My GF was the OW in her previous relationship. Some thoughts/insecurities I need to air

[DKT3]

Sounds like you are avoiding the reality of your situation.  She told you before she didn't want a relationship with him, do you expect her to give you a different answer the next time? The problem is her actions dont match those words. 

As mentioned several times in this thread,  there is no logical explanation to tell him in person.  Its an emotional decision. Behind it, it the most likely REAL reason,  she wants a different answer from him. It is very common with other women,  just read the stories here.

While reading,  take note of difficulties these women have with letting go of these men and the possibilities that they believe a relationship with them would bring.

Worse then any Betrayed husband,  you are going into the situation knowing,  but you have no idea what you are dealing with. 

Smart money says  

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

The reasons she cited for the meeting in person closure was (1) it's a personal way of offering him closure (2) to salvage the friendship (3) to keep the professional relationship intact because he's her right hand man. All this I really didn't have a problem with, until like I said in the OP he started being less than professional more recently. Her proposed approach isn't working out as planned.

Her “proposed approach” isn’t working because she isn’t ready to let him go.

All the rest? Dude, in all respect, you cannot be that naive. 

When you feel compelled to set a goal of getting your own girlfriend to see what her married boyfriend leaving his wife would really look like.....you really have nothing to work with. Even more true when you are a secret from this married boyfriend. 

You’re going to get hurt here. Sorry. 

Edited November 2, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[Unsureaboutmyself]

Yes, you are both likely right, and I'm also reading the stories here to also get a better understanding of how the usual suspects think and feel. I'll be seeing to it that my own interests and emotions are taken care of first, though I care enough for her to want to help her to find her own happiness, whether it's with me or the MM or whomever.

That is, I'll draw my own appropriate boundaries to safeguard myself.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Unsureaboutmyself

[Wiseman2]

6 minutes ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

. I'm gonna try to be not too foolish about it.

You seem to be getting caught up in a lot of cheater lingo and acronyms.

The real issue is she's into and continues to be involved with her lover.

Now the only way the fact that he's married comes into play is that you are a pawn in her game and filler on thier off times.

The fact that you met families,etc. also is for her to pretend she has a legitimate life.

Being in a love triangle is a good way to get hurt. Perhaps you enjoy risks.

[Unsureaboutmyself]

8 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You seem to be getting caught up in a lot of cheater lingo and acronyms.

The real issue is she's into and continues to be involved with her lover.

Now the only way the fact that he's married comes into play is that you are a pawn in her game and filler on thier off times.

The fact that you met families,etc. also is for her to pretend she has a legitimate life.

Being in a love triangle is a good way to get hurt. Perhaps you enjoy risks.

Well, I don't enjoy this kind of risk. But everything else you said is fair. 

[Wiseman2]

I'm guessing the reason you're putting up with it is because the sex is good it's not going anywhere anyway, so it's a fun for now situation for both of you.

[Unsureaboutmyself]

11 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

I'm guessing the reason you're putting up with it is because the sex is good it's not going anywhere anyway, so it's a fun for now situation for both of you.

It is fantastic but it isn't the reason. It's precisely because it's going somewhere that I find myself here seeking perspective and advice.

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

I'm guessing the reason you're putting up with it is because the sex is good

it always is, in these situations where the sensible thing to do would be to end it.
It is amazing what nonsense many men will put up with for sex...
 

[elaine567]

You need to appreciate that an affair is not like a "normal" relationship.
There is usually a big addictive component involved and she, in effect hasn't cut off her "supply" and will not do so.
He is her "right hand man"... 
Despite her best efforts, she will succumb to his charms.
Drug addicts cannot stay clean when they have free access to their drug of choice. 

OW can detach totally from their MM, but not usually if he remains prominent in her life.
The fact he remains as a fly in the ointment is enough of a red flag in itself.

There are three people in this relationship, him and her, and you., not you and her, and him.
 

[Unsureaboutmyself]

4 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

You need to appreciate that an affair is not like a "normal" relationship.
There is usually a big addictive component involved and she, in effect hasn't cut off her "supply" and will not do so.
He is her "right hand man"... 
Despite her best efforts, she will succumb to his charms.
Drug addicts cannot stay clean when they have free access to their drug of choice. 

OW can detach totally from their MM, but not usually if he remains prominent in her life.
The fact he remains as a fly in the ointment is enough of a red flag in itself.

There are three people in this relationship, him and her, and you., not you and her, and him.
 

 

You are very right in saying an affair and the emotions involved isn't a normal, healthy relationship, by any stretch. Shall pay your words - and those of others - heed.

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

It is fantastic but it isn't the reason. It's precisely because it's going somewhere that I find myself here seeking perspective and advice.

From your (blinded) perspective, maybe. 

But as long as she's hanging on this guy (and she very much is), it's not going anywhere. 

[Unsureaboutmyself]

4 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

From your (blinded) perspective, maybe. 

But as long as she's hanging on this guy (and she very much is), it's not going anywhere. 

 

I concede that, yes.

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

I concede that, yes.

Then you'd be wise to ask yourself what the heck you're still doing there. 

She's got some serious character flaws, ones which are already damaging your relationship. These are your insecurities speaking. It's your common sense trying to warn you that you are in a bad situation with a woman who's not as great as you like to think she is. 

[EPC82]

The ex OW has been entirely upfront with OP. 

Are we honestly saying that people can't change and move on? 

Everyone here enjoys painting ex OW's as a complete waste of time and space. Ugh. 

[Prudence V]

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

You need to appreciate that an affair is not like a "normal" relationship.
 

This may well have been true of your affair, but it was not true of mine, or of many others. 

[pepperbird2]

On 11/1/2020 at 9:35 AM, Unsureaboutmyself said:

 

Have guarded my heart, which is causing some consternation. She says she sees marriage and a life together with me, and doesn't want to return to that relationship and the lows it made her feel, and doesn't want to return to the working arrangement too. But odds are she's resuming the work arrangement, a 2-3 months on the roads one, and prefers to keep the friendship she and the MM had before the affair intact. She asked me if I wanted to set any boundaries for her and him and she'd heed them, but I told such boundaries can only be drawn by her of her own volition.

I wouldn't trust her re: boundaries. Not because she'd been an OW, but because it doesn't sound like it takes all that much for her to cross them. Why did she not cut this guy out of her life, friendship and all? There;s many times where former affair partners have to work together and nothing happens,s but that doesn't sound like it would be the case here.

[Prudence V]

On 11/1/2020 at 12:15 PM, Unsureaboutmyself said:

She's been very candid about her few-years-old affair with a married subordinate,

This is the bit that concerns me. He’s her subordinate. If she dumps him, he goes to HR, citing sexual harassment (or worse) because of the power relationship, and she loses her job (or even, faces charges). 
 

The fact that he’s married is irrelevant to me (that’s on him, not her) but the “seducing” (I’m being generous) of a subordinate is more than a “lapse of judgment”. It’s a major red flag, IMV. 
 

OP, she may be really into you, and your R may indeed have a future... but until she deals with this abuse of power, it’s a minefield. She needs a new job - and best she resign, get a good reference and move on before he blows this up and she leaves in disgrace. Once she’s cleaned up behind herself logistically, she needs to face herself down in counselling as to why she felt OK abusing her power and position in this way, and once - if - she’s dealt with all that, then perhaps she’ll be a safer bet in a relationship. 
 

Her telling him “in person” that she’s moved on to someone new does nothing about the real issue, other than setting up a potentially explosive situation at work. 

[pepperbird2]

8 hours ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

Thanks for all the replies and inputs. I'm definitely proceeding with caution and care and girding myself for the possibility/eventuality of her returning to the arms of the MM.

A bit more context to the situation: We've met each other's family and friends and have spent a decent amount of time with them, while the MM hasn't (obviously). She understands, especially now in hindsight, that being the OW was terrible and that she says she doesn't want to revisit it ever again. She called it quits with him before covid hit and was actively then trying to put some distance between the MM and herself. The MM agreed then to part ways but, to the surprise of no one, he's changing his tune. The reasons she cited for the meeting in person closure was (1) it's a personal way of offering him closure (2) to salvage the friendship (3) to keep the professional relationship intact because he's her right hand man. All this I really didn't have a problem with, until like I said in the OP he started being less than professional more recently. Her proposed approach isn't working out as planned.

I would say she's pretty much tethered to him in a complex manner, emotionally, professionally. I don't think she's intentionally playing both sides - other than this issue she's generous to a fault and builds me up as a person and lovely as can be - but she probably doesn't realize how deep she's in with the MM and how not examining those residue emotions in the colder light of day and extricating herself from this tangled web hurts her, the MM, the MM's wife and me or whomever else gets involved with her. It will always cast a long shadow on her relationships. My goal is to get her to consider seriously the possibility of the MM leaving his wife - what would she do then after the one and only hurdle in their relationship is removed? And if she has indeed moved on for real, then clear boundaries have to be built, to prevent relapsing into the affair and safeguarding the relationships she truly cherishes (with me or someone else).

 

 

 

 

My god man, you're supposed to be her boyfriend not her therapist!

[pepperbird2]

26 minutes ago, EPC82 said:

The ex OW has been entirely upfront with OP. 

Are we honestly saying that people can't change and move on? 

Everyone here enjoys painting ex OW's as a complete waste of time and space. Ugh. 

Then take that the guy was married out of the equation. Say he was single.
This woman is clearly still pining for her ex, and just because she was upfront doesn't change that.

[EPC82]

There are plenty of relationships that end without closure. The lack of closure always plays inside a person's mind. It doesn't mean a person will never love properly again. 

If the ex OW is resolved to not be an OW anymore, if she wants to move on and build healthy, loving relationships, she can. 

No one in this thread knows this woman beyond the OP. It sounds like she is trying to navigate a professional relationship with her ex MM and she is being entirely transparent to her bf. What more do you folks want from her?

[EPC82]

I recall, not too long ago some of you posters telling an OW that no man will want her because she was an OW once apon a time. This woman has found a man that wants her, baggage and all and you are trying to convince his to leave her. 

Moral of the story, anyone who has ever loved a married man should be alone forever, pining endlessly for her MM. 

[Fletch Lives]

This woman has a boyfriend already. You are the other man.

My advice? - Find a single woman to date.

She'll cause you nothing but heartache and pain

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Fletch Lives

[Uruktopi]

5 hours ago, elaine567 said:

There are three people in this relationship, him and her, and you., not you and her, and him.
 

You described it right

[Uruktopi]

5 hours ago, elaine567 said:

It is amazing what nonsense many men will put up with for sex...
 

LOL!

I usually agree with most if not all of your posts.

THIS may deserve some side comment...fom a man´s (personal) view.

True, a lot of men (and women) remain married (and loyal) while scarce, poor or no sex. 

May be cos the memories of better times about, may be cos they hold hope this may become better....in a century or two ahead.

And THAT is another contradictory way to say the same.

 

[Acacia98]

1 hour ago, EPC82 said:

The ex OW has been entirely upfront with OP. 

Are we honestly saying that people can't change and move on? 

Everyone here enjoys painting ex OW's as a complete waste of time and space. Ugh. 

She's still tangled up with the MM and has not told him she's in a serious relationship. C'mon, if we're gonna cast an OM or OW in a story about redemption, we could find much better candidates, for instance people who end all contact with their MM or MW and set strong boundaries long BEFORE they get involved with a new girlfriend or boyfriend. This woman is out of her depth (if she actually believes what she's telling OP), and when she starts drowning, she's gonna drag OP down with her.

1 hour ago, EPC82 said:

It sounds like she is trying to navigate a professional relationship with her ex MM and she is being entirely transparent to her bf. What more do you folks want from her?

So all is going just fine? In that case, why is OP here? 

 

10 hours ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

My goal is to get her to consider seriously the possibility of the MM leaving his wife - what would she do then after the one and only hurdle in their relationship is removed? And if she has indeed moved on for real, then clear boundaries have to be built, to prevent relapsing into the affair and safeguarding the relationships she truly cherishes (with me or someone else).

You really shouldn't be playing the role of a social worker/psychologist to your GF. That's a sign that you jumped into a relationship with her before she was ready to start a new relationship. All this stuff you guys are discussing about boundary setting and whatnot in this thread is stuff she should have navigated and put behind her before she started dating you. An analogy of what you're doing right now: dating an alcoholic who's been sober for five months and still works as a bartender. It's only a matter of time...