Stret Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 I am wondering about starting to date a guy who has a lot of female friends, some of which are in his life on almost daily basis - he cat sits for one of them, goes with her to the vet, deals with almost every trivial issues in her life as she always seems to ask for favours, travels around the continent when he doesn't feel like it so he can be there for her, etc. They know each other 10 years and I don't really know the history. He says there was nothing ever. I don't believe that he would tell me even if there were anything. I think he would hide any such history as most people would. But there are many other women that use him a shoulder to cry on and confide in him and he runs errands for them all the time. I understand that people have friends of the opposite sex and I do too, but his friendships are too close for my taste. I go have a coffee with my male friends to catch up and we meet for a game of tennis. Rarely life requires that someone does someone a huge favour, and perhaps deaths in the family etc are times when people need support. I deal with my daily and trivial issues by myself. I don't waste other people's time on everything that I need. He is so involved in the lives of his friends, it is like having an obligation towards his girlfriends rather than friends. He likes it, I think. His phone beeps all the time and someone is asking him for a favour or confiding in him. Most of his friends are pretty women, so not really representative of the general society. My guess is that he was friend-zoned at least by some of them, just because that is how these things usually go. He claims he is not attracted to any of them. I wouldn't know but everything in me tells me he is most likely hiding at least some stuff. Yet he also told me a while ago before we really knew each other well that he has had sex with some of his friends. I don't know who they are. He's also a fashion photographer and told me he dated one of the girls from work. OK. When I honestly told him I don't want any relationship with him because his friendships would bother me, he went full-on defence mode. He didn't understand me at all. He said it was ridiculous to suggest something like that, that I was projecting onto him my bad experience from my previous relationship, and that he is like that just because he is single. But these friendships are not new and he had them during his relationships too. He calls pretty women "honey" and "sweety" and gets kind of very comfortable and touchy very soon (at least that is how he was with me and doesn't deny that he is a bit flirty). I bet everything I have that he doesn't refer to any of the unattractive women as "honey". I guess the relationship is doomed to fail if I ever started it. I could never be happy knowing that he is like that with other women and I wouldn't expect him to change. He would say he did but really wouldn't. Last night he told me he loved me. We had nothing physical going on but have spent a lot of time together in the past several weeks. This caught me off guard and even pushed me off. I am different. I am more private person and keep my relationships safe, I reserve words for one person only, I don't say I love you until after I know the person well, and put that person above all others in my life. My friends are important but they are friends and their lives are not my daily worry. He says he is the same but he really is not, and I think there wouldn't be the kind of room in his life for me that I would want. I don't know if he doesn't see it or is just full of it. I am not saying the mistake is in him but it is also not in me. I think we are just not compatible. I already now see everything that is to come. He will try to please me by changing his friendships or stopping some communication and he really shouldn't. He will maybe become resentful that way and from then on it is going nowhere. If those friendships are so important to him to have in the way he does, he should keep them IMO. And maybe find someone who is ok with all that. My life taught me different things, my instincts tell me to stay away and I cannot reason this out with anything. I'm a but sceptical about the whole male - female relationships of the kind and in the context I described. If it were one or two, but there are several that I know of. All exes are still in touch with him too. Any thoughts on his friendships, experiences with relationships like this, comments...? Thanks.
d0nnivain Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 You know yourself. You know this bothers you & you are savvy enough to also know that it's unfair of you to try to control him by expecting him to draw boundaries where you draw them. He's in the wrong for trying to make you accept his boundaries He needed to accept your conclusion of incompatibility gracefully & move on. That more than his friendships would have bothered me. 3
Miss Spider Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 I agree with you. Fine if someone does, but would I date someone like that? Not even once. 2
d0nnivain Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 See I'd date him & it wouldn't even show up on my radar of things to be bothered about. Yes, I would want a close look at their interactions but from what you describe I see a pool of potential friends for me, not threats to the relationship. But that's me. 2 1
FMW Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 25 minutes ago, Stret said: I could never be happy knowing that he is like that with other women and I wouldn't expect him to change. That's all that matters. Neither of you are wrong about your own feelings on the subject, but as you noted, you are incompatible. It's hard to walk away I'm sure, but don't spend any more time and get any more invested or attached. It will only get harder. 2
Author Stret Posted December 14, 2020 Author Posted December 14, 2020 26 minutes ago, FMW said: That's all that matters. Neither of you are wrong about your own feelings on the subject, but as you noted, you are incompatible. It's hard to walk away I'm sure, but don't spend any more time and get any more invested or attached. It will only get harder. I read a lot about the topic of male - female friendships and it seems that massive majority is based on at least some level of attraction by at least one of them. He doesn't even want to admit this and that is too part of the problem. He is so adamant that he is not attracted to any of his pretty female friends that it sounds ... a bit outside of everyone's experience and all the scientific work on the subject. So I don't buy it. He is a good guy but even good guys lie and hide. 1 2
d0nnivain Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 Just now, Stret said: He doesn't even want to admit this and that is too part of the problem. He is so adamant that he is not attracted to any of his pretty female friends that it sounds ... a bit outside of everyone's experience and all the scientific work on the subject. So I don't buy it. He is a good guy but even good guys lie and hide. He could be telling the truth, that they are only his platonic friends. That said, you don't believe him. You can't date a man you don't trust who makes lifestyle choices with which you vehemently disagree. Go back to your initial assessment -- you two are incompatible -- & move on. Continuing to engage is you wanting to be "right" & to get him to change so he can date you. You are making it a litmus test -- you think that he needs to prove how much he cares about you by dropping all of his long term friendships. You know that is unfair & you have said that you won't do that. So stop. Disconnect & move along. 1
Miss Spider Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Stret said: He doesn't even want to admit this and that is too part of the problem. He is so adamant that he is not attracted to any of his pretty female friends that it sounds ... a bit outside of everyone's experience and all the scientific work on the subject. So I don't buy it. He is a good guy but even good guys lie and hide. I couldn’t stand dating a guy like this, personally. That mindset is just so divorced from evidence and so different from mine, I wouldn’t be able to reconcile it. For similar reasons, I could never date super religious folk. Edited December 14, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes 1
Author Stret Posted December 14, 2020 Author Posted December 14, 2020 1 minute ago, d0nnivain said: He could be telling the truth, that they are only his platonic friends. That said, you don't believe him. You can't date a man you don't trust who makes lifestyle choices with which you vehemently disagree. Go back to your initial assessment -- you two are incompatible -- & move on. Continuing to engage is you wanting to be "right" & to get him to change so he can date you. You are making it a litmus test -- you think that he needs to prove how much he cares about you by dropping all of his long term friendships. You know that is unfair & you have said that you won't do that. So stop. Disconnect & move along. Oh you're wrong about me wanting to have him change. That would possibly be the worst of all outcomes and would lead to unhappiness. What I was hoping is to have an honest conversation with him where nothing is hidden and packed up as something else. I wanted him to tell me the truth about his friendships, his attitudes, etc. I really value complete openness. I've just dropped him a message saying that this is unhealthy for both of us. I want to stop all communication and only say hi to him when I see him. We obviously cannot be friends and we cannot have a relationship.
FMW Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 It's very possible he's being truthful. I'm female and I've always had both male and female friends. Opposite sex friendships give you different perspectives and approaches and I value that from my male friends. But as has been fully detailed by everyone, including you, it doesn't work for YOU. You can end things without making him "wrong" in general. It's wrong for you, that's all that matters. 1
Miss Spider Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 (edited) There’s a reason why even women that are OK with their SOs having lots of female friends draw the line at “intense“.A very intense relationship with another woman would cause many women a little bit of pause. It’s a very fine line between a very close, intense friendship and an emotional affair/infidelity. Edited December 14, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes 1
Trail Blazer Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 Unless he's gay (in which case you wouldn't be dating him), I find it incredibly hard to fathom that he hasn't found any of his female friend's attractive ever. In which case, I don't think you will ever be able to fell fully comfortable with this kind of arrangement. It's one thing to have a lot of female friends on SM, but to cat sit for a female friend? I don't know... that's all sounding a bit too much if it were me. 1
Author Stret Posted December 14, 2020 Author Posted December 14, 2020 12 minutes ago, FMW said: It's very possible he's being truthful. I'm female and I've always had both male and female friends. Opposite sex friendships give you different perspectives and approaches and I value that from my male friends. But as has been fully detailed by everyone, including you, it doesn't work for YOU. You can end things without making him "wrong" in general. It's wrong for you, that's all that matters. I agree with you on the male-female friendships. As I said, I have them too and they are valuable. But the level of things is different. A guy being a constant repairman, driver, shoulder to cry on, etc for multiple women is not really attractive to me. Even if it is just friendship, and I'm sure that of all the pretty women, some were his love interest or even had something with him. My desire to be told the truth is linked to my desire to find at least one decent and honest person, who can be brave enough to do the right thing regardless of the consequences to himself - just to know they exist and that maybe some day there will be someone for me.
Author Stret Posted December 14, 2020 Author Posted December 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said: Unless he's gay (in which case you wouldn't be dating him), I find it incredibly hard to fathom that he hasn't found any of his female friend's attractive ever. In which case, I don't think you will ever be able to fell fully comfortable with this kind of arrangement. It's one thing to have a lot of female friends on SM, but to cat sit for a female friend? I don't know... that's all sounding a bit too much if it were me. I agree that he wasn't completely honest. And that is a deal breaker too. Cat sitting is ok for me. But he is on her 24/7 call. He went to another country because she needed a shoulder to cry on while on vacation. They used to live together when he was renting a room to her 10 years ago. And if he didn't have anything for her or with her, there are 10 other women that use him as a close male friend. All pretty. Too much.
Miss Spider Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Stret said: I agree with you on the male-female friendships. As I said, I have them too and they are valuable. But the level of things is different. A guy being a constant repairman, driver, shoulder to cry on, etc for multiple women is not really attractive to me. Even if it is just friendship, and I'm sure that of all the pretty women, some were his love interest or even had something with him. My desire to be told the truth is linked to my desire to find at least one decent and honest person, who can be brave enough to do the right thing regardless of the consequences to himself - just to know they exist and that maybe some day there will be someone for me. You’re a woman I assume. As is donn, as is FMV. M/F relationships are very beneficial and valuable to the woman and often times she’s not attracted to him, which makes being friends work so well for her. Yeah, he’s blatantly lying about not finding his attractive friends attractive. But he probably doesn’t want to admit that to a woman he’s trying to get at Edited December 14, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes
Acacia98 Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Stret said: When I honestly told him I don't want any relationship with him because his friendships would bother me, he went full-on defence mode. He didn't understand me at all. He said it was ridiculous to suggest something like that, that I was projecting onto him my bad experience from my previous relationship, and that he is like that just because he is single. But these friendships are not new and he had them during his relationships too. The conversation about relationships should have ended when you said your piece. He has every right to live his life how he wants to (in this particular respect, anyway). And you have every right to take a look at his life and decide it's too complicated for you. You set boundaries differently. You're incompatible. There's nothing to negotiate there. (FWIW, I wouldn't date someone like him either. We'd be too different.) 1
Author Stret Posted December 14, 2020 Author Posted December 14, 2020 I just dropped him a text to tell him that this is unhealthy for both of us. He saw it but ignored it for a while. I then dropped him another message: Take good care of yourself for me, will you? He: What are you talking about, am fine. Me: OK, glad to hear that. He: LOL, it's not crime to care for someone. Me: OK. He: Hope you're having a good day. Me: I will go now. I really will miss you a lot. He: LOL. Thats your choice. LOL? Ok. (and I blocked him while he was typing a message) I understand that he might be defensive but this is childish. He is playing it down and went from I love you this morning, to this exchange. I really wish him all the best. That's it, I guess. Too bad. He was the first guy in four years that I clicked with. I will keep searching and maybe there is someone for me somewhere... 1
Miss Spider Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 (edited) He sounds really annoying. Much in the way that guys that have a bunch of really close friendships with /orbit a bunch of women often are to me. All that “ LOL” stuff was really immature and unnecessary. But it seems like your texts were fishing for a response from him and you got it. Sorry it didn’t work out. Edited December 14, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes 1
Ellener Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Stret said: I am not saying the mistake is in him but it is also not in me. I think we are just not compatible. That's the end of it then. He is who he is! 1
elaine567 Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said: Yeah, he’s blatantly lying about not finding his attractive friends attractive. He is a fashion photographer, so pretty women may be ten a penny to him. He perhaps needs someone a bit "different" to get his motor running. I wouldn't date him either but if he is happy and willing to be my Man Friday then who would I be to stop his fun? 1
d0nnivain Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 37 minutes ago, Stret said: I wanted him to tell me the truth about his friendships, his attitudes, etc. I really value complete openness. By saying this you keep asserting that is NOT telling you the truth now.
Miss Spider Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, elaine567 said: He is a fashion photographer, so pretty women may be ten a penny to him. He perhaps needs someone a bit "different" to get his motor running. I wouldn't date him either but if he is happy and willing to be my Man Friday then who would I be to stop his fun? Maybe. But I haven’t seen it happen too often were just because a man is around a lot of attractive women he stops being interested in attractive women. It could be though. Edited December 14, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes
Author Stret Posted December 14, 2020 Author Posted December 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, d0nnivain said: By saying this you keep asserting that is NOT telling you the truth now. I learned to trust my instincts rather than listen to other person. Every time hen I didn't listen to those instincts and trusted a guy instead, I regretted - it always turned out I was right.
elaine567 Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 LOL. A colleague of mine lost her job and she got a txt from her MIL. "I heard about you losing your job. LOL" She spoke to her husband as it seemed a bit inappropriate for the MIL to find it funny that she was now unemployed, she thought the MIL liked her.. Turns out the MIL thought LOL meant "Lots of love". 2
Author Stret Posted December 14, 2020 Author Posted December 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, elaine567 said: LOL. A colleague of mine lost her job and she got a txt from her MIL. "I heard about you losing your job. LOL" She spoke to her husband as it seemed a bit inappropriate for the MIL to find it funny that she was now unemployed, she thought the MIL liked her.. Turns out the MIL thought LOL meant "Lots of love". oh dear...
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