Is the ball in my court or his?

[Blackberries]

Hi, so I (34f) met a guy (39m) on OKcupid in early September. He messaged first and we chit chatted but we were both away at the time. He asked me to go for a drink but I was about to go on another trip, then when I was back, he was away (even if he'd mentioned what date he was back, he would text each time he was back to say he was back). 

In mid October we eventually went on our first date, he initiated and arranged it. He was 15m late but regardless, it was the best first date I've ever had. He asked me if I was having a nice time, then asked if he could kiss me, then asked if I wanted to go on another date before we'd even finished this one. I was on cloud 9 going home. I texted him a funny picture a couple of days later and he mentioned he was looking forward to the second date. 

Second date, he's late again but we still had a great time. There's a curfew in our city right now so everything shuts at 11pm. I would have gone home, but he invited me back to his, with the caveat that he had to get up early in the morning. Anyway we're in his bedroom kissing etc and I mentioned that I didn't want to have sex yet as I didn't want to rush things. Keep in mind that we live in a very liberal and sex-positive European city. He seemed really put out by me saying this, said that this hasn't happened since he was a teenager, and even asked if I am more religious than I claim (we're both agnostic). I was really hurt by that. He seemed to feel a bit awkward and didn't cuddle me at all during the night. The next morning, he got out of bed and went into the kitchen as soon as he woke up. I went in to say good morning and he made me breakfast etc.  I mentioned I was going away the following week for 3 weeks and would be back on the 19th Nov. I noticed that unlike the first date, he didn't say anything about meeting again. 

The following day, I messaged asking if he wanted to go for a drink before I left, but he said he couldn't make it. He double checked i'd be back on the 19th, but didn't specifically mention meeting up when I got back. 

About a week into my trip, I texted to ask him how he was doing. It took him a couple of days to reply (not unusual for him if one of us is away) but he seemed friendly and asked how I was. Still no mention of meeting when I got back. 

I'm now back 3 days and haven't heard from him. I would really like to see him again but am paranoid that he's only after sex or that he's only replying to be polite but hasn't got any actual interest. He says himself he isn't much of a texter, especially with new people, but I'd expect a bit more enthusiasm. Should I text him again to let him know that I'm back, even though he already would know that I am? When he was on trips, he would proactively text to confirm he was back, even if he'd already told me what date he'd be back. Maybe he expects me to do the same? Or should I leave it? 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Blackberries

[Miss Spider]

He just wants sex, otherwise he would not be so impatient about it. Sounds like he lost interest because you didn’t sleep with him. A decent guy is not going to get “put off” because you asserted a boundary on a second ‘date’. Pretty bold assumption that not wanting his P in your V yet had something do with your religion. Please bruh . I know this wasn’t your question, but you should forget about the ball and forget about him. 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Mrin]

I'd just leave it. Not sure if he was only after sex but he behaved like a petulant child when he didn't get it. 

Ball was in his court anyhow. More so by the way he behaved. 

[MeadowFlower]

1 hour ago, Blackberries said:

Anyway we're in his bedroom kissing etc and I mentioned that I didn't want to have sex yet as I didn't want to rush things. Keep in mind that we live in a very liberal and sex-positive European city. He seemed really put out by me saying this, said that this hasn't happened since he was a teenager, and even asked if I am more religious than I claim (we're both agnostic). I was really hurt by that.

What a jerk. What is wrong with guys these days! Next. Find a decent guy. 

[Ami1uwant]

He wanted your berries.

 

 

[ThereSheGoes]

The pure fact that he got kinda defensive with you when you said you didn't want to have sex (which is you freakin CHOICE) says all that needs to be said.

He was just looking for booty. Honestly, he gave you a bucket full of signs before you even got to his bedroom, that alerted to what he wanted. The lateness in responding and the lateness in arriving to your dates. He does not respect you, and purely sees you as a conquest. Something to satisfy his sexual needs.

Also, he sounds a little rapey too. Who says stuff like that, just because you said No? 

Edited November 23, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Profanity

[notyouraveragebabe]

3 hours ago, Blackberries said:

Hi, so I (34f) met a guy (39m) on OKcupid in early September. He messaged first and we chit chatted but we were both away at the time. He asked me to go for a drink but I was about to go on another trip, then when I was back, he was away (even if he'd mentioned what date he was back, he would text each time he was back to say he was back). 

In mid October we eventually went on our first date, he initiated and arranged it. He was 15m late but regardless, it was the best first date I've ever had. He asked me if I was having a nice time, then asked if he could kiss me, then asked if I wanted to go on another date before we'd even finished this one. I was on cloud 9 going home. I texted him a funny picture a couple of days later and he mentioned he was looking forward to the second date. 

Second date, he's late again but we still had a great time. There's a curfew in our city right now so everything shuts at 11pm. I would have gone home, but he invited me back to his, with the caveat that he had to get up early in the morning. Anyway we're in his bedroom kissing etc and I mentioned that I didn't want to have sex yet as I didn't want to rush things. Keep in mind that we live in a very liberal and sex-positive European city. He seemed really put out by me saying this, said that this hasn't happened since he was a teenager, and even asked if I am more religious than I claim (we're both agnostic). I was really hurt by that. He seemed to feel a bit awkward and didn't cuddle me at all during the night. The next morning, he got out of bed and went into the kitchen as soon as he woke up. I went in to say good morning and he made me breakfast etc.  I mentioned I was going away the following week for 3 weeks and would be back on the 19th Nov. I noticed that unlike the first date, he didn't say anything about meeting again. 

The following day, I messaged asking if he wanted to go for a drink before I left, but he said he couldn't make it. He double checked i'd be back on the 19th, but didn't specifically mention meeting up when I got back. 

About a week into my trip, I texted to ask him how he was doing. It took him a couple of days to reply (not unusual for him if one of us is away) but he seemed friendly and asked how I was. Still no mention of meeting when I got back. 

I'm now back 3 days and haven't heard from him. I would really like to see him again but am paranoid that he's only after sex or that he's only replying to be polite but hasn't got any actual interest. He says himself he isn't much of a texter, especially with new people, but I'd expect a bit more enthusiasm. Should I text him again to let him know that I'm back, even though he already would know that I am? When he was on trips, he would proactively text to confirm he was back, even if he'd already told me what date he'd be back. Maybe he expects me to do the same? Or should I leave it? 

Sounds like you dodged a bullet. Don't waste your time with this one. If he was interested in you he would reach out. The signs are there, he was upset he didn't get to sleep with you. That was rude, he didn't like you for you, he wanted sex. Protect your heart, find someone else more sincere about getting to know you.

I once went out with a guy, didn't sleep with him when he tried, on our 3rd date.  I went home, after he tried. I never heard from him again.

[ShyViolet]

4 hours ago, Blackberries said:

Anyway we're in his bedroom kissing etc and I mentioned that I didn't want to have sex yet as I didn't want to rush things. Keep in mind that we live in a very liberal and sex-positive European city. He seemed really put out by me saying this, said that this hasn't happened since he was a teenager, and even asked if I am more religious than I claim (we're both agnostic). I was really hurt by that.

And yet after this you still stayed the night?  That's kinda weird.  It was only the second date, and you said that you don't want to "rush things", but you stayed the night.  Maybe he didn't actually want you to stay the night, he was expecting you to leave.  That is the feeling I'm getting.

This guy really seems not interested anymore.  Take the hint.

[Wiseman2]

Sorry to hear that. You need to next him, unless you want random hookups.

Pressuring you for sex (doesn't matter where you live) is sort of obnoxious.

Keep in mind he's talking to and having sex with others.

Decide what you want. If it's an exclusive dating situation or relationship, he's not your guy.

Get back on your dating apps and start talking to and meeting others. Make sure dates don't drag  out and end up in some guy's house on date 2.

[Versacehottie]

Ball is totally in his court--though I think you should pull out of the game/match with him!

While you seem to be looking for clues about his intentions and how he interacts, don't put your head in the sand when you are getting clues back from him.  I would say because you had a good time on the first date you've given that too much weight and are ignoring how he has treated you otherwise, which is not good or respectful or particularly interested.  He's doing the bare minimum right now.  Also from how he behaved, aren't you off him?  It's pretty unappealing from the standpoint of hoping for a romantic connection or a relationship.  So make sure you look at the whole picture, not just one good first date and now want a relationship with him.  Maybe he doesn't deserve you

I think if you step back and look at it as rather trying to prove yourself worthy of him and see IF he's worthy of YOU, you will see he is coming up short.

ps next time, I don't think you should go to his place on the second date.  It creates expectations on his end (getting more physical than you did) and on yours (that he just want to spend time with you and not misinterpret what YOUR reason is for being there) and you really don't know who or what he's about (possibly dangerous).  Also you can avoid his tantrums and rather than cause confusion for him/yourself, you can make your boundary clear by not putting yourself in a situation where it's cloudy to some people.  Should the world be this way? No, of course not but what it should be and what it is are different things.  If only for safety reasons, I don't think you should have done it.  It's ol school thinking but so many people still think this way: if you want to wait until you are comfortable, don't put yourself into situations where it will be called into question.  A guy who likes you and has good intentions won't mind waiting.  A lot of guys, even those with good intentions, get confused (or worse!) when you are back at their place trying to draw some imaginary line.  It's very one note of guys to do this (of those that do).  Idk, I just think women in general think of things in many layers and nuances.  Which is something you can't count on from a guy in that exact situation and who is a stranger to you.

You should drop him for the ungentlemanly like tantrum and low interest alone though. Good luck

[ExpatInItaly]

11 hours ago, Blackberries said:

Anyway we're in his bedroom kissing etc and I mentioned that I didn't want to have sex yet as I didn't want to rush things. Keep in mind that we live in a very liberal and sex-positive European city. He seemed really put out by me saying this, said that this hasn't happened since he was a teenager, and even asked if I am more religious than I claim (we're both agnostic). I was really hurt by that. He seemed to feel a bit awkward and didn't cuddle me at all during the night.

I would have no desire to meet this guy again after this reaction. What a chump. 

Let him take this ball to someone else's court. 

[elaine567]

If you don't want sex, don't agree to go home with a man and don't end up kissing him in his bedroom.
That is asking for trouble.
Here he just got a bit put out and pissed off, the next guy may not be so passive.

[Wiseman2]

His ball should be catapulted out of bounds.

[Ruby Slippers]

I'd move on.

But I agree - never go to a man's house or invite him to yours before you're ready for sex. Definitely don't get in bed with him and expect to just cuddle all night. It's awkward and kind of emasculating for the guy.

[Calmandfocused]

I’m really baffled how 2 people are going on so many “trips” in the middle of a global pandemic? 
 

I don’t know what field of work you’re in Op but I’d strongly recommend that get yourself settled a bit more before you date. Jetting off for 3 weeks at a time will frustrate any early dating situation IMO. 
 

This ship has sailed. He thought he was getting sex on date 2, and he’s moved on because he didn’t. 

[introverted1]

The ball is deflated and can't be pumped up.

Next.

[smackie9]

A) never invite a man to your bedroom or his unless sex is on the table. You don't get "into it" then put the brakes on. Nothing wrong with some make out time say at the front door or at a dark corner of a restaurant, the couch but come on in a bedroom?? You can't take risks like that with a stranger.

B) can you not see a set up? Oh it's late I need to stay at your place.....

C) late once ok, but a second time mmmm no. This is an example of "I don't think about the other person and I'm here for only my reasons".

D) ditch this guy, he wants availability and sex...he ain't gonna wait a month to smooge you for another date, and still no sex. He's moving on, this ain't working out.

[peach302]

23 hours ago, Blackberries said:

Hi, so I (34f) met a guy (39m) on OKcupid in early September. He messaged first and we chit chatted but we were both away at the time. He asked me to go for a drink but I was about to go on another trip, then when I was back, he was away (even if he'd mentioned what date he was back, he would text each time he was back to say he was back). 

In mid October we eventually went on our first date, he initiated and arranged it. He was 15m late but regardless, it was the best first date I've ever had. He asked me if I was having a nice time, then asked if he could kiss me, then asked if I wanted to go on another date before we'd even finished this one. I was on cloud 9 going home. I texted him a funny picture a couple of days later and he mentioned he was looking forward to the second date. 

Second date, he's late again but we still had a great time. There's a curfew in our city right now so everything shuts at 11pm. I would have gone home, but he invited me back to his, with the caveat that he had to get up early in the morning. Anyway we're in his bedroom kissing etc and I mentioned that I didn't want to have sex yet as I didn't want to rush things. Keep in mind that we live in a very liberal and sex-positive European city. He seemed really put out by me saying this, said that this hasn't happened since he was a teenager, and even asked if I am more religious than I claim (we're both agnostic). I was really hurt by that. He seemed to feel a bit awkward and didn't cuddle me at all during the night. The next morning, he got out of bed and went into the kitchen as soon as he woke up. I went in to say good morning and he made me breakfast etc.  I mentioned I was going away the following week for 3 weeks and would be back on the 19th Nov. I noticed that unlike the first date, he didn't say anything about meeting again. 

The following day, I messaged asking if he wanted to go for a drink before I left, but he said he couldn't make it. He double checked i'd be back on the 19th, but didn't specifically mention meeting up when I got back. 

About a week into my trip, I texted to ask him how he was doing. It took him a couple of days to reply (not unusual for him if one of us is away) but he seemed friendly and asked how I was. Still no mention of meeting when I got back. 

I'm now back 3 days and haven't heard from him. I would really like to see him again but am paranoid that he's only after sex or that he's only replying to be polite but hasn't got any actual interest. He says himself he isn't much of a texter, especially with new people, but I'd expect a bit more enthusiasm. Should I text him again to let him know that I'm back, even though he already would know that I am? When he was on trips, he would proactively text to confirm he was back, even if he'd already told me what date he'd be back. Maybe he expects me to do the same? Or should I leave it? 

No leave it definitely. 

He doesnt  care now that he didnt get what he really wanted.

How entitled can one person be . Bragging about how no ones rejected him since he was a teenager.

 

[Caauug]

On 11/21/2020 at 9:44 PM, ThereSheGoes said:

Also, he sounds a little rapey too. Who says stuff like that, just because you said No? 

Rapey? as in RAPE???? Where do you get that from? Where is the part where he forces OP to do anything against her will?

2nd date: They have a "Good time.

OP goes back to his place under her own free will.

They are in his bedroom kissing when OP says "I didn't want to have sex yet as I didn't want to rush things." or NO SEX!!!

They both talk about it 

He does not cuddle her while sleeping. OP disappointed? (This can't be it, he didn't touch her)

He gets out of bed and makes breakfast. (OP had no control his actions here)

He brushes off any more attempts by OP.

The way I read it: After the "NO SEX" the only action OP had no control over was him getting up and making breakfast.... Therefor you are say "If he gets up and makes breakfast that is "RAPEY"" WTF!!!!

Or are you suggesting OP should cry RAPE because of the way he treated her? I really do not like that comment when there was no grounds for it stated in OP's post. Making false claims of rape should be treated as harshly as the crime it's self as both actions destroy lives. 

Edited November 23, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Profanity

[ThereSheGoes]

15 minutes ago, Caauug said:

Rapey? as in RAPE???? Where do you get that from? Where is the part where he forces OP to do anything against her will?

2nd date: They have a "Good time.

OP goes back to his place under her own free will.

They are in his bedroom kissing when OP says "I didn't want to have sex yet as I didn't want to rush things." or NO SEX!!!

They both talk about it 

He does not cuddle her while sleeping. OP disappointed? (This can't be it, he didn't touch her)

He gets out of bed and makes breakfast. (OP had no control his actions here)

He brushes off any more attempts by OP.

The way I read it: After the "NO SEX" the only action OP had no control over was him getting up and making breakfast.... Therefor you are say "If he gets up and makes breakfast that is "RAPEY"" WTF!!!!

Or are you suggesting OP should cry RAPE because of the way he treated her? I really do not like that comment when there was no grounds for it stated in OP's post. Making false claims of rape should be treated as harshly as the crime it's self as both actions destroy lives. 

 

I was calling him rapey because he got defensive and asked her if she really was agnostic, because she wouldn't sleep with him. That's rape-ish behavior. If a woman says no, how dare you make her feel bad for her choice or come at her in a demanding, criticizing manner. Trying to manipulate and guilt trip her into sharing her body, when she doesn't want to.  It was very childish of him. A real man would have said okay, stopped what he was doing, and either separated himself from the situation or told her that she needed to leave. I believe he wanted her to leave.

The breakfast act is a moot point to me. It was how he acted before the incident, during the incident and after the incident. He was scum.

Edited November 23, 2020 by ThereSheGoes

[Miss Spider]

Mmm no I disagree that is what “everyone does” . I have told guys after very heated make out seshs that is as far as I would like to go. And not a single man I’ve dated has got” defensive “and why  (wth???), much less accuse me of lying about faith or lack thereof. Not wanting to sleep with someone doesn’t need some sort of justification. Of course no one accused this guy of rape . But he does sound a bit rapey, though I think creepy is a more accurate adj. 

Edited November 23, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[GeorgiaPeach1]

Whether you intended to or not, you pulled a bait and switch with him—making it seem you were up for intimacy (going back to his place, kissing and getting him worked up) but then suddenly slamming on the breaks. You should have told him up front BEFORE you got to his place what your boundaries were. 
 

The competition in online dating can be fierce. Coming across as playing games will get you put on the back burner. Again, you may not have intended to play games, but that’s how you came across to him I’m willing to bet. 

[ThereSheGoes]

3 hours ago, GeorgiaPeach1 said:

Whether you intended to or not, you pulled a bait and switch with him—making it seem you were up for intimacy (going back to his place, kissing and getting him worked up) but then suddenly slamming on the breaks. You should have told him up front BEFORE you got to his place what your boundaries were. 
 

The competition in online dating can be fierce. Coming across as playing games will get you put on the back burner. Again, you may not have intended to play games, but that’s how you came across to him I’m willing to bet. 

 

But why is choosing to go only so far, considered a 'game'? If all she wanted to do was kiss....then she has that choice. It's not like it is a reoccurring pattern of hers with this guy, where she just continuously gets him worked up and then leave. This was only the second date.

I sometimes feel like some men  think that just because you turn them on, either by just looking a certain way, or like OP did, making out with them, that then you owe them sex. You don't owe them a damn thing. It's your body. If all you want to do is hold hands, thats your choice. If all you want to do is kiss, thats your choice. If all you want to do is cuddle him, butt naked, thats your choice.

Now it's up to him to say, I don't feel comfortable with this, I don't want to, you need to go. Not make her feel bad for his own bodily reaction. You either respect the choice or don't. If you choose not to, be an adult about it and ask them to leave. 

[Wiseman2]

29 minutes ago, ThereSheGoes said:

If you choose not to, be an adult about it and ask them to leave. 

Exactly, she should have left if he was being obnoxious.

[GeorgiaPeach1]

1 hour ago, ThereSheGoes said:

 

But why is choosing to go only so far, considered a 'game'? If all she wanted to do was kiss....then she has that choice. It's not like it is a reoccurring pattern of hers with this guy, where she just continuously gets him worked up and then leave. This was only the second date.

I sometimes feel like some men  think that just because you turn them on, either by just looking a certain way, or like OP did, making out with them, that then you owe them sex. You don't owe them a damn thing. It's your body. If all you want to do is hold hands, thats your choice. If all you want to do is kiss, thats your choice. If all you want to do is cuddle him, butt naked, thats your choice.

Now it's up to him to say, I don't feel comfortable with this, I don't want to, you need to go. Not make her feel bad for his own bodily reaction. You either respect the choice or don't. If you choose not to, be an adult about it and ask them to leave. 

She should have made her boundaries known up front. This would have saved a lot of confusion.