trident_2020 Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 1 minute ago, boymommy said: It just doesn't explain why he is still willing to work so hard on the relationship, read relationship books with me, is open to couples counseling again, ect. If he really didn't want to marry me and didn't care then you'd think he'd just say no and and not really give a crap. He might be acting like he's interested in doing all those things but his responsiveness has changed quite a bit- so when you look at the big picture it isn't very promising. He might be stringing you along, keeping you on the hook by acting interested in the books and the relationship and all of that, but meanwhile he's thinking of making a break but isn't there yet. Don't be surprised if he drops the break-up hammer on you or simply does a slow fade. The ONLY thing you can do at this point is to back off and let him come to you. The more you push the more he runs.
poppyfields Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Poppy, fine put any label; on it you want, I suspect a big degree of projection here. This man is NOT your brother... I still do not agree, but it makes no difference whatsoever, he still does not want to get married to the OP. Yes I am projecting but I also know a lot about it. From reading, witnessing and experiencing. I already acknowledged it doesn't mean a hill of beans in the grand scheme. The end result is the same, he is never going to marry boymommy. Not even sure how we got to discussing HIM and his issues, whatever they may be. Awareness is good, you've got that boymommy. Now it's best to focus on your own issues, your own fears, which you admit, and determine why it is you choose to stay. Take steps to resolve so you can find a man who is capable and desirous of committing to you the way you need = marriage. Assuming that is truly what you want.. Edited December 2, 2020 by poppyfields
elaine567 Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, trident_2020 said: The ONLY thing you can do at this point is to back off and let him come to you. The more you push the more he runs. I think, atm BM has him corralled, but the worry she has, is that if she lets go of the rope and opens the gate, he gallops off into the distance.
Author boymommy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, elaine567 said: I think, atm BM has him corralled, but the worry she has, is that if she lets go of the rope and opens the gate, he gallops off into the distance. I'm not sure what you mean. I don't want to "corral" him as you put it. I was just trying to talk to man and find out where he was at but certainly didn't anticipate the last few weeks getting so intense between us. I do plan to back off and see what happens. Hey if he gets more distance or he breaks up with me then it wasn't mean to be. I decided a few weeks ago when I started being more open with him that if I lost him or I pushed him away as a result then it wasn't meant to be. That I was being myself and if I lose any man as a result of being vulnerable then it's probably not the right fit for me. So I don't really have much fear other then I hate break ups and the pain involved. I obviously don't want to lose the man, but regardless if we end up going our seperate ways I am sure it will be for the best. Edited December 2, 2020 by boymommy
Alvi Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 Do you want to have more kids? If you do, not waste your time on him. If not, you can wait.
Author boymommy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Alvi said: Do you want to have more kids? If you do, not waste your time on him. If not, you can wait. No and he had a vasectomy after his son was born 15 years ago. He doesn't want anymore, neither do I. Even if my age wasn't a factor I am happy with my two boys, plus I had very serious pregnancy complications with my younger son and my ex husband and I had determined we weren't going to have anymore kids at that point. I wouldn't risk it in the future either. It's a life threatening complication. Edited December 2, 2020 by boymommy
Author boymommy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) So he basically started ignoring my texts a few hrs ago. I think I may have said something that pissed him off..we were talking about his work stress and I gave him feedback but guess he took it the wrong way. He has done this before where he stops talking if he doesn't like something I says. But I am proud of myself..I asked him if he was upset at what I said (no response) so I just stopped texting and gave space. This would be an example of the communication issues I was originally posting about. Just going to give him space now. Surprisingly I am feeling okay about it. It's his issue not mine. Edited December 2, 2020 by boymommy 1
Acacia98 Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 5 hours ago, trident_2020 said: She should toss that value in the trash as far as this particular relationship is concerned because it isn't going to happen. As to the second part of your post, no marriage isn't meaningless, it means court and attorney fees when it all goes south. I'd be more inclined to think she should end the relationship and look for one that fits her values. Sacrificing something that is part of your core beliefs just so that you can remain in a relationship with someone you're incompatible with is the road to resentment and bitterness. Sure. That can be an outcome. But it sure isn't the only story or the full story.
Acacia98 Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 4 hours ago, elaine567 said: I believe he is like a lot of ageing men who have been burned by past relationships and a bad marriage and do not want to go there ever again, unless they meet someone really special and that is rare.. He was already reluctant to marry before the first marriage. Apparently the woman had to force him to do it (if I understood the story well).
trident_2020 Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Acacia98 said: Sacrificing something that is part of your core beliefs just so that you can remain in a relationship with someone you're incompatible with is the road to resentment and bitterness. Because her core values require what amounts to nothing more than a symbolic ring and a legal contract, she will probably lose this guy forever, whereas if she just accepted what is nothing more than a reasonable compromise and stay with the guy as committed partners, things could work out great for both of them. He's got the right idea, most marriages fail, even the ones that seem so great at the beginning- because the person changes or they didn't realize the person was "like that" until after they married them, or they grow apart or whatever. Subsequent marriages fail well over half the time. When will people realize it's just not worth going there- it's all risk (primarily for the monied partner), no gain and in this particular case she's probably going to lose everything. All because of questionable core values. Edited December 3, 2020 by trident_2020
Acacia98 Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, trident_2020 said: Because her core values require what amounts to nothing more than a symbolic ring and a legal contract, she will probably lose this guy forever, whereas if she just accepted what is nothing more than a reasonable compromise and stay with the guy as committed partners, things could work out great for both of them. He's got the right idea, most marriages fail, even the ones that seem so great at the beginning- because the person changes or they didn't realize the person was "like that" until after they married them, or they grow apart or whatever. Subsequent marriages fail well over half the time. When will people realize it's just not worth going there- it's all risk (primarily for the monied partner), no gain and in this particular case she's probably going to lose everything. All because of questionable core values. I see... you're one of those people who simply dismisses other people's beliefs when you don't share them. 1
trident_2020 Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 Not really. Marriage is a failed concept. The majority of marriages fail, the numbers are even worse with subsequent marriages and even a good number of marriages that don't end in divorce are "intact" only because divorce is too expensive, or inconvenient, or "for the children" or just plain fear of starting over with the devil you don't know. Other than perhaps some tax breaks and health insurance (which can often be had with domestic partnerships anyway) there is absolutely no tangible advantage of getting married and yet a boatload of risks and complexity should it need to be unraveled at a future date which happens much more often than not.. So I don't dismiss the core beliefs of others however I won't hesitate to point out the flaws and lack of logic and common sense in those I don't agree with.
Gaeta Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 1 hour ago, boymommy said: So he basically started ignoring my texts a few hrs ago. I think I may have said something that pissed him off..we were talking about his work stress and I gave him feedback but guess he took it the wrong way. He has done this before where he stops talking if he doesn't like something I says. But I am proud of myself..I asked him if he was upset at what I said (no response) so I just stopped texting and gave space. This would be an example of the communication issues I was originally posting about. Just going to give him space now. Surprisingly I am feeling okay about it. It's his issue not mine. Was your feedback a solution to his work issue? Men usually don't really want solutions to their problems they mostly want someone to listen and someone that will say 'yes it's so unfair, stressful,' etc. Your boyfriend does communicate with you, here he is sharing his work stress with you. Concerning the marriage he also has communicated with you several times, he doesn't want to marry now, maybe in 5 years, he'll see when both of you get there. That is an answer, that is communicating with you.
Author boymommy Posted December 3, 2020 Author Posted December 3, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, trident_2020 said: Not really. Marriage is a failed concept. The majority of marriages fail, the numbers are even worse with subsequent marriages and even a good number of marriages that don't end in divorce are "intact" only because divorce is too expensive, or inconvenient, or "for the children" or just plain fear of starting over with the devil you don't know. Other than perhaps some tax breaks and health insurance (which can often be had with domestic partnerships anyway) there is absolutely no tangible advantage of getting married and yet a boatload of risks and complexity should it need to be unraveled at a future date which happens much more often than not.. So I don't dismiss the core beliefs of others however I won't hesitate to point out the flaws and lack of logic and common sense in those I don't agree with. Yes, the reason for this is because people learn that divorce is a great strategy for conflict resolution...instead of you know "resolving problems with hard work." Instead of courts and a lawyer like you said. So I agree that marriages fail but it's because it requires effort and work and most people don't really want to do that..it's easier at the end of the day to get a divorce then have to work anything out. I'm not one to quickly throw in the towel to anything which is probably why I am still trying to make this relationship work! I didn't even want my divorce and I had pretty good reason to walk away from that too. I'm so darn loyal that I don't leave EVEN when I have pretty good reason to! Because I believe that problems should be worked out no matter WHAT. But in this case, marriage (or lack there of) is a dealbreaker. No real way of working that out if it doesn't happen. And I firmly believe I could find a man who holds my value system and shares my belief that marriage is forever and will want to work things out if times get tough. I just don't think at the end of the day its my current boyfriend..sadly to say. Edited December 3, 2020 by boymommy
Author boymommy Posted December 3, 2020 Author Posted December 3, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Gaeta said: Was your feedback a solution to his work issue? Men usually don't really want solutions to their problems they mostly want someone to listen and someone that will say 'yes it's so unfair, stressful,' etc. Your boyfriend does communicate with you, here he is sharing his work stress with you. Concerning the marriage he also has communicated with you several times, he doesn't want to marry now, maybe in 5 years, he'll see when both of you get there. That is an answer, that is communicating with you. I was listening to him and I'm always supportive..I do give him suggestions or offer him solutions and in this case it was sort of a light suggestion I guess not a solution. I was just being myself. I am pretty tired of trying to tailor myself to want MEN WANT. F that. It's time that men like me for who I am not me trying to be what they need or want. That's so stupid. So no I don't agree with you at all. As usual. If he wants a "yes girlfriend" well good luck with that! lol I speak my mind and don't take b.s. from men. Edited December 3, 2020 by boymommy
Gaeta Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 16 minutes ago, boymommy said: I speak my mind and don't take b.s. from men. You shared with us all the bs you put up with your ex, in the name of marriage. Your current boyfriend has been telling you for how many years now? that he doesn't want to marry, maybe one day, maybe in 5 years, .......and you're taking it again and again. So no, you saying you don't take bs from men really sounds off tone. Anyway, good luck with everything.
trident_2020 Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 2 hours ago, boymommy said: So I agree that marriages fail but it's because it requires effort and work and most people don't really want to do that..it's easier at the end of the day to get a divorce then have to work anything out. I'm not one to quickly throw in the towel to anything which is probably why I am still trying to make this relationship work! I didn't even want my divorce You might not be one to walk away- even though you were in an abusive relationship- and while I'm not questioning your decision to stay in an abusive marriage because you don't believe in divorce, as per your own situation your partner wanted out. You can't control what the other person will do and most often when a relationship or a marriage ends, one person wants it more than the other. And that's all it takes. 1
Wiseman2 Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 9 hours ago, boymommy said: So he basically started ignoring my texts a few hrs ago. I think I may have said something that pissed him off..we were talking about his work stress and I gave him feedback but guess he took it the wrong way. He has done this before where he stops talking if he doesn't like something I says. But I am proud of myself..I asked him if he was upset at what I said (no response) so I just stopped texting and gave space. This would be an example of the communication issues I was originally posting about. Just going to give him space now. Surprisingly I am feeling okay about it. It's his issue not mine. Unfortunately it seems like rather than making a decision based on not wanting to coast along in limbo, you are instead trying to sabotage the relationship. Make a decision. He doesn't want to marry and you do. It's an impasse. Picking flights or using passive-aggressive tactics to force his hand to end it is the epitome of poor communication.
elaine567 Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 I don't see how HIM refusing to answer her texts after her trying to help with a problem he had, is HER sabotaging the relationship. HE is the one who made a drama out of the interaction and it is HIM who is now stonewalling her.
Acacia98 Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 20 hours ago, trident_2020 said: Not really. Marriage is a failed concept. The majority of marriages fail, the numbers are even worse with subsequent marriages and even a good number of marriages that don't end in divorce are "intact" only because divorce is too expensive, or inconvenient, or "for the children" or just plain fear of starting over with the devil you don't know. Other than perhaps some tax breaks and health insurance (which can often be had with domestic partnerships anyway) there is absolutely no tangible advantage of getting married and yet a boatload of risks and complexity should it need to be unraveled at a future date which happens much more often than not.. So I don't dismiss the core beliefs of others however I won't hesitate to point out the flaws and lack of logic and common sense in those I don't agree with. You know, we can even use the same information to make the argument that romantic relationships are pointless (after all, most of them end in pain) and to delegitimize so many beliefs and preferences that we might as well conclude that it is pointless to be human. And yet none of that gets to the heart of why marriage matters to boymommy and why she would be unhappy in a relationship in which the eventuality of marriage was completely off the table.
poppyfields Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 21 hours ago, trident_2020 said: Not really. Marriage is a failed concept. The majority of marriages fail, the numbers are even worse with subsequent marriages and even a good number of marriages that don't end in divorce are "intact" only because divorce is too expensive, or inconvenient, or "for the children" or just plain fear of starting over with the devil you don't know. Other than perhaps some tax breaks and health insurance (which can often be had with domestic partnerships anyway) there is absolutely no tangible advantage of getting married and yet a boatload of risks and complexity should it need to be unraveled at a future date which happens much more often than not.. So I don't dismiss the core beliefs of others however I won't hesitate to point out the flaws and lack of logic and common sense in those I don't agree with. Thanks for this. I am getting married next year; makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.
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