Why does dating have to be so brutal?

[Ruby Slippers]

13 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

Do you seriously bother looking at bios?  I doubt you look at nearly enough bios to say with any conviction that you give many of the not-so-physically-attractive guys a real shot.

I never ever swiped right / liked a man without looking at his profile first. I have 0% interest in casual involvements, so I don't care how hot he is if he has no substance. There are some smoking hot men on dating sites that I'm pretty sure most any woman could hook up with if she were so inclined. But most women are looking for so much more.

[poppyfields]

24 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I have 0% interest in casual involvements, so I don't care how hot he is if he has no substance. There are some smoking hot men on dating sites that I'm pretty sure most any woman could hook up with if she were so inclined. But most women are looking for so much more.

Same for me Ruby.  And he should know how to articulate himself well and understand proper sentence structure, lol (one of my peeves).   I encountered SO many men who it was obvious were clueless how to structure a simple sentence OR were too lazy to proof read.  Immediate turn off.   Laziness is one of the biggest turn offs for me.

Once past that, then I look to see if what he wrote was appealing to me.   If so, I responded back, we began chatting and I “got a feeling” about him.  The majority I did not - next. 

All my friends feel essentially the same.  I have one friend, a former model, who is absolutely gorgeous.  She had her pick of the lot, and all things being equal, chose a lesser attractive man (classically speaking) and began dating him.   She told me, like me, she looks for substance and that "feeling" or somethin somethin that can’t really be defined as it’s so personal and subjective.  They are still dating and extremely happy.

Edited November 4, 2020 by poppyfields

[Trail Blazer]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Yeah I guess everyone is different and @TB not sure what women you’ve spoken to or referring to, but for me and many women I know, I don’t go for just straight looks (all things being equal).  In fact when I used to work in the entertainment industry in NYC where there were tons of classically good looking guys, I had models hitting on me and wasn’t interested in ANY of them, literally.   

Ever see the movie Sleepless in Seattle where Tom Hanks character is telling his son, when it comes to dating, I like to “get a feeling” about a woman?  That’s how I feel about dating too, I simply “get a feeling” about them and go from there.  And as odd as this might sound, I am able to “get that feeling” from interacting on line too.  I did with my fiancé, and it was almost immediate.  Just from talking/ interacting on line, and it was mutual. 

He looks sort of like Richard Gere about 20 years ago, but that is not what attracted me.   There were men that I would consider better looking who hit me up (again all things being equal) but there was just something about my fiancé's look that clicked with me.  That somethin somethin as they say.

I’ve been attracted to men that some of my friends thought were no great shakes at all.  But again, for me it was just that somethin somethin, it’s hard to define.   Something about his look that was appealing to me, that I found attractive.  None of my friends could see it, but didn't matter.  I did.  

There will always be outliers, but the proof is in the pudding when it comes to attractive people's ability to attract.  Don't get me wrong, I understand that attraction for women is more nuanced and a lot less straight forward for women than it generally is for men.

Having said that, whilst a generically handsome man might not appeal to one woman, on average he's always going to appeal to a greater percentage than an average or below average looking guy who may possess some other great qualities.

It's no coincidence that buddies of mine who are on the better looking end of the spectrum have had the ability to pull some great looking women.  The average looking buddies of mine have, well, average or not-so good looking partners.  As awful as that may sound, it's the truth.

Yes, I've spoken with plenty of women about OLD, especially one in particular whom I ended up in a FWB-arrangement for a while.  I'm always fascinated about what the opposite sex has to say and how they think.

I know that women don't have to have the best looking guy going around to feel like they've landed a great guy.  However, in my experience, subjectivity varies at the higher end of the spectrum, but as the looks scale descends towards the more average looking guys, womens' subjective opinions become aligned with the objective view.

In other words, whilst some women might not find a Brad Pitt looking guy super-attractive, the general consensus would be that he's universally attractive.  Just like some women might find a Steve Tyler looking guy attractive, the general consensus would be that he isn't. 

But, to that one particular woman, Steve has something about him which Brad doesn't, which actually turns the tables around.  However, on balance, Brad will receive more right swipes than Steve, every single time.

 

[Trail Blazer]

34 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I never ever swiped right / liked a man without looking at his profile first. I have 0% interest in casual involvements, so I don't care how hot he is if he has no substance. There are some smoking hot men on dating sites that I'm pretty sure most any woman could hook up with if she were so inclined. But most women are looking for so much more.

How detailed are you expecting his profile to be?  I never really liked talking about myself much in dating bios.  However, I did fill out the important stuff as to not look like I was concealing anything.

[Ruby Slippers]

I think you're way too focused on looks. Of course, the best-looking men and women have the most dating options. But that doesn't necessarily make it easier to find the right person.

How the guy looks is pretty far down the list of what matters to me, and I've always been like this. Naturally, there needs to be a baseline of attraction, but I find lots of men attractive. He doesn't have to look like a model. A guy in decent shape who presents himself decently and has good manners generally does it for me.

Most people want to be with someone they think is cute who thinks they're cute. Many studies have shown that relationships go best and last longest when the man and woman are in the same league looks-wise.

[Ruby Slippers]

3 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

How detailed are you expecting his profile to be?  I never really liked talking about myself much in dating bios.  However, I did fill out the important stuff as to not look like I was concealing anything.

Filling out the info fields and writing 2-3 short paragraphs about what he's into, what he's looking for, and the like is plenty for me. Basically, I'm checking to make sure he's single, age-appropriate, we have something in common, he can string together a few sentences, and his attitude is good. If all that looks good and he sends me a decent message, I'll reply and we'll see how it goes. 

It's agonizing to write a dating profile about yourself  I learned to keep it short, upbeat, and to the point.

[Miss Spider]

5 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I think you're way too focused on looks. Of course, the best-looking men and women have the most dating options. But that doesn't necessarily make it easier to find the right person.

How the guy looks is pretty far down the list of what matters to me, and I've always been like this. Naturally, there needs to be a baseline of attraction, but I find lots of men attractive. He doesn't have to look like a model. A guy in decent shape who presents himself decently and has good manners generally does it for me.

Most people want to be with someone they think is cute who thinks they're cute. Many studies have shown that relationships go best and last longest when the man and woman are in the same league looks-wise.

I feel the same way and I completely agree. The guys I’ve been into the most /dated have all been rather ordinary looking with the exception of one. 
 

[Miss Spider]

I found this summary of a data point in an okcupid study 

[quote]“As you can see from the gray line, women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium. Very harsh. On the other hand, when it comes to actual messaging, women shift their expectations only just slightly ahead of the curve, which is a healthier pattern than guys’ pursuing the all-but-unattainable. But with the basic ratings so out-of-whack, the two curves together suggest some strange possibilities for the female thought process, the most salient of which is that the average-looking woman has convinced herself that the vast majority of males aren’t good enough for her, but she then goes right out and messages them anyway.”[/quote]

[Trail Blazer]

12 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I think you're way too focused on looks. Of course, the best-looking men and women have the most dating options. But that doesn't necessarily make it easier to find the right person.

How the guy looks is pretty far down the list of what matters to me, and I've always been like this. Naturally, there needs to be a baseline of attraction, but I find lots of men attractive. He doesn't have to look like a model. A guy in decent shape who presents himself decently and has good manners generally does it for me.

Most people want to be with someone they think is cute who thinks they're cute. Many studies have shown that relationships go best and last longest when the man and woman are in the same league looks-wise.

I'm focusing on the looks aspect in OLD platforms as a sub-topic pertinent to the OP's post.  I don't believe that I am way too focused on looks from a personal perspective.  Having said that, I'm not going to downplay its importance in the OLD strategy I've adopted when I was single.

[poppyfields]

6 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

I feel the same way and I completely agree. The guys I’ve been into the most /dated have all been rather ordinary looking with the exception of one. 
 

Which speaks volumes considering most folks would consider you a 9-10. 

Edited November 4, 2020 by poppyfields

[Allupinnit]

@Trail Blazer - forgive me but you're bordering on manslplaining.  Of course attractive people have more options - that's not rocket science.  But here you have several women with years of online dating under their belts telling you what we look for and you're just "not buying it." 

I definitely read bios when I did OLD.  

[Miss Spider]

24 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Which speaks volumes considering most folks would consider you a 9-10. 

aww. not really...but that’s awfully kind of you to say thanks 

 

25 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

[CLS63AMG]

7 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

@Trail Blazer - forgive me but you're bordering on manslplaining.  Of course attractive people have more options - that's not rocket science.  But here you have several women with years of online dating under their belts telling you what we look for and you're just "not buying it." 

I definitely read bios when I did OLD.  

He has no game (like most guys) so he defaults back to the looks argument.  Its much more elaborate than that!

[Miss Spider]

20 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

@Trail Blazer - forgive me but you're bordering on manslplaining.  Of course attractive people have more options - that's not rocket science.  But here you have several women with years of online dating under their belts telling you what we look for and you're just "not buying it." 

I definitely read bios when I did OLD.  

Yes all the research has suggested women do care about bios. Also, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve sent a friend a pic of a guy like, “isn’t he fine?” And she says, “eh... he’s. okay, but this one’s way hotter ” and it’s a pic of some ‘meh’ looking man( to me) 

 

Cant account for taste

Edited November 4, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Allupinnit]

2 minutes ago, CLS63AMG said:

He has no game (like most guys) so he defaults back to the looks argument.  Its much more elaborate than that!

And what he knows of "women's opinions."  Oh please tell me, because I SURELY don't know my own mind! 

[Trail Blazer]

3 minutes ago, CLS63AMG said:

He has no game (like most guys) so he defaults back to the looks argument.  Its much more elaborate than that!

Game?  "Game" as in the term widely used by the PUA industry?  Good luck finding common ground with the women on here using that terminology.

My opinions on the "looks argument" is general and not colored by any personal biases.  You've clearly read what I've written with the intention of responding, not understanding.

You are right, though.  I don't have game because.  I don't have game because I've never needed to have game.  Not when I'm always the one who's being pursued.  

[Trail Blazer]

17 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

And what he knows of "women's opinions."  Oh please tell me, because I SURELY don't know my own mind! 

You seem rather defensive and/or have a chip on your shoulder about something.  Why?

We're having a discussion here and I've imparted my views/experiences.  I haven't "not bought" the experiences of other women here, but I've certainly had my own discussions with women IRL and learnt a fair bit over the journey.

It takes many people to make the world and having a viewpoint of the opposite sex isn't wrong.  I'm sure you harbor a lot of opinions about then from your own experience, whether they be good, bad, or indifferent.

So, tell me, what is it that motivates you to swipe left or right on a guy?  I'm all ears...

[ThereSheGoes]

2 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Do you seriously bother looking at bios?  I doubt you look at nearly enough bios to say with any conviction that you give many of the not-so-physically-attractive guys a real shot.

I can understand why you wouldn't go for the shirtless ab guys.  I do know that it turns off a lot of women.  It's not my thing to do, either.  Whether I have a body for it or not, every one of my OLD photos had me fully clothed!

I'm surprised that to hear that your opinion is that unattractive guys don't put effort into their bio.  I would have thought it'd be the other way around.  Unattractive guys do everything they can to make their profilr as appealing as possible, while attractive guys don't really have to.

From my own experience, I never bothered reading bios until after I'd match with someone.  The very odd few profiles I may have looked before swiping, but that was either someone I was extremely attracted to, or someone who I was on the borderline of swiping either left or right.  Something in their bio may way me either way.

I personally never bothered with a bio.  Other than mentioning that I work out of town a lot and if you're someone who needs to be joined at the hip, please next me.  I still received more than enough matches to keep me out of trouble (or get me into trouble)!

I do actually read them! Because like someone else said, I have a mission, I'm not looking for casual, I'm not looking to be a third, I'm not looking to be a sugar baby or a Dom. Lol. Many of times I've matched with someone, and they go 'Have you read my profile?' and when I look, it is the complete opposite of what I am looking for, lol. And then I am like.....well, wait. Did YOU not read MY profile? Because I blatantly stated I was looking for a relationship. So we're both not reading profiles? Lol.

And you would think 'unattractive' men would put effort in to it, but....not really. From my experience, the shirtless guy hiking through Tibet is the one with the most in his bio. I'm still swiping left on him because, abs.

[Trail Blazer]

1 minute ago, ThereSheGoes said:

I do actually read them! Because like someone else said, I have a mission, I'm not looking for casual, I'm not looking to be a third, I'm not looking to be a sugar baby or a Dom. Lol. Many of times I've matched with someone, and they go 'Have you read my profile?' and when I look, it is the complete opposite of what I am looking for, lol. And then I am like.....well, wait. Did YOU not read MY profile? Because I blatantly stated I was looking for a relationship. So we're both not reading profiles? Lol.

And you would think 'unattractive' men would put effort in to it, but....not really. From my experience, the shirtless guy hiking through Tibet is the one with the most in his bio. I'm still swiping left on him because, abs.

So, if it's not clearly observable (or at worst somewhat ambigious) as to what they're after, it's an instant next?

I cannot recall exactly what I set my status to on the dating apps I used.  I recall for PoF I did not say I was "looking for casual" or "looking for a relationship" because I was somewhat in the middle.  So, I made that clear in my bio, that I was open to either.

I never read profiles while swiping, but I did once I matched with somebody.  I generally didn't find anything in their profile would see me unmatch them then and there, but things like location might change from the geographical location we initially matched.  That can change one's attitude about pursuing a LTR.

Plenty of women read bios, but I'm not sure if they've read them before or after I've been matched with.  Like I've mentioned earlier, the only thing I've ever written in my bio is that I work away a lot, so I've had a few women ask right off the bat what I do for work. 

[Waldo P Schmeer]

On 11/1/2020 at 7:27 PM, Myasylum said:

You know... one reason I didn't want to get divorced is because I knew it would be tough out here... 

     Now here I am and it's far more brutal than I even thought!

    Not only is it hard just to meet someone as it is,  but when you do you have to hope they aren't crazy, or drag all this drama around with them. 

    They say there are millions of fish in the sea... but I don't see any. 

    It's just crazy out there. You start to wonder if it's even worth while at all. 

   Grow out my hair/beard and live my days out in the woods.

    I guess the trick is not to take anything personally and just move on.  Idk? If your not Brad Pitt I feel for ya' all.

Haha!! "If you're not Brad Pitt I feel for ya' all." <-- my life story in one sentence.

I don't have advice for you friend, because you and I are in the same exact boat here. I can commiserate with you though and if we were in person, I'd buy us a round of suds. 

One of the things I find particularly difficult is that no one talks on the phone anymore. I come from a time where if men and women liked each other and didn't live together, then you'd call each other at night- even watch movies on the same channel over the phone haha!!! But you just had to be connected. But now, only texting is allowed. You're supposed to build a relationship with a character limit haha!!!

Keep punching away at it boss. You did something right at some point in time. And even if we're broken clocks, we still gotta be right at least 2 times a day. 

[elaine567]

23 hours ago, Waldo P Schmeer said:

I come from a time where if men and women liked each other and didn't live together, then you'd call each other at night- even watch movies on the same channel over the phone haha!!! But you just had to be connected.

Ok, but surely the women you are thinking of dating come from the same time period, and have the same mindset, no?
Or are you chasing after younger women?

Edited November 6, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[elaine567]

8 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

From my experience, the shirtless guy hiking through Tibet is the one with the most in his bio. I'm still swiping left on him because, abs

That is because he is "awake", is motivated to actually do something, and actually has something to put in his bio.
He may or may not be your cup of tea, abs and muscles do not do it for some women, but so many men have no bio or just a short bio because they have literally nothing to put in it.
OR they are scared to reveal too much in case it puts off any woman they may attract...

[Fletch Lives]

I just want Mother Teresa in a super-model wrapper. Is this too much to ask for?!

[mark clemson]

16 hours ago, CLS63AMG said:

He has no game (like most guys) so he defaults back to the looks argument.  Its much more elaborate than that!

I respectfully disagree. @Trail Blazer has a marriage under his belt as well as a solid track record of getting interested dates, some of which is documented in his posts on this site. And now a nice relationship with LT potential going.  So, plenty of "game," at least in the ways that actually count. He may not understand women's decision making processes as well as he could, but - how many men actually do??  (And I won't claim to either.)

Edited November 5, 2020 by mark clemson

[Allupinnit]

17 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Game?  "Game" as in the term widely used by the PUA industry?  Good luck finding common ground with the women on here using that terminology.

My opinions on the "looks argument" is general and not colored by any personal biases.  You've clearly read what I've written with the intention of responding, not understanding.

You are right, though.  I don't have game because.  I don't have game because I've never needed to have game.  Not when I'm always the one who's being pursued.  

ALWAYS being pursued?  LOL ok man.  I don't have a chip on my shoulder, I just have a a sensitive BS meter.  

I wonder why Brad Pitt is always held up as the standard by men who are so obsessed with looks.  Give me a Tom Hardy any day.