Sudden Retreat

[zenmama2]

I need some perspective.

I met a great guy this fall. We connected online, but I had known him casually in my community for years. He came on strong in the beginning, telling me I was exactly what he had been looking for. He helped me with my move and was wonderful! I was concerned that he was moving too fast and expressed my concern. He asked me, "Are you going to be able to do this or not?" I've been working on being softer and more vulnerable, so I decided to give it a chance. This was after about 3 weeks. He went off dating apps right away, saying that he prefers to date one person at a time. I'm fairly new to dating after the end of my 2 decade marriage and really liked this idea because I could focus just on him.

We had some great dates... long walks, dinners out, went to the casino, he made me dinner, movies, etc. I felt fairly comfortable, but did keep my guard up a bit. It was all new and I'm was walking the balance of opening up, but also moving slowly. He was so incredibly attentive and we really enjoyed our time. I began to trust him. He told me he was falling in love with me and that he had lost hope for love until meeting me. I was feeling the same way. It felt like home, so I took the chance. 

Our attraction was intense, but more intense on his end (men...) Against my own gut, I slept with him after about a month and then was hooked. I'm not one for casual sex. I communicated that if we took the relationship to that level, it was a big step for me and I'd need some reassurance that he wasn't going to disappear. He didn't and things kept moving along. We shared great intimacy.

He invited me to go on a trip to meet some of his family. I was thrilled and decided to go for it! We had a blast on the trip and I adored his family. We came back and I saw him the very next day. At this point I'm feeling VERY connected to him. He helped me move a few things out of my old place the day after we got home. He kissed me good bye and things kept going.

We texted daily, he would call just to chat, made plans for New Years Eve (talked about going on another trip)... That week he said he was missing me and would love for me to meet his kids when I was ready. I told him I'd love to. I have a firm 6 month rule for meeting my kids, so I didn't return the invitation. We were talking about a possible future together, dreaming, and just enjoying the ride.

On our trip, he was stressed because of the second Covid shut down that was severely affecting his business. He mentioned some other financial troubles and some problems with his ex. Red flags started to fly... I was worried about the gambling. He talked about it a lot and I wondered if he was hiding a bigger issue. He talked about his ex a lot and how she hurt him. I get that, as I'm recently divorced too and prefer to date others who had experienced divorce with kids. It's such a trauma that I like to date people who have a similar history. He didn't ask many questions about my life or seem too interested in learning about me in a deeper way. His interest seemed superficial at times, like I was an accessory- someone he could nurture and someone to be his plus one. In the beginning he would make time to be with me on the weeks he had his kids. As time went on, he stopped doing that. I like to put all of my attention on my kids when they are here, but I'd make time to see him. His moods seemed to fluctuate a bit (but he was totally stressed due to Covid and the financial impact it had). He was constantly texted- I noticed that his phone was going off all the time. So, there were red flags. I was noting them and deciding what would work for me.

Suddenly, on a Saturday, I felt him drift away. Some of this was my instinct. Some of it was facts. He stopped making plans and seemed very distant. I asked him if anything was going on, as I felt him pulling back. He replied that the latest events of the week were intensely stressful (alluding to the financial troubles he was having) and that he understood if he was just too much for me right now. Wait... what? We are both people pleasers and easily triggered by abandonment issues. We had discussed this. I said that I'd prefer to talk on the phone instead of text and he said he'd call me.

I waited all day and there was no call. Just excuses. He was avoiding the conversation. This triggered my abandonment and made me angry. I told him I could take a hint and to have a nice holiday. He replied, "What hint? I hope this isn't an indication of more drama coming to me." I felt this was incredibly rude and dismissive of my feelings, so I ignored it and chose to go to bed. Over the next few days, he never called. Only texted that he didn't have any love to give and was feeling incredibly depleted. This was less than a week after he had texted that he wanted me to meet his kids and after we had been making plans for New Year's Eve. I was floored. I communicated that I missed him and felt a huge void, but that I'd absolutely give him space. I told him I certainly didn't want to be just friends, but that the last thing either of us needed was more stress. I told him I was here for him, that I'd love to provide emotional support in whatever way he needed. Then he replied that his dad was in the hospital and probably was not going to survive. I brought a plant to his house with a card. He opened the door and cried when he saw me. I told him I'd bring him some food for Thanksgiving, but that I thought he should go be with his family instead of alone. He seemed very very depressed. He invited me in for coffee, but my teenage daughter was in the car and I couldn't.

That was the last time I saw him. I'll text him every few days just to let him know that I'm still here. He responds right away and once said he, "Had very little hope for the future." I'm worried about his mental health and miss him. That said, I'm not interested in fixing anyone, as I'm working on myself and building a great life. So, I went skiing and refocused on friends/work. I went back on the dating apps and had a few new dates. But he still has my heart and I think about him all of the time. I'm so disappointed and confused about what to do. 

He finally called me yesterday, but I only had about 20 minutes to talk. He updated me on everything and told me he thinks of me more than I know. I kept it light and friendly, just listening. I updated him as well, but most of the conversation focused on him. I told him that it was wonderful to hear his voice and I was so glad things were getting better for him. I had to get off the phone for a work call (I didn't want to get off, but I had an appointment). I wish I would have told him that I'd love to see him, but I'm afraid of being vulnerable with this man. 

I tend to pull away when I really like someone. I want to take things slowly. My divorce is recently final (I initiated the divorce) and I'm very very new to dating. 

So here's my question: What happened with this man? What should I do? I've dated quite a few people, but no one has sparked my interest like him. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by zenmama2

[FMW]

I think he told you what happened - financial and business worries can really be overwhelming.  Men especially are very affected by their stability and success in those areas.  Add to that the possibility of losing his father, he's surely feeling overloaded at the moment.

53 minutes ago, zenmama2 said:

 

I waited all day and there was no call. Just excuses. He was avoiding the conversation. This triggered my abandonment and made me angry. I told him I could take a hint and to have a nice holiday. He replied, "What hint? I hope this isn't an indication of more drama coming to me." I felt this was incredibly rude and dismissive of my feelings, so I ignored it and chose to go to bed.

It's understandable that you were upset that you weren't getting to have the conversation with him you wanted, but his reaction to your response is also understandable.  If he's stressed and depressed already he probably expected a little understanding, not more pressure. 

If you really want to give things a chance with him you're going to have to give him time and space to get other things under control.  He's not going to be in a position to be fully focused on you and your needs at the moment, he's got his own to deal with. 

You of course aren't responsible for fixing him or even helping him through his problems.  It's your decision if you want to stay in touch and see how things go.    

[smackie9]

Typical of someone who is bi-polar....they have very high highs (mania) they become intense, active, going into things full bore....then they crash into a depression. They can be narcissistic, rude, pull away, blame things and people for their despair. Sound familiar? Run for the frickin hills. This is how he is. Sorry you got pulled into it. This is your chance to heal and move on.

[poppyfields]

We really need to STOP with armchair diagnosis, we are not medical professionals.

OP, you said you've been dating since this fall?   So it's been around three months?  

If so, while FMW made excellent points, this 3-month shift in dynamic is not uncommon.

Your response is crucial here.  Do not allow your anxiety and insecurity to drive your ship.   Allow him his time and space to work  through whatever it is he needs to work through.  

Live your life same as before you met and use this time to evaluate if HE is the right man and fit for you.  

I see no evidence of "bipolar," such diagnoses involves much more than the behavior he has displayed here consistently over time.

Edited December 7, 2020 by poppyfields

[Fletch Lives]

I have to back Smakie......it's a possibility that he is bipolar, but I'd have to know more to say that for sure.

Perhaps he just has a lot of problems right now? It sounds like he's having a rough time with a sick family member and business trouble. Maybe this is not the best time for him. Plus, the relationship does not sound very serious, perhaps you are not ready to get serious since your divorce is fresh. Perhaps you should just be his friend for now. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, zenmama2 said:

I met a great guy this fall. 

We had some great dates... long walks, dinners out, went to the casino, he made me dinner, movies, etc. We shared great intimacy.

He mentioned some other financial troubles and some problems with his ex.  I was worried about the gambling. 

 He replied that the latest events of the week were intensely stressful

He replied, "What hint? I hope this isn't an indication of more drama coming to me."  I brought a plant to his house with a card. 

Sorry to hear this. It seems like too much too soon and he's using the "It's me, not you" excuse to back out. Too stressed, too confused too much going on etc.

This is an inordinate amount of drama for a few months dating. Unfortunately you got too attached too soon. He as well doesn't seem ready to date. 

Don't send angry preemptive strikes. Just observe,. When you noticed all the red flags that was your cue to pull back, reflect and reconsider things.
 

[poppyfields]

16 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Don't send angry preemptive strikes. Just observe,. When you noticed all the red flags that was your cue to pull back, reflect and reconsider things.

Wholeheartrdly agree with this^!  

[spiderowl]

You mentioned gambling, OP. This is a big red flag. Think about what part that plays in his life before you let your attachment get the better of you.

[Miss Spider]

I agree there is not enough evidence here(or any other than secondary source from an ex girlfriend) to diagnose a mood disorder, particularly bipolar. Where is the cycle of mania, moodiness, impulsivity, etc. 

 

It sounds like a typical situation of a person that coming came on strong and lost interest later. May or may not have been due to a recent break up before meeting you and also could have been triggered by the stress of financial/business struggles. No way of really knowing what was going on in his mind. It does seem like his way of handling a stressful situations is to retreat rather than be transparent. 

[ExpatInItaly]

There are a lot of red flags here, OP:

1) Came on strong and moved so fast you that you brought it to his attention

2) Talks about his ex a lot

3) Could be a problem gambler

4) Lack of interest in you and your life. 

This all reads like a man who loves the idea of being in love, and feeling wanted and desired, but is not actually ready for it. I think you're going to be best to let him go. The foundation here is just too flimsy to build on. 

[Lotsgoingon]

What happened to this guy, to directly answer your question, was that he ran into a woman who totally ignored her feelings and ignored the loud, clanging, alarms signaling danger.

This guy revealed his unfitness right away. What three weeks in, you felt that the pace was too fast. Let me translate that for you. Your feeling that things were moving too fast means ALARM. Something doesn't feel right. He's doing too much too soon, before I know him and have earned this level of attention and affection. I don't feel comfortable yet. I'm not even sure how much I’m into him.

You expressed concern that things were moving too fast. You are an adult. You don't express a concern to someone you are starting to date no more than you express a concern about them grabbing your butt in public without your consent.  You TELL them that things are moving too fast and YOU TELL THEM the pace has to slow down, period! You tell them No! You only go at the pace that you are comfortable with. PERIOD! If you feel rushed, that means not enough trust has built up in you, you don’t really trust him, which makes sense. You were only weeks into the relationship! It’s your job to heed this feeling. So that’s a big red flag that you ignored.

And then you fell for the classic manipulator's trick.  Don't worry, you're not alone. Very easy to fall for this trick. He asked me, "Are you going to be able to do this or not?  = complete dismissal of your feelings and concerns. And this is the verbal manipulator's ace trick of turning our words against us. That's not a red flag. That's ten-foot-tall concrete barricade in the road with a sign in front of it saying, "Dangerous cliff ahead." 

Your a attempt at a heart-safety prenup--a promise from him that if you opened up, he wouldn’t hurt you--just shows you're giving your power away and discarding your own feelings and your own judgment. If you feel you have to say that, then that means you DON'T TRUST THE GUY.  He has the right to dump you, and YOU have the right to dump him, at any point. Instead, your job is to use your adult skills to assess a guy and make sure the relationship feels safe. That’s your only protection—making sure you feel safe and that you are going at the pace you want.

And please cut out this I'll be here for you nonsense. It's not your job to be there for him. That's AFTER we have a long close bond with someone , after the person has treated us fabulously and we have built up layers and layers and years of trust. But in this case, we have another problem. People who run businesses see hard times ahead. They just don't wake up one day and find that their business has collapsed. So if his business was in trouble, if his finances were so precarious, why did he do the wining and dining thing so aggressively at the start? This guy sounds extremely impulsive, like someone who can't think two steps ahead.  Sounds like you got involved with you perhaps as a distraction from his problems. Not a guy you want.

You don't wait for this kind of guy. You cut off contact and move on.

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, Lotsgoingon said:

What happened to this guy, to directly answer your question, was that he ran into a woman who totally ignored her feelings and ignored the loud, clanging, alarms signaling danger.

This guy revealed his unfitness right away. What three weeks in, you felt that the pace was too fast. Let me translate that for you. Your feeling that things were moving too fast means ALARM. Something doesn't feel right. He's doing too much too soon, before I know him and have earned this level of attention and affection. I don't feel comfortable yet. I'm not even sure how much I’m into him.

You expressed concern that things were moving too fast. You are an adult. You don't express a concern to someone you are starting to date no more than you express a concern about them grabbing your butt in public without your consent.  You TELL them that things are moving too fast and YOU TELL THEM the pace has to slow down, period! You tell them No! You only go at the pace that you are comfortable with. PERIOD! If you feel rushed, that means not enough trust has built up in you, you don’t really trust him, which makes sense. You were only weeks into the relationship! It’s your job to heed this feeling. So that’s a big red flag that you ignored.

And then you fell for the classic manipulator's trick.  Don't worry, you're not alone. Very easy to fall for this trick. He asked me, "Are you going to be able to do this or not?  = complete dismissal of your feelings and concerns. And this is the verbal manipulator's ace trick of turning our words against us. That's not a red flag. That's ten-foot-tall concrete barricade in the road with a sign in front of it saying, "Dangerous cliff ahead." 

Your a attempt at a heart-safety prenup--a promise from him that if you opened up, he wouldn’t hurt you--just shows you're giving your power away and discarding your own feelings and your own judgment. If you feel you have to say that, then that means you DON'T TRUST THE GUY.  He has the right to dump you, and YOU have the right to dump him, at any point. Instead, your job is to use your adult skills to assess a guy and make sure the relationship feels safe. That’s your only protection—making sure you feel safe and that you are going at the pace you want.

And please cut out this I'll be here for you nonsense. It's not your job to be there for him. That's AFTER we have a long close bond with someone , after the person has treated us fabulously and we have built up layers and layers and years of trust. But in this case, we have another problem. People who run businesses see hard times ahead. They just don't wake up one day and find that their business has collapsed. So if his business was in trouble, if his finances were so precarious, why did he do the wining and dining thing so aggressively at the start? This guy sounds extremely impulsive, like someone who can't think two steps ahead.  Sounds like you got involved with you perhaps as a distraction from his problems. Not a guy you want.

You don't wait for this kind of guy. You cut off contact and move on.

[zenmama2]

7 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

There are a lot of red flags here, OP:

1) Came on strong and moved so fast you that you brought it to his attention

2) Talks about his ex a lot

3) Could be a problem gambler

4) Lack of interest in you and your life. 

This all reads like a man who loves the idea of being in love, and feeling wanted and desired, but is not actually ready for it. I think you're going to be best to let him go. The foundation here is just too flimsy to build on. 

I agree! This is what my gut is telling me. 

[GeorgiaPeach1]

1. The first red flag you willfully ignored was the fact that he came on too strong in the beginning, saying that you were "exactly" what he was looking for. It takes several months for a person's social mask to start slipping to where who they really are becomes clearer. He told you what he thought you wanted to hear, using flattery because it tends to work. 

2. If he's still going on and on about his ex and expressing anger, he is still emotionally connected to her and there is unfinished business there. This is possibly why he was getting non stop texts.

3. Financial issues and a potential gambling addiction??? Red flags.

4. "He didn't ask many questions about my life or seem too interested in learning about me in a deeper way." This is how someone behaves who has no intention of being around for the long haul. 

5.  "He stopped making plans and seemed very distant. I asked him if anything was going on, as I felt him pulling back." He was doing a slow fade. It's one thing for the texting to slow down over time, but the lack of plans indicate he doesn't want to be with you anymore. You should have cut him loose.  

6. "I waited all day and there was no call. Just excuses. He was avoiding the conversation. This triggered my abandonment and made me angry." At this point, the situation isn't even about him anymore. It becomes about your own psychological issues. 

7. He replied, "What hint? I hope this isn't an indication of more drama coming to me." This is classic manipulation, designed to get you to swallow his poor treatment.

8. "I communicated that I missed him and felt a huge void, but that I'd absolutely give him space. I told him I certainly didn't want to be just friends, but that the last thing either of us needed was more stress. I told him I was here for him, that I'd love to provide emotional support in whatever way he needed." He treats you like crap, and you offer your emotional support in whatever way he needs??? Now you're coming across as desperate for a crumb from him.

9. "Then he replied that his dad was in the hospital and probably was not going to survive." The fact that you were in the dark about this up until know means he was not intending on you two being together long term.

10. "I brought a plant to his house with a card. He opened the door and cried when he saw me. I told him I'd bring him some food for Thanksgiving, but that I thought he should go be with his family instead of alone." Were you invited to his house, or was this a last ditch effort for his attention?

11. "That was the last time I saw him. I'll text him every few days just to let him know that I'm still here." You aren't getting it. He wants to move on.

12. "I updated him as well, but most of the conversation focused on him. I told him that it was wonderful to hear his voice and I was so glad things were getting better for him." You have basically taught him that despite treating you like trash and bombarding you with sweet words that his actions didn't match, and he still has a place in your life. 

My heart breaks for you. I read this and saw myself in my early 20s. Please get to a good therapist. You deserve so much more than this poor treatment!

 

[Lotsgoingon]

You speak serious truth, GeorgiaPeach!

 

 

 

 

[zenmama2]

On 12/7/2020 at 12:19 PM, ExpatInItaly said:

There are a lot of red flags here, OP:

1) Came on strong and moved so fast you that you brought it to his attention

2) Talks about his ex a lot

3) Could be a problem gambler

4) Lack of interest in you and your life. 

This all reads like a man who loves the idea of being in love, and feeling wanted and desired, but is not actually ready for it. I think you're going to be best to let him go. The foundation here is just too flimsy to build on. 

 

4 hours ago, GeorgiaPeach1 said:

1. The first red flag you willfully ignored was the fact that he came on too strong in the beginning, saying that you were "exactly" what he was looking for. It takes several months for a person's social mask to start slipping to where who they really are becomes clearer. He told you what he thought you wanted to hear, using flattery because it tends to work. 

2. If he's still going on and on about his ex and expressing anger, he is still emotionally connected to her and there is unfinished business there. This is possibly why he was getting non stop texts.

3. Financial issues and a potential gambling addiction??? Red flags.

4. "He didn't ask many questions about my life or seem too interested in learning about me in a deeper way." This is how someone behaves who has no intention of being around for the long haul. 

5.  "He stopped making plans and seemed very distant. I asked him if anything was going on, as I felt him pulling back." He was doing a slow fade. It's one thing for the texting to slow down over time, but the lack of plans indicate he doesn't want to be with you anymore. You should have cut him loose.  

6. "I waited all day and there was no call. Just excuses. He was avoiding the conversation. This triggered my abandonment and made me angry." At this point, the situation isn't even about him anymore. It becomes about your own psychological issues. 

7. He replied, "What hint? I hope this isn't an indication of more drama coming to me." This is classic manipulation, designed to get you to swallow his poor treatment.

8. "I communicated that I missed him and felt a huge void, but that I'd absolutely give him space. I told him I certainly didn't want to be just friends, but that the last thing either of us needed was more stress. I told him I was here for him, that I'd love to provide emotional support in whatever way he needed." He treats you like crap, and you offer your emotional support in whatever way he needs??? Now you're coming across as desperate for a crumb from him.

9. "Then he replied that his dad was in the hospital and probably was not going to survive." The fact that you were in the dark about this up until know means he was not intending on you two being together long term.

10. "I brought a plant to his house with a card. He opened the door and cried when he saw me. I told him I'd bring him some food for Thanksgiving, but that I thought he should go be with his family instead of alone." Were you invited to his house, or was this a last ditch effort for his attention?

11. "That was the last time I saw him. I'll text him every few days just to let him know that I'm still here." You aren't getting it. He wants to move on.

12. "I updated him as well, but most of the conversation focused on him. I told him that it was wonderful to hear his voice and I was so glad things were getting better for him." You have basically taught him that despite treating you like trash and bombarding you with sweet words that his actions didn't match, and he still has a place in your life. 

My heart breaks for you. I read this and saw myself in my early 20s. Please get to a good therapist. You deserve so much more than this poor treatment!

 

Thank you. I’m just out of an unhealthy/codependent marriage that lasted 2 decades. I very much feel like I’m 20, as I got married when I was 23. I’m now 44 and have so much to learn. I see the red flags but excuse them. Classic people pleaser. I’ve had so much therapy just to leave the marriage, I think dating has to be off the table for quite a while after this experience.