This is the weirdest dating experience I ever had in my life

[salparadise]

26 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

If I invited him, I would pay.

And exactly how many times has that happened? Uh huh, that's what I thought. The who invited whom loophole is just an excuse employed by those who never do the asking. When you meet someone for the first time, you're both there for exactly the same reason... to size the other up and see if you're interested. But women like to think they're automatically the desirable half, and that he's one of many casting his lot so she can decide. This is a decidedly traditionalist perspective.

Instead of who invited whom, perhaps we should default to whomever weighs the most, is taller, or has more hair, eh? Y'all crack me up with such mental gymnastics... bottom line is traditionalists love to be treated like princesses, until payday rolls around. They they advocate for gender equality. And that lasts until everyone arrives at the watering hole for drinks.

46 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

To suggest that only educated progressive women think like you is way off the mark as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure, in fact I know many uneducated women for whom the word "progressive" isn't even part of their vocabulary who think like you and would offer to pay when a man invites them out on first date. 

Okay, I'm not saying this means every single one, without exception. I'm sure there are a couple on both sides of the fence, perhaps the one you're referring to and one other, but generally speaking I believe it holds up. A progressive woman for whom the word progressive is not in their vocabulary? Bzzzzt. Progressive concepts are acquired, intentional, and post conventional, not inherent. A quick glance at where the majority of each resides should be convincing evidence of this.

[poppyfields]

Thanks sal.  But would prefer to not debate this.  You have your mindset, I have mine.  No right or wrong here imo.  Whatever works.  

I am happily engaged to a man who shares my mindset, that is all that matters.  To me.  

He invited me out and paid for the first couple of dates (after first meet where we clicked immediately). 

I did offer on second, he declined telling me it was his treat, his pleasure to treat.  I have had other men say same thing when I've offered.  

I recall one man becoming quite insulted when I offered!

Anyway, back to my fiance, I invited him for third at mine, paid for and made dinner. 

After that it became balanced, with us both suggesting we go out, and taking turns paying. 

Whatever works. 

[salparadise]

@poppyfields

I was going to edit that last post to soften the tone after having read it... but the three second editing window is closed, so I'll just say that I do understand your perspective, I just don't agree with it. It's not a matter of right or wrong, just different strokes for different folks and I lean way to the progressive side. I like smart, competent, fully functional women... use of power tools is optional.

[SumGuy]

Just now, salparadise said:

@poppyfields

I was going to edit that last post to soften the tone after having read it... but the three second editing window is closed, so I'll just say that I do understand your perspective, I just don't agree with it. It's not a matter of right or wrong, just different strokes for different folks and I lean way to the progressive side. I like smart, competent, fully functional women... use of power tools is optional.

How is use of power tools optional?!

I will say those I've dated, even if they clearly are letting me pick up the check, never seemed to have entitlement mentality.  Yes those with an entitlement mentality let you pick up the check, those who let you pick up the check don't necessarily have an entitlement mentality.  The all dogs are mammals, but not all mammals are dogs logic.

Then again, to the extent the check ever came up it was simply given undue creedance to societal expectations we've both been told exist.  Once we realize we think it is all a bunch of BS (and I'm not the kind of guy who is going to care if she pays or expect anything if she doesn't), and picking up the check etiquette is more about who invites, etc. the same you would apply to a friend, etc. we can laugh about it.  It is really a complete non-issue in my dating life.  It's not like go on dates (before we are LTR) that stretch the bank account.

[poppyfields]

15 minutes ago, salparadise said:

 

I like smart, competent, fully functional women... 

Thank you sal, but when you make comments like the above, it suggests that I, and women like me of whom there are many, are not smart or fully functional. 

It's potentially quite insulting although I'm not.  I know who I am and proud of my ability to be flexible and open minded. 

And progressive about many things, barring when I was young (early 20s) when admittedly I was quite entitled!

I outgrew that and my relationships have been balanced, an equal give and take.  Reciprocal.  Not just with respect to who pays. 

When I wrote "no right or wrong" I meant just what you said - different strokes, to each their own.

Edited November 25, 2020 by poppyfields

[IntBrowser]

9 hours ago, Mo_Do said:

Then you arent telling us the truth, sounds like she rejected you on the 1st date and you then agreed to be friends, so she went with it.  Now you are questioning why.

It felt like a rejection the way she rushed me off the phone once I arrived home but then sent me a text the next day asking me how I slept the previous night

 

Most rejections involve her not responding to texts or calls or saying she has a busy work schedule.    Or my favorite of all time.............."taking care of my 90 year grandmother"

[SumGuy]

21 hours ago, IntBrowser said:

....Or my favorite of all time.............."taking care of my 90 year grandmother"

Unless she doesn't have a 90 year old grandmother or doesn't take care of her that is a very legitimate reason.  I suspect you have never raised kids or taken care of an elderly parent, it is extremely time consuming.  And for elderly parents etc., can be emotional and physically draining as well if they have physical disabilities or suffering cognitive decline.  Been there on both kids and parents and done it.    

Hopefully if you think on it, like if you need to help them get up, go to the bathroom, clothe themselves, feed themselves, help with medications, deal with them not remembering, or getting agitated, on and on, you could understand...put yourself in her shoes...and change your outlook.  Being able to see beyond yourself, to recognize others have struggles to, will go a long way in you being able to date effectively.

If what she is saying is true, the implication you look askance at it as an illegitimate reason speaks volumes.  

[dangerous]

On 11/24/2020 at 4:49 AM, IntBrowser said:

So i decided to spend $200 tonight on 4 different dating memberships to see what can happen before the year is over 

Good luck with that, I'd say you'd have been better off saving your money until Covid dies down. Dating is SOOOO difficult right now with most people just not ready for dating. You will get way more time wasters than normal for so many reasons 

[Miss Spider]

Easier for me though because most men are desperate af rn 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[ThereSheGoes]

I am grateful to the OP for his honesty, and I do hope that you continue to be honest about how you are feeling. But could it be that she genuinely wasn't bullsh*tting you, and after your second date, just made an ultimate decision about you two? Could it just be as simple as that, with no malice involved?

Can someone simply decide, after spending enough time with you, texting, conversing, etc.,  that they are just not in to you in that way?

[ThereSheGoes]

On 11/24/2020 at 12:06 PM, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

*** I am speaking , as a woman, who has offered to pick up the check for guys I knew really liked me***

So as weird as it may seem, it does happen. And it does happen for this reason. I felt really bad because I  wanted their company,  but I had 0 romantic interest.  I thought paying for them to be there would somehow compensate for this and give them a reason to go. Also, just doing a nice thing. For what it is worth, they did not take me up on the offer and paid anyway but I did offer

 

I honestly do this quite often. I just want to get out, they've been bugging me about going out, I want the company, and so I suggest a place and time, and I pay for the evening. But they usually don't do the 'No, I'll pay' move. Lol.

[IntBrowser]

On 11/26/2020 at 2:28 PM, dangerous said:

Good luck with that, I'd say you'd have been better off saving your money until Covid dies down. Dating is SOOOO difficult right now with most people just not ready for dating. You will get way more time wasters than normal for so many reasons 

Im not going to stop living my life and get depressed from being in all winter.   Either I will be at someone's house or she will be at mine

[IntBrowser]

On 11/26/2020 at 1:12 PM, SumGuy said:

Unless she doesn't have a 90 year old grandmother or doesn't take care of her that is a very legitimate reason.  I suspect you have never raised kids or taken care of an elderly parent, it is extremely time consuming.  And for elderly parents etc., can be emotional and physically draining as well if they have physical disabilities or suffering cognitive decline.  Been there on both kids and parents and done it.    

Hopefully if you think on it, like if you need to help them get up, go to the bathroom, clothe themselves, feed themselves, help with medications, deal with them not remembering, or getting agitated, on and on, you could understand...put yourself in her shoes...and change your outlook.  Being able to see beyond yourself, to recognize others have struggles to, will go a long way in you being able to date effectively.

If what she is saying is true, the implication you look askance at it as an illegitimate reason speaks volumes.  

I got her to admit it was a lie by sending her a lie by suggesting she come to my place for some midnight fun.   I knew it was a lie anyway I just wanted to see how long she was going to keep the lie alive.

[IntBrowser]

On 11/26/2020 at 8:45 PM, ThereSheGoes said:

I am grateful to the OP for his honesty, and I do hope that you continue to be honest about how you are feeling. But could it be that she genuinely wasn't bullsh*tting you, and after your second date, just made an ultimate decision about you two? Could it just be as simple as that, with no malice involved?

Can someone simply decide, after spending enough time with you, texting, conversing, etc.,  that they are just not in to you in that way?

The 2008 me would have left a nasty message on her voicemail for wasting my time.     I dont know where she lives so why not just block me and be done with it?    All this agreeing to go out with me on a work night which made me think I improved my dating skills and turned out not to be the case.   I was really feeling good about myself this time last week when I had a date set for a work night.      I have never felt so stupid in my entire life.    How could any guy not think a woman had romantic interest if she agreed to see him 5 days after the 1st date and pay for it?

[Miss Spider]

Your confusion and frustration is understandable. I think she thought she could escape that by offering to pay. But that is over now.  I know it’s hard but please don’t take this rejection so personally. The fact that this one person was not a match for you does not mean that you haven’t made improvements to your dating skills. I think there is a lot of evidence in your post that you do have a ways to go in terms of improving that area,  though. 

[Acacia98]

On 11/25/2020 at 7:29 PM, salparadise said:

And exactly how many times has that happened? Uh huh, that's what I thought. The who invited whom loophole is just an excuse employed by those who never do the asking. When you meet someone for the first time, you're both there for exactly the same reason... to size the other up and see if you're interested. But women like to think they're automatically the desirable half, and that he's one of many casting his lot so she can decide. This is a decidedly traditionalist perspective.

It's generally my preference to pay for myself. But some guys really do feel insulted when you don't let them pay the first time. It's like you're emasculating them (from their perspective). Then there's the other lot that think if they buy you something (in one noteworthy case, the guy bought me a coffee), you belong to them. It can be very confusing navigating the "who pays" issue (for men as well as women).

1 hour ago, IntBrowser said:

I got her to admit it was a lie by sending her a lie by suggesting she come to my place for some midnight fun.   I knew it was a lie anyway I just wanted to see how long she was going to keep the lie alive.

Man, you've got too much vindictiveness and I-have-to-prove-she's-wrong-itis in you. The ideal is to get to the point where, if a woman rejects you or does something you find problematic, you tell yourself you're simply not compatible and move on.

[Acacia98]

1 hour ago, IntBrowser said:

I have never felt so stupid in my entire life. How could any guy not think a woman had romantic interest if she agreed to see him 5 days after the 1st date and pay for it?

I hope you're just being melodramatic because that is hardly a stupid thing to do. It's just life. We've all thought someone was interested in us (because they've acted like they were) then they've gone and dumped us or rejected us. It doesn't make us stupid. 

[SumGuy]

9 hours ago, IntBrowser said:

I got her to admit it was a lie by sending her a lie by suggesting she come to my place for some midnight fun.   I knew it was a lie anyway I just wanted to see how long she was going to keep the lie alive.

I don't understand this.  I am not sure how asking her to come by for midnight fun gets to anything.  If anything, it can easily turn a woman off and kill initial attraction if she is not at that level with you yet.   So many reasons she would say yes or no that have nothing to do with taking care of a 90 year old grandma.   

I kind of wonder how you know such personal information is a lie if you don't know her or her family, without a bit of stalking.   I would be very careful on letting your feelings substitute for verifiable facts.

Let's say it was a lie or stretch or excuse, like saying she had to wash hair that night, to get out of seeing you...to avoid confrontation.  People do that all the time in all sorts of situations.  Some more justified than others.   

Regardless, it is foolish to get caught up in it being a lie and testing or calling the other person out.  If it is not a lie you look like a complete d**che bag that will almost certainly kill any attraction, if it is a lie that means they are not into you and you "setting traps/tests" or "calling them out" only justifies them lying to you to avoid toxic confrontation, it isn't going to get them to like you...and frankly it will give you a bad reputation.   Avoid seeking validation in this manner, it is generally considered unattractive at best.

[IntBrowser]

5 hours ago, SumGuy said:

I don't understand this.  I am not sure how asking her to come by for midnight fun gets to anything.  If anything, it can easily turn a woman off and kill initial attraction if she is not at that level with you yet.   So many reasons she would say yes or no that have nothing to do with taking care of a 90 year old grandma.   

I kind of wonder how you know such personal information is a lie if you don't know her or her family, without a bit of stalking.   I would be very careful on letting your feelings substitute for verifiable facts.

Let's say it was a lie or stretch or excuse, like saying she had to wash hair that night, to get out of seeing you...to avoid confrontation.  People do that all the time in all sorts of situations.  Some more justified than others.   

Regardless, it is foolish to get caught up in it being a lie and testing or calling the other person out.  If it is not a lie you look like a complete d**che bag that will almost certainly kill any attraction, if it is a lie that means they are not into you and you "setting traps/tests" or "calling them out" only justifies them lying to you to avoid toxic confrontation, it isn't going to get them to like you...and frankly it will give you a bad reputation.   Avoid seeking validation in this manner, it is generally considered unattractive at best.

But her being turned off it made the truth come out that she was not taking care of a sick grandmom and that it was a lie to avoid seeing me again

[Miss Spider]

Maybe she was just lying about lying to p*ss you off because she was turned off? It doesn’t really matter. It’s better to not ponder on the weird things people do. It’s fruitless. You will most likely run into a lot of strange people when you are dating. Keep your eyes on the prize. 

[IntBrowser]

15 hours ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Your confusion and frustration is understandable. I think she thought she could escape that by offering to pay. But that is over now.  I know it’s hard but please don’t take this rejection so personally. The fact that this one person was not a match for you does not mean that you haven’t made improvements to your dating skills. I think there is a lot of evidence in your post that you do have a ways to go in terms of improving that area,  though. 

We were not supposed to go out again which is why Im frustrated.    She said she saw a lot of gray hair so I made sure I uploaded a pic of me with my gray hair.  You can see the gray in my main photo but its clear on the 2nd pic.      So that is one adjustment i made since the last date.     And I wont be talking for 3 hours on the phone before meeting anymore.  I didnt see a problem with that because I thought it met we had chemistry and the convo was flowing nicely.    I also thought that the purpose of the phone was to determine if u wanted to meet face to face based on personality.     So now the 1st convo will only be 15 mins or 20.   And save all the talking for the date

[IntBrowser]

4 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Maybe she was just lying about lying to p*ss you off because she was turned off? It doesn’t really matter. It’s better to not ponder on the weird things people do. It’s fruitless. You will most likely run into a lot of strange people when you are dating. Keep your eyes on the prize. 

I am old enough to know now that these are the top excuses that people use if they dont want to go out because its hard to question and a convenient way out

 

Family

Health

Job

[IntBrowser]

14 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

I hope you're just being melodramatic because that is hardly a stupid thing to do. It's just life. We've all thought someone was interested in us (because they've acted like they were) then they've gone and dumped us or rejected us. It doesn't make us stupid. 

I was bragging to one of my lady friends after she agreed to see me again so soon and pay for the date and was saying........."She thinks im hot stuff"  lol    I was feeling myself and was dead wrong

[Miss Spider]

52 minutes ago, IntBrowser said:

We were not supposed to go out again which is why Im frustrated.    She said she saw a lot of gray hair so I made sure I uploaded a pic of me with my gray hair.  You can see the gray in my main photo but its clear on the 2nd pic.      So that is one adjustment i made since the last date.     And I wont be talking for 3 hours on the phone before meeting anymore.  I didnt see a problem with that because I thought it met we had chemistry and the convo was flowing nicely.    I also thought that the purpose of the phone was to determine if u wanted to meet face to face based on personality.     So now the 1st convo will only be 15 mins or 20.   And save all the talking for the date

 

48 minutes ago, IntBrowser said:

I was bragging to one of my lady friends after she agreed to see me again so soon and pay for the date and was saying........."She thinks im hot stuff"  lol    I was feeling myself and was dead wrong

All of this sort of misses the point. Do you really think that changing a profile pic to one with a few more gray hairs is the type of improvement that’s going to make a significant difference. Please do not take this the wrong way. I mean this constructively as possible. But the personality that is emanated in your posts is the type that I see a lot with people that are struggling with dating. I think you would benefit from some type of counseling or if you’re not willing to do that, even self-help( not Corey Wayne type stuff) Just doing an overhaul in your perspective and self. If you have no intention to do that, completely understandable. But then,  also completely understandable that you will continue to struggle with dating. And you can spend all the money on dating apps and sleep with all the  people that you feel are way beneath you that you want, but I’d really don’t think that is going reach any satisfactory conclusion for you.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[ThereSheGoes]

I agree with Shortskirtslonglashes. It sounds like you need to do some work on yourself. It doesn't sound like it's the other person, it sounds like it's you. And purposely limiting a phone conversation sounds ridiculous. If you like someone, you like someone. If you are finding it hard to converse in person, then you two just don't match.

You seem like you are obsessively thinking about this.