Hmm. my issue or his?

[Lilia1099]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

No sure what this means? You haven't responded yet?

That is not about "open communication", that is about procrastination, game playing and basically bad manners.

Why wouldn't you reply to people's communication in a timely fashion? Do you work with other people? Can you blow them off for days, hours, weeks? 

I don't know...."I'll get back to them if/when I feel like it" comes off sort of arrogant. Sorry this would be a deal breaker. 

I meant respond when I finished work, which I did. I should have mentioned that.

Not intentionally ignore him, my work is very demanding and he gets it 

[Watercolors]

37 minutes ago, Lilia1099 said:

Poppy I am scared of being vulnerable which is partially where this stems from. I am confident in every aspect of my looks and career but being vulnerable with men makes me want to recoil! 
 

I worry that I will never be able to allow a guy to like me for me, and put all my cards on the table.

I am trying.

Still, fear is no excuse to be disrespectful and play games for attention. You know better than that. 

 

[Watercolors]

39 minutes ago, Lilia1099 said:

I meant respond when I finished work, which I did. I should have mentioned that.

Not intentionally ignore him, my work is very demanding and he gets it 

This is again, where your attitude comes across arrogant. You're too busy to respect his time and respond to him because you're too busy with your demanding work. Again, it's an example of you prioritizing your needs over someone else's. This isn't about a demanding work schedule. This is about who you choose to prioritize, and who you choose to treat like an option. You're treating your coworker like an option here. His emotional needs aren't your priority, or you wouldn't make up such a convenient excuse as being too busy with work to get back to him. That's playing games. It takes 30 seconds to respond to someone's text or email message. You have time. But you can't be bothered. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Watercolors

[Miss Spider]

So you guys have a date set?

[poppyfields]

54 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

Still, fear is no excuse to be disrespectful and play games for attention. You know better than that. 

Sadly, I think fear/anxiety drives many people to behave the way they do, which can often be hurtful and disrespectful.   It's not gender specific.

Not an excuse or justification, only an explanation.  

In Lilia's case, it's been a vicious cycle; fear drives her to play games and in turn the men she attracts play games.  Men who play games have an equal amount of fears and anxieties that drive them to behave the way they do.

Again, not an excuse and it's wrong!  It's hurtful, disingenuous and disrespectful.

The answer isn't to criticize the behavior or beat up on those who engage in it but rather to try and understand and encourage them to seek help for their anxieties, insecurity and fears. 

Lilia, you said you fear being vulnerable, this is a relatively common fear!  I used to fear being vulnerable as well, I also played games and did a lot of pretending in my previous relationships.

Even created a big ole thread about it years back on a different forum, went like 20+ pages!  Many people could relate.  

Anyway, look within to determine where the fear comes from.  Seek help to resolve it and other fears/phobias you may have surrounding close committed relationships.

Once you do (which I have and continue to) you will attract better, higher quality men to you, I promise you!

This guy?  Frankly, I think you will lose him most likely.  You are not anywhere near being ready to give what's required for a mutually-rewarding honest close committed relationship.

He may not be either, it's too soon to tell.

But you can try!  Do some research re such fears/anxiety and start making changes.  It starts and ends with you!

Edited December 9, 2020 by poppyfields

[Wiseman2]

On 12/6/2020 at 4:05 PM, Lilia1099 said:

It was recently my birthday and I received flowers from another guy (my friend, not dating).

I posted this to my snapchat story as it was a lovely gesture and they were very, very beautiful.

It's unclear why you have time for this nonsense but not replying in a timely fashion to communications. This hard-to-get game is backfiring.

[Watercolors]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

The answer isn't to criticize the behavior or beat up on those who engage in it but rather to try and understand and encourage them to seek help for their anxieties, insecurity and fears. 

The OP is very aware that she is playing games. She's admitted as such. And her lighthearted tone makes her seem somewhat detached (to me) as someone who doesn't take this issue all that seriously.

It doesn't take a lot to prioritize someone's feelings. It just takes the will, that desire, to respect another person. Yet, she won't do that. She makes the excuse that her work is too demanding to allow her to prioritize other people's feelings, like her coworker's. Yet, she couldn't find 30 seconds to respond to his online communication? I find that response intentional, not impossible. And the OP justifies her actions with the excuse of "fear." But her actions state otherwise (to me). 

I find it extremely hard to believe that someone as socially active online as the OP, doesn't know how to manage other people's expectations of her and the role she plays in their life. Someone who intentionally posted a bouquet of birthday flowers from another guy, to make her coworker jealous, is not someone who is paralyzed by fear. It's immature to behave that way. It shows a lack of consideration for other people's feelings. I'm speaking to the OP as an adult to another adult. 

When I see a spade, I call it a spade. - Oscar Wilde 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Watercolors

[Watercolors]

42 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's unclear why you have time for this nonsense but not replying in a timely fashion to communications. This hard-to-get game is backfiring.

My point exactly. You don't have time to respond to your coworker because of your demanding job, as you wrote in one of your posts. But you have time to post a bouquet of flowers to make him jealous? Then you think he's the one with the problem, when it's you who caused the misunderstanding with your male coworker in the first place by your actions and your actions alone. 

[introverted1]

2 hours ago, Lilia1099 said:

I meant respond when I finished work, which I did. I should have mentioned that.

Not intentionally ignore him, my work is very demanding and he gets it 

You've had time to post here (more than once), ergo, you've had time to respond to him.

[FMW]

If you feel it's acceptable and normal to play these games or whatever you want to call it, that may be a big part of your fear of being vulnerable - thinking others are going to do the same to you.  

Focusing on treating others the way you would want to be treated under the same circumstances might help you to lose some of that fear.  You'll get better results in your interactions with guys I'm sure.  

[Lilia1099]

43 minutes ago, FMW said:

If you feel it's acceptable and normal to play these games or whatever you want to call it, that may be a big part of your fear of being vulnerable - thinking others are going to do the same to you.  

Focusing on treating others the way you would want to be treated under the same circumstances might help you to lose some of that fear.  You'll get better results in your interactions with guys I'm sure.  

Yes I fully agree.

Because I do not want to be vulnerable, I play games to mask any real feeling, or allow it to even happen.

I am going to try and work on my own behaviour and actions.

I have finally understood my behaviour is that of avoidant attachment, which I truly never had any idea about before.

[Lilia1099]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Sadly, I think fear/anxiety drives many people to behave the way they do, which can often be hurtful and disrespectful.   It's not gender specific.

Not an excuse or justification, only an explanation.  

In Lilia's case, it's been a vicious cycle; fear drives her to play games and in turn the men she attracts play games.  Men who play games have an equal amount of fears and anxieties that drive them to behave the way they do.

Again, not an excuse and it's wrong!  It's hurtful, disingenuous and disrespectful.

The answer isn't to criticize the behavior or beat up on those who engage in it but rather to try and understand and encourage them to seek help for their anxieties, insecurity and fears. 

Lilia, you said you fear being vulnerable, this is a relatively common fear!  I used to fear being vulnerable as well, I also played games and did a lot of pretending in my previous relationships.

Even created a big ole thread about it years back on a different forum, went like 20+ pages!  Many people could relate.  

Anyway, look within to determine where the fear comes from.  Seek help to resolve it and other fears/phobias you may have surrounding close committed relationships.

Once you do (which I have and continue to) you will attract better, higher quality men to you, I promise you!

This guy?  Frankly, I think you will lose him most likely.  You are not anywhere near being ready to give what's required for a mutually-rewarding honest close committed relationship.

He may not be either, it's too soon to tell.

But you can try!  Do some research re such fears/anxiety and start making changes.  It starts and ends with you!

I agree with all of the above.

I have looked into my behaviour and it seems to mirror that it avoidant attachment. 
 

This is something that only I can fix and ultimately need to meet the right partner who will ultimately help with me quashing such behaviour.

My fear of vulnerability and subsequent behaviour seems irrational to some, I get it.

I just need to spend some time working out where the fear comes from, exactly as you said.

Deep down I think turbulent past relationships and emotional abuse has created this fear of vulnerability. I can’t bare to go through it again so I felt safer playing games.

I know it can’t continue and I’m ready to welcome positive change. Mainly to my behaviour.

[FMW]

53 minutes ago, Lilia1099 said:

ultimately need to meet the right partner who will ultimately help with me

You need to come to terms with things yourself, it's not about somebody else helping you.  Do the inner work to feel confident and secure within yourself - not in relation to a specific person.  

[poppyfields]

10 minutes ago, FMW said:

You need to come to terms with things yourself, it's not about somebody else helping you.  Do the inner work to feel confident and secure within yourself - not in relation to a specific person.  

I am thinking perhaps she means meet the man she feels safe enough to become vulnerable with.   The men she meets and dates don't cut it.  They exacerbate it because like seeks like and because she plays games, the met she meets play games.  Hardly the type of men she or any woman is going to feel safe opening up to and allowing herself to feel vulnerable with.

Lilia, it does start with you though.  Work on you.  Make a decision.  No more games!  Just do it (or DON'T do it).  Type out a note in big bold letters and tape it to your fridge -- NO MORE GAMES!!  lol

The right man will eventually come along.

Edited December 9, 2020 by poppyfields

[Watercolors]

1 hour ago, Lilia1099 said:

This is something that only I can fix and ultimately need to meet the right partner who will ultimately help with me quashing such behaviour.

No one can change your behavior, Lilia. Only you can change your behavior. You need to stop being manipulative.

The only way around your manipulative tendancies, is to replace those tendancies with healthier coping strategies. 

The more respectful you are of others' feelings, and the more effort you make in directly communicating your feelings to the other person in the moment (no more 'Im too busy with my demanding career to timely answer your emails/texts/messages'), the more respect you'll garner from other people and in turn, they will give you the same respect. So, it has to start with you. 

Like others have advised, treat others the way that you want to be treated. It's really that simple. 

 

[Watercolors]

24 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

   The men she meets and dates don't cut it. 

I understand why you feel the need to defend Lilia. But blaming it on the men she dates as the reason she chooses to manipulate them is short-sighted and plain wrong. I'm sorry. This is about Lilia's choices and the consequences of her choices. 

The men she meets are a variable in the larger problem here: which is that Lilia can't/won't directly communicate with the men she dates; she won't respect them enough to respond to their communcation; she doesn't tell them the truth and makes excuses for it; she prioritizes herself over other's in a way that undermines others' trust in her and discredits her as trustworthy at the same time. 

[poppyfields]

45 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

I understand why you feel the need to defend Lilia. But blaming it on the men she dates as the reason she chooses to manipulate them is short-sighted and plain wrong. I'm sorry. This is about Lilia's choices and the consequences of her choices. 

The men she meets are a variable in the larger problem here: which is that Lilia can't/won't directly communicate with the men she dates; she won't respect them enough to respond to their communcation; she doesn't tell them the truth and makes excuses for it; she prioritizes herself over other's in a way that undermines others' trust in her and discredits her as trustworthy at the same time. 

I am not defending her WC, not even sure why you say that.   I have posted pretty much ad nauseum from the start that she needs to stop playing games, it's wrong and hurtful.

However, I do understand her fears, they are not all that uncommon.  And the hurtful behaviors that result from such fears.  Re the men she meets, like attracts like.  So yeah the men she meets are (or were) also into games, chasing games and she became accustomed to that.    Such men fostered her dysfunctional mindset that playing "hard to get" games work.  No one is to "blame" it was what is was, the dynamic she and these men established, together.

Now she meets a man who is NOT into those games (from what we know of him anyway) and it's causing her to now question.  To look within, introspect and seek answers.  Make changes.  

I am encouraging her to do that, that's all.  Not defending her.  Big difference.

Edited December 10, 2020 by poppyfields

[Wiseman2]

13 hours ago, Lilia1099 said:

I need to meet the right partner who will ultimately help with me quashing such behaviour.

Sorry but I disagree with this. A doctor and therapist are the people to help you with this

Dating is not about how much BS someone will tolerate from you.

Nor is it about inflicting your armchair faux diagnosis on anyone and expecting them to fix you.

Stay single for a while until you feel more confident in yourself and your manner of interaction with people.

Generally people who use maladaptive and manipulative ways to interact have personality issues that can be helped with therapy that addresses these cognative distortions and focuses on replacing self-defeating behaviors with more satisfying and successful approaches.

You will feel better when you talk to a qualified professional who can help you with recognizing the ridgid thinking and helping you out of self destructive behaviors.

[LynneVicious]

Honestly op, you are not ready to date right now. People should only date when their life is in order... employed, stable - including emotionally, no ex baggage looming. 
 

the other poster is right. If you have time to post here, you have time to look over your calendar and text him with a time and date for your next date. It takes 3 minutes maybe. 
 

let this poor guy go. Work on yourself and getting healthy mentally and emotionally before you try dating. Dating before your life is in order - both physically and emotionally and this is the result. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by LynneVicious

[poppyfields]

Lilia, I agree with seeking therapy to help you sort this out.  I did, it helped me a lot!  Still does.  

I never thought in a zillion years I'd get to this place in my life - happily engaged to a great guy.

I'd never have gotten here without the help of my great therapist, and ME, my commitment to change my destructive behaviors, make better choices and improve myself and my life. 

Re this guy, the subject of this thread, you know I'm not convinced he's all that anyway.  I mean despite your rather **** behaviour, he's still chasing, still trying to pull you.  Telling you he's "not sure of you or how you feel" or whatever. 

That's him still chasing, whereas a secure, confident man seeking a relationship would have never tolerated your games, and went for the straight NEXT.

Anyway, others are right, it's NOT about the men you date, it's about you. 

Admittedly, you have issues to work through, so please at least consider getting some professional help.

Good luck and be happy! 

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by poppyfields

[Watercolors]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Re this guy, the subject of this thread, you know I'm not convinced he's all that anyway.  I mean despite your rather **** behaviour, he's still chasing, still trying to pull you.  Telling you he's "not sure of you or how you feel" or whatever. 

That's him still chasing, whereas a secure, confident man seeking a relationship would have never tolerated your games, and went for the straight NEXT.

We'll have to disagree about the guy, Poppy. 

There's no evidence in Lilia's posts that he's chasing her, giving her mixed messaes or playing games with her at all. Rather, it seems he was trying to find out where he stood with Lilia, and she simply refused to tell him. Lilia is the one who neds to get help with her maladaptive behaviors that cause these incidents with the men she dates. Blaming the victim (her coworker) is just 100% wrong here. She led him on after their little tryst, lied to him intentionally, with that floral boquet post she posted to make him jealous, then refused to follow up with him after that, until HE finally reached out to her to find out what the heck was going on between them. If anyone's a victim here, it's him. 

[poppyfields]

23 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

We'll have to disagree about the guy, Poppy. 

There's no evidence in Lilia's posts that he's chasing her, giving her mixed messaes or playing games with her at all. Rather, it seems he was trying to find out where he stood with Lilia, and she simply refused to tell him. Lilia is the one who neds to get help with her maladaptive behaviors that cause these incidents with the men she dates. Blaming the victim (her coworker) is just 100% wrong here. She led him on after their little tryst, lied to him intentionally, with that floral boquet post she posted to make him jealous, then refused to follow up with him after that, until HE finally reached out to her to find out what the heck was going on between them. If anyone's a victim here, it's him. 

No worries WC, it was jmo. I probably shouldn't have even mentioned. 

That said, clarifying once again, I am not blaming anyone.  I dislike the word "blame" it has an ugly connotation to it.

"Taking responsibility" is more my style which I have been encouraging Lilia to do.

Anyhoo, as you and others have said, the men are not the problem, including him.

Lilia is.  Game-playing is destructive, it's hurtful.  So I hope she will seek help as Wiseman originally advised, to sort out where these destructive behaviors stem from, resolve, and make changes.  

I trust we are in agreement about that at least?

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

30 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I trust we are in agreement about that at least?

@Watercolorsyou did "thank" Wiseman for his post advising therapy after all, did you not?  

In any event, we are on the same page WC and always have been.

We just have different styles of posting and for some reason my posts are being misinterpreted to mean I'm blaming the men or whatever.  

Which I'm not.  I'm empathizing with Lilia, which is different from defending her or absolving her from taking responsibility for her destructive and hurtful actions.  

Nuff said, good luck Lilia.  

Edited December 10, 2020 by poppyfields

[Lilia1099]

1 hour ago, Watercolors said:

We'll have to disagree about the guy, Poppy. 

There's no evidence in Lilia's posts that he's chasing her, giving her mixed messaes or playing games with her at all. Rather, it seems he was trying to find out where he stood with Lilia, and she simply refused to tell him. Lilia is the one who neds to get help with her maladaptive behaviors that cause these incidents with the men she dates. Blaming the victim (her coworker) is just 100% wrong here. She led him on after their little tryst, lied to him intentionally, with that floral boquet post she posted to make him jealous, then refused to follow up with him after that, until HE finally reached out to her to find out what the heck was going on between them. If anyone's a victim here, it's him. 

When did I ever lie to him?

Your post makes no sense and is factually incorrect.

[Miss Spider]

Yea, you’re playing it too cool. Need to ease up a little. I feel like even if you play games, super interested guys will still stick around and put up with them. It’s very hard to deter an  interested man. Try your best to knock the wall down. I think people are being a little harsh. You didn’t do anything horrible to him.   You guys still talking/made plans? 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes