Author boymommy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Posted December 2, 2020 1 hour ago, elaine567 said: I guess he doesn't want to get a webcam... Just like he doesn't want to get married. There is a big difference between a fear of commitment and just not wanting to commit. He has committed before, it is not as if he has never committed to anyone previously. He looked up webcams on his computer..unless I bring it up (again) and basically push the subject harder he either won't order one or it will literally take him FOREVER to actually get around to it on his own. He has committed before but never voluntarily. Both his ex gf and his ex wife forced him to make a decision to commit. They basically said you commit or we are leaving you. Since he doesn't want to be alone and has a fear of abandonment he chose to commit. His fear of being alone is greater then his fear of committment apparently.
Author boymommy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, poppyfields said: There is a great book I recommend you read entitled "He's Scared, She's Scared, the Hidden Fears That Sabotage Our Relationships." It discusses both active and passive commitment anxieties, how they work in conjunction with each other. Here me out on this: His anxieties are active. He is clearly avoiding. No refuting that. Yours are passive and hidden, meaning you are not aware you even have any fears/anxiety about it. You claim to want it more than anything! BUT, think about it. If you truly wanted commitment and marriage, what the HECK are you doing with HIM?!! He is not interested, unable and incapable of committing! Does that make sense to you? A woman who truly wanted commitment and marriage and had no hidden or unhidden anxiety about it woud have ditched him a long long time ago and looked for a man who IS capable of committing. Please consider this. Does this feel "safe" to you on some subconscious level? Introspect re hidden fears/anxieties you may be harboring that you are not even aware of. And read the book I suggested, Amazon.com. It helped me A LOT! lol ohhh I have the book..read it about 3 times. Currently reading it for the 4th time because it's been a few years since I last read it. Apparently I may have some passive fears myself. I mean look at who I married? Obviously the work I have done most recently has sort of brought out more of the feeling that I may be selling myself short on this relationship and got me out of the "safe" feeling of being with someone who is never going to commit. On some level being with someone who avoids commitment may feel safe to me because then they can't ever divorce me or abandon me or hurt me like my ex husband did. Or you know abuse me like he did. So in my mind I am perhaps protecting myself from potential failure or hurt down the road by staying in a dead end relationship. Very safe because then I don't get hurt. But then again..I don't open myself up to the possibly of the things I REALLY want and deserve in life either because I am too scared to go after what I want. That's most recently the realization I came to. Edited December 2, 2020 by boymommy 1
poppyfields Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, boymommy said: lol ohhh I have the book..read it about 3 times. Currently reading it for the 4th time because it's been a few years since I last read it. Apparently I may have some passive fears myself. I mean look at who I married? Obviously the work I have done most recently has sort of brought out more of the feeling that I may be selling myself short on this relationship and got me out of the "safe" feeling of being with someone who is never going to commit. On some level being with someone who avoids commitment may feel safe to me because then they can't ever divorce me or abandon me or hurt me like my ex husband did. Or you know abuse me like he did. So in my mind I am perhaps protecting myself from potential failure or hurt down the road by staying in a dead end relationship. Very safe because then I don't get hurt. But then again..I don't open myself up to the possibly of the things I REALLY want and deserve in life either because I am too scared to go after what I want. That's most recently the realization I came to. Self-awareness is the first step in resolving, and clearly you have plenty of that! Are you in therapy yourself? Apologies if this was previously discussed. Edited December 2, 2020 by poppyfields
Author boymommy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Posted December 2, 2020 Just now, poppyfields said: Self-awareness is the first step in resolving. Are you in therapy yourself? Apologies if this was previously discussed. Yes..4 years continual therapy (started before my seperation/divorce), as well as 3 years in 12 step programming for codependency. I worked all 12 steps and I now sponsor two people who are pretty far into their step work and have made very significant progress!
trident_2020 Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Acacia98 said: Why should she toss a value that matters to her in the trash just because someone else doesn't care about it? That's not how building healthy relationships works. And let's be honest: if the ring and piece of paper are really as meaningless as some folks like to say they are, then marrying when you don't believe in it should be easy. I mean it's just a ring and a piece of paper, it doesn't really mean anything, right? She should toss that value in the trash as far as this particular relationship is concerned because it isn't going to happen. As to the second part of your post, no marriage isn't meaningless, it means court and attorney fees when it all goes south.
elaine567 Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 On 11/27/2020 at 9:13 PM, boymommy said: He used to call every day we weren't together. Then it was 3 times a week. Then two. Then once. Then it would be every other week he'd call. Then nothing at all. It's like sort of a slow fade out of the phone calls. I questioned him and he had a mirad of excuses (limited phone plan, no web cam capability, ect) It's true he does not have unlimited call text or a web cam but he could get those things, he just doesn't. Or he says he will but no follow through He just doesn't want a webcam. He can't even be bothered to phone you...
poppyfields Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, trident_2020 said: She should toss that value in the trash as far as this particular relationship is concerned because it isn't going to happen. As to the second part of your post, no marriage isn't meaningless, it means court and attorney fees when it all goes south. First paragraph- agree. Second paragraph- IF it goes south. 1
Author boymommy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Posted December 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, elaine567 said: He just doesn't want a webcam. He can't even be bothered to phone you... From what I understand, getting a webcam would bring the relationship closer. Can't have that because not having a webcam puts me at arms length. He can get his distance/breathing room. Same with phone calls. Texting is safer. Phone calls are more intimate so thats why he stopped the phone calls. Would bring up closer/bring the relationship closer. Can't have that. 1
Allupinnit Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 23 minutes ago, trident_2020 said: She should toss that value in the trash as far as this particular relationship is concerned because it isn't going to happen. As to the second part of your post, no marriage isn't meaningless, it means court and attorney fees when it all goes south. I'm sorry this happened to you. 1
poppyfields Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, elaine567 said: He just doesn't want a webcam. He can't even be bothered to phone you... elaine, why do you refuse to acknowledge that some people do suffer from commitment anxiety and that boymommy has issues with respect to that? I mean why refute it? Awareness is good! And given everything boymommy has posted about him (and herself) it's pretty obvious that this isn't your run-of-the-mill guy who simply doesn't want to get married or buy a webcam, lol. And that boymommy has issues herself. Which she herself has admitted. I mean yes he doesn't want to get married but his reasons point to it being a deeper issue than just lack of desire. And there IS help for this fear. Tons of books and articles written by reputable counselors, therapists and medical professionals. Some people believe that all it takes is the "right" person. Well let me ask, do you believe that all it takes for someone suffering from claustrophobia is being in the "right" space? That miraculously their fear of enclosed space will disappear once they find that "perfect" space? No it would not, not without serious therapy. Commitmentphobia is no different. A fear and anxiery surrounding close committed relationships. It often causes the same symptoms as claustrophobia when faced with it happening. They can do it for a time when it's long distance (like here) which guarantees a certain distance. A safe distance. But as soon as marriage is discussed, like here, such person goes back and forth, can't commit to yes, can't commit to no, just like here. It doesn't matter though at the end of the day, he does not want marriage and it's not going to happen. But being aware of our partner's fears and anxiety is good, it allows us to make the right decision for us and protect ourselves. Edited December 2, 2020 by poppyfields
elaine567 Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 it just crossed my mind, could he have another woman? 3 minutes ago, poppyfields said: elaine, why do you refuse to acknowledge that some people do suffer from commitment anxiety I believe "commitment phobia" may be a real thing |I just do not believe this guy suffers from it.
Author boymommy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Posted December 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, elaine567 said: it just crossed my mind, could he have another woman? I believe "commitment phobia" may be a real thing |I just do not believe this guy suffers from it. I don't think so..given he'd have to go back on the site (and pay for it, which he wouldn't want to do) in order to meet anyone. Plus I see him all weekend, every weekend and he has his son most days during the week. So the few remaining days he has left he usually spends with his best friend. I could check up on him and ask his best friend? But I don't get a strong cheating vibe from him to be honest. What are your reasons you don't believe that?
Author boymommy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Posted December 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, poppyfields said: elaine, why do you refuse to acknowledge that some people do suffer from commitment anxiety and that boymommy has issues with respect to that? I mean why refute it? Awareness is good! And given everything boymommy has posted about him (and herself) it's pretty obvious that this isn't your run-of-the-mill guy who simply doesn't want to get married or buy a webcam, lol. And that boymommy has issues herself. Which she herself has admitted. I mean yes he doesn't want to get married but his reasons point to it being a deeper issue than just lack of desire. And there IS help for this fear. Tons of books and articles written by reputable counselors, therapists and medical professionals. Some people believe that all it takes is the "right" person. Well let me ask, do you believe that all it takes for someone suffering from claustrophobia is being in the "right" space? That miraculously their fear of enclosed space will disappear once they find that "perfect" space? No it would not, not without serious therapy. Commitmentphobia is no different. A fear and anxiery surrounding close committed relationships. It often causes the same symptoms as claustrophobia when faced with it happening. They can do it for a time when it's long distance (like here) which guarantees a certain distance. A safe distance. But as soon as marriage is discussed, like here, such person goes back and forth, can't commit to yes, can't commit to no, just like here. It doesn't matter though at the end of the day, he does not want marriage and it's not going to happen. But being aware of our partner's fears and anxiety is good, it allows us to make the right decision for us and protect ourselves. Well he said I was "the one" and the right person about a year 1/2 ago. That's what doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. So if he REALLY felt that way about me then why doesn't he want to get married. That doesn't make any sense. I called him out on that discrepancy and he sited my anxiety as a deterrent but I get anxious from the dynamic between us a lot of the time. Most recently I have tried being more secure no matter how he acts..kind of in an effort to prove to myself that I'm not the issue and that any reason he can use against me to avoid marriage is in his head. But I also think becoming more secure will be better for myself in general no matter what..so it's a win/win for me regardless!
poppyfields Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, boymommy said: What are your reasons you don't believe that? Same question. I've read so much about it, my brother suffers from it, men in my support group suffered from it, heck I've suffered from it (not nearly this severe) and after reading all your posts in their entirety, your boyfriend boymommy sounds worst case! I mean struggling to even say the word?? Can't get much worse than that. Edited December 2, 2020 by poppyfields
Author boymommy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Posted December 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, poppyfields said: Same question. I've read so much about it, my brother suffers from it, men in my support group suffered from it, heck I've suffered from it (not nearly this severe) and after reading all your posts in their entirety, your boyfriend boymommy sounds worst case! I mean struggling to even say the word?? Can't get much worse than that. Yeah I mean I think I knew it the first time I read the book. But admitting it meant that I had fears too and I may not have been ready to acknowledge that yet. A lot of people in my 12 step program suffer from it too and I told them to read that book. Its very common for people with both passive/active conflicts to find each other in a relationship. Other terms for it are codepedent/counterdependent, love addict/love avoidant, anxious attached/avoidant attached. Committed obsessed/committmentphobic, they all have the same traits, just different terms. As I am reading the book it's way more eye opening though because I can really see my relationship playing out on the pages. It's not a feel good self help book, it just slaps you in the face about what is happening. It's scary to read.
elaine567 Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 I believe he is like a lot of ageing men who have been burned by past relationships and a bad marriage and do not want to go there ever again, unless they meet someone really special and that is rare.. Here he has set up an arrangement that suits him well, he has his son and his friend during the week and he sees Boymommy at weekends. His life is nice and sorted, so why would he want to complicate that? As Boymommy has got increasingly desperate as regards marriage, he is shutting her down, denying her in public and "disappearing"... which is what many men are wont to do. They like the companionship, up to a point, and they like the regular sex, the rest they can do without. As Trident has intimated, the last thing he likely wants is more legal wrangling and another divorce down the line... He doesn't NEED to get married, so why would he?
Alvi Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 OP, if you want a marriage, why are you settling for so little with him? If you are happy with an occasional companionship, he is your guy. Some women would be more than OK with all that he can offer. But you are not, you want a lot more, a marriage. And he is not offering you anything except the indefinite maybe. I don't see where he has trouble communicating his feelings. He is very clear about NOT wanting a marriage. Maybe in 3 years. Maybe never. Who can tell what can happen in 3 years from now? As of now, he doesn't want get married. He is very clear about that. I've talked to two different dating coaches and they both told me practically the same thing. That if a guy doesn't ask you to move in with him within 6 month of dating, you are wasting your time with him. They both told me that if a guy doesn't ask you to marry him after a year of dating, that you are wasting your time with him. That it takes a man, any man, a year to make up his mind whether or not he sees you as a marriage material. OK, in my opinion 6 month is too short of a time to move in together, but I do agree that it takes about a year for a guy to figure things out about a future together. In my personal opinion, there should be a at least some visible progress after 3 years of dating, you should at least be living together, hopefully engaged. This is just my take. So according to dating coaches, you've wasted two extra years of your life with this guy, do you really want to waste three more years and see if he is finally ready to marry you?
Author boymommy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Posted December 2, 2020 27 minutes ago, elaine567 said: I believe he is like a lot of ageing men who have been burned by past relationships and a bad marriage and do not want to go there ever again, unless they meet someone really special and that is rare.. Here he has set up an arrangement that suits him well, he has his son and his friend during the week and he sees Boymommy at weekends. His life is nice and sorted, so why would he want to complicate that? As Boymommy has got increasingly desperate as regards marriage, he is shutting her down, denying her in public and "disappearing"... which is what many men are wont to do. They like the companionship, up to a point, and they like the regular sex, the rest they can do without. As Trident has intimated, the last thing he likely wants is more legal wrangling and another divorce down the line... He doesn't NEED to get married, so why would he? I'm not desperate...and what you are saying really does not hold any merit or make any sense because he asked me if I wanted to get married on our first date. Clearly he wanted to know. I was honest with him and told him YES if I met the right person. If he wanted to avoid "legal entanglement" then why pursue a serious relationship with someone who wanted to get married? Oh and on his dating profile he had under what he was looking for was "marriage" as one of the options. Obviously the man at least "thinks" he wants marriage (even if he can't say it or is actively not giving a yes or no. This is consistent with someone with active commitment conflicts.
elaine567 Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, boymommy said: he asked me if I wanted to get married on our first date Yes, but it didn't actually mean anything, did it? I guess it was one of those first date questions many men ask. It gives the impression of seriousness and wanting a real relationship, something many women fall hook line and sinker for... Or he did want to get married at first, but now he just doesn't... i think with his no answer/maybe response he is just protecting "the arrangement" as he knows if he said no, you would break up with him forthwith. 1
poppyfields Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, boymommy said: I'm not desperate...and what you are saying really does not hold any merit or make any sense because he asked me if I wanted to get married on our first date. Clearly he wanted to know. I was honest with him and told him YES if I met the right person. If he wanted to avoid "legal entanglement" then why pursue a serious relationship with someone who wanted to get married? Oh and on his dating profile he had under what he was looking for was "marriage" as one of the options. Obviously the man at least "thinks" he wants marriage (even if he can't say it or is actively not giving a yes or no. This is consistent with someone with active commitment conflicts. Bolded - Truth.
Author boymommy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Posted December 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, Alvi said: OP, if you want a marriage, why are you settling for so little with him? If you are happy with an occasional companionship, he is your guy. Some women would be more than OK with all that he can offer. But you are not, you want a lot more, a marriage. And he is not offering you anything except the indefinite maybe. I don't see where he has trouble communicating his feelings. He is very clear about NOT wanting a marriage. Maybe in 3 years. Maybe never. Who can tell what can happen in 3 years from now? As of now, he doesn't want get married. He is very clear about that. I've talked to two different dating coaches and they both told me practically the same thing. That if a guy doesn't ask you to move in with him within 6 month of dating, you are wasting your time with him. They both told me that if a guy doesn't ask you to marry him after a year of dating, that you are wasting your time with him. That it takes a man, any man, a year to make up his mind whether or not he sees you as a marriage material. OK, in my opinion 6 month is too short of a time to move in together, but I do agree that it takes about a year for a guy to figure things out about a future together. In my personal opinion, there should be a at least some visible progress after 3 years of dating, you should at least be living together, hopefully engaged. This is just my take. So according to dating coaches, you've wasted two extra years of your life with this guy, do you really want to waste three more years and see if he is finally ready to marry you? Well given different school districts and relocation issues and the LDR it adds a whole other layer to it. He's sort of able to use the fact that we are in different school districts as a way to delay committment...obviously I don't want to uproot my kids. He says if he tried to move before his son went to college his ex wife would try to take custody away from him. I don't know if this is true but I do know that in the state of Pennsylvania if you move more then 40 miles (we are like 43 miles) or far enough away that it significantly impairs the other parent from their custody then they could potentially take you to court. But really he is going to have that problem with anyone he dates who is far away. I feel like he shouldn't date anyone with kids or young kids or anyone who wants anything serious if he feels like he can't relocate. It's going to throw up a huge barrier in the relationship. I love the man and he has lots of good qualities. I didn't think of it as settling I think I just look at relationships more positively perhaps. Like I capitalize on the good and try to figure out how to remedy the bad. Bad I have no idea where to go from here. Unless I am just willing to take a chance of staying with him for a few more years in the chance he'll relocate and want to marry.
elaine567 Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 Poppy, fine put any label; on it you want, I suspect a big degree of projection here. This man is NOT your brother... I still do not agree, but it makes no difference whatsoever, he still does not want to get married to the OP. BM, he is doing exactly what many MM do. In that case the bone of contention is leaving the wife. He hums and haws, he cannot give a straight answer, he brings up excuse after excuse, he kicks the can down the road... all knowing full well he is NOT going to leave his wife, but he wants to keep the OW on board at the same time... She sticks around waiting... sometimes for literally years, until it becomes obvious to her, he is never going to leave... At that point she either decides to accept the status quo or she walks away... Another three years and you are 40...
Alvi Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, boymommy said: I love the man and he has lots of good qualities. I didn't think of it as settling I think I just look at relationships more positively perhaps. Like I capitalize on the good and try to figure out how to remedy the bad. Bad I have no idea where to go from here. Unless I am just willing to take a chance of staying with him for a few more years in the chance he'll relocate and want to marry. There is no right or wrong answer here. Do whatever feels right for you. Nobody can predict the future or can tell you the outcome. Do you want to have more kids? If you do, perhaps you should find someone else as you are not getting any younger. If not, I mean if the positives outweigh the negatives, perhaps you can wait few more years. Just remember, it's very hard, if not impossible, to find someone after 40 for a good relationship/marriage. Me being almost 43 can attest to that. Before I turned 40, I could find tons of guys for the relationship, no problem, but after 40 my mailbox is completely empty. Not a single guy even looks my way. Not just me, most of my single girlfriends after 40 feel the same. Take that into a consideration before making any decisions. He may not want to marry you after 3 or 5 or 10 years down the road. Edited December 2, 2020 by Alvi
Author boymommy Posted December 2, 2020 Author Posted December 2, 2020 21 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Yes, but it didn't actually mean anything, did it? I guess it was one of those first date questions many men ask. It gives the impression of seriousness and wanting a real relationship, something many women fall hook line and sinker for... Or he did want to get married at first, but now he just doesn't... i think with his no answer/maybe response he is just protecting "the arrangement" as he knows if he said no, you would break up with him forthwith. Fair point. I mean I have an open mind. I suspect it's committment issues, but he could have easily wanted to get married and then possibly figured out he just didn't want to marry me, who knows? It just doesn't explain why he is still willing to work so hard on the relationship, read relationship books with me, is open to couples counseling again, ect. If he really didn't want to marry me and didn't care then you'd think he'd just say no and and not really give a crap.
trident_2020 Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 37 minutes ago, boymommy said: I'm not desperate...and what you are saying really does not hold any merit or make any sense because he asked me if I wanted to get married on our first date. Clearly he wanted to know That doesn't mean it's what HE wanted. From your posts it sounds like you've been pushing for marriage and that will come across as clingy/needy/insecure at the very least and desperate at the worst. It's very offputting and it would do you good to realize that your actions in this regard are probably what has caused him to be much less responsive as of late.
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