Flirty Messages

[blocker]

Hi,

I will start by saying I have been with my boyfriend (m/30) for about nine months already. We have had some communication issues, and most of the issues are on my behalf, which I am working on. He was looking for me to take steps to show greater commitment (giving him a key so that he can come and go from my house, or moving in to my own house.) I have never lived with a significant other and find myself working at a different pace.

Those issues aside, the other day I noticed a name in his text inbox. A few days later when he was scrolling the name was gone. I asked him about it and he awkwardly used the excuse he accidently archived it. Some lies later, the truth later came out that he was texting this girl from work and didn't want added pressure on our relationship when we were working on things. He then added that this girl is his friend and he talks to her a lot. He let me read the messages and they were flirtatious on both ends. It made me feel uncomfortable. He is in quarantine and she offered to get him groceries, and drop off special drinks for him. They sent messages all throughout the day. I asked him questions to gauge his level of interest in her. It seems that he is picking up on things she does as a friend, that I do not do with the same level of excitement. He said maybe if we weren't together he would see her differently than just a friend. But that he does love me and wants to work on us.

Moving forward, he said that he would mention me in conversations, and pull back to be a less interesting person so that she hopefully engages with him less. He doesn't want to come straight out and say that he feels their conversation has been slightly inappropriate because he says that she could just be friendly, as well as he is on probation at work and doesn't want the drama to get in the way of landing him a job. However, Every time his phone vibrates, I worry and I wonder who it is, and what is being said. I know trust needs to be rebuilt.  I feel awkward asking him to show me the messages, and I think about this all of the time.

What should I do? Is there anymore he could do? Are we responding to this situation in the best way? He goes back to work next week, and he has been staying at my place the last 3 days where It has felt better to sort of monitor or see what is going on, alongside working on building more positivity between us.

[Wiseman2]

25 minutes ago, blocker said:

I have been with my boyfriend (m/30) for about nine months already.

He was looking for me to take steps to show greater commitment (giving him a key so that he can come and go from my house, or moving in to my own house.)

Some lies later. He then added that this girl is his friend and he talks to her a lot.

He said maybe if we weren't together he would see her differently than just a friend.

Sorry to hear this. Take back your keys.  Take back the keys to your heart as well .

You're not a bed and breakfast for liars, cheaters and guys who who openly admit they would rather be with others..

After dating only 36 weeks, talks about moving into your house is a huge red flag.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Wiseman2

[Miss Spider]

In my opinion, your bf cheated on you. He contact with another person he knew was inappropriate and tried to hide it. How you choose to handle it is entirely up to you and what you can tolerate. 
 

The flirty messages alone would be a problem for me.  I think it inappropriate behavior for an attached person. The lying to cover it up is another issue. I wouldn’t be able to trust him. I would have to break up. 

[blocker]

Yeah SOME of messages were border line flirty. He was overly friendly. This girl knows he is in a relationship but I feel the amount of texting is a lot. Her offers to help him out also made me feel uncomfortable. 

Part of the reason he was texting was I guess because he was looking elsewhere to fill in gaps that I was not. Our relationship has been struggling a bit, but I have been working towards making changes myself to be better for him. I feel partly at fault.

I understand that it would be a problem for some, and it honestly really hurt me. Trust is now going to be an issue for a bit. I am just wondering what he should be doing to help me through this. He said that he still wants her as a friend, and doesn't want to just ignore her. So if he continues to talk to her, is it wrong for me to ask to see messages? 

[smackie9]

Ding Ding! He likes this girl and is having at least an emotional affair.....that's cheating. he has no remorse or see it as wrong. He worries about offending her...that's a big red flag. And he blames her for this? He has every bit a part in this. They are mackin on each other.

This is a relationship ender IMO. This girl is on the front burner as he slowly put you on the back one.

Edited November 23, 2020 by smackie9

[blocker]

I understand his actions were awful. He missed opportunities to mention me, where he could have. As well as, he shouldn't be engaging with people in this way.

 

Moving forward though, what would one expect to see that this is not continuing? 

[Wiseman2]

35 minutes ago, blocker said:

He was looking for me to take steps to show greater commitment (giving him a key so that he can come and go from my house, or moving in to my own house.)

This doesn't strike you as manipulative and hypocritical? What good would looking through his phone do? He already knows to cover his tracks.

[smackie9]

Everyone here knows that this is going to continue, he told you so. Now that you are going to be eyeballing his phone, he will probably get a burner phone, or delete messages.

[Miss Spider]

5 minutes ago, blocker said:

I understand his actions were awful. He missed opportunities to mention me, where he could have. As well as, he shouldn't be engaging with people in this way.

 

Moving forward though, what would one expect to see that this is not continuing? 

What makes you think that it won’t continue? It’s obviously what he wants to do and he sees no problem in doing it. I suspect he will just try to get better at covering it up

[blocker]

I feel that the text messages were not like "I can't wait to see you" type messages. He just chatted with her all day and there was some messages that seem flirty as they teased each other about grammar being an area for improvement. She offered to do things ie. get groceries, that i think were not her place. 

So i don't know if it is exactly that bad

[Miss Spider]

Why is he doing that with another woman though anyway? Why is he spending all this time and emotional energy on another woman that should be yours? It’s inappropriate. You know it’s inappropriate, that’s why you didn’t like it. Stop trying to make justifications for it 

[ExpatInItaly]

44 minutes ago, blocker said:

Moving forward, he said that he would mention me in conversations, and pull back to be a less interesting person so that she hopefully engages with him less. He

WAT. 

NOPE. 

This guy is a clown, OP. The correct response would have been to acknowledge that this is inappropriate and that he will disengage of his own volition - not that he will just have to dial down the charm and hope she finds him less enchanting. Seriously, could his head be any further up his own backside? He likes her and he is being manipulative and disrespectful to you. 

But hey, know what would be interesting? Letting the door hit his sorry butt on his way out of my life. 

[blocker]

Quote

10 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

WAT. 

NOPE. 

This guy is a clown, OP. The correct response would have been to acknowledge that this is inappropriate and that he will disengage of his own volition - not that he will just have to dial down the charm and hope she finds him less enchanting. Seriously, could his head be any further up his own backside? He likes her and he is being manipulative and disrespectful to you. 

But hey, know what would be interesting? Letting the door hit his sorry butt on his way out of my life. 

So i like this. His issues might go deeper than this. He has always felt that females engage with him on a deeper level, whereas guys just don't seem to engage with him in the same way. He has said that girl - friends always make a bit more of an effort. He lives in this city, where he only has me. So his worry is, that he feels this is a good friendship, or the potential for this friendship. He doesn't want to randomly bring up the fact that some parts of the conversation have been borderline flirty. The reason for this, he is worried about what it will do to their work culture. He is trying to land a job at this place, and doesn't want this awkward comment to cause waves or awkwardness. The messages were also not OUT THERE flirty. They were very very friend ie- the offers to drop things off, commenting on bad his grammar was etc.

So are you saying, the move should have been for her to disengage with her in full? How does that work with his work environment and being on the same work team?

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by blocker

[ExpatInItaly]

He can absolutely disengage from the personal messages and non-work-related communication, yes. He's feeding you all kinds of BS excuses so that he can keep her in his life. 

I'm sorry OP, but this guy is playing you for a fool.

This isn't going to end well for you if you decide to continue dating this knob. 

[blocker]

1 minute ago, ExpatInItaly said:

He can absolutely disengage from the personal messages and non-work-related communication, yes. He's feeding you all kinds of BS excuses so that he can keep her in his life. 

I'm sorry OP, but this guy is playing you for a fool.

This isn't going to end well for you if you decide to continue dating this knob. 

So what - he is just suppose to ignore her?

I mean, I need to re hash this conversation with him still. I just want to make sure that what I am asking for is fair. I know that what he offered to initially give me does not feel okay to me. He may not want to lose this friendship. So he honestly might say that since I have failed him in terms of communication and other things, and will not let him have her as a friend, that he is done with me.

[ExpatInItaly]

6 minutes ago, blocker said:

So he honestly might say that since I have failed him in terms of communication and other things, and will not let him have her as a friend, that he is done with me.

 Blocker, gently - where is your self-respect? Have you dated much before? 

Decent men don't do things like this to begin with. They wouldn't pressure you move too fast, wouldn't make you feel you somehow have something wrong with you when you're not ready to give him free reign to your apartment, wouldn't have you feeling like the problem is all you. They wouldn't be pulling a power-play move like this and have you compromising your own discomfort to appease him. 

This isn't a good guy. 

For reference, how old are you, and how did you meet him? Why does he want to move in with you so quickly? 

Edited November 23, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[Miss Spider]

Yes? It ignore it or just engaging with the bare minimum is what guys who are not interested would have done. He’s interested, so he flirted back. You are playing yourself with all this. 

[Miss Spider]

What would he do if she did more than just flirt? What would he do if she got naked in front in front of him and asked him to sleep with her. Will he have to appease her. He acts like he has absolutely no agency and you are buying it

Edited November 23, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[blocker]

2 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

 Blocker, gently - where is your self-respect? Have you dated much before? 

Decent men don't do things like this to begin with. They wouldn't pressure you move too fast, wouldn't make you feel you somehow have something wrong with you when you're not ready to give him free reign to your apartment, wouldn't have you feeling like the problem is all you. They wouldn't be pulling a power-play move like this and have you compromising your own discomfort to appease him. 

This isn't a good guy. 

For reference, how old are you, and how did you meet him? Why does he want to move in with you so quickly? 

Well - I think my issue here, is i had things to work on myself. I was not showing up 100%, which i realized and was successfully working on and showing improvements. We actually almost broke up about two weeks ago but decided to give it one last shot. I was not coming across as excited to do things, I was turning down some of his bids for connection. So part of me not showing up for him, likely lead him to see things I was missing is another. 

He was not trying to force the move in on me, rather it was that he thought having a key would make coming and going on work days when we started at different times easier. He was looking to hang out more often then 3 times a week.

This girl thing, all came to light recently. It was 5 days of daily chatting. Again, it wasn't all flirty. It was him sharing photos of his new playstation (the same photo he sent me), it was her calling him out for his bad grammar. The chatting was playful. Just general day to day conversations and her offerings to help / asking what he is up to.

He doesn't have any friends here, we often drive an hour to see his friends. So because someone has taken an interest and has shown they care, he sees it as a genuine friendship. And finds that genuine people are hard to find. So he wants to hold on to this one.

I am 30. I am just finding that this guy has done more, and been there for me more than anyone else. He has been the most invested, but this incident was shocking to experience.

[blocker]

2 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

What would he do if she did more than just flirt? What would he do if she got naked in front of him and said well you sleep with me? Will he have to appease her. He acts like he has absolutely no agency and you are buying it

I understand what you are saying, but this is currently being taken too far. She did offer to come over and drop off groceries, his favourite beverage, or to bring supplies from work to his house during the quarantine. I also offered to do this things. He said no to her. He said that he would never hang out with 1-1, and knew that hanging out together was inappropriate. He said in the moment he felt that he was just being friendly, but sees where he went wrong. I know that he would break up with me before pictures, or physical contact was made. I trust that he would not do that while with me. 

[Ami1uwant]

If they are coworkers who regularly see each other at work then she likely already knows about you.

 

sometimes if you know each other is already involved you might feel you can have a little fun in talking knowing thus isn’t being misread?

[blocker]

11 minutes ago, Ami1uwant said:

If they are coworkers who regularly see each other at work then she likely already knows about you.

 

sometimes if you know each other is already involved you might feel you can have a little fun in talking knowing thus isn’t being misread?

Yes - he said that she knows about me. And i made the mistake in saying that the messages were all flirty. They weren't. It was a lot of texts. Some of the messages made me feel uncomfortable ie - her asking if he needed groceries or things brought from work to home, or her offering to bring him coffee. Him showing her his new playstation via a phone text. She also made some jokes about his grammar being bad. His response was along the lines of "you are pretty smart, you'll just have you use your brain to figure out what im trying to say :)". He admittedly said that some comments were on that line of flirty. He knows what he did was not okay. He knows that hiding it was not okay either.

The day i discovered these messages and talked to him about it, she texted him asking what he was on doing. His reply was that he was spending time with me, and it was the first time we have seen each other since we were both in quarantine (due to being considered close contacts), and it was a really sweet night. Her reply was "awesome =)".

Her short reply made me wonder if she was upset, or just did not know what to say. I am just trying to determine my next steps....

Edited November 23, 2020 by blocker

[merrmeade]

The thing about flirting is that it's not overt. That's what makes it flirting.

The other thing is that if people are confronted about their flirting and deny it, you can be sure they're flirting.

You're saying "flirtY," however. The 'y' (instead of -ing) implies it's kind of, maybe, sort of but gives you a gray area to call it something else such as 'friendly.' You're taking his line and trying to find a way to make them okay because you don't want to lose him, so you imply they have an aspect of flirting to them. Maybe you should try to describe them - what he's doing and saying to her, the effect and intent - just how it feels and comes across and you'll realize that you don't want this and you're being taken advantage of if you go along with his lame explanations. 

I had a problem with someone denying that you could call his behavior "flirting," so I looked at different ways people explain it nd got the words for it. He couldn't deny them because they were what he was doing. I'll share some of it with you:

 Flirting is throwing out a lure while at the same time pretending that there is no such thing going on.   

 Flirting behavior is often suggestive of something or seemingly suggestive but hard to pin down. That's intentional.

Flirting surreptitiously creates intensity without appearing to have intention.

Flirting is a way to create a feeling of connection that has a private, personal intensity.

Flirting can involve overly attentive or caring gestures toward someone.

Flirting is always to get the target’s attention and, at the core, to feel liked, appreciated and attractive.

 

If any of that resonates, you might consider calling his bluff and telling him if he thinks you buy his b.s. way of explaining his interactions then he's underestimating you and even insulting. You should not tolerate this disrespect.

[smackie9]

1 hour ago, blocker said:

This girl thing, all came to light recently. It was 5 days of daily chatting. Again, it wasn't all flirty. It was him sharing photos of his new playstation (the same photo he sent me), it was her calling him out for his bad grammar. The chatting was playful. Just general day to day conversations and her offerings to help / asking what he is up to.

 

This is what people do when they start dating....spend a lot of time talking to each other, playful talk, flirting, offering things and help, doing favors, showing photos, sharing stories, etc. kind of the same way when he started dating you, am I right?

Edited November 23, 2020 by smackie9

[blocker]

I understand that it is, and was flirting. I know this because it made me feel uncomfortable reading it. He did not deny it was flirting. He said in the moment, he just felt like he was talking like he would to anyone as a very sarcastic / joking / teasing type way. But when reviewing the messages, he knows it is that way. He would be upset if we swapped places. He is a very friendly person, and we were/ and still are working through things regarding previous relationship problems. He a)received and sent flirty messages b)hid the messages because he didn't want me to see them c) fumbled on his words when put on the spot and he lied about accidentally achieving them.

So yes. He flirted and he lied to me. I am not saying he is innocent. What i am asking here, is what are my next steps if a choose to move forward? How can i avoid this from causing work problems for him, while getting him to understand that his desire to have this girl as a friend isn't what is best for us. Is it fair for me to ask him to contact her only regarding work? Right now he thinks mentioning me when he can, as well as dialling back his true self is the solution. I wanted this relationship so badly. I did see so many good things in him, and i dropped the ball in ways for not showing up for him. He found a friend that is obviously highlighting areas and things that i have not presented in awhile. Or am i clearly blinded by love here, and hoping for something that will never be...

Edited November 23, 2020 by blocker