FMW Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 Last night I spent the evening with the guy I'm involved with and his three closest friends, I've shared quite a bit of time with them over the past year. One he has known for most of his life and is widowed, as he is. I enjoy being around him. Two of them are married to each other and have known him about 10 years. The husband is extremely opinionated and usually dominates the conversation. The wife is very blunt and straightforward. I don't generally have a problem with that but she can be judgmental in a harsh way that sometimes makes me feel uncomfortable, as if I need to defend the person she's talking about even if I don't know them. The husband usually expounds on the negative comments. I do voice my opinion at times in general and if I know the person she's talking about, in specific. "My guy" is a kind and thoughtful person and always very friendly and welcoming to people. He's a musician, so of course that's part of what's needed for his professional persona, but it's genuine and who he is in private. He listens to what they're saying and will sometimes make a relevant remark, but he doesn't seem to feel any need to bring the conversation back to a less judgmental level. We socialize a lot with one of my good friends and her boyfriend, also a musician that works frequently with my guy and they consider each other good friends. Our time together with them and our conversations have such a different vibe to them and are fairly equal as to who brings up topics and then in the discussion. Sure, we might snark about someone occasionally but it's seldom with any hard judgment. When we leave those get togethers I feel happy. After our get together last night I felt negative and like I just wanted to escape from all of them - including my guy even though he hadn't really said much during the conversations that were so negative. These friends are very important to him, they helped him through the incredibly difficult times of being his late wife's caretaker during the final years of her life and then her death from cancer. They are a regular presence in his day to day life. I've felt welcomed and accepted, which wasn't a given since they were all close with his late wife as well, having met them prior to her diagnosis. At times though I do feel the conversations about people they all knew from the past (that I've never met) go on far too long and leave me with nothing to do but sit and smile for long periods of time. Those conversations are always initiated by the married couple, not by my guy or the other friend. For the first time it popped into my head - what does it say about him that these are his closest friends? Or maybe the question is why is this bothering me so much. 1
Happy Lemming Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 13 minutes ago, FMW said: After our get together last night I felt negative and like I just wanted to escape from all of them... Is there a way for "your guy" to socialize with these friends without you?? Let him have them over for a bbq or whatever and you be (conveniently) out of town on a day trip or business or visiting family or some other function. I wouldn't let these friends "sour" you on your guy. If the relationship is otherwise a good one, just avoid these negative people, as much as possible. Just my two cents... 2
Author FMW Posted October 31, 2020 Author Posted October 31, 2020 Thanks Happy Lemming. I feel the need to be part of what is important to him, I guess, and to also get to know him in a way I wouldn't otherwise by seeing his interactions with them and hearing the stories. We generally only get together once or twice a month with them, so I probably need to just suck it up.
Happy Lemming Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 Many years ago, I was dating this woman (long term) and things were good. She had this one friend that just didn't like me. I did nothing to this friend (woman), but anytime we all got together, there was abrasiveness and tension. The friend was overweight and sloppy and couldn't keep any guy. I think she was just anti-men. We didn't get together with the friend all that often, but I dreaded it each time we did. So when it came time for my girlfriend to get together with the friend. I suggested the two of them go to a "Day Spa" on me. At that time, I think it was about $50-$60/person, so for just over $100, my girlfriend got to do something "fun" with her friend and I got to avoid the whole situation. I told a little white lie to that girlfriend that I had got a bonus at work and wanted to share it with her and for her to go have some fun. Other times they would do lunch, etc. and I just avoided socializing with the friend. I mean it was her friend, not mine... so why should I be miserable. No need to suck it up... just make yourself scarce. I do think your guy will understand, I'm sure he wouldn't want you to be unhappy. Twice a month is A LOT. I don't think I could deal with that much contact with that couple. 5
d0nnivain Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 50 minutes ago, FMW said: what does it say about him that these are his closest friends? I think it says that their personalities don't bother him as much as they bother you. I don't draw any adverse inferences from it. If these people aren't your cup of tea, don't spend that much time with them but don't try to break up the friendship. 2
elaine567 Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 59 minutes ago, FMW said: These friends are very important to him, they helped him through the incredibly difficult times of being his late wife's caretaker during the final years of her life and then her death from cancer. They are a regular presence in his day to day life. I've felt welcomed and accepted, which wasn't a given since they were all close with his late wife as well, having met them prior to her diagnosis. Death tends to change those closely associated with it. They all bonded over the long illness and ultimate death of your bf's wife, and have got into the habit of being rather negative and judgemental. That may be their way of expressing sadness, anger and frustration over the no doubt difficult and traumatic death of their friend. Some find little to be happy about or feel guilty for expressing happiness, so they tend to wallow iin the more negative aspects of life. 1
Miss Spider Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 (edited) I understand what you mean. I absolutely HATED the crowd that my last boyfriend was associated with. Soulless, ‘narcissists’ with way too much money who partied their ennui away. Professional cheerleaders who did a ton of blow almost every night and then went to teach kids. Complete dregs of society. There’s definitely a grain of truth to ‘birds of feather’ because to an extent, the people a person chooses to be friends with does reflect the values and what they find enjoyable. Especially if they are a part of his day to day life. He chooses to hang out with these people. He obviously finds some component about it enjoyable. And yes, there is that huge part of it where the more you are involved with him, the more you will inevitably be involved with them. It gets old being around people you can’t stand. Honestly, I told my last boyfriend how I felt about certain friends of his. I didn’t try to divide him from them or make him take a side. I just let him know how I felt around them. I don’t know how close you are at this point, but depending on that I think you can talk about it. He may see/agree with you on that aspect of them and that may give you some reassurance. You may not have to hang with them as often. At this point, he may think you like socializing with them as well Edited October 31, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes 3 1
Author FMW Posted October 31, 2020 Author Posted October 31, 2020 1 hour ago, d0nnivain said: but don't try to break up the friendship. I would never, ever do that, never crossed my mind. As I said, they are very important to him and I'm grateful he has them and that they were there to support him when he was going through a terrible experience. I wouldn't ever even say a negative word about them to him for the same reason. It's my problem, not his. I'm trying to figure out how to deal with it and looking for outside perspectives. I don't want to remove myself completely with his interactions with them, I think it's important to him that I'm part of their close group and I'm happy for that.
Author FMW Posted October 31, 2020 Author Posted October 31, 2020 1 hour ago, d0nnivain said: I think it says that their personalities don't bother him as much as they bother you. Interesting - maybe I'm the one being judgmental about them
Author FMW Posted October 31, 2020 Author Posted October 31, 2020 50 minutes ago, elaine567 said: That may be their way of expressing sadness, anger and frustration over the no doubt difficult and traumatic death of their friend. Good point. I'll try to keep that in mind.
Happy Lemming Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, FMW said: I don't want to remove myself completely with his interactions with them, I think it's important to him that I'm part of their close group and I'm happy for that. OK... then limit your involvement with them. Perhaps every other time, you all get together be absent. Metered doses... 2 1
Author FMW Posted October 31, 2020 Author Posted October 31, 2020 55 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said: At this point, he may think you like socializing with them as well Honestly they are ok about half the time and to a point I find them interesting - hopefully that's what shows on my face, not the other feelings! 1
Author FMW Posted October 31, 2020 Author Posted October 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said: Metered doses... Yes, I think that's the answer. 1
poppyfields Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, FMW said: These friends are very important to him, they helped him through the incredibly difficult times of being his late wife's caretaker during the final years of her life and then her death from cancer. They are a regular presence in his day to day life. I've felt welcomed and accepted. For the first time it popped into my head - what does it say about him that these are his closest friends? Or maybe the question is, why is this bothering me so much? Hey FMW, to answer your first question in your last paragrah^, consider what's bolded. Imo, I would say he's got some damn good friends there, hard to come by. Which speaks volumes to who HE is. To your second question, I don't know why their negativity bothers you, that's for you to figure out. My SIL is unbelievably negative, she's always b*itching about something. But my brother loves her to death, he actually embraces this about her, accepts it. She's always been this way. I've learned to accept it. Basically in one ear and out the other, that's how I deal. She loves my brother, treats HIM super well, they have a lovely marriage, which is all that matters to me. So maybe try seeing it from that perspective? And refer back to the bolded when you need to, cause again friends like this are hard to come by. Edited October 31, 2020 by poppyfields 1 1
Miss Spider Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 (edited) My friends ex friends helped him through hard times too. It doesn’t mean that they are good friends to have. Yes, it means they did a good thing by being emotionally supportive to him in that situation. And he found some refuge in having them as friends. But their character is still questionable V and I don’t believe it necessarily absolves them from being toxic ppl. Not saying everyone that is negative is bad, just saying that it’s still something for fmv to consider. Edited October 31, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes 1
carhill Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 If serious about the guy, IMO who his family is will have a far larger impact on your relationship than his friends, long-term. How are things with them? 1 1
Wiseman2 Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 3 hours ago, FMW said: These friends are very important to him, they helped him through the incredibly difficult times of being his late wife's caretaker during the final years of her life and then her death from cancer. They are a regular presence in his day to day life. - what does it say about him that these are his closest friends? It says he's a loyal friend and appreciates all they've done for him. It is probably boring to hear them reminisce about times, people and places you know nothing about. You don't have to like or agree with his friends, just respect that they are friends. Also the socializing here and there is not that excessive and in time they will hopefully warm up to you more. 3 1
Ellener Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 2 hours ago, FMW said: why is this bothering me so much. Bcause it's boring and negative for you! At the start of the pandemic I was walking with a friend I've known for some years but we never hung out before this. It was a really nice time, then I found her husband is a convicted child sex offender...it's ruined the friendship because I will always wonder what kind of a person stays with such a man. I know on one level she's a great person, but I just aren't very forgiving about child abuse nor do I feel like having an in-depth intense conversation about it. If we are to have any friendship it will exclude him and discussion of him and contact with him...and since she seems to idolise him and praise him and not see any flaws in him or the situation, plus at the end of the day it's none of my business, well it's not going to work out unless she can accept I have a big boundary here. Same with you- of course you don't have to like everyone your partner likes. The distinction is like this for me- they are important to him so he should get to hang out with them, and if you say had a wedding orimportant event they should be invited as people close to him, and they will be on your holiday card list... But that's as far as it would go for me, no big fuss or drama, but I would not go visit them regularly if I don't like it. 2 1
Miss Spider Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 (edited) Well said, @Ellener. Completely agree. Though these people don’t sound as bad as that friend’s friend(yikes) I definitely think something can be inferred from both ... and same principles apply. you don’t have to be as close with them as your partner is Edited October 31, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes Yu 1 1
Ruby Slippers Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 I agree with the advice to limit the time with them. You say you enjoy their company about half the time. So pull back to about half the time with them. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. 2
smackie9 Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 (edited) It says your guy is kind, and accepting, so accepting he feels obligated to them because of what they did for him...so they are not that bad, just bad at conversation. Have a discussion with your BF and or other friend about how their topic of conversation makes you feel, but not in a judgemental way. Maybe this will give him the opportunity to feel safe to talk about it and agree with you. There's no harm in that. You two can come up with a strategy like how to divert the conversation and make it fun and interesting to them. IMO feel people like them are simply frustrated about life and this is their way to vent/cope to feel better. If you introduce them to more positive things to talk about, it will benefit everyone. Edited October 31, 2020 by smackie9 2
Author FMW Posted October 31, 2020 Author Posted October 31, 2020 1 hour ago, carhill said: How are things with them? They're kind of a mess. His dad physically abused him as a child, his mother is passive aggressive about everything. His brother and sister-in-law are ok, I haven't met his sister. The difference is that because of COVID, socializing with his family isn't really happening right now. He keeps in touch with them by phone or brief visits on his own. Writing that I just realized that maybe the negativity feels like home to him, and that's why it doesn't appear to bother him. It's what he's used to. From the beginning he has told me that I'm gentle and sensitive, which I thought was always kind of odd to make a point about. The wife of the couple I started this post about was a good friend of his late wife and she told me from the beginning that the late wife was difficult and the marriage wasn't as great as he liked to present it. He's just recently admitted to me that she was verbally abusive to him and he actually moved out for awhile because of it. But then she was diagnosed and he moved back in. He most certainly loved her, but I think he's still working on facing the difficulties they had because he doesn't want to remember things that way because she was taken away. He's the most good and decent man I've met other than my father, and apparently more tolerant and less judgmental than I'm being.
MsJayne Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 Putting up with people you don't particularly like is sometimes part of a relationship. My guy's best friend has a wife who I have zero in common with, I find her extremely dull and I don't like the way she controls her husband, (he has a thumb print on his forehead that you could land a Black Hawk helicopter on), and I was elated when she had to cancel a BBQ at their house that we were meant to go to today. Maybe she finds me as tedious as I find her . Likewise I'm good friends with a couple who my partner isn't too keen on, (wife dominates conversation after a couple of vinos and hubby is a bit too competitive), but he tolerates it. I guess it depends on how much time you have to spend around these people and whether it feels like torture when you're with them. They sound unpleasant, so maybe just be honest with your guy and tell him you find their judgy-ness offensive. You might find he doesn't like them much either and it's just the feeling that he 'owes' them that keeps the friendship going, or, as you say, if he enjoys their company and finds them entertaining maybe you're finding out something about him that's a deal breaker. 2 1
Author FMW Posted October 31, 2020 Author Posted October 31, 2020 (edited) Thanks so much for all the responses. I think I was being a little selfish and maybe even feeling a little jealousy because I'm the "new kid" to their little group and was feeling a little left out and insecure instead of appreciating the fact that everyone has welcomed me in. My friends are great, but they all have just taken my side and said they were being rude or mean. I needed a little balance of perspective! Edited October 31, 2020 by FMW
Timshel Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 5 hours ago, FMW said: At times though I do feel the conversations about people they all knew from the past (that I've never met) go on far too long and leave me with nothing to do but sit and smile for long periods of time. Those conversations are always initiated by the married couple, not by my guy or the other friend. For the first time it popped into my head - what does it say about him that these are his closest friends? Or maybe the question is why is this bothering me so much. Two things FMW, first, it bothers you because being judgemental/gossipy and talking smack about others isn't your thing. Something inside of you shifts to uncomfortable and that's a good thing! I think it doesn't bother your bf because it's familiar, as you said and people tend to let lot's of stuff with old friends and people who have gone through the rough stuff with us slide. The second is that yes, you get bored with long conversations about days of yore, normal. It's a tad insensitive of the married couple to do so, buuut at the end of the day, nothing a little tidying in another room or a breath of fresh air won't fix. You are aware and I think you know that now it's about managing and you will. 2
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