Women are the gatekeepers of sex, men are the gatekeepers of commitment?

[CalipsoRose]

I feel utterly defeated by the dating scene as a 28 year old single female. To put it simply, my 20s has sucked in terms of dating because every time I find someone I really like, they either dont want to fully commit to me OR when they do commit I find out they were cheating on me. This has lead to some serious trust issues.

I read a comment on the internet tonight from a woman that said "Do men really want relationships?" and a response to that was from a man who wrote, "Most men just want to casually date, sorry sis. Women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of commitment." Then the forum had a lengthy response thread from mostly men who said they wouldnt wait 2 months for a woman to have sex with them because there are so many women on dating apps who are ready and willing to give them casual sex.

Then it dawned on me. I'm in trouble. Women are at an unprecedented severe disadvantage in our era, probably more-so than any other time in history. Mostly due to dating apps but also due to the mentality men have today when it comes to casually dating. We get played for a decade while our prime years slip away.

We are told to not give up the goods too soon because we will be taken for granted, then we are told not to withhold the goods for too long because then we will be seen as a prude or playing mind games or trying to manipulate him into a commitment. You are damned if you do, damned if you dont.

So when exactly are we supposed to have sex with a man we are genuinely interested in having a relationship with if he hasn't told us he wants to be in a committed relationship with us yet? Because based on the above statement about being the gatekeeper of sex, but yet not giving him an ultimatum of commitment or waiting too long for it because he has other women he can easily sleep with - where the hell does that leave you as the woman? It leaves you in no man's land. No pun intended.

This makes me feel hopeless and so confused.
So let me get this straight - I guess I'm supposed to have sex with him within the first 1-2 months even before he agrees to a commitment or exclusivity because if I say "I dont have sex unless I'm in a relationship" this will be seen as manipulation and he can easily just go find Susie from Tinder to sleep with in the meantime. All the while, casually dating me for however long he wants while holding the proverbial carrot of commitment in front of my face. And if I make him wait too long for sex, he will simply stop seeing me.

Edited October 23, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[CaliforniaGirl]

Okay...first of all, IMO, not that many adults in close contact with one another do wait two months to have sex. With LDRs and so on, sure, but if you're seeing each other regularly it's not typical to wait two months...it just isn't. Not if you're romantic immediately. 15-year-olds might do this but 28+...just not usually. If you want that you may look for a while. I hate to be stereotypical about this but maybe you need a very religious guy? I don't know.

Second, it shouldn't be a battle like this, withholding sex or else maybe he'll win and slip away, so you should give up sex as some sort of prize or something at just the right time and then YOU win. You're supposed to be interested in one another and not have it be a tug of war.

Your friend's saying isn't new, but it's kind of cardboard. Real relationships aren't that cut-and-dried. And as tough as some guys want to be about it, just hang out here for a while if you want to see how many men DO want relationships. Or just look around you. You don't know any hetero or male gay relationships? You know no men in relationships???

If men never wanted relationships there would be no relationships.

You're 28 or older, based on your post. You should know better than this.

Edited October 23, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[Miss Spider]

Sorry but what that guy wrote sounds like some TRP simp bs.  Plenty of men  want commitment. Otherwise, you wouldn’t see them in relationships. As for sex, a guy that really likes will respect your wishes to wait. Don’t use it to get someone to commit though or you’ll probably be disappointed. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[CalipsoRose]

I am honestly just more confused than ever, after recently coming out of a relationship with a guy who kept going back and forth with me on commitment and blamed it on depression but was really just wanting to date other women while continuing to see me. So I am trying to heal and make sure I do things differently, or the "right" way next time around and quite frankly I dont know what that is anymore.

 

[Interstellar]

Maybe I’m in the minority but I absolutely would only use dating apps to find a relationship. There’s more than enough std’s going around which is a major concern. “Women are the gatekeepers of sex, and guys are the gatekeepers of commitment” is an interesting perspective though and one I’ve never heard before.

Ideally, you wait until marriage before you have sex, but that’s not a hard and fast rule. It’s up to the couple to decide when, or  if the relationship has been established. Again, if both people are mature, but the danger for men is if they do it too soon, and since love is a drug; there is the possibility of their interest level spiraling out of control and that becomes a turnoff to women.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Interstellar

[Trail Blazer]

5 hours ago, CalipsoRose said:

I feel utterly defeated by the dating scene as a 28 year old single female. To put it simply, my 20s has sucked in terms of dating because every time I find someone I really like, they either dont want to fully commit to me OR when they do commit I find out they were cheating on me. This has lead to some serious trust issues.

So, you're only swiping right on Chads?  What about them do you like?  Their looks?  It's a unuversally known fact that men at the higher end of the dating spectrum have an abundance of choice.  Unless you're something special in the looks department, you'll be nothing more than a notch on the belt for most Chads.

5 hours ago, CalipsoRose said:

I read a comment on the internet tonight from a woman that said "Do men really want relationships?" and a response to that was from a man who wrote, "Most men just want to casually date, sorry sis. Women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of commitment." Then the forum had a lengthy response thread from mostly men who said they wouldnt wait 2 months for a woman to have sex with them because there are so many women on dating apps who are ready and willing to give them casual sex.

Generally speaking, women want relationships more than men and men want sex more than women.  I think this changes as men get older, but definitely throughout a guy's 20s, he's happy to casually date.

Furthermore to that saying, there's another one in thr same vein which reads; "men go looking for sex and find relationships, women go looking for relationships and find sex"

I think that a lot of guys slip into relationships after meeting someone and having sex with them for a while.  They figure they may as well stay as the sex is regular - more regular than trying to find it at a local bar, or on OLD.

It really is only the Chads who truly have the lion's share of choice; who do not need to get into a relationship they never truly wanted, because, well... they have many suitors just waiting in the wings to doll out sex in the hope that Mr. Chad will find her special enough to settle down with.

Could you be doing this?  Hoping that every single Chad you connect with will find you special enough to just drop the bachelor life for?  

As for the women on dating apps ready and willing to have casual sex; well, yeah.  It's true.  I've experienced just that myself.  Tinder and PoF was where I had many instances of that.  It took a pretty special lady for me to decide I wanted to settle into a relationship again, but one year on, we're still together and very happy.

5 hours ago, CalipsoRose said:

Then it dawned on me. I'm in trouble.. Women are at an unprecedented severe disadvantage in our era, probably more-so than any other time in history. Mostly due to dating apps but also due to the mentality men have today when it comes to casually dating. We get played for a decade while our prime years slip away.

This is rather melodramatic.  Read above; women and casual sex.  Tell me; why are women at a disadvantage if so many of them are actually taking advantage of the ease with which dating apps connects them with men they can engage in casual sex?

Did it occur to you that most guys are at a severe disadvantage when it comes to OLD?  Just have a read on here, the many, many threads created by guys who get little-to-no attention by the opposite sex on OLD apps.

Just to put into perspective; what would you say the swipe ratio left to right would be for you?  4:1?  Four being left swipe and one being right?  5:1?  Hell, ten-to-one?  Even if it's 2:1 - just think, for every guy you swipe right, you're probably swiping left to plenty more.

Furthermore, if you think back to a comment in your first paragraph, the emboldened one - it's very pertient here.  Whilst looks are subjective, most women would universally agree, with some overlap factored in, who is attractive and who isn't.

So, for the most part, the guys you swipe left to, would be experiencing the same thing from most women.  Yet, the guys you're swiping right to, they would also be getting the same response.  Statistically (the stats have been shared on LS before), on OLD, 80 percent of women chase only 20 percent of guys.

Let that stat sink in.  Then come back and say that only women are at a disadvantage.

5 hours ago, CalipsoRose said:

We are told to not give up the goods too soon because we will be taken for granted, then we are told not to withhold the goods for too long because then we will be seen as a prude or playing mind games or trying to manipulate him into a commitment. You are damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Told?  By whom?  How about you just have sex when you feel like it?  There's always the risk that a guy is playing you.  Trust me, though; I've been played by women, too.  It might shock you to know that some women just want sex as well.  

5 hours ago, CalipsoRose said:

So when exactly are we supposed to have sex with a man we are genuinely interested in having a relationship with if he hasn't told us he wants to be in a committed relationship with us yet? Because based on the above statement about being the gatekeeper of sex, but yet not giving him an ultimatum of commitment or waiting too long for it because he has other women he can easily sleep with - where the hell does that leave you as the woman? It leaves you in no man's land. No pun intended.

You need to be sure he wants to be in a relationship at all to start with.  If you can't be sure he wants commitment, do not even entertain going on a date with him.

I don't think I, or anyone else for that matter, can advise you on when it's "best" to sleep with someone.  You should do it when it feels right.  

If you view sex as a mechanism to achieve what you want, then you're doing it all wrong.  You should be having sex when it feels right.  You should be having sex when you want to.

If you don't feel like you can ever be relaxed enough to have sex after a second, third, fourth date, then I think you will continue to struggle while grappling with this power struggle of dolling out sex as some kind of carrot for a guy to be in a relationship with you.

5 hours ago, CalipsoRose said:

This makes me feel hopeless and so confused.
So let me get this straight - I guess I'm supposed to have sex with him within the first 1-2 months even before he agrees to a commitment or exclusivity because if I say "I dont have sex unless I'm in a relationship" this will be seen as manipulation and he can easily just go find Susie from Tinder to sleep with in the meantime. All the while, casually dating me for however long he wants while holding the proverbial carrot of commitment in front of my face. And if I make him wait too long for sex, he will simply stop seeing me.

I think that if you're dating someone for two months, you should know by then if they want to commit to you or not.

I am curious as to why you feel the need to wait so long to have sex, though?  Is it some kind of self-protection mechanism?  Can you not enjoy sex at all unless it's with someone who promises you commitment?

From my experience, all the women I've dated have been all over me like a rash well and truly prior to me giving them any guarantees I'd be in a committed relationship with them, despite all of them making it clear from the outset that it was commitment that they're after.

It's true, though, that if any of those girls I've dated didn't want to have sex with me after a few dates, I'd think something was up and I'd get suspicious.  Since I've always had options, I would have nexted her before waiting two months.

I haven't always wanted just casual sex.  In fact, I have usually wanted to be in a relationship after some time, when sleeping around became boring and I pined for something with more substance.  However, I'd never entertain waiting months for sex, nor would I ever commit to someone before we had sex.

Wanting a relationship and having sex early in the piece isn't mutually exclusive.  At the end of the day you need to understand that men and women are different, with different needs and desires.  Nobody is right or wrong.  You just need to educate yourself on those differences and not lament the fact that the world doesn't conform to how you wish it were.

Edited October 23, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed Inappropriate Language

[basil67]

Let's turn this around.   Plenty of men and women are still forming relationships and still getting married.   Yes, it's different to how it used to be, but if things weren't working anymore, there wouldn't be new relationships happening.

So the question to ask is: of the women who are meeting men and forming relationships and getting married, what are they doing which gives positive outcomes?

 

[CalipsoRose]

I have literally never waited 2 months to have sex, this was something someone else suggested on another form. I usually end up having sex much earlier and getting used or played as a result. Even you said, Trail Blazer, that you would never commit to someone before having sex with them. So I am genuinely asking, am I supposed to have sex with him before commitment when he could also be sleeping with someone else? What is the best formula to actually get exclusivity from a guy if the timing of sex supposedly has nothing to do with it?

I dont know how else to explain that this is not a manipulation tactic, this is simply me not wanting him to sleep with Mary, Lucy and Stacy the same week that he's sleeping with me. Obviously. 

Also, I am not going to date a guy I find unattractive. I am attractive myself, I cannot help who I am attracted to. So yeah, Im sure the guys I swipe on are getting tons of other women. Thats exactly my point. What is the solution to this? There isnt one. Every guy who brings this up expects me to just go date someone I am not attracted to because he has less women interested in him when thats just ridiculous.

Edited October 23, 2020 by CalipsoRose

[CaliforniaGirl]

21 minutes ago, CalipsoRose said:

I have literally never waited 2 months to have sex, this was something someone else suggested on another form. I usually end up having sex much earlier and getting used or played as a result. Even you said, Trail Blazer, that you would never commit to someone before having sex with them. So I am genuinely asking, am I supposed to have sex with him before commitment when he could also be sleeping with someone else? What is the best formula to actually get exclusivity from a guy if the timing of sex supposedly has nothing to do with it?

I dont know how else to explain that this is not a manipulation tactic, this is simply me not wanting him to sleep with Mary, Lucy and Stacy the same week that he's sleeping with me. Obviously. 

Also, I am not going to date a guy I find unattractive. I am attractive myself, I cannot help who I am attracted to. So yeah, Im sure the guys I swipe on are getting tons of other women. Thats exactly my point. What is the solution to this? There isnt one. Every guy who brings this up expects me to just go date someone I am not attracted to because he has less women interested in him when thats just ridiculous.

Personally I wouldn't sleep with someone who is sleeping with other people. If we are not headed for exclusivity I am not going for it. Just...yuck. No. And yes, that part can certainly happen early. (Easy solution: go out with men who are looking for relationships!)

As to the whole Chad thing, whenever I hear it I just think...jealousy. I cringe when a guy pulls that word out. It sounds angry and jilted. (I'm sorry, men.) You're allowed to like handsome men. Chad is a myth; there is no 100% gorgeous vapid confident guy with zero flaws that obviously any girl with the slightest complaint must be going for. Nobody has led an absolutely perfect life. I doubt you're going for a male Kardashian. And frankly any woman can have just as many problems with decidedly very average guys. We all know it. Being average isn't a badge of superior behavior. So you'll still have to figure this out no matter who you date; going for less attractive guys won't fix this.

I think being young IS part of it; young people in general aren't as ready yet to settle down. You're nearing 30, you'll find more guys who are ready for the same things you are. It's only natural for both men and women to want to play more when they're younger.

But you have to stop with all these rules. They aren't doing you any favors. Rather than waiting for sex with a guy you don't trust to not run away, wait for a guy you trust. Then go from there. Don't try to manipulate a situation you already aren't comfortable with. That just isn't going to work out.

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[basil67]

I think it helps to view commitment and exclusivity separately.    For the sake of one's own sexual health, it's perfectly reasonable to sleep with someone only if you know they aren't sleeping with anyone else - this is exclusivity.  But commitment - the agreement that this is something worth pursuing and sticking with it - should happen only after getting to know a person for quite some time.   And don't forget, for every man who won't date a woman who doesn't have sex before exclusivity, there's a man who respects a woman more if she's thoughtful about who she's intimate with.  And honestly, if a guy is the kind can't understand that sleeping with people who are sleeping with other people is risky, then you'd probably need PPE to touch him anyway.

You touched on a man's attractiveness.  Yep, if you're going for the top 15%, of course you're going to struggle to find someone.  While it's absolutely your prerogative to choose who you're willing to date, accepting that the outcome of your choices can only lead a low success rate is part of the equation.

[Zona]

On 10/22/2020 at 9:54 PM, basil67 said:

So the question to ask is: of the women who are meeting men and forming relationships and getting married, what are they doing which gives positive outcomes?

They are dating guys "in their league", and they are not putting education and career ahead of romantic relationships when they are in their 20's. Last I saw there is only a 20% chance of getting married if you are single at 30. The best time to look for a LTR/Marriage is when you are in your mid 20's and your beauty is at it's peak, and don't be too picky about superficial things like height and job status.

There are frustrating realities for both men and women when it comes to dating. You can sit around all day being bitter about it, or you can accept it and adapt to it.

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Politics in a non-political thread

[Zona]

34 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Chad is a myth; 

It's not about Chads or not Chads, it's about dating people who are at about your level in terms of looks, job, income, etc. In other words, having realistic expectations. Same applies to men.

Sorry to be blunt, but I do think a lot of women have an over-inflated view of their attractiveness, especially as they get into their 30's.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Zona

[CaliforniaGirl]

Just now, Zona said:

It's not about Chads or not Chads, it's about dating people who are at about your level in terms of looks, job, income, etc. In other words, having realistic expectations. Same applies to men.

The thing is...how do we even know who she's going out with? Jumping to the "chad" thing...she hasn't had a chance to answer...these guys could be anybody. Let the woman answer. All she has said is that she wants to be attracted.

And again...if she doesn't solve this issue, it's going to repeat no matter what. Average guys do this sort of thing, too. She won't find an unattractive guy and have this problem be solved. Average or even unattractive guys are NOT necessarily morally superior in this regard so what will that solve for her? She'll be doubly dissatisfied. She needs to figure out why she thinks she needs a formula for relationships, how to wait until she finds a guy who's into her like she is into her, etc. Fixing this starts with her. IMO.

[Zona]

9 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

The thing is...how do we even know who she's going out with? Jumping to the "chad" thing...she hasn't had a chance to answer...these guys could be anybody. Let the woman answer. All she has said is that she wants to be attracted.

The reason people are jumping to the whole Chad thing (Chad just being representative of a good looking womanizer) is that it is SO common nowadays.

I married up by playing the numbers game, That was 20 years ago though and tinder, OK Cupid, etc., didn't exist back then. It's a lot harder to do now.

My oldest son is freakishly handsome, and he has girls texting him pics (some in freaking bikinis or what have you) all the time, and propositioning him at work and at college. He could have a field day if he wanted. How is he going to settle on just one girl? 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Zona

[CalipsoRose]

I guess I dont need a formula, but so far it hasnt worked out for me, the way Ive been doing it. Because I literally dont have a formula. There have been times when I have had sex on the first date and it lead to a relationship but he was cheating on me. There have been times where I havent had sex until the 6th date or a month later and come to find out he was having sex with others the whole time anyway and still didnt give me a commitment. 

As far as Chads, well lets see, I date men who are my age or 5+ years older on average, who have good jobs and are attractive. Most of them have been emotionally immature, others have been in the military or varying professional careers, they are not all Chads but they do tend to take me for granted because of the dating apps in my opinion. 

I guess the answer is I just have to wait for the right guy for me and it'll happen naturally. I was hoping to get some strategy plays as a defense to avoid getting heartbroken again but it seems like everyone is saying to just play it by ear and dont have sex with him if hes having sex with others when the topic comes up. IF hes honest with his answer, that is.

[ccas93]

1 minute ago, CalipsoRose said:

I guess I dont need a formula, but so far it hasnt worked out for me, the way Ive been doing it. Because I literally dont have a formula. There have been times when I have had sex on the first date and it lead to a relationship but he was cheating on me. There have been times where I havent had sex until the 6th date or a month later and come to find out he was having sex with others the whole time anyway and still didnt give me a commitment. 

As far as Chads, well lets see, I date men who are my age or 5+ years older on average, who have good jobs and are attractive. Most of them have been emotionally immature, others have been in the military or varying professional careers, they are not all Chads but they do tend to take me for granted because of the dating apps in my opinion. 

I guess the answer is I just have to wait for the right guy for me and it'll happen naturally. I was hoping to get some strategy plays as a defense to avoid getting heartbroken again but it seems like everyone is saying to just play it by ear and dont have sex with him if hes having sex with others when the topic comes up. IF hes honest with his answer, that is.

Hey I just want to say I've expereinced exactly what you're going through from the male side of things. I think dating apps have realy F'd with dynamics for men as well. At least for ones who actually want commitment. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

5 minutes ago, Zona said:

The reason people are jumping to the whole Chad thing (Chad just being representative of a good looking womanizer) is that it is SO common nowadays.

I married up by playing the numbers game, That was 20 years ago though and tinder, OK Cupid, etc., didn't exist back then. It's a lot harder to do now.

My oldest son is freakishly handsome, and he has girls texting him pics (some in freaking bikinis or what have you) all the time, and propositioning him at work and at college. He could have a field day if he wanted. How is he going to settle on just one girl? 

How old is he?

[Trail Blazer]

48 minutes ago, CalipsoRose said:

I have literally never waited 2 months to have sex, this was something someone else suggested on another form. I usually end up having sex much earlier and getting used or played as a result. Even you said, Trail Blazer, that you would never commit to someone before having sex with them. So I am genuinely asking, am I supposed to have sex with him before commitment when he could also be sleeping with someone else? What is the best formula to actually get exclusivity from a guy if the timing of sex supposedly has nothing to do with it.

Dating isn't an exact science.  You're not going to be able to read someone's mind, so you can never go into anything with absolute certainty.

I really do not like the language you use.  You want to "get" exclusivity?  You can't make someone want exclusivity.  They have to decide that on their own.

You haven't really addressed much of what I originally replied to you about.  Do you have some kind of aversion to sex?  You talk about it like it's a chore and a bargaining chip for what you're really after.

48 minutes ago, CalipsoRose said:

I dont know how else to explain that this is not a manipulation tactic, this is simply me not wanting him to sleep with Mary, Lucy and Stacy the same week that he's sleeping with me. Obviously. 

You will never know for sure.  You have to use intuition and gut instinct.  The reality is you aren't going to connect with everyone on a deep level. 

You need to ascertain early on in the piece if you actually see a future with any guy you're on a date with.  Like I said, from my experience, most girls I've dated, where it's progressed to more than two dates, have jumped my bones even though I haven't committed to them exclusively.

Why?  I don't know, exactly.  I pride myself on being an honest person who wouldn't use women for sex and perhaps that shows.  I actually turned down sex with one girl as I knew I couldn't commit and didn't want to use her.  I was seeing an FWB at the time so I didn't exactly need to have sex with her as I was getting my needs met elsewhere at the time.

Whether you like it or not, the chances are that most guys you're dating are probably having casual flings on the side.  I stopped seeing my FWB as she was a little cray cray.  The timing coincided with me meeting my GF a couple of months later, so I hadn't really been sleeping with anyone else at the time as I was taking a little break from OLD before rejoining and meeting my GF soon afterwards.

49 minutes ago, CalipsoRose said:

Also, I am not going to date a guy I find unattractive. I am attractive myself, I cannot help who I am attracted to. So yeah, Im sure the guys I swipe on are getting tons of other women. Thats exactly my point. What is the solution to this? There isnt one. Every guy who brings this up expects me to just go date someone I am not attracted to because he has less women interested in him when thats just ridiculous.

Nobody should date a person they find unattractive.  You missed my point.  You came in here with a "woe is me" attitude and I simply pointed out that most men have it so much harder on OLD platforms than a self-described attractive woman in her late-20s.

What I find perplexing with you is your apparent detachment from reality.  You lament the fact that the world doesn't work how you want it to and you're here looking for advice on how you can alter reality.

Just accept that the more attractive the guy is that you're dating, the more likely he is to have plenty of options and therefore he'll view you as just one of many options. 

You being bothered by that fact and asking how to change this fact is akin to saying you want to put your uncovered hand in fire but don't wish for it to get burnt and asking how it's possible.  You can't circumvent reality.

[Zona]

5 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

How old is he?

Soon to be 19. He is 6' and totally ripped too, and very smart and confident. He played state level at his chosen sport also. Just lucked out in the gene pool.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Zona

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 minutes ago, Zona said:

Soon to be 19. He is 6' and totally ripped too, and very smart and confident. He played state level at his chosen sport also. Just lucked out in the gene pool.

Okay, see, he's young. My sons are in HS. The girls throw themselves at the boys like crazy. Everyone is high on hormones. This is about the OP. She's in her late 20s. I assume she is dating around her age. She is speaking about a decade of dating. You describe your son as "freakishly" (?) handsome. Unless the OP is dating 19-year-old freakishly handsome guys exclusively then this example simply does not apply to her.  

[Trail Blazer]

58 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

As to the whole Chad thing, whenever I hear it I just think...jealousy. I cringe when a guy pulls that word out. It sounds angry and jilted. (I'm sorry, men.) You're allowed to like handsome men. Chad is a myth; there is no 100% gorgeous vapid confident guy with zero flaws that obviously any girl with the slightest complaint must be going for.

I just used Chad as a generic term to describe a very handsome, sexually active "alpha" male who's very popular with women.  It's a term most people can relate to without having to actually describe those features individually.

[CalipsoRose]

Trail blazer, just because I use the word "get" exclusivity does not mean I view sex as a chore. This is the same kind of exhausting thinking that I am trying to explain which ties into my entire issue. I simply want a loving committed relationship and attempting to be in one today is like walking through a minefield of, I'll use your term, Chads. 

Yes I know many men today have numerous women they are probably seeing on the side as flings. I have experienced that my entire 20s, dont gotta tell me twice. I am not in any way using sex as a tool. I am simply asking WHEN or even HOW should I go about dating in this day and age, with the way it is now, if I actually want a relationship. There is nothing manipulative about that, for crying out loud. I am not trying to change reality. Apparently I have to just be ok with dating a guy who is having flings on the side until kingdom comes and a commitment eventually is agreed upon. Woopie. More minefields to come, no doubt. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

23 minutes ago, CalipsoRose said:

I guess I dont need a formula, but so far it hasnt worked out for me, the way Ive been doing it. Because I literally dont have a formula. There have been times when I have had sex on the first date and it lead to a relationship but he was cheating on me. There have been times where I havent had sex until the 6th date or a month later and come to find out he was having sex with others the whole time anyway and still didnt give me a commitment. 

As far as Chads, well lets see, I date men who are my age or 5+ years older on average, who have good jobs and are attractive. Most of them have been emotionally immature, others have been in the military or varying professional careers, they are not all Chads but they do tend to take me for granted because of the dating apps in my opinion. 

I guess the answer is I just have to wait for the right guy for me and it'll happen naturally. I was hoping to get some strategy plays as a defense to avoid getting heartbroken again but it seems like everyone is saying to just play it by ear and dont have sex with him if hes having sex with others when the topic comes up. IF hes honest with his answer, that is.

I think you need to slow down. Wait for the right guy.

Throw away the rhetoric, the numbers, finding a formula, throw it all away.

And SLOW DOWN.

WAIT and get to know somebody.

The right person is the one who IS mature, and who is into you just like you're into him.

Yes, it happens. It happens every single day.

[CaliforniaGirl]

6 minutes ago, CalipsoRose said:

Trail blazer, just because I use the word "get" exclusivity does not mean I view sex as a chore. This is the same kind of exhausting thinking that I am trying to explain which ties into my entire issue. I simply want a loving committed relationship and attempting to be in one today is like walking through a minefield of, I'll use your term, Chads. 

Yes I know many men today have numerous women they are probably seeing on the side as flings. I have experienced that my entire 20s, dont gotta tell me twice. I am not in any way using sex as a tool. I am simply asking WHEN or even HOW should I go about dating in this day and age, with the way it is now, if I actually want a relationship. There is nothing manipulative about that, for crying out loud. I am not trying to change reality. Apparently I have to just be ok with dating a guy who is having flings on the side until kingdom comes and a commitment eventually is agreed upon. Woopie. More minefields to come, no doubt. 

No you don't. Stop letting people scare you. 

Slow down, breathe. You're spinning your wheels.

You're 28, not 70. You don't have to find the perfect guy by the end of the week.

Take your time and choose the *right* guy. 

[Trail Blazer]

2 minutes ago, CalipsoRose said:

Trail blazer, just because I use the word "get" exclusivity does not mean I view sex as a chore. This is the same kind of exhausting thinking that I am trying to explain which ties into my entire issue. I simply want a loving committed relationship and attempting to be in one today is like walking through a minefield of, I'll use your term, Chads. 

When you wish to change an outcome, you need to understand the boundaries first.  You aren't going to win a game of tennis if you don't first understand the rules.

2 minutes ago, CalipsoRose said:

Yes I know many men today have numerous women they are probably seeing on the side as flings. I have experienced that my entire 20s, dont gotta tell me twice. I am not in any way using sex as a tool. I am simply asking WHEN or even HOW should I go about dating in this day and age, with the way it is now, if I actually want a relationship. There is nothing manipulative about that, for crying out loud. I am not trying to change reality. Apparently I have to just be ok with dating a guy who is having flings on the side until kingdom comes and a commitment eventually is agreed upon. Woopie. More minefields to come, no doubt. 

There is a clear disconnect between what you've observed and what you wish to acknowldge as reality.  I don't "gotta tell you twice" but you simply won't acknowldge this fact.  You refuse to accept that Chads having lots of options, and you just being one of them, is something that you CANNOT change.

So, instead, why don't you focus on what sets you apart from all of the other women out there?  At the end of the day, why should a guy date you over all his other options?  Just because that's what you want, doesn't mean it will happen.  That's the disconnect from reality I'm observing from you.

Chads have flings on the side.  It's not about you being okay with it.  It's about you accepting it as a fact.  If you're attracted to Chads, then that's the deal that comes with associating with them.  If you date a man who's less physically attractive (no, I'm not advocating this - just pointing out the alternative), you won't encounter as much of this.

At the end of the day, it's a harsh world out there and nobody owes anyone anything.  A decenf person will treat someone with decency and respect, but even then, a Chad who's also a decent person will enjoy sex with multiple partners (as is his right to) and for him to commit to you, means you'd need to be special above and beyond what else he has at his disposal.