I Think My Ex Spoiled Me for Future Relationships.

[ThereSheGoes]

6 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

@ThereSheGoesand @miss2017you ever see the movie "Kate and "Leopold"?  If not, I highly recommend.

You will LOVE Leopold (Hugh Jackman) I promise you!!   Men in today's dating environment could learn a lot from him, but they won't, sadly.

@ThereSheGoesI have no idea where you're meeting these bozos but wherever it is, get rid. Try a higher quality website like Elite. 

I've never once met or dated what you describe, it sounds god  awful.  I'd rather not date anyone and be alone. 

Congrats on your "A"!!

 

Oh yeah, I've seen that movie! He was so sweet. Kind, warm, protective.

Another example! The character Bob Wallace from White Christmas. He could dance, he was smart, he was funny, he was kinda, generous, warm, protective. To a woman who was INDEPENDENT. Made her own money, did her own thing. WAS successful. Betty was not even thinking about him, but he stayed consistent and kind.

[poppyfields]

25 minutes ago, ThereSheGoes said:

 

Oh yeah, I've seen that movie! He was so sweet. Kind, warm, protective.

Another example! The character Bob Wallace from White Christmas. He could dance, he was smart, he was funny, he was kinda, generous, warm, protective. To a woman who was INDEPENDENT. Made her own money, did her own thing. WAS successful. Betty was not even thinking about him, but he stayed consistent and kind.

Leopard had those "old school" values, holding doors, getting up from table when the lady got up (to use rest room for example), my ex did that!

We were from an upper middle class area in NY and that's how men were raised, to be polite like that, true gentlemen, pay for dates, holding doors, all of it.

I became quite entitled, I must admit.  

Moved to CA, what a culture shock!  I recall being at the beach and guy approached me asking me on his boat; I declined and he gave me his phone number and told ME to call HIM!  Lol

I was like, wait a sec, shouldn't this be the other way around?  I dont remember what he said but I never called and that was that.  

I am not nearly as entitled as I used to be, but I hear ya re men being gallant.  I like it too.

My fiance is to a point, he's quite protective and when we first started dating he actually enjoyed paying, it made him happy to treat me!  He also liked how appreciative I was, made him feel like a freakin king. 

Yin/yang, Mars/Venus, we're both into that so it works.  

It's more balanced now, but I kinda miss those days of being "courted."  Sigh. 

Anyway, like I said, you need to start surrounding yourself with higher quality men.  

Choose wisely from the get go and avoid BS later!  

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by poppyfields

[basil67]

On 12/1/2020 at 5:15 PM, ThereSheGoes said:

3.You need to possess traditional values when it comes to dating.

I mean, the type of stuff that your grandmother said that your grandpa used to do for her when they were courting. Walk closest to the street, help me with my bags, help me out of the car, hold my hand as I'm walking down the stairs, pick me up on our dates, PAY for our dates, open the doors, walk me to my Uber, give a sense of protection, so on and so forth.  I found it strangely natural for me (and I hate using Hypergamous language here, but) to 'Rest in my feminine energy' when I was with him.  In reply, I naturally wanted to soothe him, to comfort him, to relax him, to make a safe space for him and just generally be a refuge of peace and pleasure for him, because he made me feel protected, respected and honored. I never really felt that way with previous boyfriends. Let alone, was ALLOWED to be in that type of space with someone, because I always felt like the give and take was one sided. And I usually felt like I was giving up a lot (which was access to my body) in exchange, for....what?....I met up with my boyfriend at Chili's and I paid for my chicken fajitas, and now.....I should give you sex? Because you're my boyfriend and we haven't had sex in two weeks? It was hardly ever romantic, and I think its because I never ever felt protected and honored by them. It just felt like I had to, because as the woman I had to keep him sexually satisfied? But I wasn't receiving anything from him in return. 

The olden days sucked for a lot of reasons, and I would never want to go back and live those years, but....they had something going right when it came to dating, and I miss that.

I've got a few thoughts on this. I think you're over romanticising the lives that our grandmothers and great grandmothers had.   Many people were poorer back then and didn't go out on lovely dates.  They didn't have cars to be helped from.  And the women were strong and resourceful (arguably more so than many modern women) who could cook, sew their own clothes, wash the clothes in a boiler, raise a brood of children without help from the father.   They certainly didn't have time to "rest in feminine energy"

While there's a lot to be said for chivalry (from both genders), I'd suggest that you look for someone who helps you when you *need* help.   For example, if you've got all the bags, he should offer to carry some.  If you've got a cake on your lap in the car, then you absolutely need to be helped out.  If you've worn heels for your date, you may need a steadying hand on uneven surfaces or stairs.  If they are really silly heels, you may need to be dropped at the door of the restaurant without him complaining.   If you're cold, he could offer his jacket...but if you're both cold, then go somewhere warmer.    But if a guy who doesn't help when you don't need help otherwise ticks your boxes, don't ditch him.

And while it's nice for him to pay at first, if you're earning a good salary...it's only decent for you to pay sometimes too.

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately you are in a tough place to date.

Living at home at 30, broke, student, and still hung up on the ex.

Perhaps you will have better luck when your financial professional and living situation improves.

It's nice to make lists, but at this point it looks more like you are trying to find a way out of your financial and housing dilemmas by fantasizing about prince charming.

It also seems like you believe acting like someone's mother is your salvation and justification for not being independent.

[Shining One]

14 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Men in today's dating environment could learn a lot from him, but they won't, sadly.

If those actions produced positive results, then they would be more common. I practiced many of those gentlemanly behaviors throughout my late teens and most of my twenties, otherwise known as my involuntarily celibate years. Ironically, the joke advice from Saturday Night Live is more practical: "Be Attractive, Don't Be Unattractive".

[Weezy1973]

19 hours ago, ThereSheGoes said:

I never said that Blake was a good man. He isn't. He's selfish, he's narcissistic, he was controlling and he had lot of insecurities which were tied to his own ego and his self worth. I don't want another Blake.

So these things, and looking to avoid them, or making sure a future partner is the opposite (I.e. kind, honest, empathetic, secure etc.) is far more important than most of the things on your list.

How a man dresses, how much money he makes, how “traditional” he is, if he pays for dates etc. has absolutely no correlation with how good a long term partner he will be. From what I’ve seen, people that continually struggle with relationships seem to put an outsized importance on the courting / early stages of dating. If instead your focus was on core values, and specifically those qualities that make someone a good long term partner (dependable, reliable, kind, honest, trustworthy etc.) you might have better outcomes.

[Miss Spider]

Sure, a lot of “traditional“ beliefs seem at least loosely hinged on sexism, at least to me. But I guess the two do not have to be mutually exclusive. You can be a “traditional” partner and a “nice”. And you can search for both. If you haven’t noticed, it is a big trigger around here for some men in particular to want to be “courted” especially in regards to having them pay for stuff. I can see why that might be, I guess. But people find their people. Maybe they should link up with the women that get insulted when men offer to pay or open a door for them. 
 

Living at home/being unemployed at your age, in addition to expecting a partner who is employed is the biggest issue I see. But as a student living at home myself, it’s never been an issue.  You are in school, you do have goals, and are grad in a few month 
 

 

[Woggle]

What it boils down to is that for the past few decades women have been telling men how sexist the old traditions are and that they were unwilling to do it so now it just seems jarring that many women all of a sudden want men to do it. Ripping up a social contract and only expecting one side to adhere to the old ways doesn't seem very fair to me.

[ThereSheGoes]

10 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately you are in a tough place to date.

Living at home at 30, broke, student, and still hung up on the ex.

Perhaps you will have better luck when your financial professional and living situation improves.

It's nice to make lists, but at this point it looks more like you are trying to find a way out of your financial and housing dilemmas by fantasizing about prince charming.

It also seems like you believe acting like someone's mother is your salvation and justification for not being independent.

 

I'm not looking for a Prince Charming. ( Because I want a Bob Wallace.)

I don't want to live with a man.

I don't want a man to pay my bills.

I don't want a man to give me a place to live. In fact, Blake asked me if I would consider moving in with him. I said no. As a 'broke 30 year old college student who is still living at home' I said no.

I never have been able to envision myself living with a man. 

I don't want him buying me clothes. Why, because I have my own shopping addiction. That I fund. With my money. Not my mom's. Not my family's. My personal money. 

I don't want anything from him financially. Just. Pay. For. The. Date. Thats it. I'm not asking for anything else from his wallet. Just pay for dinner.

 

And considering that I have met several women who don't have goals, who are working a dead ends with kids and exes hanging around and STILL get partnered and married, I still think I am prime dating material. I am graduating with a degree in hand. I'm in an internship which has a 90% chance of turning into full time hire, which even if it DOESN'T, my specific job title is highly sought after and hiring agents are constantly searching for individuals to fill those positions. Especially now.

I have a 2-year plan and a 5-year plan. The two year is almost accomplished, and ends with me moving out of my mom's by August 30th, 2021. This was something I promised myself and I set myself. I obviously have dedication and drive if I am able to accomplish all of the things that I charged myself with, in just two years. AND get my degree while doing it. I have no kids, good credit (pretty good for a broke college student, eh?)  and no exes hanging about.

 I still think about Blake and miss what we had, but if I ever saw him again, I'ed spit on him.

......Okay, maybe not PHYSICALLY spit, thats really gross, but you get my meaning.

I come baggage free and I'm looking for the same. I'm not looking for a guy so I can play Cinderella to. I'm looking for the Bob to my Betty.

[ThereSheGoes]

1 hour ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Sure, a lot of “traditional“ beliefs seem at least loosely hinged on sexism, at least to me. But I guess the two do not have to be mutually exclusive. You can be a “traditional” partner and a “nice”. And you can search for both. If you haven’t noticed, it is a big trigger around here for some men in particular to want to be “courted” especially in regards to having them pay for stuff. I can see why that might be, I guess. But people find their people. Maybe they should link up with the women that get insulted when men offer to pay or open a door for them. 
 

Living at home/being unemployed at your age, in addition to expecting a partner who is employed is the biggest issue I see. But as a student living at home myself, it’s never been an issue.  You are in school, you do have goals, and are grad in a few month 
 

 

 

Yes, and I would think that was unfair too. If I wasn't doing anything about it.  My whole life is about to change in the next few months. Is it really unfair to expect someone to be on that same level?

[ThereSheGoes]

2 minutes ago, Woggle said:

What it boils down to is that for the past few decades women have been telling men how sexist the old traditions are and that they were unwilling to do it so now it just seems jarring that many women all of a sudden want men to do it. Ripping up a social contract and only expecting one side to adhere to the old ways doesn't seem very fair to me.

 

Do you think men from back in the day got the short end of the stick? Because their wives would just cook and clean and take care of the kids. Do you think that was unfair, that the men had to pick up the tabs, and the women just cleaned and cooked?

[Woggle]

1 minute ago, ThereSheGoes said:

 

Do you think men from back in the day got the short end of the stick? Because their wives would just cook and clean and take care of the kids. Do you think that was unfair, that the men had to pick up the tabs, and the women just cleaned and cooked?

I don't think it was fair. I fully support 50/50 equality but you can't rebel against anything traditional on the women's part and then demand that men live up to our traditional role. 

[Miss Spider]

1 minute ago, ThereSheGoes said:

 

Yes, and I would think that was unfair too. If I wasn't doing anything about it.  My whole life is about to change in the next few months. Is it really unfair to expect someone to be on that same level?

Not unfair. But expectations often disappoint. I will say I think the whole “I offer this, this, and this, so I should get someone with the same’ is a fallacy at best. 
 

Putting aside that people really don’t always  judge themselves correctly,  people also just don’t work that way. Attraction doesn’t work like “oh, you also make 50 K like me. So I am attracted to you” ( although studies have shown people generally do end up with people in the same socioeconomic bracket) No,  there are a lot of other factors involved. One other person said it best. We get what we deserve. And again, we are not the best judges of that. Who we end up with or what we can actually get is a better indicator. If someone keeps striking out with someone they believe they “deserve“, well... I got some bad news for them 

Case in point. I’m a POS that’s dated some really great men. Just kidding. But I have dated quite a few men “out of my league“ if you look at the papers. 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Not unfair. But expectations often disappoint. I will say I think the whole “I offer this, this, and this, so I should get someone with the same’ is a fallacy at best. 
 

Especially when it’s about career / earnings. For most men, a woman’s education and career / income doesn’t really move the needle. As long as she can take care of herself, that’s pretty much it. Women tend to place a lot of value on those things, and studies show they want a man at least as educated / successful as themselves. A woman living at home and then locking down a good career and living out in her own will only increase her options a bit, whereas a man going through the same changes will increase his options a lot. 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, ThereSheGoes said:

 

Do you think men from back in the day got the short end of the stick? Because their wives would just cook and clean and take care of the kids. Do you think that was unfair, that the men had to pick up the tabs, and the women just cleaned and cooked?

No, he didn't get the short end of the stick as he owned all the property.  And depending on how far back you go, her assets would all become his too.   

Also, what do you mean by "just" cooked and cleaned?  

Edited December 6, 2020 by basil67

[ThereSheGoes]

23 hours ago, basil67 said:

No, he didn't get the short end of the stick as he owned all the property.  And depending on how far back you go, her assets would all become his too.   

Also, what do you mean by "just" cooked and cleaned?  

 

This is true.

I was referring to some replies that insinuated that keeping a home wasn't equitable to bringing home an income.

[basil67]

@ThereSheGoes You replies this to Woggle,  but he suggested no such thing.  

[Woggle]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

@ThereSheGoes You replies this to Woggle,  but he suggested no such thing.  

You would be right. I have all the respect in the world for homemakers even if I wouldn't want that kind of marriage in my life. I think they should be paid actually and if a man wants a wife like that then his money is her money as well.

What I am talking about is how everything traditional has been called sexist and if a man wants a traditional woman in his life he is a misogynist. Men have had to adjust to a new reality in the dating world so why shouldn't women? If you want to throw out the old rule book you can't just save all the pages that benefit you, burn all the ones that benefit the male gender and then expect men to just be okay with this.

Chivalry amongst many things is a casualty of the gender war.

[basil67]

2 hours ago, Woggle said:

What I am talking about is how everything traditional has been called sexist and if a man wants a traditional woman in his life he is a misogynist.

"Everything traditional has been called sexist".    Where is some respected research to back this up?

 

2 hours ago, Woggle said:

Chivalry amongst many things is a casualty of the gender war.

 I've had strangers help me with doors when my arms are full. I've had young people offer me a seat on the bus.   I've stopped to help stranded skiiers and old people cross the road or manage bags.  I see tourists looking lost and help them too.  I assist at car accidents (we live near a black spot) So yes, chivalry does still exist.   But let's not mistake helping someone who doesn't need help as being an act of chivalry.   And I firmly believe that true chivalry is not gendered.

[Highndry]

I mean no disrespect, but I wouldn't even be dating a woman if we only had sex 5 times in 8 months. Of course, I wouldn't even make it to the 8 months mark. 5 times is an average week. No wonder the guy was complaining. Why were you two even together at that point? Makes no sense whatsoever.

I think you need to do a better job at dating men you are sexually attracted to. Sex is a very important part of any intimate relationship. Without it, the relationship is not whole. And no man is going to be happy without sex. I'm sorry, that's just reality. If we're not getting sex in a relationship, it's pure misery. We'd rather be hanging out with our buddies than doing the relationship thing without the good part.

[ThereSheGoes]

On 12/9/2020 at 12:45 AM, Highndry said:

I mean no disrespect, but I wouldn't even be dating a woman if we only had sex 5 times in 8 months. Of course, I wouldn't even make it to the 8 months mark. 5 times is an average week. No wonder the guy was complaining. Why were you two even together at that point? Makes no sense whatsoever.

I think you need to do a better job at dating men you are sexually attracted to. Sex is a very important part of any intimate relationship. Without it, the relationship is not whole. And no man is going to be happy without sex. I'm sorry, that's just reality. If we're not getting sex in a relationship, it's pure misery. We'd rather be hanging out with our buddies than doing the relationship thing without the good part.

 

We both lived with family, and I was uncomfortable having sex with him, with his family in the home. But I had lost attraction for him by the time he got to the nagging phase. Even kissing (which we didn't do often) was not something I was into with him.

[ThereSheGoes]

On 12/7/2020 at 2:30 PM, basil67 said:

@ThereSheGoes You replies this to Woggle,  but he suggested no such thing.  

 

I know he didn't.

[ThereSheGoes]

On 12/7/2020 at 4:54 PM, Woggle said:

You would be right. I have all the respect in the world for homemakers even if I wouldn't want that kind of marriage in my life. I think they should be paid actually and if a man wants a wife like that then his money is her money as well.

What I am talking about is how everything traditional has been called sexist and if a man wants a traditional woman in his life he is a misogynist. Men have had to adjust to a new reality in the dating world so why shouldn't women? If you want to throw out the old rule book you can't just save all the pages that benefit you, burn all the ones that benefit the male gender and then expect men to just be okay with this.

Chivalry amongst many things is a casualty of the gender war.

Which parts of the traditional lifestyle do you find specifically caters to the male in the relationship?

[Trail Blazer]

On 12/11/2020 at 6:35 AM, ThereSheGoes said:

 

We both lived with family, and I was uncomfortable having sex with him, with his family in the home. But I had lost attraction for him by the time he got to the nagging phase. Even kissing (which we didn't do often) was not something I was into with him.

How do you lose attraction?  Was it perhaps that you weren't ever fully attracted to him in the physical sense?

I think women (and perhaps people in general) who aren't fully attracted to a guy physically expect a lot more from him in other ways.

 

[ThereSheGoes]

9 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

How do you lose attraction?  Was it perhaps that you weren't ever fully attracted to him in the physical sense?

I think women (and perhaps people in general) who aren't fully attracted to a guy physically expect a lot more from him in other ways.

 

 

I was attracted to him when we first met. He had always sported longish hair, and a full beard. But he kept the beard trimmed when we first started dating,  and would style his hair with pomade. He had beautiful clear teal-colored eyes, they were gorgeous (and he knew it). He also had very dark hair, so the eyes with the hair, they contrasted and complimented each other. So with a manicured beard, and his hair out of his face, wearing clothes that suited his personal style and body type.....I was attracted. But over time, he started to no longer trim his beard, his hair always looked greasy and in his face, and towards the end of our relationship, I didn't see him in anything other than sweats. I also began to notice that overall, he wasn't that particular when it came to his hygiene. He would smell stale. I'm a woman that showers every day, sometimes twice a day, and to see your boyfriend come home from his factory job, all sweaty and dusty, climb in to bed, without taking a shower.....and then wake up and go back to work, again, without showering...........repulsed me.

 

And then I noticed he seemed very insecure about himself. Which isn't attractive, whether you're male or female. He lied to me about his political leanings at the beginning, and so when I found out how he truly felt, and what he truly thought about people who were apart of MY community......I lost more attraction. So by the time we got to the nagging about sex, the nagging about my friendships, the complaining, the b*tching, the whining.........I was over him, to be honest.