Can this work

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, trident_2020 said:

Your point is NOT proven. When I was online dating I only contacted women who are attractive. That "gets them in the door".

Their personality, perspectives, intelligence, depth or lack thereof ultimately makes or breaks it.

And I'm anything BUT superficial. I simply don't want to be with a fat ugly chick.

But some fat ugly chicks get guys and ugly guys get chicks.

You get no one. For reasons that have been clearly explained to you over more than a decade of posts.

You simply choose to ignore it and go in the same circles in your head.

 

 

Hahahah. Sorry I had to laugh. If I only swiped on ones I found attractive I would have not matches at all. ALL my matches come from BOOST. Which goes to show you are far more universally attractive than me.

Sure, we agree that looks get you in the door, that is the point I am trying to make. Or one of them at least.

No, I get nobody because, well I should just be happy and take whoever likes me irrespective. I have done endless different profiles, different apps, different pictures, make overs, restyles, be more confident but you know what I am happy to just cut my losses on all that. Walk around bitter and jaded because if I go and look, at least once a day every single belief I have based on experience will be proven to be correct. I am HAPPY you and others DONT have the experiences I HAVE. I am genuinely happy.

Oh sorry I get nobody because I am a naughty boy and should not be looking at athletic dynamic great people, I should keep my nose down and look at the ground and never look around me, never have any aspirations at all. 

I am just inferior to everyone, I need to know my place and my "league". 

Must remember that. 

Everything I like is unrealistic.

Must remember that too.

[trident_2020]

12 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Hahahah. Sorry I had to laugh. If I only swiped on ones I found attractive I would have not matches at all. ALL my matches come from BOOST. Which goes to show you are far more universally attractive than me.

Sure, we agree that looks get you in the door, that is the point I am trying to make.

No your point was clearly about people wanting only attractive partners being superficial.

ZA you can't even follow your own reasoning.

[Weezy1973]

51 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

My entire outlook is driven by experiences, very few of them good so can you blame me for having this outlook?

Whether your outlook is justified by your experiences or not is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is whether or not it’s helpful. And it clearly is not.

[BaileyB]

34 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

One thing I want to add here, I had a coffee with K, her advice "I never liked my bf initially, did not even want to be friends with him but he won me around and we were friends first" which I guess does show for some the friends route can work.

It means that her attraction grew, as she got to know the man more. Which is what we are all saying... what makes someone attractive to another person is more complex than physical appearance. 

He likely didn’t win her around by being her friend. He put his best foot forward - he showed interest in her, she got to know him more, and she decided to date the man. Sure, they may have been “friends first” but he must have pursued her such that she began to consider him as more than a friend. 

A man can not “win” a woman by being her friend... 

And, you do like hearing stories of people who have found what they are looking for... but, you remain very stuck in your rigid beliefs about women and relationships. It’s the equivalent of “yeah but, now let me tell you what I really think...” It’s how you respond to virtually every post in this discussion. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by BaileyB

[SumGuy]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

They value looks more. Sorry to say miss whoever sits down in a club/bar she is going to want the best looking guy, not sure she even cares about his personality, she will always talk to that guy first and chances are he can flirt and has all those other things too.

Who cares who she talks to first, if you are all about the bar pick up scene what is important is who she talks to last.  You also really shouldn't equate the bar pick-up scene with typically how people find something other than a ONS.

Also...if this is the scene...you talk to her, don't sit around waiting for her to approach you.  And when you approach her you do get to speak and don't have to rely on your looks alone.

[SumGuy]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

My point is clear and its continually disputed: looks matter more than anything else, superficial matters more than anything else......

Bottom line is I know absolutely NOBODY who has superficial qualities who struggles at dating.

...

I think I will stop nay-saying you because if I accept what you are saying I must be one damn fine specimen, granted I keep in shape but not going to win any body builder contests or get my own calendar/

I must have really been all that when poor...despite women approaching me in tatty clothes and choosing me over well dressed men.   

You should perhaps move to the US, I'm not certain I look any better than you if the photo is you....you'd be Adonis here.

Quote

Odd really when I am told these qualities have no value and the self same qualities I DO actually have, do have value.

This is going to be harsh, but do you?  Do you have emotional intelligence?  Even if you do, is it countered by other negative personality traits?

 

Quote

Maybe I am living on another planet.

More your own world, how hard it is to change it, do not know. 

I live in my own world, one where the women in it are not first and foremost drawn to the superficial qualities you set forth...amazingly attractive women (just some examples which may meet your standards so you don't think only "ugly" women are this way, one a TV anchor, another a beauty pageant winner for her state, etc.)...really when you remove the gold diggers, it is ALL about personality and emotional intelligence with such women (if you meet a minimum looks bar, a low bar and from you pic you certainly could meet it). Alas though, that emotional intelligence bar is a high one.  They have been hit on by the braggart, chiseled stud, rich dude, and many others ohh so many times.

Edited April 15, 2021 by SumGuy

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

It means that her attraction grew, as she got to know the man more. Which is what we are all saying... what makes someone attractive to another person is more complex than physical appearance. 

He likely didn’t win her around by being her friend. He put his best foot forward - he showed interest in her, she got to know him more, and she decided to date the man. Sure, they may have been “friends first” but he must have pursued her such that she began to consider him as more than a friend. 

A man can not “win” a woman by being her friend... 

And, you do like hearing stories of people who have found what they are looking for... but, you remain very stuck in your rigid beliefs about women and relationships. It’s the equivalent of “yeah but, now let me tell you what I really think...” It’s how you respond to virtually every post in this discussion. 

What do you think I tried to do? Well clearly some do by being her friend but again he wins in some superficial quality too...my beliefs are based on my experiences which cannot be discounted just because they are not the same as yours. 

People who find success make me believe on some level I too can find success.

[normal person]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

If I never find anything ever again I will at least know for a time I had exactly what I wanted and that is enough. Its better to have had something I really wanted for a short time than to never have it at all.

If being this woman's friend is "exactly what you wanted," then what's the problem? Aren't you still friends? Still talking? If this is all you wanted, then I don't understand the need for all the rest of this anymore. 

[ZA Dater]

56 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

Who cares who she talks to first, if you are all about the bar pick up scene what is important is who she talks to last.  You also really shouldn't equate the bar pick-up scene with typically how people find something other than a ONS.

Also...if this is the scene...you talk to her, don't sit around waiting for her to approach you.  And when you approach her you do get to speak and don't have to rely on your looks alone.

All very good and well but who is she going to be more interested in a shy inexperienced guy or the super confident guy, maybe the former can get by with some very superficial luck but most of the time he wont even get a look. I am tired of being told people do not meet people at bars and clubs for the last time WHERE do people meet them then, mutual friends, OK I concede that might be possible, in the bookstore, that is nonsense as far as I concerned, mutual interest, maybe but honestly barring mutual friends I have no idea where people meet their dates.

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, normal person said:

If being this woman's friend is "exactly what you wanted," then what's the problem? Aren't you still friends? Still talking? If this is all you wanted, then I don't understand the need for all the rest of this anymore. 

What I had was the dating experience I wanted......within what I can actually do I did try to move things on and when I did I got the very cold shoulder(which I still have to some degree) which in some ways was good because it showed me once again how this whole system works. The same way its always worked and the same way I always am the one getting rejected, irrespective what I do. The point I am making remains superficial does matter a great deal to the point other things can be looked over. 

But them again it would seem every single person here gets to date people they really like and this is as easy as falling off a bus at rush hour. Must be truly fantastic, its a pity the forum members cannot see who I match with because I'd guess very few here would ever consider meeting up with any of them.

[normal person]

Just now, ZA Dater said:

What I had was the dating experience I wanted

This was a "dating experience?"

[ZA Dater]

40 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

I think I will stop nay-saying you because if I accept what you are saying I must be one damn fine specimen, granted I keep in shape but not going to win any body builder contests or get my own calendar/

I must have really been all that when poor...despite women approaching me in tatty clothes and choosing me over well dressed men.   

You should perhaps move to the US, I'm not certain I look any better than you if the photo is you....you'd be Adonis here.

This is going to be harsh, but do you?  Do you have emotional intelligence?  Even if you do, is it countered by other negative personality traits?

 

More your own world, how hard it is to change it, do not know. 

I live in my own world, one where the women in it are not first and foremost drawn to the superficial qualities you set forth...amazingly attractive women (just some examples which may meet your standards so you don't think only "ugly" women are this way, one a TV anchor, another a beauty pageant winner for her state, etc.)...really when you remove the gold diggers, it is ALL about personality and emotional intelligence with such women (if you meet a minimum looks bar, a low bar and from you pic you certainly could meet it). Alas though, that emotional intelligence bar is a high one.  They have been hit on by the braggart, chiseled stud, rich dude, and many others ohh so many times.

Yes you are right a lot is countered off but I reckon if you walked a few years in my shoes you'd have many of the same traits I do. Charm can go a heck of a long way I have seen this often, there are guys who are not great looking but combine material success with charm and well they do not struggle at all, my charm comment is not directed at you by the way, its an off cuff comment.

I am just slim and skinny, I was once told I am handsome but that not much of compliment really so I give compliments far more often than I receive them which is fine, I am happy with that. 

As for that women are drawn to, I'd like to believe that, really I would and this time I actually thought I might actually find that but alas the same status quo remains as it always has. But you know I will concede there is everything wrong with me and nothing right so yeah its all good really, I get to walk around with a huge chip on my shoulder which again I can carry because why would it not? I am good enough when women want a shoulder to cry on and guy to listen to them or when its 6am and they have a flat tyre, yeah I am the guy they call which I guess tells me everything about my role and use in life.

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, normal person said:

This was a "dating experience?"

For me it was yes. Never have I been able to spend so much time with one person, dinners, lunches, days, breakfasts. Never have actually done activities walks on the beach, shopping trips, relax in the evening. She bought me dinner, I bought her dinner, we tried to new eating places, went for walks. We had long chats, shared thoughts on life, past experiences, ambitions, things we like, things we don't like, upbringing, family etc. Everything just worked and flowed.

It was what I imagined would be good about dating someone less any physical intimacy. 

You compare that experience to sitting at a table and trying to drag 30 min of conversation where they ask me nothing and take no interest and yes for me the above for dating.

[normal person]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

For me it was yes. Never have I been able to spend so much time with one person, dinners, lunches, days, breakfasts. Never have actually done activities walks on the beach, shopping trips, relax in the evening. She bought me dinner, I bought her dinner, we tried to new eating places, went for walks. We had long chats, shared thoughts on life, past experiences, ambitions, things we like, things we don't like, upbringing, family etc. Everything just worked and flowed.

It was what I imagined would be good about dating someone less any physical intimacy. 

Ok, what I'm saying is if this is exactly what you wanted and nothing more, then what's the issue? You got it, and you shouldn't have any issue maintaining it. So are you happy now? 

[trident_2020]

3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

You compare that experience to sitting at a table and trying to drag 30 min of conversation where they ask me nothing and take no interest and yes for me the above for dating.

They’re not comparable one is a prerequisite for the other. We ALL go through bad boring first dates. Unlike you however most of us get plenty of subsequent better dates that do result in relaxing evenings, walks on the beach AND the intimacy that you crave. 
 

One reason is we don’t play “eternal victim” and we learn, change and adapt from our experiences including successes and failures as compared to doing absolutely nothing different and whining about it for years. 

 

[ZA Dater]

23 minutes ago, trident_2020 said:

They’re not comparable one is a prerequisite for the other. We ALL go through bad boring first dates. Unlike you however most of us get plenty of subsequent better dates that do result in relaxing evenings, walks on the beach AND the intimacy that you crave. 
 

One reason is we don’t play “eternal victim” and we learn, change and adapt from our experiences including successes and failures as compared to doing absolutely nothing different and whining about it for years. 

 

I'd also like to think you find the person sitting opposite you attractive and you aren't simply there because there is nobody else to choose from so you go hoping well they are more attractive in person.

I am simply not going back to that formula again. And it's not big loss to my life not doing that either. It's great to be off OLD and have no matches whatsoever, at least then I can actually fool myself into believing I am attractive to people I find attractive even though they wouldn't look twice on OLD

 

[ZA Dater]

29 minutes ago, normal person said:

Ok, what I'm saying is if this is exactly what you wanted and nothing more, then what's the issue? You got it, and you shouldn't have any issue maintaining it. So are you happy now? 

Yea minus the cold shoulder. It's like anything really good, you simply want more of it more often. Which in this case isn't possible.

At least you sort of get why I enjoyed it more than any date I have had.

 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I'd also like to think you find the person sitting opposite you attractive and you aren't simply there because there is nobody else to choose from so you go hoping well they are more attractive in person.

I think you'll find that those who give others the chance to let their personality shine without relying on the superficial have LOADS of people to choose from.  After all, these are the regular couples you see in the street everyday.   They aren't sitting around bemoaning their eternal singledom.

[basil67]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

They value looks more. Sorry to say miss whoever sits down in a club/bar she is going to want the best looking guy, not sure she even cares about his personality, she will always talk to that guy first and chances are he can flirt and has all those other things too.

I think that you really don't listen to the lived stories we tell you.  

[basil67]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

My point is clear and its continually disputed: looks matter more than anything else, superficial matters more than anything else" with respect its easy to sit and chime in when you have success, very easy to say do this do that but how many people would actually for example go over to the poorly dressed guy over the well dressed one, choose the guy with the Mazda over the Maserati, choose dinner at Mc Donalds over a Michelin star restaurant. How many ACTUALLY would, my guess is VERY few given the choice, its easier to hide behind "well his personality and this and that" but the truth is I have been meeting people for 20 years and EVERYTIME I come against the superficial its a a loss of note. 

Why do you talk in extremes?

We can meet people anywhere we go.  So if I start chatting to a guy in the hardware store, the poorly dressed guy is simply in his working clothes (and probably knows how to fix things. Bonus points!!).   In the supermarket, he's in his casual clothes.   Perfectly normal and acceptable in the dating world.  But yes, if one is at a venue which requires a certain degree of attire, then yes, a guy who understands the etiquette is going to win.

McDonalds vs Michelin?  I would say that both play a small role in my life.  Nothing wrong with Maccas when you're on the run or hungover.  And Michelin for an anniversary or birthday would be a lovely treat.   But day to day?   We're at the local Thai or Italian.   Or jointly cooking up a storm in our own kitchen.  

But Maserati vs Mazda?  This made me laugh and laugh.  Maserati driver: pretentious wanker.  Doesn't care that the burbling of his car can be heard from a suburb away and that he drives his neighbours nuts with the noise and vibration.    Mazda driver:  Solid, reliable, dependable.   So me?  I'll take the Mazda driver hands down.  There's not even a competition there.   

 

[Trail Blazer]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I'd also like to think you find the person sitting opposite you attractive and you aren't simply there because there is nobody else to choose from so you go hoping well they are more attractive in person.

I am simply not going back to that formula again. And it's not big loss to my life not doing that either. It's great to be off OLD and have no matches whatsoever, at least then I can actually fool myself into believing I am attractive to people I find attractive even though they wouldn't look twice on OLD

 

But you only find three percent of the female population attractive.  So, who's fault is that, really?

[Trail Blazer]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

No they are all on Tinder, none match with me. 

What percentage of women on Tinder do you find genuinely attractive physically?

[5x5]

18 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Maybe I am living on another planet.

It seems highly likely.

[5x5]

10 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

For me it was yes. 

Yet she wasn't dating you at all, so no you weren't dating her. Please stop deluding yourself.

[ZA Dater]

26 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

Yet she wasn't dating you at all, so no you weren't dating her. Please stop deluding yourself.

Was still a good experience.