First Date Ended Early Because of Emergency!

[kiwistwbry]

23 minutes ago, Crazelnut said:

Ok, so let's stop calling it a "so-called emergency." Let's assume it was legit. There is still too much drama with this guy to warrant further pursuit. He's caught up with other addicts who are actively using. That risks his sobriety. He's caught up with a friend with serious mental health issues. That sucks up a lot of his time and energy.  And the mother of his kid is a junkie -- unreliable, selfish, bad co-parent. That impacts every aspect of his life. 

Do not reach out. Let it go.

I hear what you’re saying for sure. It’s a lot to think about and I’m definitely giving all of it more consideration.

[balletomane]

20 hours ago, kiwistwbry said:

And you don’t think this guy is in rescuer mode? Trying to help his friend, and trying to help his ex/child’s mother. 

Maybe he proceeded with the date because he actually liked me and didn’t want me to think he was just blowing me off by canceling. Maybe he showed me the texts so I didn’t think he was just being a jerk and blowing me off by cutting the date short. Maybe something pretty bad happened after he left and he hasn’t felt comfortable texting me like he said he would.

What about all of these possibilities? Might seem far fetched to the majority of you, and yet him just making it all up doesn’t seem far fetched?? I don’t understand why everyone is assuming he’s just a big fat liar.

I think we can all agree we don’t know this guy, but why assume the worst instead of the best? And maybe meet in the middle somehow with our judgments of him?

Yes, based on what he shared with you, I do think he's probably in rescuer mode too. But I don't see this as a desirable or hopeful thing, whereas going by your other posts you seem to be taking it as something you have in common and another reason to contact him.

This doesn't mean I think he's lying. As I said in my first post, he could be 100% truthful...but still not be in the right place to date, or an ideal person to have in your life. It's not that black and white. But it's also a moot point, as it's not possible to know someone's character based on one meeting and some messages. Pointing this out isn't believing the worst; it's being realistic. All we can realistically go here in is his behaviour to you during and after the date, and there are several indicators that this is not a good situation.

Looking at the whole thing, two things jump out at me. The key differences between having a rescuer mentality and experiencing pure compassion for someone are a.) a conviction that no one else cares about or can help the person in the way that you can and b.) enjoyment of the 'drama' of helping/need for an audience. Both these things are evident in how he acted - he was critical of other people in his life (a definite warning sign on a first date), adamant that he and only he could help his friend (when as someone four years in recovery, he should know that a friend is just one part of a wider support system, not a saviour), and he showed you his friend's texts, turning you into a spectator on the drama. He might be a very sincere well-meaning person, but this behaviour is troubling no matter what his intentions are like.

[smackie9]

On 11/30/2020 at 8:14 AM, Ruby Slippers said:

I wouldn't go on a second date with a guy who couldn't be more present than that on the first date. I agree that if his friend's situation was so dire he needed to be a constant check-in buddy, he simply should have postponed the date to a time when he had the proper attention to give to it.

This is what sticks out to me the most. If he had any decency he wouldn't be going on a date and then dragging a total stranger into something very personal. This doesn't sit right with all of us. I would find this inappropriate/odd behavior to bring to a meet up/date. I can see why this looks quite bizarre/confusing......because it's not normal. My gut tells me there is something really wrong with this.

[kiwistwbry]

1 hour ago, smackie9 said:

This is what sticks out to me the most. If he had any decency he wouldn't be going on a date and then dragging a total stranger into something very personal. This doesn't sit right with all of us. I would find this inappropriate/odd behavior to bring to a meet up/date. I can see why this looks quite bizarre/confusing......because it's not normal. My gut tells me there is something really wrong with this.

I agree. I also think we’ve all had coulda, shoulda, woulda situations ourselves. Maybe he wasn’t really thinking straight. I mean, he has a date meanwhile his friend is texting him all this stuff. We are basing his behavior off just one in person interaction.

What is also weird is when we chatted the day of about 5 hours before the date everything seemed normal. He even arrived early for the date and texted me when he was on the way, including that he drives a black truck. I really think he was trying to manage both and it just didn’t work out well.

Edited December 1, 2020 by kiwistwbry

[SumGuy]

23 hours ago, kiwistwbry said:

I’ve been really regretting my post on here, but not any longer thanks to you. I can’t thank you enough. 

No worries, the internet is not a fount of wisdom though...kind of the opposite.   You do get a good overview of what people who like to be on such forums think though

I think it has a lot to do with the addict part.   Recovering, even if 4 years, seems to not matter.  If he was checking  his watch and text constantly because his grandmother had inconsistent home care and he may need to leave to help her get in bed....would be a whole other story is my bet.  Not that one should ignore the recovering addict part, but it doesn't trigger in me an immediate negative judgment of someone don't know much about otherwise...except he is there for his friend and is a great hugger.

I wouldn't worry too much about him asking you out again after a how are you and your friend doing text.   I don't think you can live your life afraid of what some guy (unless you have reason to believe he is dangerous) may assume from an innocuous text (even if him being hopeful and reading more in to it is not unreasonable).   

You can even make it the was nice to meet you but not feeling the connection, good luck with your search type text (if that is where you are at) and also send wishes that you hope he and his friend are OK.

[SumGuy]

44 minutes ago, kiwistwbry said:

I agree. I also think we’ve all had coulda, shoulda, woulda situations ourselves. Maybe he wasn’t really thinking straight. I mean, he has a date meanwhile his friend is texting him all this stuff. We are basing his behavior off just one in person interaction.

What is also weird is when we chatted the day of about 5 hours before the date everything seemed normal. He even arrived early for the date and texted me when he was on the way, including that he drives a black truck. I really think he was trying to manage both and it just didn’t work out well.

Unfortunately, it may well be his friend got wind of the date and the timing is not coincidence.  Sadly, even if by coincidence this may be a not infrequent occurrence.  It's perfectly reasonable not to want to get into a relationship with someone with such responsibilities, you have some pretty big responsibilities of your own.

However, should he let his friends mental illness and addiction hold his life hostage, keep him form dating?  I'd say no.  The more responsibilities one has the tougher it can be to manage them all with zero overlap.  His situation in a way is not much different than a professional therapist, who has suicidal patients, a very hard road to navigate. 

Should he kick his friend to the curb?  I'd say a qualified no to that, at some point he may have to but it is honorable to try...especially since he is a recovered addict, clean several years, his words may actually get through to his friend.

[kiwistwbry]

40 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

Unfortunately, it may well be his friend got wind of the date and the timing is not coincidence.  Sadly, even if by coincidence this may be a not infrequent occurrence.  It's perfectly reasonable not to want to get into a relationship with someone with such responsibilities, you have some pretty big responsibilities of your own.

However, should he let his friends mental illness and addiction hold his life hostage, keep him form dating?  I'd say no.  The more responsibilities one has the tougher it can be to manage them all with zero overlap.  His situation in a way is not much different than a professional therapist, who has suicidal patients, a very hard road to navigate. 

Should he kick his friend to the curb?  I'd say a qualified no to that, at some point he may have to but it is honorable to try...especially since he is a recovered addict, clean several years, his words may actually get through to his friend.

“Unfortunately, it may well be his friend got wind of the date and the timing is not coincidence.” Can you please explain what this means exactly? I would like to understand.

And I agree. He told me he tried to see if other friends could stop by and check on this friend instead (probably because he was meeting me) and he said no one was willing. I assume it’s an inner circle of friends type thing.

Getting concerned myself I asked him if his friend has done this before and he said yes, especially around the holidays.

Edited December 1, 2020 by kiwistwbry

[SumGuy]

7 minutes ago, kiwistwbry said:

“Unfortunately, it may well be his friend got wind of the date and the timing is not coincidence.” Can you please explain what this means exactly? I would like to understand.

And I agree. He told me he tried to see if other friends could stop by and check on this friend instead (probably because he was meeting me) and he said no one was willing. I assume it’s an inner circle of friends type thing.

People in such psychological distress can be very needy and jealous even, they can feel threatened by those who are their support network having a life essentially.  In part, by having an emergency when their support person is trying to live is a way for them to test if the support person really cares.   

It's certainly messed up and not always even a conscious decision on the distressed person's part.  Mental illness, especially of the suicidal and depression variety is very hard on those around the person.  I lead with mental illness as for a lot of addicts, the addiction is more self medication for emotional mental issues than a cause, although it exacerbates things and creates even more problems.

At some point people do stop being there, the distressed person often does things that actively drive people away, it takes large reserves of inner strength and constant balance to continue to try to help such people in distress. 

Your date was a former addict so he is probably well positioned to understand more than most what is going on in his friend's head.  I will say in my view without some truly profession help and rehab, his friends chances are not good.  I'm sure your date knows this having recovered himself, he may just not want him to die thinking he was completely alone.  

I may be projecting, I was raised to believe "whatsoever you do for the least of your brothers and sisters, you do for me."   

Not to be a complete downer, but with professional help and rehab recovery is vey much possible.

Unfortunately on all this I speak from some experience (just FYI I'm not a recovered addict or addict...except maybe addicted to posting here  ).    That is why based on what little I know, I tend to have admiration for your date trying to be there for his friend.  They all likely went to school and grew up together, they were friends before the addiction. 

None of this is to say you should date him if you are not interested.  Just you asked what I meant and to understand more about this.

It's an older song, but it says a lot...(It's NIN but I actually prefer Jonny Cashes cover)

"Hurt"

I hurt myself today
To see if I still feel
I focus on the pain
The only thing that's real

The needle tears a hole
The old familiar sting
Try to kill it all away
But I remember everything

What have I become
My sweetest friend?
Everyone I know
Goes away in the end

And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt

I wear this crown of thorns
Upon my liar's chair
Full of broken thoughts
I cannot repair

Beneath the stains of time
The feelings disappear
You are someone else
I am still right here

....

If I could start again
A million miles away
I will keep myself
I would find a way

[kiwistwbry]

One thing worth mentioning as a general post with possibly some helpful info...as I just pieced them all together thinking about everything.

He told me he got up for work at 4:15 and his shift was from 6-2. Because of this he went to bed early those nights by 7:00-7:30. Often times while texting he would be dosing off and would mention it to me with a heads up in case he stopped texting.

Halfway through the date he was getting cold and put up his hoodie, while explaining to me why he was doing it. Just as he explained why he had to cut the date short.

Both with the texting and date he prolonged them while also saying he wished he could continue but he couldn’t and explained why.

On the date he told me the situation but then stayed with me for another 20-25 minutes talking about other stuff. He would do the same with texting.

So maybe, as terrible as it looks, he wasn’t actually trying to throw his friend under the bus by giving private info. It just seems like he prefers giving a heads up by explaining why, no matter the situation.

The qualities he looks for in a person listed on his profile is honesty and trustworthy, so maybe he thinks he’s providing the same thing in return with all the heads up and explanations.

Edited December 1, 2020 by kiwistwbry

[kiwistwbry]

5 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

People in such psychological distress can be very needy and jealous even, they can feel threatened by those who are their support network having a life essentially.  In part, by having an emergency when their support person is trying to live is a way for them to test if the support person really cares.   

It's certainly messed up and not always even a conscious decision on the distressed person's part.  Mental illness, especially of the suicidal and depression variety is very hard on those around the person.  I lead with mental illness as for a lot of addicts, the addiction is more self medication for emotional mental issues than a cause, although it exacerbates things and creates even more problems.

At some point people do stop being there, the distressed person often does things that actively drive people away, it takes large reserves of inner strength and constant balance to continue to try to help such people in distress. 

Your date was a former addict so he is probably well positioned to understand more than most what is going on in his friend's head.  I will say in my view without some truly profession help and rehab, his friends chances are not good.  I'm sure your date knows this having recovered himself, he may just not want him to die thinking he was completely alone.  

I may be projecting, I was raised to believe "whatsoever you do for the least of your brothers and sisters, you do for me."   

Not to be a complete downer, but with professional help and rehab recovery is vey much possible.

Unfortunately on all this I speak from some experience (just FYI I'm not a recovered addict or addict...except maybe addicted to posting here  ).    That is why based on what little I know, I tend to have admiration for your date trying to be there for his friend.  They all likely went to school and grew up together, they were friends before the addiction. 

None of this is to say you should date him if you are not interested.  Just you asked what I meant and to understand more about this.

It's an older song, but it says a lot...(It's NIN but I actually prefer Jonny Cashes cover)

"Hurt"

I hurt myself today
To see if I still feel
I focus on the pain
The only thing that's real

The needle tears a hole
The old familiar sting
Try to kill it all away
But I remember everything

What have I become
My sweetest friend?
Everyone I know
Goes away in the end

And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt

I wear this crown of thorns
Upon my liar's chair
Full of broken thoughts
I cannot repair

Beneath the stains of time
The feelings disappear
You are someone else
I am still right here

....

If I could start again
A million miles away
I will keep myself
I would find a way

I understand now. THANK YOU.

[Acacia98]

6 hours ago, Crazelnut said:

Ok, so let's stop calling it a "so-called emergency." Let's assume it was legit. There is still too much drama with this guy to warrant further pursuit. He's caught up with other addicts who are actively using. That risks his sobriety. He's caught up with a friend with serious mental health issues. That sucks up a lot of his time and energy.  And the mother of his kid is a junkie -- unreliable, selfish, bad co-parent. That impacts every aspect of his life. 

Do not reach out. Let it go.

@Crazelnut: these are good points.

@kiwistwbry, as I see it, the best case scenario is that he has a lot on his plate. He's overwhelmed. One date with you was a struggle because his mind and conscience were with his friend. His emotions were all over the place. This is not somebody who should be dating anybody right now. He needs time to deal with what's going on in his life without simultaneously having to worry about what impression he's making on the woman he's dating and how to fit her into his life. Heck, maybe he even came to that realization after the date.

So if you are planning to reach out to him, I'd say reach out to him as one concerned human being to another, not as a potential romantic interest. Just check that he and his friend are okay and leave it at that. If it turns out that things are not good, maybe you can even suggest a relevant hotline or local resources. And then let it be.

Keep in mind that there's always a possibility that he decided he wasn't in a position to date anyone or that you and he were not quite a good fit. So your reaching out to him may make him feel guilty and make him feel obligated to be nice or suggest meeting again or whatever. That makes the whole idea of reaching out tricky.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Acacia98

[kiwistwbry]

So I’m putting a lot of thought into this and haven’t decided either way yet...wouldn’t send it until this weekend, but I edited my text a little bit along with someone else’s input on here. Thoughts??

“Hey Eric! I know we simply met over coffee, just hoping you and your friend are okay :-) I also enjoyed our chats and would still be open to that ‘next time’ that was suggested. Hope all is well!”

Edited December 2, 2020 by kiwistwbry

[Versacehottie]

hmmm, i think you are doing a lot of mental gymnastics over something that is quite simple.  you provided the extra context about him being a former addict, and his friend having a suicidal moment etc.  Remove those elements and see him as the simple guy who was out on a date with you who left the date early for whatever reason, and he is still the guy who has not followed up with you for another date.  Ultimately, you want and need someone who is happily in a position to want to date you.  

Along the same lines about the mental gymnastics, if your intention is to reach out to him to make sure that he and his friend are ok, one human to another human, why the delay in doing so?  To me, it seems like a tactic to out-strategize because your real intentions are still romantic and dating ones.  I can imagine it would be hard to separate the two but let's call it what it really is.

I will have to go back and bold your post with part of the answer but you spoke of difficulties with dating (or something to that effect) and I think you are lowering your standards because you just want it to be easy & you have one slightly on the hook that you felt some chemistry with, while ignoring other major things.  This applies with or without the judgement on his past but on his current treatment of you and how little he gave and you are way too invested/overthinking it/desperate about it. Sorry, from outside looking at this, it's that way.

[kiwistwbry]

5 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

Along the same lines about the mental gymnastics, if your intention is to reach out to him to make sure that he and his friend are ok, one human to another human, why the delay in doing so?  To me, it seems like a tactic to out-strategize because your real intentions are still romantic and dating ones.

The delay is to give him space, and to see if he just happens to reach out first. I don’t want to come across as overbearing by texting too soon, considering the circumstances.

[Acacia98]

7 hours ago, kiwistwbry said:

The qualities he looks for in a person listed on his profile is honesty and trustworthy, so maybe he thinks he’s providing the same thing in return with all the heads up and explanations.

Ultimately, that doesn't really change anything, you know? You're still left with someone who prioritizes appearing trustworthy and honest to others (including relative strangers) over respecting his friends'/relatives' privacy. The damage is the same if you're the one whose privacy is violated in this way.

7 hours ago, SumGuy said:

People in such psychological distress can be very needy and jealous even, they can feel threatened by those who are their support network having a life essentially.  In part, by having an emergency when their support person is trying to live is a way for them to test if the support person really cares.   

 Interesting...

Edited December 2, 2020 by Acacia98

[Versacehottie]

6 minutes ago, kiwistwbry said:

The delay is to give him space, and to see if he just happens to reach out first. I don’t want to come across as overbearing by texting too soon, considering the circumstances.

Bingo, as I suspected.  So the overriding intention is still your romantic goal, not really to check and make sure he is ok.  Behind the scenes--regardless of what you are saying to him in a text--it is overbearing as you are planning much more than he is.  While I don't think he is the guy for you, and I rarely would suggest this, but why not be authentic with the purpose of that text and reach out sooner than later (backing up what the text actually says) and ask him out?  

There seems to be a lot of anxiety going on on your end and maybe you just need to get the answer from him about what his intentions are about you going forward. 

[Acacia98]

39 minutes ago, kiwistwbry said:

So I’m putting a lot of thought into this and haven’t decided either way yet...wouldn’t send it until this weekend, but I edited my text a little bit along with someone else’s input on here. Thoughts??

“Hey Eric! I know we simply met over coffee, just hoping you and your friend are okay :-) I also enjoyed our chats and would still be open to that ‘next time’ that was suggested. Hope all is well!”

I suggest that you leave out the second sentence. The idea that you're thinking of a potential date when he might be living through terrible pain comes across as insensitive.

[poppyfields]

8 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

Bingo, as I suspected.  So the overriding intention is still your romantic goal, not really to check and make sure he is ok. 

Spot on V!  It's disingenuous.  A "strategy."   And HE will see it that way as well.  

As said earlier, no one is this altruistic after one brief meet that they cut short and no contact since. 

I'm curious about him pulling up his hoodie over his head during the meet and explaining why? 

That's a weird one.  

Edited December 2, 2020 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

8 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

The idea that you're thinking of a potential date when he might be living through terrible pain comes across as insensitive.

Or the idea she's thinking of a potential date when he said he would contact her but has not.   Comes off as desperate and having little self-respect.

I would advise to not chase a man who has not kept his word in following up.

Edited December 2, 2020 by poppyfields

[SumGuy]

9 hours ago, kiwistwbry said:

The delay is to give him space, and to see if he just happens to reach out first. I don’t want to come across as overbearing by texting too soon, considering the circumstances.

Suspect either way you go it won't harm your chances with him.   Recall he is used to dealing with this suicidal friend, he deals with much more difficult situations on a daily basis.  If you sent a nice text the next day or next week, the "overbearing" or whateverness is unlikely to even register on his radar.   His explaining his actions makes me think he is non-judgmental in this regard.

[kiwistwbry]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

I’m curious about him pulling up his hoodie over his head during the meet and explaining why? 

That's a weird one.  

Your guess is as good as mine. But I’m going to be non judgmental and assume he did it with good intentions in mind.

Maybe he didn’t want to come across as rude for starters. Hence still showing up to the date despite his situation, giving me a hug, and telling me he was going to text me later.

Sounds like a guy who knows how to be a gentleman and is just overwhelmed with life. I can completely relate, minus the addiction.  

Maybe that’s why there seemed to be a connection between us and we talked about such personal things from the beginning. We felt comfortable with each other as single parents.

Edited December 2, 2020 by kiwistwbry

[poppyfields]

14 minutes ago, kiwistwbry said:

Your guess is as good as mine. But I’m going to be non judgmental and assume he did it with good intentions in mind.

Maybe he didn’t want to come across as rude for starters. Hence still showing up to the date despite his situation, giving me a hug, and telling me he was going to text me later.

Sounds like a guy who knows how to be a gentleman and is just overwhelmed with life. I can completely relate, minus the addiction.  

Maybe that’s why there seemed to be a connection between us and we talked about such personal things from the beginning. We felt comfortable with each other as single parents.

But you said he explained why, what was his explanation?  I'm talking about the hoodie.  I wasn't assuming bad intentions at all, it's just weird!  So curious what his explanation was.  You did say he explained.

I would suggest you get rid of "maybes" - maybe this, maybe that and he "sounds like" this or that as well. They're irrelevant.

Deal in facts.  The guy cut short your date and has not made contact since despite his assertion he would do so.

Period, end of.  All these "maybes" and "he sounds like" are just noise and preventing you from seeing what's right in front of you.  Guy is just not interested.

The End. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by poppyfields

[Calmandfocused]

I agree with Poppy. 
 

Op I get it, you really like this guy. Despite what we’re all saying to him you really really like him. I get it. 
 

But please do not send that text. It has the potential to make you feel rejected and worse about the situation. Don’t do that to yourself. 
 

His lack of communication is communicating a message to you loud and clear. You’d do yourself a massive justice if you could accept that. 
 

I don’t mean for this to sound unkind (sorry if it does) but It’s not up to you to enquire about his friends wellbeing. You were just a coffee date. If you’re honest with yourself you know that -  you’re using the situation as an excuse to contact someone who has indirectly rejected you. Why  would you want to twist the knife in your wound? As I said, don’t do this to yourself. 
 

BTW, experience tells me that people who go on and on about trust and honesty tend to have a big question mark above their head where trust and honesty are concerned. 
 

Finally, my concern is that you have a “accept anything as long as there is a connection” mentality aswel as a tendency to justify every nuance of behaviour (including bad behaviour). This is likely to attract the wrong types so make sure you’re going on future dates with your eyes wide open. 
 

Good luck 

[kiwistwbry]

46 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

But you said he explained why, what was his explanation?  I'm talking about the hoodie.  I wasn't assuming bad intentions at all, it's just weird!  So curious what his explanation was.  You did say he explained.

I would suggest you get rid of "maybes" - maybe this, maybe that and he "sounds like" this or that as well. They're irrelevant.

Deal in facts.  The guy cut short your date and has not made contact since despite his assertion he would do so.

Period, end of.  All these "maybes" and "he sounds like" are just noise and preventing you from seeing what's right in front of you.  Guy is just not interested.

The End. 

Deal in facts. I think I have been, have you?

The guy cut short the date because his friend said he was contemplating suicide.

Based on this we can assume ‘the why’ for not hearing from him despite his assertion to do so.

I have dealt with plenty of uninterested guys and let them be. Guys I actually liked. This situation is completely different and can’t be compared. 

Which is the reason for me reaching out anyway.

Sooo I think I have known what to text all along, but allowed my second guessing to get in the way.

And I will send it when the time is right.

Edited December 2, 2020 by kiwistwbry

[kiwistwbry]

53 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

But you said he explained why, what was his explanation?  I'm talking about the hoodie.  I wasn't assuming bad intentions at all, it's just weird!  So curious what his explanation was.  You did say he explained.

Because he was cold. Thought it was overly nice of him to feel the need to explain something so obvious. But what do I know.

Edited December 2, 2020 by kiwistwbry