actually being present in the moment and enjoying it because I was too busy worrying about what was next.  It's like the saying about life being what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.  

[Miss Spider]

I completely agree with you there. The focus be on actually enjoying the time that you spend with the person. But like I said, humans are goal driven. We don’t stay completely in the moment. We value things and work towards them. Whether that is good or bad is another argument, however, we would not have made the ‘achievements’ that we have had as a human species if we didn’t. Lots of people put in a lot of not-so-fun time to the future in order to make medical and scientific advancements.but that is all I will say about that

 

 So, I see a lot of times people want a ‘relationship’ with someone and are focused on it, it  is actually manifestation of their goal to have their enjoyment with the person be agreed to long term, or goal for more emotional intimacy from the person, or validation that comes with knowing you mean a lot to the person etc. These are all separate goals in themselves. They are not just one process, but lots of different processes. And just as legit as you  can enjoy your time with someone and still want” more”. I think it is actually happening here with OP. She wants “more” with this guy because he is holding back some forms of intimacy from her, he is spending time with another woman that he’s not spending with her,  he might even halt the process of her being in his life if the woman who means more to him tells him to... These are all most likely thoughts that OP has had at one time or another, and reasonable thoughts because she wants to be with him. 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Miss Spider]

TLDR, as I said before, I generally agree that it is “good” to be que sera sera about dating outcome. But I don’t know to what extent it is “good”  and what extent it is even possible when they like someone... at least for some people.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[poppyfields]

3 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

And just as legit as you  can enjoy your time with someone and still want” more”. I think it is actually happening here with OP. She wants “more” with this guy because he is holding back some forms of intimacy from her, he is spending time with another woman that he’s not spending with her,  he might even halt the process of her being in his life if the woman who means more to him tells him to... These are all most likely thoughts that OP has had at one time or another, and reasonable thoughts because she wants to be with him. 

Bolded, I agree with.  And these thought are reasonable, very much so.

Being "detached from the outcome," does not mean being detached from you feelings or desires of wanting "more" or anything else.    And speaking only for myself (should I ever find myself single again) if I wanted "more" from a man than what he was currently giving, I would remove my focus from him giving me more, and instead place my focus on why am I choosing to continue dating him?

And would stop dating him, and look for a man who could meet my needs and give me what I wanted.

 

[poppyfields]

13 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

TLDR, as I said before, I generally agree that it is “good” to be que sera sera about dating outcome. But I don’t know to what extent it is “good”  and what extent it is even possible when they like someone... at least for some people.

Yeah I truly don't know why this has always been easy for me.  It's really not even anything I have thought about to any great extent.  I only started thinking about it when I first started posting on forums and read so many threads from women with this mindset.

I am NOT judging any of them, it seems like the natural thing to be concerned about it -- where it's going, what the outcome will be.

I don't even consider myself a "detached avoidant" or whatever it's called, because I am not an emotionally detached person.  I just don't place too much value on the outcome, preferring to enjoy the journey of getting there because anything can change from literally one day to the next.

I suppose I just accept that, which makes it easier to "let go" of the outcome.  But like I said, I haven't put too much thought into it, other than it's always been my nature.

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by poppyfields

[Miss Spider]

1 minute ago, poppyfields said:

Bolded, I agree with.  And these thought are reasonable, very much so.

Being "detached from the outcome," does not mean being detached from you feelings or desires of wanting "more" or anything else.    And speaking only for myself (should I ever find myself single again) if I wanted "more" from a man than what he was currently giving, I would remove my focus from him giving me more, and instead place my focus on why am I choosing to continue dating him?

And would stop dating him, and look for a man who could meet my needs and give me what I wanted.

 

So, you are shifting your goal. You are leaving behind the goal of wanting to be with him and detaching yourself from that outcome. However you are not detaching yourself from all outcomes. You are making process towards the outcome you want...Whatever that “more”...But perhaps with a  different person

 

I was saying that I do not think it is possible to completely detach yourself from a particular outcome and still value it.