Should you ask on OLD what the guy is looking for?

[Acacia98]

On 11/18/2020 at 12:06 AM, SumGuy said:

Amended:  I think it is very good to ask, as it keeps those who are players etc. from saying later "well you never asked."  It forestalls a lot of the BS the guys who think sex only, FWB, non-exclusivity is somehow the default even when your profiles says not interested in casual and looking for a relationship.   It's not like these guys will necessarily tell you the truth, but it removes right away some of their lame a** rationalizations and excuses.

 

I'm with you on this one.

On 11/18/2020 at 1:07 AM, salparadise said:

I'm appalled to hear that [nearly] everyone thinks this is a good question to ask. When I hear it the first thing I think is, well crap, another phukking scammer. It definitely is an often used scammer opening... to try and get you to do all the talking, to get you to be all serious, sincere and goal oriented right out of the gate. And of course that's the type they're after, so they're qualifying you.

Ladies, do not ask this question, for several reasons... first, you're never going to get an real, honest answer. Secondly, it's probably the most cliché thing you could possibly ask and it makes you seem intellectually challenged. We all wonder these things, but nobody with any savvy asks outright. It's probably covered in the profile anyway, and if not it will be apparent as you begin to get acquainted.

I respond to this question with ridiculous answers that send them packing, scammer or not. I won't post them here. Just don't.

I guess you should continue doing what works for you. It has presumably served you well.

As for me, I have a different philosophy, and not surprisingly, it's based on my experience. IME, being comfortable enough to bring up this kind of topic in a friendly conversation while getting to know each other is a good sign. It means that I don't have to walk on eggshells around the guy, worrying that this minor thing will piss him off or that minor thing will piss him off. It's exhausting dealing with guys who get upset and have rigid rules about the mildest of things. I've had enough of that. To me, easy comfortable communication is the most important thing in a relationship. If I can't talk to someone about something as simple as what he's looking for in a general sense, but he expects me to be ready to have sex with him within six to twelve dates (based on what I've read in posts on this website and elsewhere, this is the dating norm) then something's very wrong. We're clearly not right for each other.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Acacia98

[Acacia98]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

That's a weird analogy Wiseman.  When buying a house, we know exactly what the seller wants, and it's just one thing: the right amount of money.  If it's an auction, the amount may be hidden...but we still know that the bottom line is all about money.   However if it' a sale, what he wants is right at the top of the advert

Yep.

And to modify the analogy significantly, my sense is that, in the dating situation described, the issue is that the OP (or anyone else for that matter) does not know if the owner of the house is looking for a renter or a buyer. How does one realistically proceed without an indication of that?

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

. How does one realistically proceed without an indication of that?

One proceeds by getting on high quality paid dating apps that are relationship oriented.

One proceeds by getting off cheap/free hookup apps and then playing guessing games as to what people's intentions are.

One proceeds by not ripping apart others sound and well intended advice in an uncivil manner and instead offers thier own thoughts and advice independent of piling up on posters because they "don't like" an analogy.

[dangerous]

What is significant here, is that the past two MALE posters, myself and Wiseman2, our comments either ignored or disliked, when all the objectors have been women! After all the OP was a woman asking for help. If they just listen to confirmation of the same viewpoint, from women, and immediately jump at the replies from men, then do not be surprised that nothing is actually learnt!

[dangerous]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

A laundry list of what you want and are looking for is a huge mistake.

Think about it. Would an ad for a house that talks about desirable characteristics appeal to you more than an ad that lists what the owner/seller wants?

Would you even bother viewing a house that's listed as "owner wants this, that etc.?

Or would a pleasant upbeat description appeal to you more?

And specifically, to this analogy, it is actually relevant...

From the male point of view, and my personal experience, when I see a profile from a woman saying she wants this and expects that, it is such a put off, a confirmation she is demanding and self-entitled , I immediately next her, no matter how attractive her photos are. Much better to be open, light hearted and telling me about  herself and likes to do. and that in itself sells her to me, which is necessary before I can try to interest her in me.

[stillafool]

If  I was still in the dating world and a guy asked what I was looking for I would just say "a good time".  What else can I expect at that stage?

[elaine567]

16 minutes ago, dangerous said:

And specifically, to this analogy, it is actually relevant...

From the male point of view, and my personal experience, when I see a profile from a woman saying she wants this and expects that, it is such a put off, a confirmation she is demanding and self-entitled , I immediately next her, no matter how attractive her photos are. Much better to be open, light hearted and telling me about  herself and likes to do. and that in itself sells her to me, which is necessary before I can try to interest her in me.

Ok but your MO from a previous thread is to want to set up a non exclusive casual arrangement and see where it goes... and that is the kind of arrangement so many woman do not want to get involved with, that is exactly what they want to avoid.
Nor I guess would she want any man who had the attitude that a woman having the temerity to say what she really wants means she is demanding and entitled...

[miss2017]

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

A laundry list of what you want and are looking for is a huge mistake.

Think about it. Would an ad for a house that talks about desirable characteristics appeal to you more than an ad that lists what the owner/seller wants?

Would you even bother viewing a house that's listed as "owner wants this, that etc.?

Or would a pleasant upbeat description appeal to you more?

I think in dating is about both. What you want and have to offer the other, and what the other wants and has to offer you, and both people need to be transparent and clear about it in order to see if they are a match.

Edited November 19, 2020 by miss2017

[miss2017]

3 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

Yep.

And to modify the analogy significantly, my sense is that, in the dating situation described, the issue is that the OP (or anyone else for that matter) does not know if the owner of the house is looking for a renter or a buyer. How does one realistically proceed without an indication of that?

Exactly! We're so practical when buying a house or a car or even a package of milk, but then have so many issues to be direct and communicative in our personal lives!

I don't like job interview type of conversations: what are you looking for, single or divorced, what is your job, etc, but I have no problem in asking this question or being asked in a normal conversation, especially when things are flowing between me and the guy.

[miss2017]

1 hour ago, dangerous said:

And specifically, to this analogy, it is actually relevant...

From the male point of view, and my personal experience, when I see a profile from a woman saying she wants this and expects that, it is such a put off, a confirmation she is demanding and self-entitled , I immediately next her, no matter how attractive her photos are. Much better to be open, light hearted and telling me about  herself and likes to do. and that in itself sells her to me, which is necessary before I can try to interest her in me.

So knowing what she wants and saying it out loud is being demanding and self-entitled? To me those are two very different things.

[miss2017]

48 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Ok but your MO from a previous thread is to want to set up a non exclusive casual arrangement and see where it goes... and that is the kind of arrangement so many woman do not want to get involved with, that is exactly what they want to avoid.
Nor I guess would she want any man who had the attitude that a woman having the temerity to say what she really wants means she is demanding and entitled...

I think most men that want "casual arrangements and see where it goes" have ZERO idea of how a woman works, and don't give a shyt to it. And many women don't have also.

Women bond through sex. They release an hormone called oxytocin which is a bonding hormone. The more sex a woman has with a particular man, the more oxytocin she releases and the more attached she gets to him. This doesn't happen with men.

That is why savvy women do not do casual arrangements, because they do not want to get attached with idiots or guys who do not want to build anything solid with them, and maybe are even sleeping with other women at the same time.

So women who know what they want and say it loud are not entitled or demanding. They are SMART!

I think many men should educate themselves on how women's nature is.

Edited November 19, 2020 by miss2017

[peach302]

On 11/17/2020 at 10:15 PM, boymommy said:

I agree, I don't think it's a good question to ask a guy! As I said in my response, if a guy wants a relationship (more specifically a relationship with YOU) he'll make that known and do the leg work involved to make it happen. You won't have to ask anything at all. 

This is exactly it. 100! 

And is or at least was true in my situation with that guy.

Edited November 19, 2020 by peach302

[peach302]

23 minutes ago, miss2017 said:

I think most men that want "casual arrangements and see where it goes" have ZERO idea of how a woman works, and don't give a shyt to it. And many women don't have also.

Women bond through sex. They release an hormone called oxytocin which is a bonding hormone. The more sex a woman has with a particular man, the more oxytocin she releases and the more attached she gets to him. This doesn't happen with men.

That is why savvy women do not do casual arrangements, because they do not want to get attached with idiots or guys who do not want to build anything solid with them, and maybe are even sleeping with other women at the same time.

So women who know what they want and say it loud are not entitled or demanding. They are SMART!

I think many men should educate themselves on how women's nature is.

A lot of men already know this about women and do take advantage. 

 

Women  just need to be smarter and follow logic more often as opposed to  what  their heart wants.

Edited November 19, 2020 by peach302

[miss2017]

Just now, peach302 said:

A lot of men already know this about women and do take advantage. 

 

Women  just need to be smarter and follow logic more often as opposed to  what  their heart wants.

Yes that is true. That is why women need to be smart.

[Gaeta]

When I was online dating it was always the 1st question I asked after saying hello. I was online to find a boyfriend, a serious dater, I was not on there to socialize. Not asking what they're looking for is a huge waste of your time. Most of the time men are honest, but you've got to ask. I would only speak to men that had put themselves in the category 'serious dating' and you'd be amazed at the amount of men in that category that answered my question with: looking for a friend, looking for casual dating, nothing serious. They told me they put themselves in the serious dating category because even though they don't want anything serious they don't want to meet with a woman that sleeps around. (It's ok for them to sleep around, just not their female partner). Then even if you ask them your job isn't done, you've got to judge by yourself if their actions really confirm they're serious. Good luck it takes a lot of patience to find someone online. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Gaeta

[poppyfields]

5 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

As for me, I have a different philosophy, and not surprisingly, it's based on my experience. IME, being comfortable enough to bring up this kind of topic in a friendly conversation while getting to know each other is a good sign.

To me, easy comfortable communication is the most important thing in a relationship. If I can't talk to someone about something as simple as what he's looking for in a general sense, but he expects me to be ready to have sex with him within six to twelve dates ..... then something is very wrong.  

^^I agree with you!   But prior to or during the first meet?  Which I believe was the original question.  

No, I don't believe it serves any worthwhile purpose for all the reasons I and others cited within this thread.  

But yes once a mutual attraction has been established and you begin dating, it's fine to broach the topic a general sense.  

It can even be fun to talk about it!  Doesn't have to be this big heavy discussion.  

But prior to or during first meet?  I never did, never understood the relevance of it.  

For those who did ask and the relationship worked out?  My guess is it would have worked out regardless of whether you asked or not. 

As they were simply the right person, which you discovered by actually dating them.

Edited November 19, 2020 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

What I'm not understanding about those who endorse asking prior to or during first meet, why the fear in taking a risk and allowing it all to simply play out naturally and organically?  

Okay so you have a few dates and then discover through actions he/she only wants casual.   

Not understanding the issue, you simply move on, right?   You'd be doing the same thing even if he/she had told you they were seeking serious, but acting casual, wouldn't you?  

I am trying so hard to understand the relevance of it, again prior to or during first meet.

There are never ever any guarantees about these things. 

Guy who told you he's seeking a serious relationship might only want casual, with you.

Guy who told you he's seeking casual might decide after a few dates he would like to explore more serious, with you.  

It's all a g-dam crapshoot.

  

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by poppyfields

[Acacia98]

38 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

^^I agree with you!   But prior to or during the first meet?  Which I believe was the original question.  

No, I don't believe it serves any worthwhile purpose for all the reasons I and others cited within this thread.  

But yes once a mutual attraction has been established and you begin dating, it's fine to broach the topic a general sense.  

It can even be fun to talk about it!  Doesn't have to be this big heavy discussion.  

But prior to or during first meet?  I never did, never understood the relevance of it.  

For those who did ask and the relationship worked out?  My guess is it would have worked out regardless of whether you asked or not. 

As they were simply the right person, which you discovered by actually dating them.

Whenever it organically comes up is fine. It could come up when you're still chatting online. It could come up when you first meet. It could come up afterwards. I'm not a "rigid rules" kind of person. If the guy wants to ask it, he can. If I want to ask it I can. 

I guess the relevance comes down to who you are and how you navigate through life, relationships, etc. Some folks like to establish some info at the very beginning. Some like to go with the flow and let what happens happen. So if you know who you are and what works for you, you go with that. It won't necessarily work for the next person. They should do what works for them.

In my case, it has worked well when we've talked about this kind of thing in the beginning. And it's not always been me who asked the question. The guys have also asked it. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Acacia98

[poppyfields]

13 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

Whenever it organically comes up is fine. It could come up when you're still chatting online. It could come up when you first meet. It could come up afterwards. I'm not a "rigid rules" kind of person. If the guy wants to ask it, he can. If I want to ask it I can. 

I'm not a rigid rules person either in fact I loathe rules!   I make my own rules! 

So don't disagree, and yes of course you can ask, he can ask, whenever it strikes your fancy.  Even prior to meeting if you want.  No judgment from me whatsoever.

I simply don't understand the relevance of it, again for all reasons cited throughout this thread.  

That's what I'm waiting to hear from someone, the why of it.  I'd really like to understand.

To quote my previous post:

>>Guy who told you he's seeking a serious relationship might only want casual, with you.

Guy who told you he's seeking casual might decide after a few dates he would like to explore more serious, with you.  

It's all a g-dam crapshoot. <<

Edited November 19, 2020 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

30 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

I guess the relevance comes down to who you are and how you navigate through life, relationships, etc. Some folks like to establish some info at the very beginning. Some like to go with the flow and let what happens happen. So if you know who you are and what works for you, you go with that. It won't necessarily work for the next person. They should do what works for them.

Acacia, thank you for this^^.  Still doesn't quite make sense; you claim you're seeking info but what good is this info (assuming the info is they're seeking a serious relationship) if upon actually dating and spending time together and getting to know, their actions don't match the info?  Which happens all the time. 

It did in your case, which is great, I'm happy for you, truly. 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by poppyfields

[Ruby Slippers]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

What I'm not understanding about those who endorse asking prior to or during first meet, why the fear in taking a risk and allowing it all to simply play out naturally and organically?  

Okay so you have a few dates and then discover through actions he/she only wants casual.   

Not understanding the issue, you simply move on, right?   You'd be doing the same thing even if he/she had told you they were seeking serious, but acting casual, wouldn't you?  

I am trying so hard to understand the relevance of it, again prior to or during first meet.

It's not fear - it's foresight and planning.

I've never asked a guy first what he wants, only answer when he asks and then ask in reply. I agree with the people who say that a serious guy does all the legwork to demonstrate clearly to you that he's serious. There are men on dating sites who truly want something serious and lasting, and are just as happy as you are to meet someone cool who wants the same. Those are the ONLY men I've EVER been interested in.

I wouldn't even bother to have a phone call let alone a date with a guy who didn't make it clear that he's serious. Why? Because my time is valuable and I have zero interest in wasting it with a guy who doesn't show any promise for something meaningful. I'm 1,000 times happier relaxing and entertaining myself at home than wasting the effort to go meet some guy who has nothing to offer me.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Ruby Slippers

[miss2017]

50 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

It's not fear - it's foresight and planning.

I've never asked a guy first what he wants, only answer when he asks and then ask in reply. I agree with the people who say that a serious guy does all the legwork to demonstrate clearly to you that he's serious. There are men on dating sites who truly want something serious and lasting, and are just as happy as you are to meet someone cool who wants the same. Those are the ONLY men I've EVER been interested in.

I wouldn't even bother to have a phone call let alone a date with a guy who didn't make it clear that he's serious. Why? Because my time is valuable and I have zero interest in wasting it with a guy who doesn't show any promise for something meaningful. I'm 1,000 times happier relaxing and entertaining myself at home than wasting the effort to go meet some guy who has nothing to offer me.

Love this! 

Agree, it is not fear, it’s boundaries! 

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

It's not fear - it's foresight and planning.

I wouldn't even bother to have a phone call let alone a date with a guy who didn't make it clear that he's serious. Why? Because my time is valuable and I have zero interest in wasting it with a guy who doesn't show any promise for something meaningful. I'm 1,000 times happier relaxing and entertaining myself at home than wasting the effort to go meet some guy who has nothing to offer me.

Thanks Ruby, but to clarify, I never said it was about fear, nor did I read anyone else saying it was fear.  Not quite sure where you got that, but it's fine.

To the bolded, I respect that truly.  But I'm curious, if/when a man does not make it clear from the get-go, like say with OLD, prior to meeting or during the first meet, that he has serious intentions, how can you be certain you would be "wasting your time" with a man who has nothing to offer you?   No judgment, but this mindset truly baffles me.

To me, you're dismissing a lot of guys who might very well be perfect for you, and have a lot to offer you, but simply feel as many people do, asking this question prior to or during first meet serves no worthwhile purpose, as anything can happen and you have to date for a while, spend time together to know what it is you truly want, with that person.

I agree with you that when a man is serious he will do the legwork to demonstrate he's serious, but imo this is something you determine while actually dating him, paying to attention to actions, spending actual time together. NOT by arbitrary and otherwise meaningless "words" spoken or read on a phone or computer screen prior to or during the first meet.

As we all know, or should, words mean jack s*** if/when not backed up with actions and actions are assessed while actually dating him, not what he says prior to meeting.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by poppyfields

[Ruby Slippers]

16 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Thanks Ruby, but to clarify, I never said it was about fear, nor did I read anyone else saying it was fear.  Not quite sure where you got that, but it's fine.

Your words above: What I'm not understanding about those who endorse asking prior to or during first meet, why the fear in taking a risk and allowing it all to simply play out naturally and organically?  

16 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

To me, you're dismissing a lot of guys who might very well be perfect for you, and have a lot to offer you, but simply feel as many people do, asking this question prior to or during first meet serves no worthwhile purpose, as anything can happen and you have to date for a while, spend time together to know what it is you truly want, with that person.

I know what I want in the big picture, and the men I click best with also know what they want in the big picture. I'm serious, straight-shooting, and driven. I'm only interested in men who are the same. I've learned not to fiddle around with approximations of what I want, but to go directly and precisely for what I want. Of course you don't know if you want it with that person until you get to know them, but if they don't want the same thing, there's no point in wasting your time in the first place.

Someone said above that it's a bad idea to have a detailed list. I disagree. Of course I'm not going to put my list on my dating profile. My list is for my reference only. To continue the house analogy, when I was shopping for my house, I had a VERY long list of must-haves and would-be-nice-to-haves. I sifted through hundreds and hundreds of listings in a very hot real estate market to find a cute starter house that met all my requirements and many of my desires. It's because I was so abundantly clear with myself about what I wanted that I was able to easily and quickly weed out any that didn't meet my needs and wants. What an awful waste of time - both my time and the real estate agent's time - it would have been to go look at any old house that might do.

[poppyfields]

1 minute ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Your words above: What I'm not understanding about those who endorse asking prior to or during first meet, why the fear in taking a risk and allowing it all to simply play out naturally and organically?  

Lol @ myself, I stand corrected!  I forgot I wrote that, my bad.