Women are the gatekeepers of sex, men are the gatekeepers of commitment?

[Chilli]

3 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

Sorry but what that guy wrote sounds like some TRP simp bs.  Plenty of men  want commitment. Otherwise, you wouldn’t see them in relationships. As for sex, a guy that really likes will respect your wishes to wait. Don’t use it to get someone to commit though or you’ll probably be disappointed. 

 

Yeah fully agree.

Doesn't matter what some guy wrote on some forum op or what 20 guys wrote.  As above is the reality and this is coming from a male 50s. Known a lot more guys over the yrs that would want a relationship , far more , than don't.. But it is true though that much has changed in this mad world of these days but one big thing that'd be effecting you at your age now too is your age and of the guys your meeting.  20s is pretty young for guys these days , even in women settling down or having kids is far later these days and well into 30s is very very common .

 

 

 

 

[Maldives]

Well for me being a guy I don't commit until I can trust her and know she's genuine. If she's just in it for her own agenda re a commitment that's the turn off for a lot of men it's not were afraid of commitment it's the sincerity behind it. Are you gonna be by our side through good and bad or are you gonna split because you've reached your experaration date waiting. If you can get what I'm saying here and I can't speak for all men were all different. There is nothing in my eyes thats genuine about a woman waiting around on a guy to commit to her and then decides to end it. We pick up on it too and sense it and hence do the opposite 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Goodguy05

[Be Cool]

I agree 100% with Trail Blazer.

The whole thing about "Women are gatekeepers of sex. And men are gatekeepers of commitment" is all about the natural difference in the two genders, given their natural functions, desire and mindset when it comes to the game of dating.

 

[Be Cool]

As a guy myself, when I start dating someone, what I am looking for, is the pure experience of dating itself: fun, unstessful and relaxing time spent with a woman who smells and dresses good when she shows up, no matter at the restaurant or my doorstep so we can have some fun indoor olympic game. And that's it. 

I'm not saying "wanting a relationship/commitment" is bad. No, it's totally ok and fair. But it SHOULD BE something that develops NATURALLY much much later, when both parties feel like it, not something that either one brings to the table as a bargaining mechanism.

If I, for whatever reasons, "smell" that the woman I'm spending my time/money/energy with in our dates, is intentionally withholding sex just to make me at least verbally become committed to her, then I would NEXT her in an instance. Because to me, dating is supposed to be fun, and being over-burdened with a huge desire right from the start from my date (a "relationship/commitment") is not fun, even dishonest.

My past relationships all stemmed from the fact that I came for the sex, but eventually stayed for the relationships.

[CaliforniaGirl]

35 minutes ago, Goodguy05 said:

Well for me being a guy I don't commit until I can trust her and know she's genuine. If she's just in it for her own agenda re a commitment that's the turn off for a lot of men it's not were afraid of commitment it's the sincerity behind it. Are you gonna be by our side through good and bad or are you gonna split because you've reached your experaration date waiting. If you can get what I'm saying here and I can't speak for all men were all different. There is nothing in my eyes thats genuine about a woman waiting around on a guy to commit to her and then decides to end it. We pick up on it too and sense it and hence do the opposite 

This sounds reasonable to me. 

A person can know he or she is relationship-oriented but nobody wants to feel like he is just filing that slot or whatever.

You want something sincere and genuine.

I can't see why it can't be both. People often ask one another near the relationship what they're basically looking for. And they should. Something casual, a relationship, just sex, whatever.

But that doesn't mean that particular person will be "it"... It isn't a job interview...you know you're on the same page and that you're attracted..and you start dating. And maybe it will grow.

All the formulas and cliches and the gatekeeper stuff and leagues and all that...you'll just have yourself running around in circles. People aren't formulas. But I really think the OP already knows that, I think she just needed some words of encouragement.

Edited October 23, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[Be Cool]

5 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

Sorry but what that guy wrote sounds like some TRP simp bs.  Plenty of men  want commitment. Otherwise, you wouldn’t see them in relationships. As for sex, a guy that really likes will respect your wishes to wait. 

The bolded part: Yes, he does.

But not only guys whol "really like" you, but also guy who are not that into you would happily "respect your wish" to withhold sex because, let's be honest, he can have sex elsewhere in the mean time. 

And, if you, by any chance, define "respect your wishes to wait (for sex)" is the same as "not having sex with anyone else at the same time even given the chance" then you're going to have a bad time. 

As Trail Blazer said, reality does not alter itself to match our subjective wishes. That's a fact.

 

 

[Be Cool]

Let's be honest, that no matter you're a man or a woman, a "commitment/relationship" thingy, often times, is too much a burden to handle.

It's should be something that develops naturally during the later course of dating. We "build" a relationship by going into dates, which include everything from dining out, having sex to arguments.

During that period, some will make it, some won't, but for people who won't make it, it just means that they are not suitable to "build" a relationship with one another and that they should do it elsewhere with someone else.

In all cases, a commitment/relationship is always the RESULT, not the CAUSE, of dating.

[Wiseman2]

Sorry to hear that.

First of all, get off swiping free hookup style dating apps.

Second make sure you are getting appropriate evaluation and care for your depression.

Third stop reading manosphere material and using their terms such as "chad", etc.

Your experience is highly irregular. Quit the hookup apps. Quit buying into internet trash and manosphere musings

[Trail Blazer]

43 minutes ago, Be Cool said:

As a guy myself, when I start dating someone, what I am looking for, is the pure experience of dating itself: fun, unstessful and relaxing time spent with a woman who smells and dresses good when she shows up, no matter at the restaurant or my doorstep so we can have some fun indoor olympic game. And that's it. 

I'm not saying "wanting a relationship/commitment" is bad. No, it's totally ok and fair. But it SHOULD BE something that develops NATURALLY much much later, when both parties feel like it, not something that either one brings to the table as a bargaining mechanism.

If I, for whatever reasons, "smell" that the woman I'm spending my time/money/energy with in our dates, is intentionally withholding sex just to make me at least verbally become committed to her, then I would NEXT her in an instance. Because to me, dating is supposed to be fun, and being over-burdened with a huge desire right from the start from my date (a "relationship/commitment") is not fun, even dishonest.

My past relationships all stemmed from the fact that I came for the sex, but eventually stayed for the relationships.

100 percent, bro!  Most dudes, especially in their 20s, are of this mentality.  Your 20s are about having fun!  

As a dude, there's something very off-putting about a woman trying to lock you away.  Depending on the dude, one can smell it a mile off!

What OP refuses to acknowldge is this very reality.  She's experienced it, but she won't accept it.  She refuses to accept it and instead is asking how she can circumvent it.

Men and women are just... different.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry to hear that.

First of all, get off swiping free hookup style dating apps.

Second make sure you are getting appropriate evaluation and care for your depression.

Third stop reading manosphere material and using their terms such as "chad", etc.

Your experience is highly irregular. Quit the hookup apps. Quit buying into internet trash and manosphere musings

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

100 percent, bro!  Most dudes, especially in their 20s, are of this mentality.  Your 20s are about having fun!  

As a dude, there's something very off-putting about a woman trying to lock you away.  Depending on the dude, one can smell it a mile off!

What OP refuses to acknowldge is this very reality.  She's experienced it, but she won't accept it.  She refuses to accept it and instead is asking how she can circumvent it.

Men and women are just... different.

Weren't you married in your 20s? I may be thinking of a different guy.

The OP is 28 and says she dates guys about 5 years older.

Everyone's experience is different but I was definitely meeting guys who wanted relationships when I was in my 20s. And yes. They were handsome. That's young so there were also for sure people who didn't want that, guys and girls alike, everyone matures at different rates (and for that matter, some people just want to remain single indefinitely).

To say men and women are different this way universally is, sorry, absurd. Or course men want relationships. Men, stop posturing, we see you. For the OP's purposes...let us be real...of course there are plenty of men in their late 20s, early 30s (hell, younger) who want relationships. Come on now.

[Be Cool]

5 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

100 percent, bro!  Most dudes, especially in their 20s, are of this mentality.  Your 20s are about having fun!  

As a dude, there's something very off-putting about a woman trying to lock you away.  Depending on the dude, one can smell it a mile off!

What OP refuses to acknowldge is this very reality.  She's experienced it, but she won't accept it.  She refuses to accept it and instead is asking how she can circumvent it.

Men and women are just... different.

Not only 20s but almost all ages. At least to men.

About OP, there's a very useful and effective method she can deploy to make her date want to commit at a very early stage of the courtship, even without her having to talk about it first: LOWER her standard.

Which is, stop dating Chads and start dating guys who are considered to be... "lower" in terms of the look, six-pack-abs and the hotness department???

 

[Andy_K]

1 hour ago, Be Cool said:

I'm not saying "wanting a relationship/commitment" is bad. No, it's totally ok and fair. But it SHOULD BE something that develops NATURALLY much much later, when both parties feel like it, not something that either one brings to the table as a bargaining mechanism.

That approach might be great for guys, but if women completely abstain from screening for the relationship side of the coin, chances are very high they’re going to be strung along time and again by guys who weren’t really interested in committing to them in the first place, but were happy to keep them around for easy sex.
 

For the OP, better to be up front about what you - or your date - are looking for early on. You’ll strike out a lot, but since getting dates is trivial for a reasonably attractive woman, that’s not too much of a problem. I see no issue with making sure they’re not sleeping with anyone else before you start having sex, but here multi daters are in the minority anyway. I guess that may be more difficult elsewhere.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Andy_K

[elaine567]

4 hours ago, CalipsoRose said:

recently coming out of a relationship with a guy who kept going back and forth with me on commitment and blamed it on depression but was really just wanting to date other women while continuing to see me.

That is a guy you needed to bin straight away as he did not want what you wanted.  The minute he backed off was the minute you step away.
"Depression" is also no excuse, as if you want commitment then a guy who is going to disappear into depression is not who you really want to date or get involved with. 
You are not a therapist, I guess, so stay far away from such "complications".
You cannot force people to commit and if they show you that commitment with you, is not high on their priority list, then stop wasting your time.

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 minutes ago, Andy_K said:

That approach might be great for guys, but if women completely abstain from screening for the relationship side of the coin, chances are very high they’re going to be strung along time and again by guys who weren’t really interested in committing to them in the first place, but were happy to keep them around for easy sex.
 

For the OP, better to be up front about what you - or your date - are looking for early on. You’ll strike out a lot, but since getting dates is trivial for a reasonably attractive woman, that’s not too much of a problem. I see no issue with making sure they’re not sleeping with anyone else before you start having sex, but here multi daters are in the minority anyway. I guess that may be more difficult elsewhere.

Good plan and I like your nails.

[schlumpy]

7 hours ago, CalipsoRose said:

This makes me feel hopeless and so confused.
So let me get this straight - I guess I'm supposed to have sex with him within the first 1-2 months even before he agrees to a commitment or exclusivity because if I say "I dont have sex unless I'm in a relationship" this will be seen as manipulation and he can easily just go find Susie from Tinder to sleep with in the meantime. All the while, casually dating me for however long he wants while holding the proverbial carrot of commitment in front of my face. And if I make him wait too long for sex, he will simply stop seeing me.

I've read several times and it was said very casually, that the unwritten rule of OLD is sex by the third date or it's....... NEXT!

How to meet that guy who wants commitment?

I suggest you extract from them through leading questions of course, how they take a vacation.

Do they go to one spot and spend two weeks exploring a small area or do they prefer cruises or train trips?

Is he the type of guy who spends a day driving around Yellowstone National Park and looking out the window of his car or is he someone who spends a lifetime on foot exploring each trail and where it leads to.

Which type would you expect to hang around?

Which type are you?

 

 

[Chilli]

Well , guys a bit older is a start but as some have said it's not to say some younger wouldn't want relationships there's dozens alone right here on ls , but l do think it's a lot less and things do come along older these days on a big part . Also agree too nope you don't wait around for somebody in and out of depression or wooshy washy about you. But yeah you def' need to choose better and be more selective and it's perfectly natural for people to talk and in among that are things about what you both want , it'd be a pretty shallow date if there wasn't , but if that turns or scares some guys off then fine , letem run. They weren't for you.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Chilli

[Trail Blazer]

1 hour ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Weren't you married in your 20s? I may be thinking of a different guy.

The OP is 28 and says she dates guys about 5 years older.

Everyone's experience is different but I was definitely meeting guys who wanted relationships when I was in my 20s. And yes. They were handsome. That's young so there were also for sure people who didn't want that, guys and girls alike, everyone matures at different rates (and for that matter, some people just want to remain single indefinitely).

To say men and women are different this way universally is, sorry, absurd. Or course men want relationships. Men, stop posturing, we see you. For the OP's purposes...let us be real...of course there are plenty of men in their late 20s, early 30s (hell, younger) who want relationships. Come on now.

I was married in my 20s.  I also had a kid at age 21.  A lot of what I did in my 20s was not what I'd do again if I could go back in time.  Whilst I don't regret my kids for a second, I've certainly made life choices which have set me back, but which I've ultimately learnt a lot from.  

However, I digress...

Where did I say that men don't want relationships, period?  Never did I say that.  My point has always been that Chads are less likely to commit because they have so much choice.  Please don't twist what I've said.

[basil67]

2 hours ago, Be Cool said:

 

If I, for whatever reasons, "smell" that the woman I'm spending my time/money/energy with in our dates, is intentionally withholding sex just to make me at least verbally become committed to her, then I would NEXT her in an instance. Because to me, dating is supposed to be fun, and being over-burdened with a huge desire right from the start from my date (a "relationship/commitment") is not fun, even dishonest.

Ok sure.

But the OP took the time to explain that she’s not using sex to manipulate - rather, she just doesn’t want to sleep with all and sundry and, by extension, their partners.  So how is this statement relevant to her experience?

[MeadowFlower]

Oh my gosh, some of the mentality of 21st century men is off-putting. If this is what all men are like these days then, no thank you. Ugh. Maybe men are evolving back into cavemen. 

 

Oh, and any man who thinks that it is wrong for a woman to not have sex with you until you're in an actual relationship, you are incorrect. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by MeadowFlower

[Velvet teddy]

5 hours ago, CalipsoRose said:

Trail blazer, just because I use the word "get" exclusivity does not mean I view sex as a chore. This is the same kind of exhausting thinking that I am trying to explain which ties into my entire issue. I simply want a loving committed relationship and attempting to be in one today is like walking through a minefield of, I'll use your term, Chads. 

Yes I know many men today have numerous women they are probably seeing on the side as flings. I have experienced that my entire 20s, dont gotta tell me twice. I am not in any way using sex as a tool. I am simply asking WHEN or even HOW should I go about dating in this day and age, with the way it is now, if I actually want a relationship. There is nothing manipulative about that, for crying out loud. I am not trying to change reality. Apparently I have to just be ok with dating a guy who is having flings on the side until kingdom comes and a commitment eventually is agreed upon. Woopie. More minefields to come, no doubt. 

OLD is notorious for what you're referring to i.e men looking for casual flings and exploring multiple options at one time. Therefore you're not the only one who will experience this.

You have to chill out and let it be. It is a numbers  game. And im sure the ones who are not serious and will end up playing you, the signs are there from the start. Therefore you can skip those easily and try to look for more suitable serious options. 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Velvet teddy

[boymommy]

Plenty of men want committed relationships. Often what is the case is that they are on different timelines. Also what commitment are you specifying? A serious committed relationship or a serious committed relationship WITH marriage? These are two different things.

As far as sex most adults dont wait two months. I think it benefits people to wait a period of time while getting to know each other but I would say 3 weeks-month if you are talking regularly-seeing each other regularly. That gives plenty of time for a relationship to develop and an emotional connection to get off the ground.  

[Velvet teddy]

3 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

100 percent, bro!  Most dudes, especially in their 20s, are of this mentality.  Your 20s are about having fun!  

As a dude, there's something very off-putting about a woman trying to lock you away.  Depending on the dude, one can smell it a mile off!

What OP refuses to acknowldge is this very reality.  She's experienced it, but she won't accept it.  She refuses to accept it and instead is asking how she can circumvent it.

Men and women are just... different.

Its only offputting if the dude isn't emotionally mature. I know men in their 20s in relationships and who are fine with sticking with one woman. It really depends on the man himself. 

Actually i read some where men NEED  relationships more than women these days..as it's a way of them to have a shoulder to lean on for tough times..

[ZA Dater]

12 hours ago, CalipsoRose said:

I feel utterly defeated by the dating scene as a 28 year old single female. To put it simply, my 20s has sucked in terms of dating because every time I find someone I really like, they either dont want to fully commit to me OR when they do commit I find out they were cheating on me. This has lead to some serious trust issues.

I read a comment on the internet tonight from a woman that said "Do men really want relationships?" and a response to that was from a man who wrote, "Most men just want to casually date, sorry sis. Women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of commitment." Then the forum had a lengthy response thread from mostly men who said they wouldnt wait 2 months for a woman to have sex with them because there are so many women on dating apps who are ready and willing to give them casual sex.

Then it dawned on me. I'm in trouble. Women are at an unprecedented severe disadvantage in our era, probably more-so than any other time in history. Mostly due to dating apps but also due to the mentality men have today when it comes to casually dating. We get played for a decade while our prime years slip away.

We are told to not give up the goods too soon because we will be taken for granted, then we are told not to withhold the goods for too long because then we will be seen as a prude or playing mind games or trying to manipulate him into a commitment. You are damned if you do, damned if you dont.

So when exactly are we supposed to have sex with a man we are genuinely interested in having a relationship with if he hasn't told us he wants to be in a committed relationship with us yet? Because based on the above statement about being the gatekeeper of sex, but yet not giving him an ultimatum of commitment or waiting too long for it because he has other women he can easily sleep with - where the hell does that leave you as the woman? It leaves you in no man's land. No pun intended.

This makes me feel hopeless and so confused.
So let me get this straight - I guess I'm supposed to have sex with him within the first 1-2 months even before he agrees to a commitment or exclusivity because if I say "I dont have sex unless I'm in a relationship" this will be seen as manipulation and he can easily just go find Susie from Tinder to sleep with in the meantime. All the while, casually dating me for however long he wants while holding the proverbial carrot of commitment in front of my face. And if I make him wait too long for sex, he will simply stop seeing me.

I think the problem really is two fold

1: Apps like Tinder mean many guys can get sex fairly easily, the same so called "top tier"guys every lady likes.

2:  A guy who really likes you as a person will wait I believe but the problem is apps have made sleeping around fairly normal so most will still be shopping around even while dating you. 

Both these points cut both ways and the blame really rests on how commercial dating has become. You need to find the right person, they do exists but unfortunately I believe certain things and approaches are being normalized which are in my opinion no normal. Sit on your phone and find a date, would people be as successful if they went out to find a date, I suspect not. 

There is a certain amount of use and throw away when it comes to date, made worse by apps.

[GeorgiaPeach1]

When something is too available, the price for it goes down.