Dreading tonight

[QTpie123]

Can you emotionally abuse yourself?

I cheated on my husband once. Only once. He found out. This was 16 years ago. 
 

If he complained about the amount of time I spent on the phone with friends or family I would make sure to shorten my conversations. He says he was playing about these comments and I should realize that after being with him for so long. 
 

if he didn’t like my friends I ended the friendships. I isolated myself. 
 

He never told me to end the friendships. He never told me to shorten the length of my phone calls. I just did it because I felt I owed him these courtesies after hurting him.  
 

Did I emotionally abuse myself?!  Did I hate myself so much that I did all this to hurt myself as self punishment?  Or am I in denial?! I’m so confused. 

[QTpie123]

I am considering divorce from my husband of 19 years. My state doesn’t recognize separations. 
 

Here is where I am conflicted. 
 

He’s cheated on me 3 times, that I know of-have proof of. Just found out about 2 of them 2 months ago. 
 

He’s remorseful and wants to reconcile. I’m trying. We are in MC have been for 2 months. 
 

When I journal about my feelings and what has happened and I read my thoughts it’s obvious to me  that we need to divorce. 
 

But I still love him. I still feel like he is my best friend and our relationship is comfortable. But I’m terrified that it will happen again and I do t like feeling like a doormat. 
 

Can you feel this way and still know in your mind, that a divorce/separation is probably the best for both of us? 

[FMW]

You post is kind of confusing.  Did you shorten your phone conversations and end friendships AFTER you cheated, feeling it was some kind of penance?  

Cheating was wrong and your husband had every right to end the marriage over it if that had been his reaction.  But I don't believe supervising and controlling your interactions with other people after that was alright, although I've seen some on this forum basically say it is.  If he wasn't able to trust  you without that control, then your marriage was over anyway, the way I see it.  Who wants to babysit and keep a hawk eye on someone because you can't trust them.

I'm not sure what you mean by "did all this", but as to what you wrote - the cheating and then allowing him to control who you were friends with and how long you talked on the phone - only you can answer why.  People cheat for all kinds of reasons.  People stay in controlling relationships for all kinds of reasons. 

Many people are self-destructive at times with their actions, but I think you need to be careful about seeing yourself as a victim of what you've chosen to do.  Go see a counselor and see if they can help you understand what your motivations were, but always take ownership that you chose to cheat and then you chose to allow your husband to dictate who your friends were and how long you talked on the phone. That doesn't mean you never forgive yourself, just make sure you're holding yourself responsible, otherwise you're likely to continue the same types of behavior.  

If that sounds harsh, just know that I hold myself to those same standards.  I have certainly made bad choices along the way, but taking ownership of them and taking time to clearly look at how I came to those bad choices shows me I am not powerless, I am in charge of myself.    

 

[FMW]

I was married for 23 years.  My husband was my best friend, we were very comfortable.  And he cheated, repeatedly. Of course in our case I think things were too comfortable. We no longer connected on an intimate and romantic level.  I just pretended I could do without it and he sought it elsewhere.  

When I chose to divorce he was extremely unhappy and refused to cooperate whatsoever for about 6 months in settling things.  He liked the security and stability I provided.  That wasn't enough for me anymore.  

That separation was 5 years ago, we've been divorced for 4 years now.  I still love him, I just don't want him in my life.  He does contact me from time to time, as a matter of fact he sent me several texts yesterday with information and pictures of where he was traveling because he knew I understood how important the place was to him, so that friendship still exists somewhere deep down.

Take all the time you need to figure out what's right for you.  You absolutely can still love someone and miss their friendship, that doesn't necessarily mean you should be together. It's sad and difficult, but it happens.  

Again - take your time.  You have to feel comfortable with your own decision, don't rush yourself.  

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, QTpie123 said:

I still love him. I still feel like he is my best friend and our relationship is comfortable. But I’m terrified that it will happen again and I do t like feeling like a doormat. 

The best approach is to quit marriage therapy and start individual therapy. Also consult an attorney privately and confidentially to discuss your options in divorce. You can remain friendly and co-parent if divorced. 

He's a serial cheater, so decide if you want to deal with that and simply turn a blind eye, or have a decent life with your kids and potentially a new faithful trustworthy partner. Talk to a lawyer.

[Ellener]

2 hours ago, QTpie123 said:

I felt I owed him these courtesies after hurting him.

So you were trying to reassure him and/or punish yourself by over-compensating? 

Might be more positive to work on aspects of your marriage together. What do you have in common, what do you enjoy doing together?

16 years is a long time if either of you are still dwelling on something, however difficult.

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, QTpie123 said:

If he complained about the amount of time I spent on the phone with friends or family I would make sure to shorten my conversations.

You seem to have good insight. Some people go overboard with masochism when feeling guilty, but you can stop that now, right? your chronically cheating controlling husband seems to be the problem at this time. Talk to a lawyer. You seem torn about the demise of your marriage, but that is normal.

[QTpie123]

How do you handle the aftermath of Dday? I am seeing an IC and a MC. husband hasn’t been able to meet with MC the past two sessions and MC has been questioning my desire to stay married. I am being as honest as possible. And I’m leaning toward leaving almost daily when he’s not around. But when we are together it gets confusing and I become conflicted. I have two different versions of the same person and they don’t match when I’m with him. 

I still love him in a way but i think it’s not the same. I am not feeling angry or sad about the A -but could this be my anxiety medication working overtime? I’m feeling more indifferent towards him when we talk about what happened. But when I’m at work I can still laugh and feel different emotions with other people they aren’t as strong as they were pre-medication though but they are there. 
 

I know what a lot of people on here think about what happened from my previous post. I am trying to take the correct steps for me. I cannot leave a marriage without trying to reconcile. I want no regrets. 
 

ETA: he wants to reconcile I am undecided. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by QTpie123

[Milly May June]

How long since Dday? Could you be emotionally numb at this point? It is not uncommon and takes time to subside. Medication does not help but maybe you can lowe the dose? No matte how s***ty this is you will need to go through the motions for some time regardless if you stay or leave. 

Some things to consider

- give your self some time to reflect on what YOU want more of in your LIFE in the future and think if those dreams and plans include your husband or not. I think our visions for our future tell us a lot about how we want to live and what we want to persue

- make a pro and con list of what the marriage and your husband bring to your life

- dont make any decisions for at least 6 months and let your husbands action speak his intentions

- be selfish. Invest in your self. Make financial arrangements so you feel secure regardless of the outcome. Save money in a separate account to have a as security if you need it in the future.. 

- keep going to IC but maybe quit MC for now until you know if you want to reconsile or not. 

- maybe separate for a while and allow yourselves time to reflect on what both of you want.. 

 

Best wishes!! 

[QTpie123]

I caught  husband in an EA and uncovering an email to a different person 2 months ago and he was forced into telling me about a PA 3 years ago by the OW husband.  This makes 3 different affairs or situations that violate our marriage vows  (I had an affair 16 years ago. Have not strayed since and have been 100% committed to my marriage.) none of his affairs were him confessing, each of them he was caught and forced to confess  

I forgave after I found out about his PA-I mean he forgave me for mine. But I’m having a hard time dealing with the ones I just found 2.5-3 months ago. 
 

we have been together for 22 years 19 married. I told him from the beginning of our relationship that I do not care for flowers. I see them as a waste of money as they just die, and that I do not ever want I’m sorry flowers that would piss me off. Over the course of 22 years he has bought me maybe 4-5 bouquets and I’m fine with that. 
 

however this week he left-he’s a pilot- for a 4 day trip while on his trip he sent flowers to my work. I’m sure they were expensive and we are hurting for money. I was not happy to say the least. In fact by the time I got home that night my jaw was aching from me clenching it all day. I consider these flowers I’m sorry flowers and it pissed me off that he sent them. 
 

today he is leaving to go hunting and won’t be gone till Sunday late. I have found 3 red roses with love notes attached to them scattered around the house for me to find, I’m not sure how many more i will find. Now if he had done this in the past I would find it endearing and loving. However since he has not its grating on my nerves and frustrating the crap out of me, my first inclination was to throw them away. 
 

he has never done anything like this...ever. And I feel like he is only doing it for show and to manipulate me to keep me from leaving him. 
 

our MC told me that if he wants to give me gifts or tell me something that I have to accept the gift no matter how it makes me feel and say thank you. And I have to listen to him and if I have nothing nice to say I have to say thank you. Or ok. I hate that I can’t express myself and feel like my feelings aren’t being heard, but if you are going to do the counseling you have to follow the rules....
 

I feel like he is taking my “thank you” for the flowers as I am ready to forgive and be our happy normal again. 
 

I believe he is sending these flowers this week because he is gone so much he wants me to remember how much he cares. But for me-and he knows this- a card or text would have been appreciated much more.

Am I wrong in how I feel? 
Am I wrong on why I believe he is doing all this?

is this normal behavior from a cheating husband?

[Jen_tully]

I don’t know if it’s normal behaviour or not, I do believe your feelings are valid and it sounds like you may need to do individual counseling on top of the marriage counseling to learn how to validate how you are feeling:)

[QTpie123]

1 hour ago, Garage2020 said:

I don’t know if it’s normal behaviour or not, I do believe your feelings are valid and it sounds like you may need to do individual counseling on top of the marriage counseling to learn how to validate how you are feeling:)

I’ve been in tears all night.
 

One moment I feel like a complete b**** because what girl wouldn’t love flowers and to know her SO is thinking of her?  But then I get so sad and angry that it takes me considering leaving him to see a side of him I’ve never seen.

I was in counseling with and IC but they called and told me they can’t see me anymore this week since they are not licensed in my state (I am Native American and was using my tribes services for the counselor since it was free we were doing zoom calls). I am pretty upset about this too. I really liked my IC and it was a huge blow to have her leave.
 

I don’t know how we will afford both MC and IC now. 
 

ETA:

I’ve been bawling off and on all night. This f***ing sucks. 

I am sleeping in the guest room because I don’t want to have to deal with the roses and notes that are laying on my bed. This is where I threw them as I went on the “egg hunt” for them  I didn’t want to continue to find them all weekend as he planned because I didn’t want to be in a bad mood as I found them over the course of the weekend  I figured it would be best to find all 12 roses tonight and get it over with  

I’m so f***ing disappointed that my marriage is so f***ed up. I seriously thought we were in a good place just 3 months ago and now everything is imploding and I feel like I  have no control.

Everything has gone to s***.  I don’t know what to do. I feel so helpless  

Edited October 24, 2020 by QTpie123

[elaine567]

This is not an uncommon reaction to getting flowers.
The "sorry" flower giving is a real thing and it is OK if they are given for trivial reasons, but when the flowers are used as a means to cover up huge issues in a marriage, like abuse or cheating, the flowers then take on a deeper and darker meaning and they do not engender joy or love in the person getting them.
They are seen as a short cut to fixing stuff and for big issues they are woefully lacking.
They signify hurt, pain and betrayal, and for such women flowers may actually be hated or trigger some very bad negative emotions.
Tell him to stop with the flowers, they will not solve anything and are in fact just upsetting you more.

[Wiseman2]

15 hours ago, QTpie123 said:

.l MC told me that if he wants to give me gifts or tell me something that I have to accept the gift no matter how it makes me feel and say thank you. And I have to listen to him and if I have nothing nice to say I have to say thank you. 

You're not "fine" with his serial cheating.

You're also not fine with his passive-aggressive style of giving you stuff you hate so you "have to" say thanks for a slap in the face.

You don't have to listen to the marriage counselor if the advice is poor and making matters worse.

Why not just be honest? That works a lot better than fake gifts and fake thanks

Why not go to individual therapy for better advice!

[elaine567]

I agree IC is what you need. 
MC is about saving the marriage and that is usually about asking the Betrayed Spouse to accept the affair, so all can go back to normal.
You take it on the chin and the cheater gets off scot free.
That is how it works. It is the only way it really can work, if the marriage is to be saved, but it often leaves the BS with a sour taste in their mouth.
Not only were they betrayed but now they are expected to take a portion of the blame and act nice... all is rug swept, the cheater is happy.
IC will allow you to tell your side of the story and put it into perspective.

[QTpie123]

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

They signify hurt, pain and betrayal, and for such women flowers may actually be hated or trigger some very bad negative emotions.
Tell him to stop with the flowers, they will not solve anything and are in fact just upsetting you more.

You said it perfectly here. I was planning on telling him to stop when he returned. 

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You don't have to listen to the marriage counselor if the advice is poor and making matters worse.

Why not just be honest? That works a lot better than fake gifts and fake thanks

Why not go to individual therapy for better advice!

It seems wrong to go to a “doctor” and take their medical advice. However, as I couldn’t sleep last night and all the crying I realized her advice sucked. And that my feelings matter too. I plan on being honest with him. 
Fake gifts— that feels right about everything he has done for me since I found out. 
 

I was in IC up until this week. I need to find a new counselor soon. 

wiseman2 I know you know the whole story here and I can only imagine how frustrated you are when you can SEE what someone needs to do and they don’t do it immediately. I just want to say I am on my way but I have to do this in a way where I won’t have regrets later. 

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

MC is about saving the marriage and that is usually about asking the Betrayed Spouse to accept the affair, so all can go back to normal.
You take it on the chin and the cheater gets off scot free.
That is how it works. It is the only way it really can work, if the marriage is to be saved, but it often leaves the BS with a sour taste in their mouth.
Not only were they betrayed but now they are expected to take a portion of the blame and act nice... all is rug swept, the cheater is happy.
IC will allow you to tell your side of the story and put it into perspective.

I had no idea this is what marriage counseling was about when dealing with infidelity until we started the services. I left most upset because I felt like I wasn’t heard, or that the counselor was “taking” his side of things and having me deal with it  I know this isn’t true but it’s how I felt. 
 

I am going to try  to get services back for individual counseling this next week. 
 

Thank you everyone. 

[QTpie123]

While my husband is hunting this weekend I moved my stuff from the master bedroom to the guest bedroom. I wanted to move to the guest room from the day I confronted him about his A’s but couldn’t set boundaries and stick by them at first. A month of IC and working through “She without He” along with making a vision board journal to show me what I wanted and needed from life has helped me take this step. 
 

we just texted each other and I told him we need to talk tonight when he gets in. 
 

im freaking out a little and need some support. My anxiety is going through the roof and I’m not sure I’ll be able to find the words tonight to explain to him why I feel I need to separate even if it’s just in a different room in the same house. 

[Milly May June]

My advise would be to just state simple facts. Just say 'i need some space to think and ground myself and I have decided to move into the spare bedroom for some time. I need you to support my decision by respecring my choice and my boundries (if you have any you want to set)... 

 

Hugs to you and good luck tonight! 

[schlumpy]

I suggest you use your phone to record the conversation.

[QTpie123]

11 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

I suggest you use your phone to record the conversation.

Why?

[schlumpy]

Just a precaution. You can always erase it.

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, QTpie123 said:

I moved my stuff from the master bedroom to the guest bedroom

we just texted each other and I told him we need to talk tonight when he gets in. 

He doesn't need an extended explanation. It's your house too. Your actions speak louder than words. Simply tell him you need space. Do Not Elaborate on why. Do not use useless spying tactics, recorders, etc. What for? 

[QTpie123]

Well I did it. 
I had a moment where I just wanted to move my stuff back to our bedroom and give in. But I didn’t. 
 

thanks everyone  now to stick with it over the upcoming days 

 

 

[Milly May June]

Good for you OP! Just focus on what you need and keep ut the therapy! Once you find your footing in all this emotional mess things will be more clear to you on the steps that are in YOUR best interest to take. 

For now focus only on your self and your future. Let your husbands actions speak. Observe, evaluate and decide R or D (in that order). 

Best of luck to you! 

[mark clemson]

The only reason I can think of to record anything would be if you fear there is a potential abuse situation. However, in many cases the other person must be notified of the recording for it to be court-admissible. There are almost certainly local laws in your jurisdiction regarding recording conversations with others and the fact that you're in your own home may be one factor.

IF you think you might need to do this, then you want to see a lawyer and talk though the requirements/legality of this with them. In the US many family attorneys will give free 1/2 hour consults and you can visit more than one - this should be enough to get your questions answered. They will want a counter-party name (your husband). This is so they cannot work for your husband should there be a divorce, although what the requirements are to prevent them may again vary by jurisdiction. You will also probably want to take advantage of this IF you choose to divorce, as it is nice to shop around for an attorney that you like.

I would note that in a genuine abuse situation, mentioning that you are recording has at least a chance of escalating the abuse and IF that happens you might be better served reaching out to support organizations for battered women than trying to engage your husband directly at all.