Will he be back? Cancelled date over an argument after talking for 3 weeks

[Miss Spider]

1 hour ago, babybrowns said:

 

 “women who annoy me by questioning my intentions before I’ve met them IRL get their number deleted”.

Ohhh my gosh. What an arrogant scrote. Look, I know it gets thrown around here a lot with like little to no evidence, and this isn’t  an exception, but Narcissistic rage, anyone? And Elaine makes a good point.I definitely wouldn’t let him walk behind me on any walk. 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Versacehottie]

1 hour ago, babybrowns said:

This is that, the very last thing I said to the guy before we parted ways was: “Please don’t contact me anymore if you want nothing more to do with me. Thank you”, which will hopefully keep any breadcrumbing at bay.

 

I think the suggestion to seek therapy and/or work on yourself are on point.  Bolded above---while you think that is a strong statement (and admittedly perhaps it's the best you could muster up), look at the focus...it's still from his point of view, still handing the control over to him.  It's passive rather than active and assertive---not to mention, the next day you reached out to him to reconnect, effectively chasing after him, and are longing for contact from him right now. You are setting a pattern with this guy or I would assume others for mistreatment and being treated like a doormat.

While there is absolutely NO excuse for abuse, I do think some people are going to find themselves in that situation because of what is going on in their own head.  In your case, you almost seem to have no internal power or responsibility, but outsource that to others for validation and your dependency on them.  That will leave you very vulnerable to be abused and mistreated.  Even with this guy, you say you had already decided you didn't want a relationship with him, yet you are pining over him like you've been in a long and important relationship, after an extremely negative even that 99% of us would not allow into our lives.  Not to mention--those goals are at odds with each other, especially based on your subsequent reactions when the potential contact/semi-relationship was slipping through your fingers.  

You can admit something's wrong with you as you have but unless you don't act and follow through like you are not powerless to change that or do something to change yourself, i'm afraid this will be a repeating pattern for you.   Like I said, you owe yourself better. 

[Veronica73]

I only read your first post, but why in the world would you want to continue this? The guy is a dick. If he acts like this this early, when people are on their best behavior, just imagine what he will be like when you have a disagreement later. Run away and be glad you saw this side of him this early.

[healing light]

11 hours ago, babybrowns said:

 I didn’t say one bad word to him during this argument too, but rather kept asking him to stop being so nasty towards me, to which he replied “Ok then snowflake, best that we’re not meeting up then, bye!”

The next day, I reached out to him to apologise for starting the argument. A little ironic I know because he was the one that was abusive not me, but I didn’t want to lose him so reached out. 

This is why abusers get away with their behavior. You came back. 

This argument was a GIFT. It is showing you VERY early on what you can anticipate for the future: an immature, abusive gaslighter that will tear your self-esteem to shreds until you are a shell of yourself if you allow it. Get away from him immediately.

[Veronica73]

Okay, so I read the rest of this thread. Please have nothing to do with this guy. And find a good therapist. And I’m not meaning this as an insult to you at all. I see a therapist...and actually have, and somewhat continue to have similar issues as you do. In the past I have bent over  backwards a ridiculous amount, and have accepted a ridiculous amount of bad behavior from men I have dated. This has slowly improved. But a good therapist can help a ton. You deserve soooo much better than this. Anyone does. And again, stay far, far away from this guy. There are soooo many blaring red flags. This is not a person you want in your life.

[Veronica73]

Also, did you do a police/ court case check? I don’t know what it’s called where you are....but it wouldn’t surprise me if this guy has had a restraining order or two out on him. He sounds like the type.

[Wiseman2]

Best not to chase phantoms and ghosts

[ExpatInItaly]

8 hours ago, babybrowns said:

This is that, the very last thing I said to the guy before we parted ways was: “Please don’t contact me anymore if you want nothing more to do with me. Thank you”, which will hopefully keep any breadcrumbing at bay.

There's a lot wrong here. 

"If you want nothing more to do with me" should not have even factored into that sentence. That's you telling him that you don't have the self-respect to tell him  piss off of your own volition - not based on what he wants. 

And the real way to keep breadcrumbing at bay is to block people like this. Not doing so means you are still very much hoping for breadcrumbs, and people like him can smell that a mile away. 

I would strongly encourage you to take a break from dating and work on your self-esteem. You're unfortunately painting yourself a very easy target for unstable and manipulative men

[babybrowns]

Thank you everyone. Yes I admit that I did want to put that ‘the ball’s in your court’ part into my final goodbye, since especially at the time I wrote it, I was not ready to let him go. You all are really helping me to have more and more resilience to not respond if he does reach out again. I’m not at the stage where I’m ready to block his number just yet.

I feel a bit sorry for the guy; he doesn’t go on many dates, he has a tough job which means he can’t even be home for Christmas. Also he still hasn’t re-installed the dating app that we met on (I use it regularly so can see this). The way he was so negative about and badmouthing other people on our video chats, (much to my boredom- 90% of the video chats were dominated by his conversation) suggested to me he’s a very unhappy person. Hope he gets some festive cheer at this time of the year.

Edited December 15, 2020 by babybrowns

[balletomane]

15 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

Thank you everyone. Yes I admit that I did want to put that ‘the ball’s in your court’ part into my final goodbye, since especially at the time I wrote it, I was not ready to let him go. You all are really helping me to have more and more resilience to not respond if he does reach out again. I’m not at the stage where I’m ready to block his number just yet.

Rephrased, this means, "I still want to hear from him and I mustn't block him in case he calls."

You're even lining up your excuses for meeting him if he does call again - you feel sorry for him, he doesn't get many dates, you want him to have some festive cheer, etc. People with this inappropriate 'rescuer mentality' often fall victim to awful behaviour, because they tolerate it on the basis that the other person "has a tough job"/"is unhappy"/insert excuse here, and they assume that if only they are big-hearted and kind enough, they can cure all that.

You can't fix this man's behaviour. He isn't going to turn into Prince Charming if only you apologise just right, find the magic formula of words to please him. The only thing you can do is protect yourself, and that means blocking him, not leaving a line of communication open and hoping he deigns to give you another chance to appease his temper.

[Veronica73]

Please try to put him out of your mind. And definitely don’t feel sorry for him. He’s a dick. He is perfectly able to not be a dick. But so far he has chosen not to be. He doesn’t deserve the real estate in your head. At all.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Veronica73

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, babybrowns said:

I feel a bit sorry for the guy; he doesn’t go on many dates,

Gee, why could that be?

You really need to give your head a good shake here, BB. And then do it again. 

Guys like this will target you because you're easy to manipulate, sadly. 

[spiderowl]

I’m sorry about what happened, OP, and I can see it was a shock to lose what you felt was a promising connection. That is a disappointment and naturally you are sad and torn about this.

Having said the above, how do you think people end up in abusive relationships?

The abuser starts out nice and builds a connection. They then test you out by verbal bullying and abuse to see if you will continue. How do abusers test to see if someone is likely to be compliant? They try to change plans or get you to do something you don’t feel comfortable with.  When you stand up for yourself and refuse, they have a scary meltdown and accuse you of not trusting them in some way. If you still maintain a connection because you think it’s a one-off, that maybe you said the wrong thing or you feel sorry for all the bad that has supposedly happened to them, they know you are easily manipulated.

An abuser will blame you for any misunderstanding, upset, or bad behaviour on their part. He didn’t want to fight with you he said, implying you must be the one who wants to fight. His use of sarcasm and abuse shows he does not care a jot about your feelings, no matter what he claims. Yes, he might have had a sad background - lots of people have - but you are not responsible for that and owe him nothing. It does not excuse him treating anyone in the way he treated you.

This guy poses a very real danger to you. He almost certainly has some sort of bad record with women and may have been prosecuted by police before.

Abusers are nice, charming, sweet, even vulnerable part of the time, just enough to get you emotionally involved, then you see their real colours! Angry, sarcastic, controlling, violent people don’t just change and lose that internal anger and lack of control. It is deep seated and seething inside, it will inevitably come out on a regular basis if you get further involved with him. 

Basically, you could end up violently abused, stalked if you try to get away, or even dead. Your attachment will go if you truly see him as unsuitable, and it is sure as hell not worth the danger you are facing.

Edited December 15, 2020 by spiderowl

[Watercolors]

1 hour ago, spiderowl said:

I’m sorry about what happened, OP, and I can see it was a shock to lose what you felt was a promising connection. That is a disappointment and naturally you are sad and torn about this.

Having said the above, how do you think people end up in abusive relationships?

The abuser starts out nice and builds a connection. They then test you out by verbal bullying and abuse to see if you will continue. How do abusers test to see if someone is likely to be compliant? They try to change plans or get you to do something you don’t feel comfortable with.  When you stand up for yourself and refuse, they have a scary meltdown and accuse you of not trusting them in some way. If you still maintain a connection because you think it’s a one-off, that maybe you said the wrong thing or you feel sorry for all the bad that has supposedly happened to them, they know you are easily manipulated.

An abuser will blame you for any misunderstanding, upset, or bad behaviour on their part. He didn’t want to fight with you he said, implying you must be the one who wants to fight. His use of sarcasm and abuse shows he does not care a jot about your feelings, no matter what he claims. Yes, he might have had a sad background - lots of people have - but you are not responsible for that and owe him nothing. It does not excuse him treating anyone in the way he treated you.

This guy poses a very real danger to you. He almost certainly has some sort of bad record with women and may have been prosecuted by police before.

Abusers are nice, charming, sweet, even vulnerable part of the time, just enough to get you emotionally involved, then you see their real colours! Angry, sarcastic, controlling, violent people don’t just change and lose that internal anger and lack of control. It is deep seated and seething inside, it will inevitably come out on a regular basis if you get further involved with him. 

Basically, you could end up violently abused, stalked if you try to get away, or even dead. Your attachment will go if you truly see him as unsuitable, and it is sure as hell not worth the danger you are facing.

+1 post. Too bad it will fall on deaf ears. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Watercolors

[Saracena]

5 hours ago, babybrowns said:

I feel a bit sorry for the guy; he doesn’t go on many dates, he has a tough job which means he can’t even be home for Christmas.  

Agree with the others but apart from anything else, how can you  *know* if all this is true and not just some ploy to reign you in? Which of course, he's succeeded in doing as I'm sure he's sussed you're a sympathetic person, quite unlike all the others who it appears wouldn't give him the time of day. With good reason!

The fact he hasn't managed to get many dates speaks volumes to me! 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Saracena

[poppyfields]

16 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

BB you’ll be delighted to hear that this man will be back! From the abuser perspective you are perfect.  You’re like a delicious, tempting fruit, ripe for the picking. 

This man is going to Love you, adore you, make you feel like the most special person in the world. Then he will trash you, destroy you and your life will become a utter and complete misery.

However Poppy’s observations (I missed that, well spotted Poppy) about your current mentality, just tells me clearly that I’m wasting my time. Despite mine and others poster’s warnings, you will Ignore all of this. Instead you will be delighted when he contacts you again , you’ll lap up any attention that he gives you, and you will do so willingly.  You will allow him to get away with treating you any way of his choosing, and you will accept all of it.

I know this stuff,  I’ve been there multiple times.   I survived, escaped and recovered. Some do not. That is the reality! 

Carry on with your delusions that you just want to “see” him ....  I bargained with myself too. It’s all BS. 

Good luck BB. 

Sadly, I agree this^ will be the likely scenario.  In fact, it would not surprise me if bb contacted him. 

Admittedly, she was hoping he was missing her and the not knowing was not an option for her.  I'm speculating but reading her posts, it would not surprise me.  I hope I'm wrong. 

This thread was/is so troubling I had to stop posting yesterday.  I was literally shaking and feeling a bit nauseous reading bb's posts about how she hopes he contacts her and misses her. 

Equally troubling was this ***'s utterly deplorable and misogynistic words and behavior, I cannot even stomach calling him a man. 

And the OP hopes he reaches out and misses her?   

It's been a mere 3 weeks of on-line chat, what the heck is going on in the OP's mind?  

Calm said she knew her abuser(s) were a**h***s, I give her credit for that!  But they had been "grooming" her for awhile, and by the time the abuse started, she was powerless to leave, so easily. 

I understand that.  But in OP's situation, it's 3 weeks of on-line chat!  And I don't sense she believes him to be an a-hole.  She appears to be in denial about that, clinging to how adored he made her feel during the 3 weeks prior. 

How does a person become this way?  Attracted or drawn into that mindset?  

After reading and watching several great films depicting abusive relationships, I thought I understood.  But this goes way beyond what I could have ever imagined.

Anyway, if you are still reading bb, all the best.  

Edited December 15, 2020 by poppyfields

[Saracena]

2 minutes ago, Saracena said:

Agree with the others but apart from anything else, how can you  *know* if all this is true and not just some ploy to reign you in? Which of course, he's succeeded in doing as I'm sure he's sussed you're a sympathetic person, quite unlike all the others who it appears wouldn't give him the time of day-with good reason!

The fact he hasn't managed to get many dates speaks volumes to me! 

 

[Watercolors]

BabyBrown, I found this website on abused women. I’d urge you to read through it to see what you identify with. 

https://ifstudies.org/blog/eight-reasons-women-stay-in-abusive-relationships

 

 

[peach302]

5 hours ago, babybrowns said:

Thank you everyone. Yes I admit that I did want to put that ‘the ball’s in your court’ part into my final goodbye, since especially at the time I wrote it, I was not ready to let him go. You all are really helping me to have more and more resilience to not respond if he does reach out again. I’m not at the stage where I’m ready to block his number just yet.

I feel a bit sorry for the guy; he doesn’t go on many dates, he has a tough job which means he can’t even be home for Christmas. Also he still hasn’t re-installed the dating app that we met on (I use it regularly so can see this). The way he was so negative about and badmouthing other people on our video chats, (much to my boredom- 90% of the video chats were dominated by his conversation) suggested to me he’s a very unhappy person. Hope he gets some festive cheer at this time of the year.

He sounds very bitter. He will only bring you baggage to the table. 

And dont feel sorry for him..you barely know the guy and he's not your responsibility.

[Versacehottie]

5 hours ago, babybrowns said:

Thank you everyone. Yes I admit that I did want to put that ‘the ball’s in your court’ part into my final goodbye, since especially at the time I wrote it, I was not ready to let him go. You all are really helping me to have more and more resilience to not respond if he does reach out again. I’m not at the stage where I’m ready to block his number just yet.

I feel a bit sorry for the guy; he doesn’t go on many dates, he has a tough job which means he can’t even be home for Christmas. Also he still hasn’t re-installed the dating app that we met on (I use it regularly so can see this). The way he was so negative about and badmouthing other people on our video chats, (much to my boredom- 90% of the video chats were dominated by his conversation) suggested to me he’s a very unhappy person. Hope he gets some festive cheer at this time of the year.

OmG, are you for real with this ^^^^^  Literally, you need some therapy asap.

[poppyfields]

9 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

OmG, are you for real with this ^^^^^  Literally, you need some therapy asap.

Yup agree.  WC just linked a great article.  Thanks WC.

Many women feel sorry for their abuser, he's so troubled and in pain, she has this overwhelming need to fix and make it all better.  The need is powerful and pulls her in.  

OP may feel it's her fault for facilitating the argument. 

I dunno, just trying to understand so I can stop feeling sick about it. 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by poppyfields

[Calmandfocused]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

Sadly, I agree this^ will be the likely scenario.  In fact, it would not surprise me if bb contacted him. 

Admittedly, she was hoping he was missing her and the not knowing was not an option for her.  I'm speculating but reading her posts, it would not surprise me.  I hope I'm wrong. 

This thread was/is so troubling I had to stop posting yesterday.  I was literally shaking and feeling a bit nauseous reading bb's posts about how she hopes he contacts her and misses her. 

Equally troubling was this ***'s utterly deplorable and misogynistic words and behavior, I cannot even stomach calling him a man. 

And the OP hopes he reaches out and misses her?   

It's been a mere 3 weeks of on-line chat, what the heck is going on in the OP's mind?  

Calm said she knew her abuser(s) were a**h***s, I give her credit for that!  But they had been "grooming" her for awhile, and by the time the abuse started, she was powerless to leave, so easily. 

I understand that.  But in OP's situation, it's 3 weeks of on-line chat!  And I don't sense she believes him to be an a-hole.  She appears to be in denial about that, clinging to how adored he made her feel during the 3 weeks prior. 

How does a person become this way?  Attracted or drawn into that mindset?  

After reading and watching several great films depicting abusive relationships, I thought I understood.  But this goes way beyond what I could have ever imagined.

Anyway, if you are still reading bb, all the best.  

The psychology of it is very complex. 
 

I’ve mentioned the addiction but theres so many layers to this. 
 

A lot of victims get fixated on the  Golden period. This person was so amazing, so wonderful etc, they convince themselves that the person is really Good. They want this again, in fact they’re desperate to taste and feel the goodness again. When it’s good the victim feels so validated,  alive and worshipped. They convince themselves that the perpetrator is “good”  and that the abuse is the perpetrator simply being misguided.
 

The victim will diffuse, rationalise and minimise the abuse, focusing only on the good and hence they stay in the relationship. As I said, it’s very complicated. Add into the mix attachment, love, adoration, hope, and dependency and the victim stays ... and stays. 
 

Also added into the mix is the victims desire to prove that she’s different, lovable, worthy and completely the opposite to all the horrible things the perpetrator says about her. 
 

What a lot of victims don’t realise is that the golden period is the most dangerous. It’s the hook in kick starting the abuse cycle. 
 

BB is a perfect victim judging by what’s she’s written. Everything that’s she’s said so far can fit into what I’ve just written above. 
 

I don’t believe for a second she will rebuff any further advances this guy gives her. She’s already brainwashed and she hasn’t even met him yet. 

[babybrowns]

7 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Equally troubling was this ***'s utterly deplorable and egregious words and behavior, I cannot even stomach calling him a man. 

And the OP hopes he reaches out and misses her?   

It's been a mere 3 weeks of on-line chat, what the heck is going on in the OP's mind?  

Calm said she knew her abuser(s) were a**h***s, I give her credit for that!  But they had been "grooming" her for awhile, and by the time the abuse started, she was powerless to leave, so easily. 

I understand that.  But in OP's situation, it's 3 weeks of on-line chat!  

How does a person become this way?  Attracted or drawn to that?  

 

I really am finding your posts very helpful poppyfields, they are really making me self-reflect, as are all posts on here. But I just want to point out, in order to sound less crazy at the least, that it wasn’t 3 weeks of online chat- it was a combination of video calling, voice messages and texts into that. I feel that we just clicked quite quickly, I really enjoyed talking to him and he enjoyed talking to me too. He was actually texting me more than I was texting him, bringing up our first date really frequently and talking about planning it and all. and he would always jump to reply to any text or voice note that I sent him. 3 weeks may be a short space of time but when companionship like this develops so intensely I think anyone would feel the withdrawal effects if it all stopped so suddenly and unexpectedly.
 

10 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I like your posts ExpatInItaly, they are always full of wisdom and insight but I would strongly disagree with this statement alone. I would say that I am perhaps much too forgiving, and get much too emotionally attached to people to the point that it overrides what the logical part of my head is saying, but at no point am I ‘easily manipulatable’. I know exactly what is going on- my attachment to people is something that is just so overpowering and it is getting better with time and experiences like this.

10 hours ago, spiderowl said:

I’m sorry about what happened, OP, and I can see it was a shock to lose what you felt was a promising connection. That is a disappointment and naturally you are sad and torn about this.

Having said the above, how do you think people end up in abusive relationships?

The abuser starts out nice and builds a connection. They then test you out by verbal bullying and abuse to see if you will continue. How do abusers test to see if someone is likely to be compliant? They try to change plans or get you to do something you don’t feel comfortable with.  When you stand up for yourself and refuse, they have a scary meltdown and accuse you of not trusting them in some way. If you still maintain a connection because you think it’s a one-off, that maybe you said the wrong thing or you feel sorry for all the bad that has supposedly happened to them, they know you are easily manipulated.

An abuser will blame you for any misunderstanding, upset, or bad behaviour on their part. He didn’t want to fight with you he said, implying you must be the one who wants to fight. His use of sarcasm and abuse shows he does not care a jot about your feelings, no matter what he claims. Yes, he might have had a sad background - lots of people have - but you are not responsible for that and owe him nothing. It does not excuse him treating anyone in the way he treated you.

This guy poses a very real danger to you. He almost certainly has some sort of bad record with women and may have been prosecuted by police before.

Abusers are nice, charming, sweet, even vulnerable part of the time, just enough to get you emotionally involved, then you see their real colours! Angry, sarcastic, controlling, violent people don’t just change and lose that internal anger and lack of control. It is deep seated and seething inside, it will inevitably come out on a regular basis if you get further involved with him. 

Basically, you could end up violently abused, stalked if you try to get away, or even dead. Your attachment will go if you truly see him as unsuitable, and it is sure as hell not worth the danger you are facing.

Amidst all the wonderful, insightful and educational posts on here, I really want to thank you for this post spiderowl since it really does unravel my situation fully. It helps to truly open my eyes to what this is, beyond what I knew it to be. It is really helping me. I’ve just not had that much experience with abusive men; just two (this one and one last summer which has been brought up in this thread), so it is still a bit of a learning curve for me. 
 

Thank you everyone so much for your posts so far; each one is helping me so much. Compared to where I was 2 days ago I am feeling a little stronger. I am still missing this guy a lot as I say after the 3-week daily conversations. Be it the ‘grooming/hook’ or whatever they were, in the end we are human beings who do respond well to companionship especially if that communication and companionship feels genuine.

The guy himself actually helped me see all the nice 3 weeks in a slightly different angle when he was announcing his departure, since one of the last things he said to me before ending our association was “I’m fed up of dating and trying to be nice to people”. This reinforces what spiderowl and many others on here have said; it seemed that this guy atleast partly tried to put on a ‘nice guy act’ in that initial ‘honeymoon period’ and then revealed his true, horrific colours at a time that he got angry about something so small. Wondering why I “don’t trust his intentions”. And then ending it completely and abruptly when I told him I was a bit hurt by his abuse but still willing to see him- oh the irony.

Edited December 15, 2020 by babybrowns

[tempover100]

I'm not sure what's left to be said that hasn't already been said. I was in a relationship with someone a bit like this - bad mouthing, negative, got upset at me for something he started, told me how *I* should feel about his comments, not very self-aware of his behavior.

All I can say is, you don't have to hope for anything for this man. You redirect that energy and work on yourself. Hope for a better partner and future for you. He's not a case study to be poked and prodded so you can understand him more. He's not a prize to be won so you forego all your natural instincts to claim victory at the cost of your well being. He is himself. You are yourself. We are all diff and our paths do not always lead us in the same direction. Next time someone treats you like this you'll hopefully see the signs. Make a list of pros and cons - all the bad, every arguments, the name calling, the gas lighting, etc. When the are more cons than pros it'll be easier to see what a lifetime dealing with them would be like. Take that in mind and realize there more fish in the sea. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by tempover100

[BaileyB]

On 12/14/2020 at 7:23 PM, Versacehottie said:

I think the suggestion to seek therapy and/or work on yourself are on point.  

I agree. 

Babybrowns, you have a definite pattern in dating/relationships. You tend to get very over-invested in men that you barely know, placing expectations on them that are just not realistic expectations to make of someone you barely know. Case in point, you got in an argument with a man that you have never met. You have a false sense of security because you have been talking with him for weeks, but you have never met the man - and you should NEVER meet a man who talks to you in this way. Furthermore, you tend to hang on way, way, way too long... Case in point, you are asking the question “will he come back” when you should be glad that he has shown you who he really is before you invest more of your time. You put up with far more than you should from these men, trying to make it work when they are lukewarm at best...

I understand, the constant disappointment and rejection that you experience when dating can absolutely destroy your self esteem and make you second guess your own better judgment... But, you are a good person and you should never tolerate this kind of behavior from a man. Value yourself more than this. Love yourself more than this. It’s better to be single than in a bad relationship... THAT is what you need to understand and really accept. Good luck. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by BaileyB