Miss Spider Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) Maybe I fall under the ‘naive’ category, but I don’t agree with dog eat dog. Sure. people that have more generally desirable characteristics might generally have more options to choose from. But some of them still want to meet someone they have a deep connection with and fall in love. As a user basil67 often says here, we get what we deserve. In this case, it’s about about finding your match, not stomping over people to win some prize person Edited October 23, 2020 by Cookiesandough
Trail Blazer Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 5 hours ago, MeadowFlower said: Oh wait.. So a guy would drop everything with the woman he supposedly loves, just because the sex isn't perfectly compatible. How lame, and that is NOT love. Furthermore, you can have some understanding of sexual compatibility, without actually having sex. I think it's important to try before you buy. Only the severely religiously indoctrinated think waiting to have sex until after you are married is a sound decision to make. 1
Trail Blazer Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 13 hours ago, basil67 said: Ok sure. But the OP took the time to explain that she’s not using sex to manipulate - rather, she just doesn’t want to sleep with all and sundry and, by extension, their partners. So how is this statement relevant to her experience? How is it not!? OP can say whatever she likes, it's the perception the person on the other end gets which is pretintent. Understanding where a lot of men are at is extremely relevant here. How would a guy know what the reasons are for a woman to seemingly withhold sex when initially dating? If she's attracted to him and everything else is going well - why the lack of sex? Unless she comes out and states that she's religious, there really isn't any reason to not have sex which is also discernable to a guy. It could be because she's being careful, but it also could be because she's being manipulative. If I'm multi-dating and given the choice between a number of women, the all things being equal, the one who has sex first is going to win out. If OP is dating in-damand men, she will routinely fall short compared to women who are having sex earlier in the piece. 1
CaliforniaGirl Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Trail Blazer said: How is it not!? OP can say whatever she likes, it's the perception the person on the other end gets which is pretintent. Understanding where a lot of men are at is extremely relevant here. How would a guy know what the reasons are for a woman to seemingly withhold sex when initially dating? If she's attracted to him and everything else is going well - why the lack of sex? Unless she comes out and states that she's religious, there really isn't any reason to not have sex which is also discernable to a guy. It could be because she's being careful, but it also could be because she's being manipulative. If I'm multi-dating and given the choice between a number of women, the all things being equal, the one who has sex first is going to win out. If OP is dating in-damand men, she will routinely fall short compared to women who are having sex earlier in the piece. ^ This is how you feel about it (the first one to have sex "wins out") but what if she doesn't want someone like you? She has her own type, right? I don't know any men who are this undiscerning. They want who they want, not the first girl who puts out. I don't want to sound mean but that sounds almost kind of desperate...you're not going to go for a woman who's special, you're going to grab for the first girl willing to sleep with you? I mean I am not going to judge if that is what you mean because everyone is different but that may not be the type of man the OP is looking for. I just think it's kind of irresponsible to hint to a woman that of she doesn't habe sex fast whether she feels ready or not, then some other woman is going to "win out." OMG, that was the guy-bluff in high school. Stop... OP...please...DON'T jump in the sack because a guy will stick around due to that....cone on, when has that ever been a thing???? Edited October 24, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 1
CaliforniaGirl Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 Just now, CaliforniaGirl said: ^ This is how you feel about it (the first one to have sex "wins out") but what if she doesn't want someone like you? She has her own type, right? I don't know any men who are this undiscerning. They want who they want, not the first girl who puts out. I don't want to sound mean but that sounds almost kind of desperate...you're not going to go for a woman who's special, you're going to grab for the first girl willing to sleep with you and that is good enough, you drop the rest? I mean I am not going to judge if that is what you mean (is it??) because everyone is different but that may not be the type of man the OP is looking for. I just think it's kind of irresponsible to hint to a woman that if she doesn't have sex fast whether she feels ready or not, then some other woman is going to "win out." OMG, that was the guy-bluff in high school. Stop... OP...please...DON'T jump in the sack because a guy will stick around due to that....cone on, when has that ever been a thing???? You do it fast and that's what makes the man fall for you? Good lord, people. We did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday.
basil67 Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Trail Blazer said: How would a guy know what the reasons are for a woman to seemingly withhold sex when initially dating? If she's attracted to him and everything else is going well - why the lack of sex? How would a guy know what the reasons are? If he was dating me, he'd know because I'd tell him how I feel. I'm an open book. I've said before that I would not sleep with someone who's multi dating. Dating only one person at a time has long been a cultural norm where I live, but is changing these days. So, if I found myself single and dating again.....and really liked a guy, I'd let him know that I'm very attracted to him and am very much looking forward to sex when I know that I'm the only one he's seeing. If he wasn't OK with that, then he's not the guy for me. Edited October 24, 2020 by basil67 5 1
Ruby Slippers Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 11 hours ago, major_merrick said: THIS ^^^^ These days, it seems to me that women who are still single have their standards way to high. There are LOTS of single men out there who want to find somebody to marry but literally have no choices. Much of this is for socio-economic reasons. The powers-that-be have marketed a certain way of life to women - that they can have career, family, and a guy who is not only wealthy but will give them everything they want. Many women seem perpetually dissatisfied, when that dissatisfaction in their lives has been created by marketing. I'm in my mid-30's, and I started to settle down a few years back. I changed the parameters of what I was looking for in a relationship (I eliminated the idea monogamy....not for everybody, but it worked for me.) I stopped looking for one single person who would satisfy all my needs. I married an old childhood friend. Not the most stunning or athletic guy on the block or one who shares all my views, but he's a stable and trustworthy choice. I should have done all of this years ago. I'd say that you should re-evaluate what you are looking for in a partner (or partners). Sit down and make a list. Find out what character trait is your priority, and what other things you are willing to overlook in order to obtain that #1 thing. I have ultimately been dissatisfied with the men I've been involved with. But I'm not dissatisfied with being single. 99 out of 100 posts by women on this forum about their relationships only reinforce my happiness in doing my own thing. Most of the single women you consider dissatisfied are very aware we could settle for some guy. We don't because we don't want to. We're happier single than bogged down by compromise. I'm glad you're happy in your choice. It would be nice if you could be happy for instead of judgmental of others who choose differently. 1
Trail Blazer Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 1 hour ago, basil67 said: How would a guy know what the reasons are? If he was dating me, he'd know because I'd tell him how I feel. I'm an open book. I've said before that I would not sleep with someone who's multi dating. Dating only one person at a time has long been a cultural norm where I live, but is changing these days. So, if I found myself single and dating again.....and really liked a guy, I'd let him know that I'm very attracted to him and am very much looking forward to sex when I know that I'm the only one he's seeing. If he wasn't OK with that, then he's not the guy for me. And how would you broach this topic in practical reality? At what point along the lines with this discussion come up?
basil67 Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said: And how would you broach this topic in practical reality? At what point along the lines with this discussion come up? I would have established early on if he's dating others. If he was, I might well stop seeing him then and there. But If I persisted, I would have a discussion when things started to get heated. Edited October 24, 2020 by basil67 1
major_merrick Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said: I'm glad you're happy in your choice. It would be nice if you could be happy for instead of judgmental of others who choose differently. I'm glad you're happy with being single. My comments are directed toward the women who bemoan their singleness, when it is their choosiness and dissatisfaction that keeps them single (or not searching in a productive way.) The OP doesn't seem content to remain single. I know there's some truth to the idea that being single is better than having a bad partner. But what exactly defines a bad partner? One thing I've learned about this life is that "you can't have it all." At a certain point, if you want a partner you've got to put up with a lot of things that are less than ideal. There's lots of things that have irritated me about my husband over the years. I've made threads on this forum about it at times. But I'm far better with him than without him, and taking as long as I did to realize that fact is one of my big regrets. Edited October 24, 2020 by major_merrick
CaliforniaGirl Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 21 minutes ago, basil67 said: I would have established early on if he's dating others. If he was, I might well stop seeing him then and there. But If I persisted, I would have a discussion when things started to get heated. Yup, simple. All you need to do is bring this stuff up. Why would that be hard? Dating apps even do this.for you. LTR..."make new friends..." or whatever, and if not pretty much stating that there's not going to be a long-term future...you just ask..."do you date multiple people?" How could that be hard?" It is literally one question and any grownup will make sure to be roughly on.the same page as the other person. Wondering...not being sure...playing games....trying to "time" the sex...just why?
elaine567 Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 I do think that some men do appear angry as regards the perceived success "women" have on OLD ie success counted in numbers as opposed to. actual dating success. They see the constant discarding of "good guys" including themselves that women have to do on OLD and get annoyed and ultimately bitter. They then use sex to get back at women by either discarding her after sex or by cheating on her or by generally behaving badly. They in this way feel they can take back some of that power lost when he was and still probably is only contemplating a mere handful of "unsuitable" matches... I put "women" in inverted commas because not ALL women on OLD are, knee-deep in interested men. The "too old", the "too fat", the "too ugly", the average, the mediocre, the nothing special... But they never enter the equation, it is all about the hotties with hundreds of messages and how it is all so unfair to men The part most men fail to quote from that OKCupid study - "2/3 of all male messages were going to the top 1/3 of women"... So great if you are a top third women, not so great if you are "average" then, but that obviously spoils the narrative... 1
Wiseman2 Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 11 hours ago, CalipsoRose said: I really dont think I am purposely picking cheaters. I log onto the dating apps and I swipe right on probably 1 out of 50 or 100 men based on my attraction to them which is purely subjective. I start a conversation with that guy and maybe 1 out of 5 of those guys in my DMs who I have swiped right on, I decide to meet in person for a date. By date 2 or 3 I have decided that I really like them and could see myself in a relationship with them otherwise they dont get more than 1-2 dates with me. So by the time I have "chosen" a guy for a potential relationship, he is in the 00.01% of my screening process. Hence why I get so disappointed when hes out seeing other women after a certain amount of time. But am I purposely picking cheaters? No, and if I am then I dont see how I am attracting them on purpose. No one "picks" cheaters. You just have poor dating strategies. You are on hookup apps, jump in way too quickly, then let yourself be set up for disappointment. 1
Ruby Slippers Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 9 hours ago, major_merrick said: At a certain point, if you want a partner you've got to put up with a lot of things that are less than ideal. We're in agreement here. At this point in time I feel happy that I don't have the "putting up with" burden.
Be Cool Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 By the way, I don't agree with OP about the fact that women are at a disadvantage on OLD. From my personal point of view, it's OLD where at least 80% of men are losers. Because on OLD, 80% of women are ignoring 80% of men to (hopefully) try and get the attention of 20% of Chads. So, unless the "disadvantage-ness" OP meant was about women vs Chad (which is true), then I don't agree with her. 1
Author CalipsoRose Posted October 24, 2020 Author Posted October 24, 2020 The thing is, throughout my 20s I have rarely withheld sex. I have had sex on the first date before and on the 6th date, it has had a different timeline with each guy but I cant remember many instances where I have waited longer than a month, it almost always happened before that. So thats why I was basically asking initially if I should be waiting longer just to protect my heart, not as manipulation, so that i can find a guy who actually wants what I want. But regardless of how soon I had sex, I found out the guy was still seeing other women, and when I bring up the "exlusivity" talk or "relationship" talk, I am labeled desperate or thats when you start noticing their behavior towards you change (less interested) or they ghost or whatever other weird inconsistent behavior they do. Based on what I have read here by some guys, apparently they do this because they think I am being manipulative, which is just plain sad because its not true. Anyway. Right now I have been single for 2 months, not dating anyone. I am working on myself and I suppose the only thing to do when I go back out on the dating scene is to just play it by ear and when the topic comes up, tell him what I am looking for. The right guy will be on the same page with me. The only issue with this is, guys in the past have said they want the same thing as me but its a lie and its difficult to decipher truth from lies when he's acting one way but doing another behind your back.
Mystery4u Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) When I first started dating my ex, she told me straight up nothing physical was going to happen unless we were exclusive and in a relationship. I was used to having sex with a woman before deciding whether to turn it into a relationship, so I was a bit confused whether to continue. I respected her though because she knew her worth, and would not let just anyone have access to her amazing body. I decided that she was worth the wait. We dated for 2 months before I asked her to be my girlfriend. Another 2 months later we had sex for the first time. So OP, yes guys that you are looking for DO exist. You just haven't met the right one yet. Also you are using OLD and expecting something serious to develop.. which is a mistake. 90% of guys who use OLD to swipe everyone, are using it to try and find someone to have sex with. It's the only reason I ever used it, and the only reason any of my friends use it. The one time I met someone from OLD, we had sex on the first day of meeting, and many more times in the days that followed. That's what we both wanted, and why we used the app in the first place. Anything serious happening via OLD is an exception, not the rule. I've never had problems getting girlfriends, and ALL of them I met in real life, no OLD rubbish. Edited October 24, 2020 by Mystery4u 1
Miss Spider Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) I know married women who have slept with their husband on the first date and women who have waited months to sleep with them. So I don’t think when you have sex has that much to do with it. of course, I don’t know many on the far ends scale ( a super long time or right away.) However, I personally believe that men develop feelings the most/strongest before sex, during that “chase” stage. That is just what I believe. Not to say they don’t continue to grow after Maybe look at something else. Like what else you’re bringing to the table and if you’re really connecting with these people genuinely in ways other than sexually. Mysterio also brings up a good point. I’m sure there are a lot of men online that are looking for sex only because it’s an easier way to get it. I think you should try a different avenue to find some thing as well. The really great men I’ve known know have never even used OLD. They do not need to because they have so much interest in real life that they are rarely single long enough to go there. Anyway, best of luck Edited October 24, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes 1
Author CalipsoRose Posted October 24, 2020 Author Posted October 24, 2020 I think theres a misconception about so called Chads when it comes to online dating. A decent looking man with a good job = Chad? Because if you are talking about the 80% of men who get turned down by women on the dating sites who cant seem to get any woman to be interested in them...then usually that means the man isnt attractive at all to any of those women, or they have something about their profile that is turning the majority of women off in the first place. So even a semi-decent man is getting interest from multiple women. 1
Miss Spider Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) The whole Chad thing is a fallacy. But you’re looking at the dating website data, it actually is the average are slightly above average looking dudes that are getting the most interest( messages). I don’t think I want to date a dude that could not get interest from multiple women Edited October 24, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes
mark clemson Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 9 hours ago, elaine567 said: The part most men fail to quote from that OKCupid study - "2/3 of all male messages were going to the top 1/3 of women"... So great if you are a top third women, not so great if you are "average" then, but that obviously spoils the narrative... I'm no so sure about the rest of your post, but I think this is certainly a fair point. Women may be even more choosey than men, but that doesn't mean men aren't choosey, and a few are quite choosey. 1
Miss Spider Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 Yes, particularly for LTR, which is what 0P seems to be looking for
Author CalipsoRose Posted October 24, 2020 Author Posted October 24, 2020 This is true. I want a man who is wanted by other women since that shows he is a high value mate, but this gets tricky when he doesnt STOP dealing with the other women once he decides to stick with you. There IS an epidemic of this going on today, many of my female friends realize it too. It is just to easy to window shop today. So unless you are Wonder Woman and "tick ALL of the boxes, dont you dare have a flaw that another woman doesn't have" then yeah, most of those guys justify in their minds that they can keep getting validation from all angles.
mark clemson Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, CalipsoRose said: I think theres a misconception about so called Chads when it comes to online dating. A decent looking man with a good job = Chad? Well, you yourself did say you only choose 1 out of 50-100 men and then only 1 in 5 of those. Maybe the real problem is the guys who are perpetually on OLD old are simply not that appealing and/or are dysfunctional in some way once you get to know them? It is true that the "Chad" concept was popularized by the incels, who tend to have a very black/white view of these things. I think that now and in this thread people just mean "an attractive man" by it, not a "super-attractive-can-get-any-woman-they-are-taking-numbers" man. Some guys who DON'T have a hard time dating due to things like their career, status, or strong social skills, are probably not Chads either. Edited October 24, 2020 by mark clemson
poppyfields Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) CalipsoR, jmo but I don't think there is a way to protect your heart, short of not dating at all. You must be willing to take the risk and know you will be OK no matter what the outcome. That's the key to smart dating imo. Not devising different strategies or methods to protect your heart (like waiting to have sex, etc), but rather becoming resilient and knowing you will be okay no matter what happens, and keep going. The ability to bounce back from disappointment and soldier on is more important than any sort of strategy to protect yourself imo and experience. Be genuine, be real, stay true to yourself. If you feel a connection and want to have sex, go for it. Enjoy! Get rid of strategies and don't play games. Simply do YOU as they say. Genuinely, authentically. Detach from the outcome, enjoy the moment and allow the Universe or whatever your belief to lead you to wherever and whomever you're meant to be with. That's my philosophy, always has been. I've made mistakes, gotten hurt. But I'm fine, not bitter, not jaded, because I always knew that no matter what happened, whatever choice I made, whether it worked out or not, I would be OK. Stronger, wiser even. Edited October 24, 2020 by poppyfields 1
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