She was flirting with guy right in front of me

[CaliforniaGirl]

4 hours ago, philthebill said:

I gave her a chance to explain her self she said "It wasn't attraction or flirting, or at least didn't mean it to be. Stupid drunken fascination I get with people male/female when had a few." then she goes on to have no other explanation other than it was the drink. She never even related to understand how I was feeling ! 

The next day while I was in work, I was trying so hard to find reasons to why she was doing what she did, just did not sit with me at all. I maybe should have talked to her about in person but chose to just do it over text, just for what she had done.

 

It wasn't attraction flirting...

Good lord.

[Uruktopi]

7 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

All you can do in this case.

I rarelly agree with your posts, but you are right about this.

Provided that "all you can do" means "no more than" only if also "no less than"

Edited October 25, 2020 by Uruktopi

[DarrenB]

You dodged a bullet pal. Luckily you hadn't invested that much time into this dating escapade.

She can try to justify her poor actions and bad attitude on alcohol, but it does not warrant what she had done on the night.

Don't try to reason with it, but let it go. If this is how she would regularly act then she is not girlfriend/partner material

[CollinW]

When someone shows you who they are, believe it. 

[ExpatInItaly]

The first red flag was when she just randomly told you how good-looking this guy was. 

The next ones were playing with his hair (so much for socially-distanced pizza) and announcing she makes more money than you, and proceeding to chat him up and ignore you. The guy's date obviously thought it was off, too.  

This woman is not in enough control of her own faculties. At 37, she should know better - or at the very least, know where her limits with booze are so she doesn't put herself in situations like this. My guess is that she's a flirty woman by nature and you hadn't had the opportunity to see it until now. 

Pretty crappy behaviour on a date.  I also agree you're best to walk away. I very much doubt this would've been the last time you'd see this side of her, had you decided o continue. 

[Noproblem]

12 hours ago, Watercolors said:

For a 37 year old school principal, I'd say her behavior surpassed inappropriate levels. Flirting with a 24 year old guy, tousling his hair, getting so pissed drunk she couldn't control herself? Yikes. I wouldn't send my child to her elementary school. Please tell me you dumped her. I hope you know that you deserve better than this, in a relationship partner, don't you? You shouldn't settle for women like this.

Are you serious sal? I mean, really! This has nothing to do with phil's ego as you claim. It has everything to do with the fact that the woman he's been dating is a flirty woman who does not respect phil in the least. He did right by dumping her (you did dump her, correct?).

As a 49 year old woman looking at phil's girlfriend's behavior, I can say that women like that get off on male attention and will do whatever it takes to get that attention. A woman with healthy self-esteem simply does not act like that in public. This woman must be extremely insecure, and extremely manipulative as a result of that insecurity to act like that.

 

So a 37 old woman can't flirt with a younger guy? Now all of a sudden she is a pedophile? Her job as a principle has nothing to do with her time off work.. She can do whatever she wants outside her job. She is not a slave to her job.. 

She was drunk and flirted with someone who looked cute. Only means she is not that interested in Op or she doesn't behave well when she is drunk.

Your judgment of other women are too harsh and not all women should behave the same way , and they shouldn't behave a certain way because they are 50 or 40 or 60. 

Every woman is different. We should stop using age as definition to people's behavior. 

and some people behave badly with alcohol, that's why such people shouldn't drink alcohol!

 

also some people like to chat with others and be touchy feely without meaning to flirt, they are just like that.

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Noproblem

[salparadise]

10 hours ago, Watercolors said:

I always respect your opinion salparadise. But in this case, I just have to disagree with you that she deserves a second chance.

Not what I said. Those are your words, that you're trying to attribute to me. I said, look at the larger perspective and make a well considered decision... because things are almost certainly more complex than presented here. It's one of those situations where you have the option until you use it. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by salparadise

[Acacia98]

14 hours ago, philthebill said:

TL;DR So basically she lost my trust and disrespected me, and really liked her and now feeling like I am in two minds..... what do you guys think, am I doing the right thing ?

When you have the good fortune to get insight into what someone is actually like in your earliest interactions, thank your lucky stars and pay attention to the information.

Here, you have someone who behaves a particular way when she's been drinking and, knowing that, she continues to drink. So you can certainly expect more incidents of this kind from her in the future. The only real question here is whether you want to experience this kind of situation again.

[schlumpy]

1 hour ago, Noproblem said:

So a 37 old woman can't flirt with a younger guy? Now all of a sudden she is a pedophile? Her job as a principle has nothing to do with her time off work.. She can do whatever she wants outside her job. She is not a slave to her job.. 

I don't disagree with your points about her actions and character. Something was going on but it's unlikely the truth will be revealed.

I do think you should reconsider your statement about her personal activities not affecting her job. An education professional is often looked up to in many cultures and and scandalous behavior of their part can cause difficulties for them at their workplace because they represent an institution. Parents are very touchy as to the character of the people they entrust their flesh and blood too. 

I'm not saying it is rational or fair. I'm saying that's the way it is. It only takes a couple of parents to ruin your career in education.

Most of my working life I had  a company vehicle. I worked for a large school system. If I got speeding tickets while on my own time, I could lose my job. Every five years I had to pass a FBI background check. Domestic violence would have been enough to put me on the street.

I get your point. We all like to believe that our time is ours to do with as we wish but that's not always the case for a lot of people in positions of public trust.

[Wiseman2]

16 hours ago, philthebill said:

Her only explanation was that she was drunk, and apart from that has offered no explanation.

Sometimes red flags like this don't show up until later. But when this happened, you did the right thing.

RUN.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Wiseman2

[Zona]

20 hours ago, major_merrick said:

In the future, dating somebody who makes more money than you is probably not a good idea.  I know this is the 21st century and that's not supposed to matter, but not being in the protector/provider role tends to weaken your position in terms of instinct and biology.  

Very insightful and well put. Younger dudes need to wrap their heads around this. There is even a word for it, hypergamy. 

It's not just money, it's also status. How many times do you see a successful white collar professional woman married to or dating a plumber or heavy-duty diesel mechanic (even though they make good money)? Very rare.

Sad really. I have a ton of respect for blue-collar trades people. They are gifted at what they do.

 

I don't usually quote Urban Dictionary, but it this case they sum it up nicely.

Quote

Evolutionary Psychology theory on the instinctual desire of humans of the female sex to discard a current mate when the opportunity arises to latch onto a subsequent mate of higher status due to the hindbrain impetus to find a male with the best ability to provide for her OWN offspring (already spawned or yet-to-be spawned) regardless of investments and commitments made to a current mate.

And before I get slammed, of course not all women are hyper-hypergamous, but like all instinct based behaviors, they linger even as society changes.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Zona

[SumGuy]

21 hours ago, philthebill said:

Her only explanation was that she was drunk, and apart from that has offered no explanation.

...and the next time she is drunk?  in vino veritas.  Another more modern saying...trust is a not a boomerang, once you throw it away it doesn't come back.

Being drunk doesn't absolve you of your behavior, not under the law nor in relationships in my book.   You did the right thing in my view.  

[SumGuy]

15 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

It wasn't attraction flirting...

Good lord.

Exactly

If her behavior wasn't attraction flirting I wonder what is !

Another aphorism....her actions speak louder than her words

Edited October 25, 2020 by SumGuy

[poppyfields]

17 hours ago, Erik30 said:

I would've left her at the restaurant... 

Yeah me too.  No question!   Her behavior was extremely disrespectful to you and your relationship. 

There is a saying in today's dating culture "We teach people how to treat us."

By leaving, you would have "taught" her, quietly with no drama, that her behaviour was flat our unacceptable.  Period, end of.

That said, people do make mistakes, lord knows I've made plenty.  Nothing like what you've described but I've done some dumb things that I regretted.  And learned from those mistakes.   Never repeated.

However, you are only three months into this, very early stages.  Which is the time to observe.  To determine if someone is the right fit for you long term.

No matter her intention, her behavior in general reflects lack of proper boundaries, immaturity, poor judgment and most importantly imo, a severe drinking problem!  

I'm sure she feels quite remorseful. People who engage in egregious behavior due to drinking typically do.

Putting myself in your shoes, so early in, I'd probably walk but your call.

If you choose to stay, continue observing.   Especially the drinking.  If you sense a problem, then walk.  

I've given second chances and the behavior sometimes repeated, and sometimes it did not.  

It's all a risk, risk versus reward.  Ask yourself if you stay, what would the risk be?  What would the reward be?  

Again, your call and best of luck whatever you decide.  Keep us posted!  

 

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by poppyfields

[Miss Spider]

Sounds super classy 

[Beachead]

Hey OP,

I'm sorry this woman put you through that.    

There is one good thing about this.  

She gave you a clear reason to drop her without any guilt and regret.  Going forward, if you feel that doubt, guilt or regret about your decision, you just remember how you felt that night, and all will be taken care of.

Good riddens

- Beach

[Noproblem]

12 hours ago, schlumpy said:

I don't disagree with your points about her actions and character. Something was going on but it's unlikely the truth will be revealed.

I do think you should reconsider your statement about her personal activities not affecting her job. An education professional is often looked up to in many cultures and and scandalous behavior of their part can cause difficulties for them at their workplace because they represent an institution. Parents are very touchy as to the character of the people they entrust their flesh and blood too. 

I'm not saying it is rational or fair. I'm saying that's the way it is. It only takes a couple of parents to ruin your career in education.

Most of my working life I had  a company vehicle. I worked for a large school system. If I got speeding tickets while on my own time, I could lose my job. Every five years I had to pass a FBI background check. Domestic violence would have been enough to put me on the street.

I get your point. We all like to believe that our time is ours to do with as we wish but that's not always the case for a lot of people in positions of public trust.

I get what you are saying, I too when I hopefully graduate, will be a health professional and they told us that we shouldn't share on social media anything that can ruin our career later.

However,  all she did was talking with a guy  in a bar for 10 minutes and touched his hair. Who says he didn't have a bug or fall leaf on his hair at that moment and she wanted to get rid of it

That's not a scandalous behavior, not in any dictionary this a scandalous behavior. As for the part where she turned to her date and said I make more money than you, it's seems like a childish bragging!

What she did was a lousy behavior for someone who is dating another person.

Op should by all means stop seeing her! But I don't think what she did mean she is bad at her job as a principle. She didn't fight with anyone, she didn't hit anyone, she did not strip or do anything riskee. she talked with a guy who wasn't her date and during the convo touched his hair..

 

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Noproblem

[Watercolors]

1 hour ago, Noproblem said:

I get what you are saying, I too when I hopefully graduate, will be a health professional and they told us that we shouldn't share on social media anything that can ruin our career later.

However,  all she did was talking with a guy  in a bar for 10 minutes and touched his hair. Who says he didn't have a bug or fall leaf on his hair at that moment and she wanted to get rid of it

That's not a scandalous behavior, not in any dictionary this a scandalous behavior. As for the part where she turned to her date and said I make more money than you, it's seems like a childish bragging!

What she did was a lousy behavior for someone who is dating another person.

Op should by all means stop seeing her! But I don't think what she did mean she is bad at her job as a principle. She didn't fight with anyone, she didn't hit anyone, she did not strip or do anything riskee. she talked with a guy who wasn't her date and during the convo touched his hair..

 

 

She was not touching the guy's hair because there was something in it. She was completely drunk, told the OP she thought the guy was handsome, then told the OP how cute the other guy's haircut was, outloud, as she ran her fingers through his hair. In front of the other guy's girlfriend.

Of course its scandalous behavior.

So, you can't contradict yourself by stating that her behavior was not scandalous then say it was, when it actually was scandalous for the entire evening.

And you can't jump to the conclusion that she is great at her job either. You don't know her. Neither do we. But, one can easily conclude that if this is how she acts outside of work hours, she definitely has some serious social skill problems in her work-day life. No one NORMAL behaves the way this woman behaved on her date with the OP.

[major_merrick]

@ZonaI would say that the OP witnessed a classic example of hypergamy.  The average guy has to date below his own level or many girls will leave or cheat with little reasoning behind it.  Our society used to have expectations regarding the behavior on men and women.  Those expectations involved social disapproval, and thus limited tom-catting and hypergamy.  But now that those things are acceptable, it is common for men to shirk responsibility and women chase their desires of the moment.  Not stable at all.  And for the men who want to be responsible and the women who want to settle, it seems like getting them together in the same space is damn near impossible because nobody wants to do the matchmaking, and other forces are actively trying to sabotage their efforts.   

[Zona]

2 hours ago, major_merrick said:

 many girls will leave or cheat with little reasoning behind it.  

I've scratched my head over this for quite some time, trying to figure out why women initiate 70 to 80% of divorces, and why millennial women cheat more than millennial men. Sometimes (husband cheats, or gets drunk all the time, etc.) divorce is totally justified but I think there is more to it than that.

This author, who is a marriage counselor,  thinks it's because women thought they wanted more sensitive and "feminine" men, but ultimately realize they actually prefer masculine men, because they are more attracted to them sexually. She details how many women cheat on or leave "good men" for more masculine guys. It's like, hey you are a fantastic person, but you don't get my motor running.

It's from 2014 but worth a read:

Why Great Husbands Are Being Abandoned

Sounds like a lot of them try to get back with the nice-guy ex after realizing the hotpants guy is not the easiest to live with (and probably cheats like crazy). Apparently the ex-husbands aren't too eager to take them back which is understandable. Shame that families are getting blown up by all this.

Crazy world we live in. It was smart for OP to walk away from this woman.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Zona

[Noproblem]

5 hours ago, Watercolors said:

She was not touching the guy's hair because there was something in it. She was completely drunk, told the OP she thought the guy was handsome, then told the OP how cute the other guy's haircut was, outloud, as she ran her fingers through his hair. In front of the other guy's girlfriend.

Of course its scandalous behavior.

So, you can't contradict yourself by stating that her behavior was not scandalous then say it was, when it actually was scandalous for the entire evening.

And you can't jump to the conclusion that she is great at her job either. You don't know her. Neither do we. But, one can easily conclude that if this is how she acts outside of work hours, she definitely has some serious social skill problems in her work-day life. No one NORMAL behaves the way this woman behaved on her date with the OP.

You were the one who judged her job badly in the first place .. this is what you said earlier: " Yikes. I wouldn't send my child to her elementary school"

So just like we can't know if she is good at her job, we don't know if she bad at it either. 

and I didn't contradict myself. I said her actions were lousy toward her date, but not scandalous if we look at it as some woman talking with a guy and touching his hair in a bar.

Touching someone hair (for whatever reason) during a conversation is not scandalous! 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Noproblem

[Acacia98]

6 minutes ago, Noproblem said:

Touching someone hair (for whatever reason) during a conversation is not scandalous! 

Oh, it can be. For instance, if the person with the hair doesn't want to be touched.

And I'm thinking this must be a cultural thing, because my first instinct would be to slap a relative stranger who tried to touch my hair or face.

[Noproblem]

24 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

Oh, it can be. For instance, if the person with the hair doesn't want to be touched.

And I'm thinking this must be a cultural thing, because my first instinct would be to slap a relative stranger who tried to touch my hair or face.

 

 

My problem with the word Scandalous

scan·dal·ous /ˈskandləs/ adjective : causing general public outrage by a perceived offense against morality or law

 

I don't think what she did constitutes that.. 

 

Yes, she shouldn't touch someone's hair without permission or any part of someone's else body. In the story, we don't know if the other guy was mad or happy or anything.. We know they talked for like 10 minutes, the guy who accompanied this woman was excluded from the convo and at some point, she touched his hair because she thought it was cute  and at another point she turned to her date and said I make more money than you., then at the end she wanted her date to be her bf..
Totally the actions of someone who has drunk so much and doesn't know what they are doing. She should have known better and not get drunk if she behaves irrationally when she drinks alcohol. 

However, remember that couple changed their place to sit next to them, so maybe the guy wanted to sit next to this woman in the first place and it was his intention to interact/flirt with her! Also, the guy actually was going out with a girl who has a bf, so he wasn't with his gf if I understood that part of the story correctly. 

Remember also, this was their first time going out drinking, she and her date. 

 

Maybe this woman who we are calling her behavior "scandalous" and we are saying she  shouldn't be a principle , is just one of these funny or free spirited girls and I am sure you have seen your share of them in your life, they act without malicious intentions or seduction in their mind, they don't conform to society ideas of what proper or the norm, yet with time you know they don't mean bad at all! Yeah she said he was handsome, because that's how she operates, she is honest and says what ever in her heart. 

Or maybe she was nervous because it was their first time drinking together and she drunk too much! 

Or maybe she wanted to make him jealous but she overdid it

or maybe she is just a crazy person

who knows..

and to repeat. I don't approve anyone touching other person's hair or any part without permission. 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Noproblem

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 hours ago, Zona said:

I've scratched my head over this for quite some time, trying to figure out why women initiate 70 to 80% of divorces, and why millennial women cheat more than millennial men. Sometimes (husband cheats, or gets drunk all the time, etc.) divorce is totally justified but I think there is more to it than that.

This author, who is a marriage counselor,  thinks it's because women thought they wanted more sensitive and "feminine" men, but ultimately realize they actually prefer masculine men, because they are more attracted to them sexually. She details how many women cheat on or leave "good men" for more masculine guys. It's like, hey you are a fantastic person, but you don't get my motor running.

It's from 2014 but worth a read:

Why Great Husbands Are Being Abandoned

Sounds like a lot of them try to get back with the nice-guy ex after realizing the hotpants guy is not the easiest to live with (and probably cheats like crazy). Apparently the ex-husbands aren't too eager to take them back which is understandable. Shame that families are getting blown up by all this.

Crazy world we live in. It was smart for OP to walk away from this woman.

This article immediately makes a tactical error. Husbands aren't sharing the housework and child-rearing to anywhere near the "great husband" extent she describes.

In fact, it is often this that drives wives crazy and sends them running: today's wives work outside the home AND assume far more of the home tasks.

Women don't run from awesome egalitarian husbands because they're not sexy. They do become incredibly bitter when after marriage, equal relationships tilt drastically. Which only makes sense. 

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319687

[Acacia98]

1 hour ago, Noproblem said:

 

 

My problem with the word Scandalous

scan·dal·ous /ˈskandləs/ adjective : causing general public outrage by a perceived offense against morality or law

 

I don't think what she did constitutes that.. 

 

Yes, she shouldn't touch someone's hair without permission or any part of someone's else body. In the story, we don't know if the other guy was mad or happy or anything.. We know they talked for like 10 minutes, the guy who accompanied this woman was excluded from the convo and at some point, she touched his hair because she thought it was cute  and at another point she turned to her date and said I make more money than you., then at the end she wanted her date to be her bf..
Totally the actions of someone who has drunk so much and doesn't know what they are doing. She should have known better and not get drunk if she behaves irrationally when she drinks alcohol. 

However, remember that couple changed their place to sit next to them, so maybe the guy wanted to sit next to this woman in the first place and it was his intention to interact/flirt with her! Also, the guy actually was going out with a girl who has a bf, so he wasn't with his gf if I understood that part of the story correctly. 

Remember also, this was their first time going out drinking, she and her date. 

 

Maybe this woman who we are calling her behavior "scandalous" and we are saying she  shouldn't be a principle , is just one of these funny or free spirited girls and I am sure you have seen your share of them in your life, they act without malicious intentions or seduction in their mind, they don't conform to society ideas of what proper or the norm, yet with time you know they don't mean bad at all! Yeah she said he was handsome, because that's how she operates, she is honest and says what ever in her heart. 

Or maybe she was nervous because it was their first time drinking together and she drunk too much! 

Or maybe she wanted to make him jealous but she overdid it

or maybe she is just a crazy person

who knows..

and to repeat. I don't approve anyone touching other person's hair or any part without permission. 

I was just responding to your general statement that touching someone's hair wasn't scandalous by pointing out that, under certain circumstances, it could be.

Personally, I haven't called her scandalous or said that she shouldn't be a principal. I'm still not sure what I think about that. But I don't think her behavior is free-spirited or harmless. The drinking brought out her mean streak: it made her go out of her way to put her date down and humiliate him in public.