naomiclark7 Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 Hi everyone, I hope you're all staying safe and healthy. I'm here because I want to share my story and get some advice. Let me start from the beginning... Back in junior high, almost 11 years ago, I had a major crush on a guy I ended up dating very briefly and, since my family decided to move to the other side of the country, we stopped talking. I really liked him and he liked me back but I guess it wasn't in the stars back then. Fast forward to 2017, he finds me on social media and texts me - I was super happy to hear from him but, at the time, I had a boyfriend so I wasn't really interested in texting him. So I didn't hear from him until this September when he, once again, texted me on social media. He remembered I was a huge FC Barcelona fan so he sent me a photo related to that, alongside a message saying something like "I couldn't help but think of you when I saw this". This time, since I am single, I decided I would talk to him to catch up and see how he is doing. We reminisced about the good old high school days and I enjoyed talking to him again. After a few weeks of texting, we decided to finally meet up in the city I live (he lives 20 miles away) and we had so much fun. We have been going out every week since then and we have the best time and the best chemistry, and he is the sweetest when we are together. HOWEVER, turns out he is a major commitment phobe and he is pretty straightforward about it. He told me that he has a hard time committing due to a pretty bad relationship four years ago, and that he would understand if I decided to dump him. I asked him why he still wants to see me if he feels that way and if he knows he can't commit, and he was like "because I want to see what happens, maybe it will change". We had this conversation last night after I asked him where we're at and what his expectations are (maybe it was too soon after a few months?). And I gotta say, I got a little pissed but, mostly, insecure because I have no idea what to do or if there is anything I *can* do in order to make him commit? I know it sounds a bit crazy, but I really like this guy and I don't wanna push him further away (he is already texting less). Today he asked me if we could hang out next week but he got scared when I asked if I should cook for him because we joked about it last week. I am really confused, scared, and sad about this situation, and I feel so helpless. Should I change my behavior when I see him next week? Should I totally refrain from kissing or sex? I really like this guy and I don't wanna lose him. Please, let me know if you've had a similar experience or how all this sounds from a more objective point of view. THANKS!!
ThereSheGoes Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 If he's seeking therapy for his commitment issues? I honestly don't think this will go the way you wish for it to go. When you asked him why he would want to see you, and he said to see if his phobia will change, in way, he made you responsibility for his relationship maturity. It's not YOUR job to make HIM comfortable with trusting again. If after 4 years, he still hasn't found himself able to trust......he has some deep issues, other than just getting his heart broken. I would just leave this alone. There are so many other men who are willing to give you what you want, without all of the drama. 1
basil67 Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) He's not expecting anything to change. He just wants no strings dating/sex with you. If you're to change your behaviour in any way, it wold be best for you to just start treating him as a casual and enjoy it while it lasts. But make it clear to him that you will still be actively looking for partner who wants the same thing you do and you'll move on from him when you find it. Edited November 5, 2020 by basil67 1
Watercolors Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) When other people show you who they are believe them. He told you outright that he won't commit to you, so you have to believe him. To second guess his response the way that you are, is due to your desire for a different outcome. As Shakespeare wrote in Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2, "Why then, tis none to you, for there is nothing good or bad, but thinking makes it so." To paraphrase that scene, Shakespeare's character talks about how people are prisoners of their own thoughts, and that when confronted with a stressful situation; the urge is to seek blissful ignorance instead of dealing with the ugly reality in front of them. You have two choices as I see it. You can accept (the ugly reality of) him (the commitment phobe). Or you can break things off with him, to make yourself more available to date men who are emotionally available to you, willing to commit themselves to you long-term. Anything in between that, is just blissful ignorance on your part. Because your thinking makes it so. There are far more emotionally available men in this world than this one guy. You can choose to make yourself free and available to meet a more emotionally mature and available partner, or you can stay with a man who will never be the kind of man you want him to be. Because as much as you want to, you cannot change him. Edited November 5, 2020 by Watercolors 1
poppyfields Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 55 minutes ago, Watercolors said: When other people show you who they are believe them. He told you outright that he won't commit to you, so you have to believe him. To second guess his response the way that you are, is due to your desire for a different outcome. As Shakespeare wrote in Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2, "Why then, tis none to you, for there is nothing good or bad, but thinking makes it so." To paraphrase that scene, Shakespeare's character talks about how people are prisoners of their own thoughts, and that when confronted with a stressful situation; the urge is to seek blissful ignorance instead of dealing with the ugly reality in front of them. You have two choices as I see it. You can accept (the ugly reality of) him (the commitment phobe). Or you can break things off with him, to make yourself more available to date men who are emotionally available to you, willing to commit themselves to you long-term. Anything in between that, is just blissful ignorance on your part. Because your thinking makes it so. There are far more emotionally available men in this world than this one guy. You can choose to make yourself free and available to meet a more emotionally mature and available partner, or you can stay with a man who will never be the kind of man you want him to be. Because as much as you want to, you cannot change him. Well said WC. In fact, this may be the best post I've ever read from you and has the potential to help many people. The reference to Hamlet was brilliant and so true! 1
OnlyHonesty Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 He's told you he is not avaliable for commitment. Therefore you continuing to pursue might suggest you are also emotionally unavailable... 1
Watercolors Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 1 hour ago, poppyfields said: Well said WC. In fact, this may be the best post I've ever read from you and has the potential to help many people. The reference to Hamlet was brilliant and so true! Thanks Poppy! I was reading Shakespeare earlier (for something else, not LS ) and Hamlet just came to mind when I read the OP's post.
ExpatInItaly Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 He's told you what's up - he's not in a place to commit. His behaviour is showing you that he hasn't changed ("scared" because you want to cook) so you're going to get even more hurt if you continue to see him. I would refrain from continuing to get together with him. He isn't going to become the boyfriend you are seeking.
Miss Spider Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) The anxiety of failing or being failed makes it preferable to not have any expectations put forth in the first place. That’s what I think of when I think of fear of commitment. If it’s really a fear of commitment(in this case, to a relationship?), there’s not much you can do because that’s tied into their personal set of beliefs. They are the ones that need to work on changing those. Your best shot is walking away and hoping their fear of not having you in their life is greaterh than the fear of the the things that come with commitment. Suggest you do the same thing even if it’s not a fear and they just don’t want to do it. Don’t waste your time Edited November 5, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes
Wiseman2 Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 Sorry to hear that. He is telling you straight up that this is casual hookups for him. There's no such "diagnosis" as commitmentphobia. He's just not that into you, is in another relationship or on/off with someone. He can only string you along like this if you allow it. Stop inviting him over for sex. Stop trying to make him into a BF. 1
poppyfields Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said: There's no such "diagnosis" as commitmentphobia. He's just not that into you, is in another relationship or on/off with someone. Actually there is Wiseman. Commitmentphobia is sort of a catch-all phrase but it's a real thing similar to claustrophobia. Except instead of fearing being "boxed in" within an enclosed physical space, it's a fear of being "boxed in" or trapped within an exclusive committed relationship. "Anxious avoidant" is another way of defining, perhaps more accepted. People like this can suffer the same symptoms as any other phobia or fear - extreme anxiety being the most pronounced. My brother has been "diagnosed" by both his therapist and medical doctor (psychiatrist). There is no medication for it (other than anxiety meds but they won't control the fear), only psychotherapy. These fears are deep rooted. Black and white thinking is "he's just not into you." But that's inaccurate as in many cases, the more "into you," someone is, the greater the fear, the greater the anxiety. They will push people away or run away. Or begin finding fault with the person and suddenly lose interest. I know it goes against logic, but I've witnessed by dear brother doing this for years, it's a real thing. He's aware of it himself and manages it so as to avoid hurting or misleading others. By being honest with them and having casual relationships. Tons of books and articles written about it, by reputable doctors and therapists. Edited November 5, 2020 by poppyfields 1
Fletch Lives Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 30 minutes ago, poppyfields said: Actually there is Wiseman. Commitmentphobia is sort of a catch-all phrase but it's a real thing similar to claustrophobia. Except instead of fearing being "boxed in" within an enclosed physical space, it's a fear of being "boxed in" or trapped within an exclusive committed relationship. "Anxious avoidant" is another way of defining, perhaps more accepted. People like this can suffer the same symptoms as any other phobia or fear - extreme anxiety being the most pronounced. My brother has been "diagnosed" by both his therapist and medical doctor (psychiatrist). There is no medication for it (other than anxiety meds but they won't control the fear), only psychotherapy. These fears are deep rooted. Black and white thinking is "he's just not into you." But that's inaccurate as in many cases, the more "into you," someone is, the greater the fear, the greater the anxiety. They will push people away or run away. Or begin finding fault with the person and suddenly lose interest. I know it goes against logic, but I've witnessed by dear brother doing this for years, it's a real thing. He's aware of it himself and manages it so as to avoid hurting or misleading others. By being honest with them and having casual relationships. Tons of books and articles written about it, by reputable doctors and therapists. We call it insanity. It sounds like he's on the rebound and not ready to love a new woman yet (a temporary form of insanity). He won't change for you. 2
poppyfields Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Fletch Lives said: We call it insanity. No they don't. Not by good, qualified, reputable therapists. Quack therapists maybe. Read up about it, learn, grow, expand your mind. Get rid of black and white thinking. Edited November 5, 2020 by poppyfields 1
Fletch Lives Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 Dating is complicated enough - I'll leave that to the Shrinks! All you have to know is, they have to be sane to be a good match. Let their counselor deal with them - if you are smart, you'll run.
elaine567 Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 Whether he has a real problem with commitment or he is too damaged by his last relationship or he has found a way of managing women's expectations..., it is immaterial. He is NOT bf material, and you would be a fool to waste time sticking around to watch him finally go off with someone he IS interested in, or watch him slowly descend into a hyper anxiety state due to "the fear"... He told you upfront what he is like, so it is your responsibility to listen to what he is in fact telling you. Too many choose to ignore or dismiss such warnings as they know better or their ego thinks that they are just sooo special "he will change for me..." NO, people rarely change, he told you that for a reason. Stay away. 4 2
Wiseman2 Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 1 hour ago, poppyfields said: Actually there is Wiseman. Commitmentphobia Please provide the link from the DSM5 1
Fletch Lives Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Whether he has a real problem with commitment or he is too damaged by his last relationship or he has found a way of managing women's expectations..., it is immaterial. He is NOT bf material Thank you Elaine. 1
poppyfields Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, elaine567 said: Whether he has a real problem with commitment or he is too damaged by his last relationship or he has found a way of managing women's expectations..., it is immaterial. He is NOT bf material, and you would be a fool to waste time sticking around to watch him finally go off with someone he IS interested in, or watch him slowly descend into a hyper anxiety state due to "the fear"... He told you upfront what he is like, so it is your responsibility to listen to what he is in fact telling you. Too many choose to ignore or dismiss such warnings as they know better or their ego thinks that they are just sooo special "he will change for me..." NO, people rarely change, he told you that for a reason. Stay away. I agree. When people show you who they are, believe them the first time - Maya Angelou. He told you he doesn't want a relationship, he told you he has issues with commitment. Believe him! People don't make this shyt up, fear of close intimate relationships is very real to many people. Don't mess around with that hoping he'll change or your love will change him, not gonna happen. No way, no how. Take care of you. Love yourself first. Edited November 5, 2020 by poppyfields 1
smackie9 Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) TBH I think he's just full of it. He has made the decision already he is not looking at this as anything serious. He's just passive aggressively passing the buck, because he knows where he stands. And what's worse he's playing the victim, just so he doesn't look like a total A hole. If you enjoy his company, then fine, he can make a good fair weather friend...date other men. Edited November 5, 2020 by smackie9 3 1
Watercolors Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, smackie9 said: TBH I think he's just full of it. He has made the decision already he is not looking at this as anything serious. He's just passive aggressively passing the buck, because he knows where he stands. And what's worse he's playing the victim, just so he doesn't look like a total A hole. If you enjoy his company, then fine, he can make a good fair weather friend...date other men. +1. Guys like this who play the victim are wolves in sheep clothing, see: player, narcissist, general d-bag. Whatever label you slap on him, you need to accept the fact that he just isn’t interested in you as a long-term girlfriend and it’s possible that his whole committment-phobe story is just hogwash. Edited November 5, 2020 by Watercolors 2
poppyfields Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) Anything is possible, not sure why he'd make it up though. It's not a positive or flattering thing to admit about oneself. Nor does it change the outcome - he doesn't want a relationship, period, end of. NEXT. Edited November 5, 2020 by poppyfields 1
poppyfields Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) Hey WC, my quote - "when someone shows you who they are, believe them" - I took that from one of your posts yesterday, in this thread. The one wherein you quoted Hamlet which I thought was brilliant. This guy is flat out showing the OP who he is, he told her. No need to second guess or come up with alternative theories. Bad or good. If he's a CP or avoidant, that's bad enough! Just walk. Edited November 5, 2020 by poppyfields 1
Watercolors Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 19 minutes ago, poppyfields said: Hey WC, my quote - "when someone shows you who they are, believe them" - I took that from one of your posts yesterday, in this thread. The one wherein you quoted Hamlet which I thought was brilliant. This guy is flat out showing the OP who he is, he told her. No need to second guess or come up with alternative theories. Bad or good. If he's a CP or avoidant, that's bad enough! Just walk. Yes, I saw that! I love Shakespeare. Always have. Yeah, this guy is wasting the OP’s time the way he is lying to her about why he won’t (not “can’t” because he clearly doesn’t want to) commit to her. It’s hard when you think you have great chemistry with the person, until you realize he is just projecting back to you your own chemistry. If that makes sense? I think it’s called “mirroring.” That move is standard for the players. The way they mirror your level of interest back to you, fooling you to think his interest in genuine when he’s just pretending the whole time.
Wiseman2 Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 17 hours ago, naomiclark7 said: He told me that he has a hard time committing due to a pretty bad relationship four years ago, and that he would understand if I decided to dump him. I asked him why he still wants to see me if he feels that way and if he knows he can't commit, and he was like "because I want to see what happens, maybe it will change". This is not a disease. This is string-along talk. 2
stillafool Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 I don't think he's a bad guy for letting you know he is not into commitment. That is his choice. I used to be like that. Now if his choice doesn't line up with your values then you need to exit asap before you fall deeper for him. Be thankful that he didn't string you along thinking you were in a relationship. You're not, just casually dating. If you want more and know he does not just let him go. 2
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