I've been stupid and ran away

[poppyfields]

I read Libby's post as tongue-n- cheek, and Harry and Mehgan have homes both in Malibu CA and the UK.

They split their time between both. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by poppyfields

[Timshel]

19 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I read Libby's post as tongue-n- cheek, and Harry and Mehgan have homes both in Malibu CA and the UK.

They split their time between both. 

Of course it's fine that you read Libby's post 'tongue-n-cheek' Poppy, to each their own. 

To be accurate, Harry and Meghan do not 'split their time between both,' as they have given the keys to Frogmore to Princess Eugenie and her husband Jack Brooksbank. To be clear, these are news articles of any person who reads, I am not a royal watcher. In keeping up with the world, this is basic knowledge.

As is the class system in the U.K.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Timshel

[poppyfields]

25 minutes ago, Timshel said:

To be accurate, Harry and Meghan do not 'split their time between both,' as they have given the keys to Frogmore to Princess Eugenie and her husband Jack Brooksbank. To be clear, these are news articles of any person who reads, I am not a royal watcher. In keeping up with the world, this is basic knowledge.

I see, well then apparently I lack basic knowledge!  My bad, apologies for posting inaccurate information.

Edited November 29, 2020 by poppyfields

[Trail Blazer]

7 hours ago, Timshel said:

Really? Are Americans the golden egged geese? Of course you are aware that Harry and Meghan live in California.  The monarchy, which by your words do not seek power because they are born to it and simply must only do their duty, as a weary burden, of course...have historically colonized half the world.  Toryism is probably the American equivalent of far right politics.

How simple and condescending to suggest that tourism in the UK would revolve around television shows. No thank you.

Bro, lighten up!  I'm pretty sure that @Libby1 was merely, how you Brits would put it, "just 'avin' a laff"

[Trail Blazer]

19 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

Great post TB. Very funny. 
 

Yes where I’m from in England some folk  do not pronounce “th” and  substitute with “f”.  Y is also mis pronounced and the combination sounds ghastly in my opinion. However I’ve no doubt it may sound interesting to others. 
 

Admittedly I’ve said “innit” a few times. It feels quite liberating but it again it sounds dreadful. NB “innit” is said In substitute to “isn’t it?”  But generally “innit” is not a question, it’s a lifestyle .
 

Now if someone refers to a “Hospical” then please run away immediately, if this person is not a child. A child can be forgiven for such a pronunciation, an adult cannot

Oh yeah, I know that "innit" is an erroneous portmanteau of "isn't it" just like "ain't" is to "is not", except ain't seems to be used everywhere where English is spoken, yet "innit" seems to be confined to certain demographics of the U.K.

I assume "Hospical" is meant to be hospital?  I've never heard someone substitute the t for a c, however many kids past and present would say "hosdibal" or "basgheddi" for spaghetti.

[Libby1]

3 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Bro, lighten up!  I'm pretty sure that @Libby1 was merely, how you Brits would put it, "just 'avin' a laff"

She's obsessed with Meghan Markle, and either won't believe I'm not - or is hacked off that I'm not.  Also, she has some sort of issue with me and will take any excuse to have a go.  But yes you're right...I was joking.  I have received a great deal of friendship and support from Americans over the years.  And if any of them are reading this, they will also know very well that I was joking.  

Edited November 30, 2020 by Libby1

[Angelle]

11 hours ago, Timshel said:

Really? Are Americans the golden egged geese? Of course you are aware that Harry and Meghan live in California.  The monarchy, which by your words do not seek power because they are born to it and simply must only do their duty, as a weary burden, of course...have historically colonized half the world.  Toryism is probably the American equivalent of far right politics.

How simple and condescending to suggest that tourism in the UK would revolve around television shows. No thank you.

She was only joking, but some tourism does revolve around Harry Potter, and the royal family. Windsor castle, the Tower of London, Westminster Abbey, the changing of the guard, the parts of the UK that were used for filming. I'll try to remember to find a link about a street in London, that I saw the other day. I've been feeling really homesick, and am now getting bombarded with pictures from "suggested accounts" to follow on instagram. I have American friends who travelled around the UK, and loved it. They want to go back, when covid is over with. 

The Tories are similar to the "the right" over here, they aren't even the far-right in either country, anymore, but that is off-topic here. I don't pay much attention to the royals, but I know people who are obsessed with them. Americans, they hate Meghan Markle, or love her - I remember massive comment sections on social media, whenever they were in the news. I guess that happened again recently. 

[Angelle]

On 11/6/2020 at 3:51 PM, RileyG said:

Some Brits aren't too bright themself.

When my mum was in the hospital, I joked to her that we could no longer be considered smart, based on our accents alone, because of Brexit. It had just happened. But it was just a joke. People all over the world, have felt disdain for the United States, it isn't just the Brits. I happen to know quite a few who love the US, though. I also remember my dad visiting, and people going all dreamy over his accent. Not just women. 

[Angelle]

On 11/4/2020 at 9:43 AM, RileyG said:

I mean the British ways and you'd think languages are the same but they are not.

I asked for chips. I got french fries. I didn't want french fries.

 

Crisps are chips. I guess you know that by now. 

I've just seen your first post to the thread. I'm so sorry that happened to you. Maybe you can talk to a lawyer about something similar to "revenge porn"? That's what it sounds like, if your ex gave supposed friends those pictures. Those people definitely aren't your friends, they sound like they never made it past middle school in mentality and behaviour. Your fiance sounds like a good guy, from what you've said. 

I don't know how the conversation got onto hating or loving the Brits, when this seems to involve friends from the United States. 

[Angelle]

On 11/5/2020 at 4:24 PM, Timshel said:

'England is the most class-ridden country under the sun. It is a land of snobbery and privilege, ruled largely by the old and the silly.'  George Orwell

It is a country where a homeless pauper with blue blood will be held in higher esteem than a middle (working) class millionaire.  They do still have the colonist monarchy.

It would be difficult as an American to advise the social nuances of the U.K., it's a real thing. 

Take advisement from your fiance regarding his social circle but never feel less than Riley, adapt certainly, and educate yourself of the culture in which you live.

Wow, you really don't like England, do you? I don't remember it being that way. It sounded like the woman was a little bitter, when she made the comment about Riley. Bitterness is something that's seen the world over. 

[Libby1]

21 minutes ago, Angelle said:

Wow, you really don't like England, do you? I don't remember it being that way. It sounded like the woman was a little bitter, when she made the comment about Riley. Bitterness is something that's seen the world over. 

Today's class system is primarily influenced by the divide between those whose parents have enough money to send them to exclusive boarding schools like Eton, and who go on to study at Oxford or Cambridge (which will give them connections and prepare them to go into positions of power)...and everybody else.  A person doesn't need to have blue blood to go to Eton or other boarding schools where they'll soon pick up a convincingly upper class sounding accent and accompanying mannerisms.  They just need the cash to attend that school, or to live in the area where people around them speak with a Home Counties accent. 

The cleaner's comment to Riley was astounding.  I can only assume that the cleaner was actively trying to be sacked from a job she hated, rather than just taking the initiative to hand in her notice and leave.  There's no way it's considered remotely acceptable here for people to speak like that to colleagues, clients etc.   

 

 

.

[elaine567]

11 minutes ago, Libby1 said:

The cleaner's comment to Riley was astounding.  I can only assume that the cleaner was actively trying to be sacked from a job she hated, rather than just taking the initiative to hand in her notice and leave.  There's no way it's considered remotely acceptable here for people to speak like that to colleagues, clients etc.

Ok, but she was just being honest.
If she usually works in high class establishments, then cleaning for some American waitress she felt was beneath her  was not going to go down well and she voiced what she really thinks.
We may all want to think we live in some classless society, but the UK is not classless.
The circles this guy moves in will take class very seriously.
My worry here is WHY is this guy rebelling and deliberately trampling all over class norms by choosing Riley and showing her off to his friends and family, who are no doubt appalled.
What is his real game here?

[Trail Blazer]

20 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Ok, but she was just being honest.
If she usually works in high class establishments, then cleaning for some American waitress she felt was beneath her  was not going to go down well and she voiced what she really thinks.
We may all want to think we live in some classless society, but the UK is not classless.
The circles this guy moves in will take class very seriously.
My worry here is WHY is this guy rebelling and deliberately trampling all over class norms by choosing Riley and showing her off to his friends and family, who are no doubt appalled.
What is his real game here?

Does love have a game?  He's merely thumbing his nose at the establishment and doing what he wants to do.

[Libby1]

1 hour ago, Angelle said:

She was only joking, but some tourism does revolve around Harry Potter, and the royal family. Windsor castle, the Tower of London, Westminster Abbey, the changing of the guard, the parts of the UK that were used for filming. I'll try to remember to find a link about a street in London, that I saw the other day. I've been feeling really homesick, and am now getting bombarded with pictures from "suggested accounts" to follow on instagram. I have American friends who travelled around the UK, and loved it. They want to go back, when covid is over with. 

The Tories are similar to the "the right" over here, they aren't even the far-right in either country, anymore, but that is off-topic here. I don't pay much attention to the royals, but I know people who are obsessed with them. Americans, they hate Meghan Markle, or love her - I remember massive comment sections on social media, whenever they were in the news. I guess that happened again recently. 

Harry Potter certainly did do a massive amount to regenerate the British film industry and attract tourists.  I don't see how anybody could deny that.   The Royal family also.  It's a mystery to me why their weddings attract so much attention, but evidently there's a fairytale element to it that works.  Even Princess Eugenie's wedding seemed to attract massive interest, and I'd be surprised if many people outside of the UK have even heard of her.  I can kind of see why people would get p***ed off hearing a Brit defend the notion of a monarchy, but the bottom line is that monarchies tend to work out more cheaply than presidential type heads of state.   Something like 60p per person per year, I think it is.  That's just not a sum I can get worked up about....though my preference would be for a toned down, scaled down version more along the lines of Scandinavian monarchy.

There's this continued fascination with the British monarchy and the blue blood hangers on associated with it.  Ironically that fascination seems to be kept going primarily by people who are fervently opposed to the monarchy and by the idea of nobility.  For most people who actually live in the UK, I think the monarchy, aristocracy etc are relics of a past time in which these institutions were powerful...but whose power and status dwindled away in the 20th century.  Things Riley has said regarding things she's encountered in the UK just don't resonate with me, as somebody who lives here and is therefore immersed in the culture.  Perhaps I don't move in the right circles, or haven't spent enough time living in the South of England, but these people she's talking about sound like an alien breed.

 

[Libby1]

40 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Ok, but she was just being honest.
If she usually works in high class establishments, then cleaning for some American waitress she felt was beneath her  was not going to go down well and she voiced what she really thinks.

I've occasionally eaten at high class restaurants and stayed at high class hotels with family or friends.  It's not part of my lifestyle, and I'm sure it was very obvious to staff that it was a treat for me rather than something I was born/used to.  I can't remember any of them trying to make me feel like crap, though.  They were always nice, and keen to make sure we had a good time.   I think high class establishments usually train their staff to look after all customers well, regardless of whether or not they seem wealthy.  If the cleaner felt that "some American waitress" was beneath her then that sounds like it came from a character flaw/insecurity/snobbery about the cleaner herself, rather than from an attitude that any high quality company would encourage in its staff.  

The other explanation is that Riley herself is a bit hung up on class issues, maybe wasn't as polite to the cleaner as she could have been...and a clash resulted.  But that's just a guess.  I would be shocked by anybody here who took a view of "this person is a waitress and therefore I'm not going to treat them as well as I treat my wealthier clients".  Not to say it never happens, but I don't think snobbish people like that are quite as prevalent as films starring Julia Roberts in the 1990s would have us believe.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Libby1

[Libby1]

On 11/5/2020 at 8:30 PM, RileyG said:

My fiance owns this house, His parents bought it for him, I sit on the edge of couches and and get scared because it is a massive place and I might break something and I can't replace it. Our bedroom was as big as my apartment. I do wonder what he sees in me and why me. He could have had any eligible British chick, why some waitress from NY.

Some of the things they call each other like "N   once" and its acceptable?!?  I don't understand it!

My boyfriend told the cleaner not to come again and contacted the agency for another. Some of his friends have commented calling me dumb and simple because I was a waitress. We have more channels than DirecTV on our TV, as a "typical yank" as I've been called I should be watching, but I do enjoy a good board game or chess game.

No that is definitely not acceptable.   Is this a case of privileged white boys trying to be cool and "street" by calling eachother the N word?  That's the only way I can imagine it.  

Noblesse Oblige which long been a fundamental principle of aristocracy in Europe (including the UK).  It basically means that with power and privilege comes responsibility.  Which includes a responsibility to be socially responsible and to be well mannered in their dealings with others. Inevitably lots of members of the upper classes fall short of that behaviour - as has been demonstrated by some of the minor royals who staff report having been a nightmare to work for, but it's nonetheless an important guiding principle...and those members of the nobility whose behaviour consistently lacks Noblesse Oblige tend to be very controversial figures who are embarrassing to their families.

People from the UK who went to the New World all those centuries ago often started their lives there off as indentured servants, or else escaped from a life of indentured servitude.  If somebody has pulled themselves up from nothing, by their bootstraps, they're less likely to regard themselves as being constrained, governed or guided by Noblesse Oblige....which is understandable, but in some cases they'll still want to be perceived as elite or upper class.  So they adopt mannerisms and a degree of arrogance that they associate with the nobility - without any accompanying sense of obligation to treat others politely and well.  At a guess, that's the category the people you're talking about would fall into.  Don't be fooled by the accents or any carefully studied "aristocratic rudeness".   They sound like nothing more than pretentious snobs who express themselves in some very ugly ways.

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Libby1

[elaine567]

3 minutes ago, Libby1 said:

 Is this a case of privileged white boys trying to be cool and "street" by calling eachother the N word? 

This isn't I guess "the N word" as we usually know it
A nonce is a sex offender, especially one who is guilty of sexual offences against children... a paedophile 

[Calmandfocused]

5 hours ago, Angelle said:

I don't know how the conversation got onto hating or loving the Brits, when this seems to involve friends from the United States. 

Im not seeing any “hate” talk for the Brits. Just a bit of fun. 
 

What I am concluding from this is: if I ever went to the USA, I’d be swamped with attention  just for my British accent alone. That doesn’t sound too bad to me! 
 

 

 

[Libby1]

46 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

This isn't I guess "the N word" as we usually know it
A nonce is a sex offender, especially one who is guilty of sexual offences against children... a paedophile 

They're calling eachother nonces?  Okay, I stand corrected.  Perhaps they do have blue blood after all.

[lana-banana]

Sorry, maybe OP will find this a welcome break amidst all the whatever that's transpired over the past few pages here, but: can you explain your immigration process to me? Unless I missed something obvious, I thought that non-residents with no UK relatives needed at least 5 years of continuous residency before they were eligible to apply for that. And family visas (such as an intended marriage) require getting married within six months of applying, but you can't work on a fiance visa. But it doesn't appear that you qualify for any of the primary work categories for visa applicants? How did that work?

(Also I'm highly skeptical that an American would describe "nonce" as "the N-word". I assume it is indeed what Libby and others had guessed.)

Edited November 30, 2020 by lana-banana

[Libby1]

15 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

Sorry, maybe OP will find this a welcome break amidst all the whatever that's transpired over the past few pages here, but: can you explain your immigration process to me? Unless I missed something obvious, I thought that non-residents with no UK relatives needed at least 5 years of continuous residency before they were eligible to apply for that. And family visas (such as an intended marriage) require getting married within six months of applying, but you can't work on a fiance visa. But it doesn't appear that you qualify for any of the primary work categories for visa applicants? How did that work?

(Also I'm highly skeptical that an American would describe "nonce" as "the N-word". I assume it is indeed what Libby and others had guessed.)

Without going back through the thread to check, I'm assuming that if Riley is talking about residency she means a temporary 5 year residence card.  At the moment it's still possible for non European Economic Area residents to get a 5 year residence card if they're living with a European partner (and if they wanted to, they'd apply for permanent residence after that).  But things will change at the end of this year due to Brexit...and I suppose the change will be that you have to be living with a partner who has permanent residency in the UK - as opposed to in the whole of the EEA.

That thing about the n-word meaning "nonce" confused me, I must confess.  I haven't read all the posts in this thread, and wondered if there'd been some post I'd missed which mentioned these guys calling eachother "nonces".

Edited November 30, 2020 by Libby1

[Angelle]

21 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Ok, but she was just being honest.
If she usually works in high class establishments, then cleaning for some American waitress she felt was beneath her  was not going to go down well and she voiced what she really thinks.
We may all want to think we live in some classless society, but the UK is not classless.
The circles this guy moves in will take class very seriously.
My worry here is WHY is this guy rebelling and deliberately trampling all over class norms by choosing Riley and showing her off to his friends and family, who are no doubt appalled.
What is his real game here?

 

18 hours ago, Libby1 said:

No that is definitely not acceptable.   Is this a case of privileged white boys trying to be cool and "street" by calling eachother the N word?  That's the only way I can imagine it.  

Noblesse Oblige which long been a fundamental principle of aristocracy in Europe (including the UK).  It basically means that with power and privilege comes responsibility.  Which includes a responsibility to be socially responsible and to be well mannered in their dealings with others. Inevitably lots of members of the upper classes fall short of that behaviour - as has been demonstrated by some of the minor royals who staff report having been a nightmare to work for, but it's nonetheless an important guiding principle...and those members of the nobility whose behaviour consistently lacks Noblesse Oblige tend to be very controversial figures who are embarrassing to their families.

People from the UK who went to the New World all those centuries ago often started their lives there off as indentured servants, or else escaped from a life of indentured servitude.  If somebody has pulled themselves up from nothing, by their bootstraps, they're less likely to regard themselves as being constrained, governed or guided by Noblesse Oblige....which is understandable, but in some cases they'll still want to be perceived as elite or upper class.  So they adopt mannerisms and a degree of arrogance that they associate with the nobility - without any accompanying sense of obligation to treat others politely and well.  At a guess, that's the category the people you're talking about would fall into.  Don't be fooled by the accents or any carefully studied "aristocratic rudeness".   They sound like nothing more than pretentious snobs who express themselves in some very ugly ways.

 

 

Exactly. I was always taught that class has nothing to do with money, and it has everything to do with how you treat others, no matter who they are. 

 

17 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

Im not seeing any “hate” talk for the Brits. Just a bit of fun. 
 

What I am concluding from this is: if I ever went to the USA, I’d be swamped with attention  just for my British accent alone. That doesn’t sound too bad to me! 

 

I'm talking about the way Britain was described by someone, and I wondered if she'd actually spent time there. My own experience wasn't the same, and I grew up there. 

Oh. and some people do love the English accent. Last year, after watching "Good Omens" my accent was stronger, and when I got a smoothie from a health food store I used to frequent, the girl behind the counter said she loved my accent, and asked if this was my first time here. I've lived here since 1990.  My mother used to be the one to get the comments, compliments, and questions, because I was quieter. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Angelle

[Libby1]

18 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

Im not seeing any “hate” talk for the Brits. Just a bit of fun. 

Well...for the most part, yeah.

Quote

What I am concluding from this is: if I ever went to the USA, I’d be swamped with attention  just for my British accent alone. That doesn’t sound too bad to me! 

A homeless man tried to scrounge money from me in New York, and yelled "Freeeedoooom" when I pretended I didn't have any cash on me.  He was so pleased about my accent, that he didn't seem to mind not getting any money out of me.  And years ago on a family holiday to Rio, a man sitting on the beach called me over for a chat.  I was taking a walk, early in the morning before the rest of my family got up, oblivious to the dangers.  I went over and we started chatting.  As soon as I spoke, he was curious about where I was from.  When I said I was from Scotland, he looked absolutely astounded.  He asked "is that a real place?  I always thought it was just a made up land."  Bit ironic to find yourself accused of being from a mythical land by a man who's surrounded by voodoo paraphernalia.  

Elsewhere, if it's not Braveheart, it's Groundskeeper Willie...or there was the Aussie Guy who created the name "Mrs Wheatley" for me.  Mrs Wheatley and her shortbread biscuits.  Scottish men get a much better deal out of the whole thing.  Women get all swoony and make references to Sean Connery in his younger, alive days...or imagine every Scotsman they speak to on the phone looking like Dougray Scott.  But Scotswomen have to content ourselves with Frenchmen telling us that we make good, thrifty wives (we don't) or Russian men asking if we can make haggis from scratch (we can't).  The Irish get a better deal out of it....which is why when people mistake my accent for an Irish one, I'll often just go along with it.  Travelling with an accent can be a lot of fun.  

I'm a bit intrigued that Riley is encountering all this snobbery in Manchester of all places.  

Edited December 1, 2020 by Libby1