caputo77 Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 About two months ago I met this guy online. We went on a couple fun dates, then he revealed he hated his job and was looking for a new one — not necessarily in the area. That being said, he wasn’t looking to commit to something super serious at the moment and he didn’t want to lead anyone on in case he ends up moving away. If he did move, it would likely be in January of next year (that’s when his lease is up), so not too far off. I weighed all my options and between being completely 1000% burnt out with online dating and concerned about constantly meeting new people with COVID, I figured something casual could be fun for me and would work well in my life at this time. From day one, I operated under the assumption he will be leaving in January and having that “expiration date” has helped me remain pretty emotionally detached. Obviously I like him, appreciate his personality, get excited about seeing him, and like being around him, but that’s about as far as my actual feelings go since we’ve kept things so casual. I guess you could say I have a "crush" on him but it's not deeper than that right now. We’ve been seeing each other about 2 times a week and it’s not necessarily just sex…I usually go over around 8 or 9, we have a drink and catch up for an hour or two, watch something together, then hook up and cuddle/talk until we fall asleep. I always spend the night and we’ll talk more in the morning, sometimes have a coffee together, then I’ll leave (I don’t linger because I have to get to work). When I am there with him, it’s very easy for me to live in the moment and enjoy him. Our conversations are fun and easy, I feel happy when I’m with him, he meets my physical needs, he never pressures me, he makes me feel respected, etc. It’s a pretty good FWB arrangement as far as I can tell and it feels like enough when I’m in it. But lately….I’ve been craving more. Again, I don’t really have feelings at this point, but I’m tired of keeping my walls up. I want to have deeper and more intimate conversations. I want to learn about him and share about myself. I also wouldn’t mind doing things that go beyond just having sex (like hiking together, exploring the city, going out to dinner, etc). I guess that stacks up to me wanting a relationship. And every interaction we've had so far has made me think more and more he'd be good boyfriend material. Darn. So I guess I’m wondering where I go from here. He’s been casually mentioning over the last few weeks that he has multiple job interviews lined up in the area and it’s starting to sound a bit more likely that he might be sticking around (kind of feel like he’s trying to gauge my reaction by continually bringing that up but that’s a whole other can of worms). I can’t tell if his initial reason for not wanting something more serious was just a cop-out and he is just emotionally unavailable, or if it was truly bad timing but the barriers wouldn’t be in place anymore if he decides to stay. I don’t know how to ask about this without feeling like I’m pestering him when he’s still uncertain about his future, or without making it seem like I either (A) want a relationship RIGHT NOW (which I don’t, I’m still willing to take things slow), or (B) am falling in love with him (I’m not). Especially since it’s only been two months. Is the best option to just keep going with the flow and see where things go? Also, do things that start this casual ever even successfully move into something more serious? I just feel like we are so far behind emotionally than where we’re at physically. I’m not sure I see a natural way for certain behaviors to change (like not really texting besides making plans or not going on real dates). Any experience/advice is appreciated! Thanks in advance.
GeorgiaPeach1 Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 It's very hard, but not impossible, to cross over from bed buddies to something more serious. Normally I would advise against outright asking a man where he stands, but in a case like this you should sit him down and tell him your interest level in having something more has increased. Anything other than "Wow, I've been thinking the same thing. Let's make this official!" will let you know that he is not really into you the same way. The risk is that once you have this conversation, things may turn awkward and not be the same anymore. 1
basil67 Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 I agree that you should talk to him. But be aware that as you've had your walls up, he doesn't know the 'real' you yet. You could possibly be holding back the bit he will love....or the bit which will drive him nutty. With this in mind, I'd relax a bit and show more of your true self before having that conversation. 1
Lotsgoingon Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 Hmmm ... I'm guessing that he might be feeling the same as you. Why don't you respond the next time he mentions sticking around. You'll need to say something like, "well that would be weird, because if you're around, I don't know if just what we're doing now would work." You can say that with confidence. But yeah, you need to have a conversation ... Just throw it out there at some point ... that you're feeling more than you anticipated. I mean, you might as well because otherwise, you're hiding and faking it. I often got in relationships as I was about to head out of town. I think I let down my guard because I knew I was leaving. Leaving town can give both people an opportunity to relax a bit---since the pressure is lifted. You don't have to beg or anything ... just a confident ... "It would be nice for you to be around, but I'm not sure what we're currently doing will work." Leaving the room for him to respond. My best is he is also feeling more. The job thing. If he was looking for a response (like you sensed) I don't think he'd look for that if he only had the physical interest in you. 1
elaine567 Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) I would wait till his plans are more finalised before saying anything. He may just move away anyway as soon as his lease is up. I think it is a bit of a bad sign that there is no communication between meets, which to me sounds more about convenience than any real feelings. "Men" are pretty good at compartmentalising and he has compartmentalised you. You have a nice time when together, but your impact into his other life is nil. Edited November 9, 2020 by elaine567 2
Wiseman2 Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) Unfortunately he's pretty much written in stone that this has an expiration date. (Doesn't matter what reasons he picked). That means enjoy it while it lasts...or cut your losses. It's really your call. Edited November 9, 2020 by Wiseman2 2
Weezy1973 Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 I think you have to ask yourself the question that if he were to stay, but still only wants to remain FWB, would you break things off to seek something more serious? Or would you still prefer to see him as a FWB knowing it won’t be anything more? In my mind, if you have “the talk” with him you have to be okay with losing what you have now. That’s the risk. There’s always risk, so the question is, is it worth it to you? That being said, I don’t see what other option you have. You won’t be happy just as FWB. You can’t really put the genie back in the bottle. 2
Blind-Sided Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 Well.... if he's moving away... what do you have to lose by asking? At worst... you cut it a couple months short. To me, it sounds like you really don't want to be in the FWB realm anyway. If he cuts it short... that leaves you open to finding a deeper connection with someone who wants to stick around. 1
Ruby Slippers Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 If it were me, I'd tell him I how feel. If he's up for real dating, great. If not, I'd be prepared to move on. If you don't end up finding what you really want, it will be very easy to find another casual partner. 4
smackie9 Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said: If it were me, I'd tell him I how feel. If he's up for real dating, great. If not, I'd be prepared to move on. If you don't end up finding what you really want, it will be very easy to find another casual partner. This^^^^you have no other choice but to suggest it goes to the next level and see what he thinks bout it...it's either a yes of no. If it's no at least you know where you stand and can remove yourself from this arrangement. 2
beentheredonethat77 Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 So personally i wouldn't say a word about how i felt yet -- i'd just steer the meetings to outside the bedroom and see his reaction. If he isn't interested in dates that involve getting to know you without the sexual component, that will tell you all you need to know and you can walk away. If he is enthusiastic about it, i'd go on a few dates and see if some sparks fly organically.. then i'd bring it up. 4
kismetkismet Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 I'd test the waters with suggesting more dates and quality time and see where it goes/how he reacts. Spending quality time outside of the house will help open up conversation a bit so you can really get to know each other better. Right now, the two of you don't really KNOW each other because you've compartmentalized your relationship - so who even knows if you'd really want to take things further? If he's receptive to that and you like spending proper time with him, then I'd open up the conversation. OR if he resists then you'll have your answer. 1
Aus Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 I loathe the fact that you go over to his place. Does he ever come to yours? Even if it is super casual (for now) surely he should make some sort of effort? This reeks of laziness and passive reciprocation, meaning while you make yourself so readily available, he just accepts all the attention, talks and sex coming his way, without lifting a finger... what does he do before 8/9 at night? meet others women for drinks? Sorry, I don't like this. It seems as though he doesn't respect you, but please respect yourself. The most "casual" of acquaintances should not get away with this lackluster behavior, nevermind someone that's been inside of you (apologies for being so crass, but hopefully the point comes across) If a man wants you, he will claim you. Withdraw your time, attention and sexual encounters, see if he steps up. Let him come to you, let him be emotionally vulnerable your job is to observe his actions and draw conclusions from it. Think of it this way, prostitutes charge for the services that us modern females provide for free. 5
Author caputo77 Posted November 9, 2020 Author Posted November 9, 2020 2 hours ago, beentheredonethat77 said: So personally i wouldn't say a word about how i felt yet -- i'd just steer the meetings to outside the bedroom and see his reaction. If he isn't interested in dates that involve getting to know you without the sexual component, that will tell you all you need to know and you can walk away. If he is enthusiastic about it, i'd go on a few dates and see if some sparks fly organically.. then i'd bring it up. 2 hours ago, kismetkismet said: I'd test the waters with suggesting more dates and quality time and see where it goes/how he reacts. Spending quality time outside of the house will help open up conversation a bit so you can really get to know each other better. Right now, the two of you don't really KNOW each other because you've compartmentalized your relationship - so who even knows if you'd really want to take things further? If he's receptive to that and you like spending proper time with him, then I'd open up the conversation. OR if he resists then you'll have your answer. I really, really like this idea from both of the above posters! Feels like a good way to communicate that I want things to move in a more defined direction without sounding like I'm presenting him with an ultimatum or demanding we be in a committed relationship NOW (which is not what I want). I just want to start slowly upping the level of investment, seeing if we're comfortable with that, and getting to know each other in a way that is more exploratory of a potential relationship rather than just explicitly casual. I guess I have to open up a bit and put my emotions on the line to some degree if I expect him to do so in return and this seems like a safe way to do so. 2 hours ago, Aus said: I loathe the fact that you go over to his place. Does he ever come to yours? Even if it is super casual (for now) surely he should make some sort of effort? This reeks of laziness and passive reciprocation, meaning while you make yourself so readily available, he just accepts all the attention, talks and sex coming his way, without lifting a finger... what does he do before 8/9 at night? meet others women for drinks? Sorry, I don't like this. It seems as though he doesn't respect you, but please respect yourself. The most "casual" of acquaintances should not get away with this lackluster behavior, nevermind someone that's been inside of you (apologies for being so crass, but hopefully the point comes across) If a man wants you, he will claim you. Withdraw your time, attention and sexual encounters, see if he steps up. Let him come to you, let him be emotionally vulnerable your job is to observe his actions and draw conclusions from it. Think of it this way, prostitutes charge for the services that us modern females provide for free. I get where you’re coming from, but I don’t know if it’s really fair to say he doesn’t make any effort just because I go to his place. I go there because I have a roommate and he doesn’t and it’s nice to have the place to ourselves. That’s really the main reason lol. Also, we live walking distance from each other (takes me about ten minutes to walk there) so it’s not absurdly inconvenient for me to go to his place. Since it has started getting dark earlier he has actually been walking to my place to “pick me up” and we walk back to his place together. Depending what time it is he’ll sometimes cook us dinner once I get there and he usually provides the alcohol and buys what he knows I will like. The nights I go over later it's usually because I either had class or he had late meetings. He also likes to work out for a while after he logs off work, I don't expect him to stop doing that just to see me earlier. We typically plan 2-3 days in advance because he knows I’m busy and I like to have my nights set up ahead of time. Overall, of the needs that I have communicated, he's accommodated all of them. It’s not like he’s calling me at 11 pm, I’m spending an absurd amount of money to uber over there, then he pounces on me the second I get there and kicks me out first thing the next morning lol. As far as casual situations go, I’d say he's shown an amount of effort I'm comfortable with. I’m not pretending that makes him some prince. I realize most of that is bare minimum. Could he make more effort? Well yeah, and so could I. That’s what I’m saying I want to experiment with from both sides, and am trying to discern if this situation can realistically move in that direction or not.
kismetkismet Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 Yaa I don't see the 8/9 thing as too much of a red flag, depending on your normal schedules. I never used to meet up with people before 8pm because the earliest I could get home from work was 6-7PM and I'd often want to go to the gym and/or have a shower and get ready before hanging out. I think the main thing here is to move your hang outs to outside the house. Go for dinner, go for a walk or hike on the weekend etc. (covid obviously makes this trickier), things that give you a chance to really get to know him. If that goes well and you still get along in the 'real world' THEN I'd have a conversation about it. I dated an emotionally unavailable guy for 1.5 yrs and let me tell you, the more serious things got, the less I liked him as a person. We'd have soo much fun when we were doing casual things, but then as soon as we'd do more serious dates or involve family/friends, he would get all abrasive, defensive, and uncomfortable and just was not fun to be around. I eventually realized that I ONLY liked his casual side and broke up with him. So it's not just about whether he's willing to make it more serious, but whether you yourself want to bother. 2
poppyfields Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, caputo77 said: But lately….I’ve been craving more. Again, I don’t really have feelings at this point, but I’m tired of keeping my walls up. I want to have deeper and more intimate conversations. I want to learn about him and share about myself. I also wouldn’t mind doing things that go beyond just having sex (like hiking together, exploring the city, going out to dinner, etc). So what's stopping you from introducing deeper topics into the conversation? And suggesting a hike or exploring the city? Why do you have to make a big presentation about it? By asking him what he wants or announcing to him that you're now wanting "more"? Why not let it all happen naturally and organically? Begin introducing deeper topics, and gauge his response. Is he open to such conversations? Suggest exploring the city and again gauge his response. I do not advise asking him anything pertaining to a relationship or wanting more or any of that. That just adds unnecessary pressure which is the kiss of death. Simply let it happen. If it's meant to be, and he feels the same way you do, which I am guessing he does otherwise he would not have told you about the LOCAL interviews he has lined up, it WILL happen. HE may even be the one to initiate the discussion. But please don't blow what sounds like a good thing between you. There is no law that states that an FWB relationship cannot evolve into an exclusive romantic one. It happens all the time! Just relax, and enjoy the process! Stop stressing and let it happen. Edited November 9, 2020 by poppyfields 2
poppyfields Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, caputo77 said: He’s been casually mentioning over the last few weeks that he has multiple job interviews lined up in the area and it’s starting to sound a bit more likely that he might be sticking around (kind of feel like he’s trying to gauge my reaction by continually bringing that up but that’s a whole other can of worms). Why is that a whole other can of worms? I think it's quite likely that is exactly why he brought it up. He's unsure of you, he's wondering about you, about how you feel. This is good! Keep him wondering. It's increasing his attraction and interest in you. I also think it's quite likely he's feeling more attached to you precisely because you have NOT been pushing for "more." So many women are like "where is this going? what does it mean"? Allowing their anxieties to drive their ship. From all I've read and heard, all that does is push men right out the proverbial door. I wouldn't recommend. Listen to and watch Esther Perel videos. Keep him moving towards you. That's how men fall in love and maintain their love, by continually moving towards you. You start pushing for more, or announcing your feelings before he's ready, you thwart this process. Allow him the space and time to move towards you, closer to you at his own pace. If it's too slow for you, and it's hurting you, then walk. Edited November 10, 2020 by poppyfields 1
Author caputo77 Posted November 10, 2020 Author Posted November 10, 2020 1 hour ago, poppyfields said: Just relax, and enjoy the process! Stop stressing and let it happen. Thanks Poppy, you give great advice This is just what I needed to hear, I've just been feeling anxious about it today and think I needed to take a step back and remember there's no rush to get anywhere with him. I definitely get impatient and need to work on that! You're right, the pushiness and wanting to know where things are going too soon has definitely been the downfall of many potential relationships I've had in the past. I'll also admit the low pressure environment of FWB has mostly been really enjoyable for me most of this time too. I appreciate getting to spend time with him without this pressure of wondering what's happening next, since I've mostly assumed he'll be leaving. It kind of bugs me that in many of my recent dating encounters, it feels like an expectation to discuss whether or not a relationship is on the table in very early stages. How would I know when I still barely know the person! Switching things up and not feeling that pressure has definitely helped me (an anxious and impatient person) stay grounded and live in the present more and just enjoy the fun we do have now without worrying about what comes next. Now that I'm reflecting on it more, I'm realizing it wasn't until he started bringing up the interviews and the possibility of him sticking around more that I've begun slipping back into my old anxious patterns. But I don't want to let them ruin what has been an enjoyable and fun experience for me. Maybe this feeling of starting to want a little more is just a more natural progression that I'm not used to since I usually go all in from day one (which obviously never works). Might be nice to slow things down and let him set the pace for once! We'll see, but thanks for calling me out and helping me identify the fallacies in some of my own thinking
Miss Spider Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 If you get asked that early in the relationship, just tell them the truth that you are open to a relationship with the right person. That’s all you have to say. But if you agree to something casual, you actually are saying that is what you want. I agree with the people who advised you to suggest activities more conducive to emotional bonding than just hooking up.
Allupinnit Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 I'm gonna go against the grain here just based on my own real life experiences and those of the women I know. When a man comes out the gate and tells you he doesn't want anything serious you need to believe him. Men rarely heat up from lukewarm and are VERY GOOD about being in the moment with you. He has made you a filler into his free time with sex and companionship that he enjoys with "no pressure" but is mainly concerned about himself and his career right now, which is probably why he mentions it, but we women like to read into everything. He's not thinking of you in the meantime which is why he's not texting you about your day. I dated a very sweet guy who told me he just wanted to have fun and I agreed. It went on for three months and I fell for him, HARD. He took me on real dates, drove 1.5 hours each way to see me on weekends, fixed stuff around the house, held my hand in public, had phenomenal sex - and when I asked if we were exclusive he reminded me of what he said upfront. Women lie to ourselves about our feelings - sex is meant to bond you. It's doing exactly what it's designed to do. Shutting off your feelings makes you a robot and you are not that. You DO want a relationship with him - AND THAT'S OK. It's why you are trying to engineer it into your favor by suggesting real dates with him. Just be honest. You are setting yourself upfront for a huge letdown by not bringing up the convo and cutting yourself loose before getting yourself even deeper in emotionally. If he's into you he would LOVE to be your boyfriend, and you deserve that after sleeping with someone for two months and getting attached. 4
elaine567 Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Allupinnit said: When a man comes out the gate and tells you he doesn't want anything serious you need to believe him. Men rarely heat up from lukewarm and are VERY GOOD about being in the moment with you. He has made you a filler into his free time with sex and companionship that he enjoys with "no pressure" but is mainly concerned about himself and his career right now, which is probably why he mentions it, but we women like to read into everything. He's not thinking of you in the meantime which is why he's not texting you about your day. ^^^ this.
Ruby Slippers Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 I agree that odds in her favor are slim. I think if he had any feelings for her, he would have stepped up his game long ago. But now she's in the situation and has these feelings, so it's a fork in the road. It's not going to do her any good to sit around waiting and hoping he steps it up. If he's not up for more, she'd just be spinning her wheels. So it's in her best interest to take the initiative and find out. There are stories on this forum of men who were fine with the woman initiating progression in the relationship and went along with it. I personally see no appeal in that, but hey, it takes all kinds. 1
ThereSheGoes Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 I'm just going to say this: From experience, a guy will bring up and 'expiration date' just to insure that things stay casual. They could be lying through their teeth, or the opportunity for them to move to this other city/state/country are slim, but they are going to put that expiration date there anyway, to make sure you understand that you are just some booty. Just keep that in mind when you make your choice. 1
poppyfields Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Allupinnit said: I'm gonna go against the grain here just based on my own real life experiences and those of the women I know. When a man comes out the gate and tells you he doesn't want anything serious you need to believe him. Men rarely heat up from lukewarm and are VERY GOOD about being in the moment with you. He has made you a filler into his free time with sex and companionship that he enjoys with "no pressure" but is mainly concerned about himself and his career right now, which is probably why he mentions it, but we women like to read into everything. He's not thinking of you in the meantime which is why he's not texting you about your day. I dated a very sweet guy who told me he just wanted to have fun and I agreed. It went on for three months and I fell for him, HARD. He took me on real dates, drove 1.5 hours each way to see me on weekends, fixed stuff around the house, held my hand in public, had phenomenal sex - and when I asked if we were exclusive he reminded me of what he said upfront. Women lie to ourselves about our feelings - sex is meant to bond you. It's doing exactly what it's designed to do. Shutting off your feelings makes you a robot and you are not that. You DO want a relationship with him - AND THAT'S OK. It's why you are trying to engineer it into your favor by suggesting real dates with him. Just be honest. You are setting yourself upfront for a huge letdown by not bringing up the convo and cutting yourself loose before getting yourself even deeper in emotionally. If he's into you he would LOVE to be your boyfriend, and you deserve that after sleeping with someone for two months and getting attached. Disagree. When I first met my ex, he told me he was NOT looking for a relationship, he had just ended one. Three nights later he asked me to be exclusive and we were together six years. It happens. Edited November 10, 2020 by poppyfields
Miss Spider Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) It happens. And I would say that it’s happened to me a few times. I told them I wasn’t looking for a relationship, but as time went on, we kind of just fell into the relationship or I agreed to it I would say though that it is very unusual for a person to go from categorizing someone as “casual” and then feel really excited/passionate about them later on... Usually it’s more a situation of complacency and convenience than really strong feelings . Edited November 10, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes 2
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