Can this work

March 15, 2021

7 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I don't have a chance because I have no experience and no qualities which have any value, I am trying to sell ice to an Eskimo. And besides even if I did manage that the first kiss would very quickly end any date and any chance.

All this whole experience showed me is how totally useless the qualities I have are and what my so called friends really think of me.

Stop this. You're basing your view as 'being unwanted by women' on the fact that you've been constantly rejected by a small subset of conventionally attractive women. The same women who reject many, many men because so many men take a shot.

However, OLD has shown that not all women reject you. Some women reach out to you. Yes, you can reject them, as is your prerogative - but don't go telling us that no women have ever shown interest.

March 15, 2021

8 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Stop this. You're basing your view as 'being unwanted by women' on the fact that you've been constantly rejected by a small subset of conventionally attractive women. The same women who reject many, many men because so many men take a shot.

However, OLD has shown that not all women reject you. Some women reach out to you. Yes, you can reject them, as is your prerogative - but don't go telling us that no women have ever shown interest.

No mutual interest I consider to be no interest at all.

March 15, 2021

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

My fury is mostly reserved for myself but a portion of it also lies at the feet of my closest friends who love trying to set me up and go to extraordinary lengths to try with the most unsuitable people, people so fantastic none of them will date these people but somehow they are "fantastic' for me.

Yet when I find someone I like this help disappears, they all know I need all the help I can get yet I never get any support yet when their relationships go wrong who is there to support.

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

No it's a lot of bs, he with the biggest wallet, the best looks, the best charm and the biggest lie will always win. Sorry absolutely Nothing I have ever seen has disproven that and once again it's been proven to be true.

Nothing you've seen has ever disproven it? By your logic, every man in a relationship is a smooth talking CEO underwear model with a yacht. You're saying every man you know (including relatives, friends, etc) is just a selfish liar. You know that's not true and you're again wasting peoples' time trying to use this an explanation. That's basically a slap in the face to people here who gave you 20 pages of free, honest, advice about how to navigate a situation openly and without deceiving someone out of the goodness of their hearts. I understand your frustration but this really isn't garnering you any sympathy. C'mon, it's time to grow up.

Also, this whole situation with everyone around you strikes me as odd. What universe are you living in? If all the people you know and hang around are incessantly deceiving women to sleep with them, maybe you just hang around with bad people? I certainly wouldn't want to be friends (or even in the same proximity) with people like that, I've actively cut ties with people who have acted in that way. It seems so strange to me that you present yourself as this selfless, generous, virtuous white knight and seemingly your only frame of reference for romantic success is this underhanded, remorseless, deception conducted by your friends and peers. Isn't your friendship with these people a tacit endorsement of their behavior, in a way? I've got to wonder why someone who presents himself as such a kind, bookish, downtrodden, peaceful guy, keeps company with anyone whose behavior he seems to be so embittered by, who won't help him in any meaningful way. If you feel your friends treat you unfairly, or that they act in a way that you think is deceptive and it makes you feel bad to be associated with them, why don't you talk to them about it? You're 36 years old. You have agency. I know this is getting off topic but your friends should be people with whom you have similar values, who can help you in areas people here can't. Why can't they give you any honest advice or guidance? Why can't you ask them why they won't? Why is everyone around you seemingly awful? Don't tell me it's "the culture" because I live in a city renowned as a haven for the competitive, deceptive, and self-interested, and I have no problem avoiding people like that or cutting them out of my life if they somehow slip in. My friends are nice, normal, well intentioned people in honest relationships. I'd help them out and they'd help me out if needed.

Either you're mischaracterizing and/or dramatizing the whole social scene in which you live, or you need to explain why you don't have some more honest conversations with your friends about reciprocity, how they can help you get what you want, and maybe some other things. They should be able to help you more with these situations going forward, but it seems like you don't have any hope for that. Why not?

March 15, 2021

15 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

No mutual interest I consider to be no interest at all.

Except that it's not factually true. And as it's not factually true, you won't get any sympathy.

Much like how I'm unlikely to get sympathy when I look in a wardrobe of clothes and bemoan "I have nothing to wear!"

March 16, 2021

3 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Most people have some success, but certainly not everybody. But to be clear the people that don’t succeed aren’t victims of the world. They’re doing it to themselves, just like you.

That's too black and white to be true about everyone who doesn't experience dating success.

March 16, 2021

1 hour ago, normal person said:

Also, this whole situation with everyone around you strikes me as odd. What universe are you living in? If all the people you know and hang around are incessantly deceiving women to sleep with them, maybe you just hang around with bad people?

My guess, is he’s stuck in high school. He perceives these friends to be the “cool kids” and being friends with them somehow validates himself. Very high school. If you actually read the whole thread as if a 16 year old were writing it, most of us would be able to relate.

March 16, 2021

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

No mutual interest I consider to be no interest at all.

But you have to take some responsibility for this. What have you done to make yourself more attractive to these women?

March 16, 2021

5 hours ago, normal person said:

Nothing you've seen has ever disproven it? By your logic, every man in a relationship is a smooth talking CEO underwear model with a yacht. You're saying every man you know (including relatives, friends, etc) is just a selfish liar. You know that's not true and you're again wasting peoples' time trying to use this an explanation. That's basically a slap in the face to people here who gave you 20 pages of free, honest, advice about how to navigate a situation openly and without deceiving someone out of the goodness of their hearts. I understand your frustration but this really isn't garnering you any sympathy. C'mon, it's time to grow up.

Also, this whole situation with everyone around you strikes me as odd. What universe are you living in? If all the people you know and hang around are incessantly deceiving women to sleep with them, maybe you just hang around with bad people? I certainly wouldn't want to be friends (or even in the same proximity) with people like that, I've actively cut ties with people who have acted in that way. It seems so strange to me that you present yourself as this selfless, generous, virtuous white knight and seemingly your only frame of reference for romantic success is this underhanded, remorseless, deception conducted by your friends and peers. Isn't your friendship with these people a tacit endorsement of their behavior, in a way? I've got to wonder why someone who presents himself as such a kind, bookish, downtrodden, peaceful guy, keeps company with anyone whose behavior he seems to be so embittered by, who won't help him in any meaningful way. If you feel your friends treat you unfairly, or that they act in a way that you think is deceptive and it makes you feel bad to be associated with them, why don't you talk to them about it? You're 36 years old. You have agency. I know this is getting off topic but your friends should be people with whom you have similar values, who can help you in areas people here can't. Why can't they give you any honest advice or guidance? Why can't you ask them why they won't? Why is everyone around you seemingly awful? Don't tell me it's "the culture" because I live in a city renowned as a haven for the competitive, deceptive, and self-interested, and I have no problem avoiding people like that or cutting them out of my life if they somehow slip in. My friends are nice, normal, well intentioned people in honest relationships. I'd help them out and they'd help me out if needed.

Either you're mischaracterizing and/or dramatizing the whole social scene in which you live, or you need to explain why you don't have some more honest conversations with your friends about reciprocity, how they can help you get what you want, and maybe some other things. They should be able to help you more with these situations going forward, but it seems like you don't have any hope for that. Why not?

Good thing about our friends is that we choose them. We are the directors of the movie that is our life, we get to pick the cast. OP doesn't take responsibility for his love life.

I don't think it's that his friends haven't helped him, it's that he's rejected their help the same way he's rejected evereyone's advice on here. Somehow, he thinks he knows best.

March 16, 2021

2 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

Good thing about our friends is that we choose them. We are the directors of the movie that is our life, we get to pick the cast. OP doesn't take responsibility for his love life.

I don't think it's that his friends haven't helped him, it's that he's rejected their help the same way he's rejected evereyone's advice on here. Somehow, he thinks he knows best.

Sure, their interpretation of help is set me up with people I am completely incompatible with. Why would I for example want to date someone who goes to trance parties every other weekend or someone who likes to go out all the time or the best one yet, put the poor person on the spot "hey why don't you go out with ABC" the look of horror on the poor ladies face cannot be hidden.

No, when I actually need some help its never around but that is true I can just remove myself from this and I did, I asked to not be set up with anyone because of the above and because its a case of "well that is good enough for him".

March 16, 2021

7 hours ago, basil67 said:

Except that it's not factually true. And as it's not factually true, you won't get any sympathy.

Much like how I'm unlikely to get sympathy when I look in a wardrobe of clothes and bemoan "I have nothing to wear!"

It is factually true, I have never ever found anyone I like where the interest is reciprocated. By this forums logic that is normal and nobody ever gets mutual attraction everyone spends 10 dates convincing the person sitting in front of them is attractive.

March 16, 2021

7 hours ago, normal person said:

Nothing you've seen has ever disproven it? By your logic, every man in a relationship is a smooth talking CEO underwear model with a yacht. You're saying every man you know (including relatives, friends, etc) is just a selfish liar. You know that's not true and you're again wasting peoples' time trying to use this an explanation. That's basically a slap in the face to people here who gave you 20 pages of free, honest, advice about how to navigate a situation openly and without deceiving someone out of the goodness of their hearts. I understand your frustration but this really isn't garnering you any sympathy. C'mon, it's time to grow up.

Also, this whole situation with everyone around you strikes me as odd. What universe are you living in? If all the people you know and hang around are incessantly deceiving women to sleep with them, maybe you just hang around with bad people? I certainly wouldn't want to be friends (or even in the same proximity) with people like that, I've actively cut ties with people who have acted in that way. It seems so strange to me that you present yourself as this selfless, generous, virtuous white knight and seemingly your only frame of reference for romantic success is this underhanded, remorseless, deception conducted by your friends and peers. Isn't your friendship with these people a tacit endorsement of their behavior, in a way? I've got to wonder why someone who presents himself as such a kind, bookish, downtrodden, peaceful guy, keeps company with anyone whose behavior he seems to be so embittered by, who won't help him in any meaningful way. If you feel your friends treat you unfairly, or that they act in a way that you think is deceptive and it makes you feel bad to be associated with them, why don't you talk to them about it? You're 36 years old. You have agency. I know this is getting off topic but your friends should be people with whom you have similar values, who can help you in areas people here can't. Why can't they give you any honest advice or guidance? Why can't you ask them why they won't? Why is everyone around you seemingly awful? Don't tell me it's "the culture" because I live in a city renowned as a haven for the competitive, deceptive, and self-interested, and I have no problem avoiding people like that or cutting them out of my life if they somehow slip in. My friends are nice, normal, well intentioned people in honest relationships. I'd help them out and they'd help me out if needed.

Either you're mischaracterizing and/or dramatizing the whole social scene in which you live, or you need to explain why you don't have some more honest conversations with your friends about reciprocity, how they can help you get what you want, and maybe some other things. They should be able to help you more with these situations going forward, but it seems like you don't have any hope for that. Why not?

Ok let me put this as diplomatically as I can. You of all people know all too well that certain people have better choices than others, sure you can graft and improve but inherently you cannot tell me that the average guy who makes an effort to look good, has good manners, is presentable, fairly intelligent will ever win out against the guy with better looks, more resources. You yourself have told me this many times, they want the best provider, they want the best whatever. So yes you have actually validated all I types above.

The difference is I do not go to parties and events with these friends anymore because of this but the reason is also miss 29yo isnt going to be interested in me when Mr 48 yo has all the resources, good looks and charm I do not have. Its a like walking in the ring with a heavy weight champion I just get obliterated. Anything I have that might be good has zero value there and I am not looking to bed them in the next 3 hours, I am actually looking to take them to dinner and get to know them. So yes I look at that and the reality is the allure of looks, money, status, fun, flirting and physical interaction trumps anything I have to offer.

No honest advice is really forthcoming besides "oh it happens to me to", hardly meaningful advice to someone who has never had any success and they know it. At the end of the day I am just inferior to them and get treated accordingly, when I asked advice about this lady I was totally dissuaded from the idea, it would have been extremely easy for help to be forthcoming has he knows her very well. But the very next weekend "oh she has a friend with three kids" why would I be interested in someone with three kids? Worse still usually follows "you know ABC is hot" when ABC simply is not because if they were said friend would be all over her.

Truthfully the only thing that keeps me going is me helping others in some way, be it words of encouragement, believing in their ability to accomplish something a lot of this has been fostered from the frankly terrible dating time I have had, at least I can give back in some sort of way and in my mind rebalance the scales a bit.

Effectively I am just going to give up because its obvious I cant play this game because I simply do not know how to and while this would be acceptable in 20yo I cant really explain it away at nearly 37. At some point logic has to kick in here and this is really that point. For years I tried to work with what I have but its clearly not enough, there was enough inherently right about this situation to say I had a better chance than ever but again I am just not good enough. This was the first time I got to spend any degree of time with someone I liked and felt comfortable opening up to so that in itself is quite telling.

All I am is bitter that I cant conjure up any sort of success while its so easy for others. Time to just move on really, absolutely nothing that I can do will change anything.

March 16, 2021

Unfortunately ya see , there it is again right there. That's not even ball park the forums logic or what people are trying to say. But any future is really up to more so you than women bc if you don't shake the black and white and your barrel load of negativity l'm afraid you'll be right and may as well just quit now.

March 16, 2021

7 minutes ago, chillii said:

Unfortunately ya see , there it is again right there. That's not even ball park the forums logic or what people are trying to say. But any future is really up to more so you than women bc if you don't shake the black and white and your barrel load of negativity l'm afraid you'll be right and may as well just quit now.

I fully intend to quit now. Negativity based on experience not thoughts. You have endless rejection and tell me you wont be negative, can you honestly say that. I started off very positive about my prospects here because for once someone seemed to appreciate what I am actually good at.

Again I just have nothing people want, hardly their fault really.

March 16, 2021

A woman who is prepared to date a guy who is almost 50! and way way older than she is, apparently for his money, is not really the cream of the crop is she?
She is a in fact a gold digger, to put it bluntly...
You are so dismissive of women who want to climb the ladder by dating you. Ugh!!! they are just so low.
Yet Miss IGModel is given a pass, as she is just soooo attractive...
Time to take her off that pedestal you have put her on.
Get rid of your frat party mates with their gold digger entourage and try to find some decent, honest normal people to hang about with.

March 16, 2021

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

A woman who is prepared to date a guy who is almost 50! and way way older than she is, apparently for his money, is not really the cream of the crop is she?
She is a in fact a gold digger, to put it bluntly...
You are so dismissive of women who want to climb the ladder by dating you. Ugh!!! they are just so low.
Yet Miss IGModel is given a pass, as she is just soooo attractive...
Time to take her off that pedestal you have put her on.
Get rid of your frat party mates with their gold digger entourage and try to find some decent, honest normal people to hang about with.

I have no idea why she finds someone 16 years older than her a viable option but like me she has had friends set her up with him and no doubt extoll his virtues. That's my point, my friends did nothing to help me her whatsoever barring dissuade me from the idea. Obviously she wants what he is offering but I am completely oblivious as to what that might actually be. Point is all my losses all have the same thing in common I am loosing out to the same type of people, last time it was a trust fund kid, whose father ironically works at the same company as this guy does. Its really about being valued enough and people do not value me at all.

I am dismissive of people who want to climb the ladder but do no work at all, I actually have worked pretty hard to integrate myself in a very different world, people who others find intimidating do not intimidate me, I am quite happy to get into robust discussions with very successful people and go toe to toe with them, I am able to garner respect from them.

Normal people, what are those?

At the end of the day it is what it is and will always be the same, time has proven that beyond doubt. Like a cyst I need to cut dating out completely and remove any aspirations I may have of having any sort of company around me, I wont lie its really great to as I have spend time with someone who engages me the way she does, most cant be bothered.

March 16, 2021

19 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

. Obviously she wants what he is offering but I am completely oblivious as to what that might actually be.

Um... money?
How old was her late husband?
Does she have a thing for older men?

March 16, 2021

5 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Um... money?
How old was her late husband?
Does she have a thing for older men?

She has enough money of her own. He was also 40's.

"What I am selling people they aint buying" That is the reality of it.

Maybe she simply likes older guys, who knows but again that being the case I once again do not match up. I just concede and not for the first time the things I thought people value they simply do not and perhaps she simply just felt sorry for me after hearing my story and made more an effort to try and build me up, show me how good it can be, this is a fairly likely possibility actually. Virtually everything this forum knows about me she knows about me barring the fact I am a virgin but I am sure she has worked that out already.

March 16, 2021

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

miss 29yo isnt going to be interested in me when Mr 48 yo has all the resources, good looks and charm I do not have. Its a like walking in the ring with a heavy weight champion I just get obliterated.

I won't lie and say money, looks, status, etc aren't very important to lots of people, but for you to suggest it's all that matters to everyone is quite a reach. Will having these things improve your odds of success? I really think so, some might disagree. I think most people would prefer good looking, successful people, but not everyone can end up with someone like that. Is every man in a relationship that you know of good looking and wealthy? I sincerely doubt it. Not every man can end up with a super model and not every woman can end up with a CEO. Realistic expectations and things of the sort eventually bring people down to Earth about what kind of partner is appropriate and attainable. There are other dynamics of this that I too have a hard time comprehending but am continually learning to accept, like for instance: some women don't want a man who works all the time. They don't like the stress associated with it, or things of the sort. Lots of people are more content leading comfortable, stable, predictable lives than they are the ones you solely describe.

Also, all that being said, from what I can see in your thumbnail, you're a handsome guy. Unless there's some other physical issue about you that might turn women off a bit, it doesn't seem like your looks are should be such a huge hurdle for you. Another thing, aren't you relatively successful? No, you might not be a male model and you might not be an executive, but you're certainly not a destitute leper, either. You exceed the basic criteria required to play the game, you just want to play it by your own rules and not the ones that matter, then complain about minute aspects of the game that aren't nearly as big of a deal as you suggest. So for the thousandth time, stop acting like you can't find success because you're not a movie star. It's insulting to everyone's intelligence at this point.

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Anything I have that might be good has zero value there and I am not looking to bed them in the next 3 hours, I am actually looking to take them to dinner and get to know them. So yes I look at that and the reality is the allure of looks, money, status, fun, flirting and physical interaction trumps anything I have to offer.

Look harder. Most of the time, well adjusted women aren't looking to sleep with a man after 3 hours if they're considering his long term potential. They usually want a man to do something like take them out to dinner and get to know them.

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

No honest advice is really forthcoming besides "oh it happens to me to", hardly meaningful advice to someone who has never had any success and they know it. At the end of the day I am just inferior to them and get treated accordingly,

Why do you accept this?

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

At some point logic has to kick in here and this is really that point. For years I tried to work with what I have but its clearly not enough,

The "logic" kicking in shouldn't be "it'll never work out for me," rather "I might actually have a better chance if I do things differently."

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

For years I tried to work with what I have but its clearly not enough

Everyone else works with what they have, and while it might not be enough for a supermodel, they learn how to make it enough to have a fulfilling relationship with someone they care for, with whom they're compatible. Everyone's relationship experiences are filled with trial and error. Did I make some regrettable, cringeworthy mistakes when I was young? Absolutely. Did I learn from them and make sure I never did them again? Absolutely. I'm married now and I'm still constantly learning and understanding new things, questioning old beliefs, methods, etc. The difference is you still haven't evolved beyond a 14 year old's mentality of "Oh, she only likes the football player, so I have no hope." It seems one of the reasons you can't find success is that your methodology won't evolve because you're handcuffed by your stone aged assessment of the landscape: "I see women with men who have X, Y, and Z, I don't have X, Y, and Z at those levels, so it's utterly hopeless." Again, look harder. Do you have learning disabilities? Are you incapable of seeing nuances? Shades of gray? Exceptions? Realities? Guess what, even if you don't have all the X, Y, and Z, if you look hard enough you're going to realize that plenty of women don't need a man to have all those things in spades. They might appreciate someone with A, B, and C more -- some of which you have.

Enough of this already, one day you're going to wake up at 40 and realize you spent your life concocting red herrings to strangers on the internet so you wouldn't have to do something new and uncomfortable that 99% of other people do at some point. Nobody wants that fate for you. People here want to see you succeed and be happy, but there's only so much we can do. The first thing you can do is admit that things aren't as stacked against you as you make them out to be.

Edited March 16, 2021 by normal person

March 16, 2021

18 minutes ago, normal person said:

I won't lie and say money, looks, status, etc aren't very important to lots of people, but for you to suggest it's all that matters to everyone is quite a reach. Will having these things improve your odds of success? I really think so, some might disagree. I think most people would prefer good looking, successful people, but not everyone can end up with someone like that. Is every man in a relationship that you know of good looking and wealthy? I sincerely doubt it. Not every man can end up with a super model and not every woman can end up with a CEO. Realistic expectations and things of the sort eventually bring people down to Earth about what kind of partner is appropriate and attainable. There are other dynamics of this that I too have a hard time comprehending but am continually learning to accept, like for instance: some women don't want a man who works all the time. They don't like the stress associated with it, or things of the sort. Lots of people are more content leading comfortable, stable, predictable lives than they are the ones you solely describe.

Also, all that being said, from what I can see in your thumbnail, you're a handsome guy. Unless there's some other physical issue about you that might turn women off a bit, it doesn't seem like your looks are should be such a huge hurdle for you. Another thing, aren't you relatively successful? No, you might not be a male model and you might not be an executive, but you're certainly not a destitute leper, either. You exceed the basic criteria required to play the game, you just want to play it by your own rules and not the ones that matter, then complain about minute aspects of the game that aren't nearly as big of a deal as you suggest. So for the thousandth time, stop acting like you can't find success because you're not a movie star. It's insulting to everyone's intelligence at this point.

Look harder. Most of the time, well adjusted women aren't looking to sleep with a man after 3 hours if they're considering his long term potential. They usually want a man to do something like take them out to dinner and get to know them.

Why do you accept this?

The "logic" kicking in shouldn't be "it'll never work out for me," rather "I might actually have a better chance if I do things differently."

Everyone else works with what they have, and while it might not be enough for a supermodel, they learn how to make it enough to have a fulfilling relationship with someone they care for, with whom they're compatible. Everyone's relationship experiences are filled with trial and error. Did I make some regrettable, cringeworthy mistakes when I was young? Absolutely. Did I learn from them and make sure I never did them again? Absolutely. I'm married now and I'm still constantly learning and understanding new things, questioning old beliefs, methods, etc. The difference is you still haven't evolved beyond a 14 year old's mentality of "Oh, she only likes the football player, so I have no hope." It seems one of the reasons you can't find success is that your methodology won't evolve because you're handcuffed by your stone aged assessment of the landscape: "I see women with men who have X, Y, and Z, I don't have X, Y, and Z at those levels, so it's utterly hopeless." Again, look harder. Do you have learning disabilities? Are you incapable of seeing nuances? Shades of gray? Exceptions? Realities? Guess what, even if you don't have all the X, Y, and Z, if you look hard enough you're going to realize that plenty of women don't need a man to have all those things in spades. They might appreciate someone with A, B, and C more -- some of which you have.

Enough of this already, one day you're going to wake up at 40 and realize you spent your life concocting red herrings to strangers on the internet so you wouldn't have to do something new and uncomfortable that 99% of other people do at some point. Nobody wants that fate for you. People here want to see you succeed and be happy, but there's only so much we can do. The first thing you can do is admit that things aren't as stacked against you as you make them out to be.

Don't worry I am coming to terms with that reality, have three years to get used to the idea.

Ultimately its likes versus what can have and mine never match up so instead of doing that its actually better to do nothing at all and just accept what is. Here I did things a lot differently and lost out the same way I always do so what is the point, the common interests and common experiences were better than ever before and for once the person sitting in front of me could relate to my life and the way I live it. Again not enough, its never enough so instead of going through this over and over why not just give up. I hate giving up but I also do not see any genuine possibility of getting what I actually want.

Instead all I see is me having to bend over backwards for someone I don't really find attractive or begging and groveling and getting kicked in the teeth anyway. I have never met anyone who I found attractive who has assigned me any dating value, most people have by the time they are 37, the stats do not lie here. Oh and being and outlier is never attractive. If attainable for me is someone I do not find attractive then I am quite ok having nobody at all, really I am. Look how well getting to know someone has worked for me, it simply has not, its never ever worked. I have spent 20 years trying to get ANY sort of success out of this and its never arrived, its always some good sunsets but never whole days or weeks metaphorically speaking.

Do you not think I have tried to compete with these guys, yes I have and it never ever works, not even slightly, its a mauling of note. SO why bother, really why, what is the point to it, why make myself unhappy. Yes spending time with someone I really like was really great but again its not what I am capable of quite clearly, again 20 years of no success proves that.

Actually I did have a learning disability as a kid and everyone wrote me off, wrote me off to a mediocre life and I prove them wrong, even my own family. People must not come and talk to me about having things easy because nothing I have done has been easy. I got teased my entire way through school because I did not conform to what everyone else was doing or the things they found fun.

Sure they don't need men to have those things but they still WANT men to have those things, that is the major difference.

March 16, 2021

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I fully intend to quit now. Negativity based on experience not thoughts. You have endless rejection and tell me you wont be negative, can you honestly say that. I started off very positive about my prospects here because for once someone seemed to appreciate what I am actually good at.

Again I just have nothing people want, hardly their fault really.

'

No of course l get it's been another kick in the guts , and not to rub salt into it but people did try to warn that with this just friend thing that you were saying you were happy with anyway , she would start going out with other guys. This si why people were saying well just give it a go , bc the friendship thing is gonna bite just as hard in the end anyway so you might as well have earlier.

At any rate , l'm thinking Elaines got it about right at this stage , she doesn't need that pedestal . And didn't she tell you just a few wks back she couldn't even get into a relationship right now anyway yet , she's at it again already.

March 16, 2021

28 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Here I did things a lot differently

While this may be technically true, it sounds like still didn't do them in a way that would be conducive to success.

28 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

common interests and common experiences were better than ever before and for once the person sitting in front of me could relate to my life and the way I live it. Again not enough

Why would it be enough? Everyone in a football stadium probably likes football. Does that mean everyone in the stadium is romantically compatible? Plenty of football fans end up with non-fans too. At the end of the day, two people liking the same thing is more or less coincidental, not a necessity to romance.

28 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Actually I did have a learning disability as a kid

I asked you this in sort of a tongue in cheek fashion to try and figure out why your views of things were so static, but it does explain a lot. It also would've been helpful for you to mention this 30 threads ago, it would've saved a lot of time and frustration. If this is the biggest obstacle that's shaping your views of the dating landscape, then maybe you need an actual teacher or professional who can explain it to you in ways that might be more helpful than we can.

28 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

People must not come and talk to me about having things easy because nothing I have done has been easy.

For most people it isn't a cake walk. But for most people, many of whom are in less advantageous circumstances than you, it's not as hard as you seem to think it is either.

Edited March 16, 2021 by normal person

March 16, 2021

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Here I did things a lot differently and lost out the same way I always do so what is the point....

You didn’t really do anything differently. Like I said, this was pretty much your “strategy” with K. What you have to do is take a risk (I.e. let these women know you’re interested in dating them). It doesn’t guarantee success of course (hence the term “risk”). In this case it probably wouldn’t have worked anyways because looks like she’s interested in older men that are quite wealthy. Nothing you can do about that. Just like an obese woman wanting that slim, fit ZA dater to be attracted to her. It’s not going to happen no matter how nice she is.

But you have a mental block. I learned this lesson in high school. The cheerleaders like the football players. I’m not a football player. I won’t be dating cheerleaders. It took me a couple more years to realize it’s really likely a cheerleader wouldn’t be a good match for me either. And then I started having dating success.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Weezy1973

March 16, 2021

2 hours ago, normal person said:

While this may be technically true, it sounds like still didn't do them in a way that would be conducive to success.

Why would it be enough? Everyone in a football stadium probably likes football. Does that mean everyone in the stadium is romantically compatible? Plenty of football fans end up with non-fans too. At the end of the day, two people liking the same thing is more or less coincidental, not a necessity to romance.

I asked you this in sort of a tongue in cheek fashion to try and figure out why your views of things were so static, but it does explain a lot. It also would've been helpful for you to mention this 30 threads ago, it would've saved a lot of time and frustration. If this is the biggest obstacle that's shaping your views of the dating landscape, then maybe you need an actual teacher or professional who can explain it to you in ways that might be more helpful than we can.

For most people it isn't a cake walk. But for most people, many of whom are in less advantageous circumstances than you, it's not as hard as you seem to think it is either.

Exactly my point I can't play the game but I can look on as it's played. Just about the best I can do really. I'd say this instance based on time spent I sort of had an idea what mutual attraction might be like which in reality has made me realise how especially bad every other experience has been.

I am glad some people find it easier I just need to find some sort of peace and acceptance, nothing else.

March 16, 2021

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

You didn’t really do anything differently. Like I said, this was pretty much your “strategy” with K. What you have to do is take a risk (I.e. let these women know you’re interested in dating them). It doesn’t guarantee success of course (hence the term “risk”). In this case it probably wouldn’t have worked anyways because looks like she’s interested in older men that are quite wealthy. Nothing you can do about that. Just like an obese woman wanting that slim, fit ZA dater to be attracted to her. It’s not going to happen no matter how nice she is.

But you have a mental block. I learned this lesson in high school. The cheerleaders like the football players. I’m not a football player. I won’t be dating cheerleaders. It took me a couple more years to realize it’s really likely a cheerleader wouldn’t be a good match for me either. And then I started having dating success.

Well if all I can get are people who I don't find attractive I'd just rather have nothing. Nothing is better than something I don't want. I can just look on as other people find mutual attraction.

I have looked on for many years and observed. I'll just find a way to accept what is and maybe I'll feel.ok about simply giving up.

March 16, 2021

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

I have looked on for many years and observed. I'll just find a way to accept what is and maybe I'll feel.ok about simply giving up.

I do know a few people that have given up for all intents and purposes. All of them are middle aged overweight women . And their point is similar to yours - the men they’re attracted to aren’t attracted to them. But, they’re not happy from what I can see. They’re angry and bitter.

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