Am I a jerk for being upset at the reason my GF said my anniversary presents are going to be late?

[smackie9]

Getting pissed off doesn't help. Get your head out of whatever you are thinking and just talk to her. If she struggles to buy things for you or doesn't have enough money to purchase a gift then work around it/compromise/find a solution. There are other ways to show appreciation without having to show it through money. Suggest not buying each other gifts, and instead go on a weekend trip, or she cooks you a nice dinner and you buy her flowers.

As for fixing her finances, this will take time. Maybe suggest you two go to a financial planner, and get some tips on controlling spending and how to save, set goals, do a breakdown of money going out and coming in so she can see for herself. Like I said before, don't get mad, work on a solution proper.

[Crazelnut]

She doesn't need a financial planner. She needs basic financial literacy and simple budgeting. She can get that from books & videos for free. 

[smackie9]

By the sounds of it, she ain't gonna be motivated to watch some video. remember they are planning to marry, and it gets complicated if you don't really know what you are in for. some many are that short sighted.

Edited October 20, 2020 by smackie9

[Wiseman2]

17 hours ago, goosefeet said:

 a little bit offended that she managed to spend however much money she had on herself without considering me. 

She needs to pay her bills, not buy you presents. Grow up.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Wiseman2

[goosefeet]

37 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

She needs to pay her bills, not buy you presents. Grow up.

Well that's obviously far more pressing, but I'm confident she DOES pay her bills, just doesn't know how to do it on a whim (or so she says). She hasn't told me she's ever missed a payment or anything. To clarify, if i was that concerned that she had no money or was in deep credit debt, I'd have jumped ship a long time ago, but I do feel/fear she's got some big problems with financial literacy as pointed out in this thread.

[Miss Spider]

It’s not about being perfect. It’s being smart to be a little concerned about a future with someone who knows how to go ham buying gifts on a cc, but does  not know know how to pay the expenses off. That lowers credit score and triggers higher apr etc. Especially considering one day your money might be her money 

[normal person]

6 hours ago, Atwood said:

but if she's just spending money on stuff I'd give her a break. 

"Just spending money on stuff" can be just as much of a problem as anything else. Everything could be considered "stuff." People can throw away fortunes on worthless crap, or incur crippling debt that can affect quality of life for decades. What does it matter if it's drugs, clothes, video games, teddy bears, etc? Either way, if you're spending more than you make, it's not something that should be taken lightly. Your credit score can be affected which can have other serious implications down the line. 

6 hours ago, Atwood said:

In my personal observations, those people are far more anxious about it than they are uncaring.

Whether it be anxiety or ambivalence, it's still an issue that needs to be addressed. Continuing to let it slide because it's something she might feel bad about is seemingly not going to solve the problem. Life is uncomfortable sometimes. Adults need to grow up and deal with their problems, not expect everyone to give them a free pass. 

6 hours ago, Atwood said:

Having a conversation with her which makes her feel uncaring, incompetent, reckless, or stupid is not going to go well. Her money is her responsibility and you are at risk of being controlling or condescending if you try and tell her what to do with it. 

I agree there's a way to handle it tactfully, but if OP is honestly considering marrying this girl, then his concerns over her spending and the level of responsibility he feels about it are totally within reason. If they do get married, any overspending, credit, debt, issues will be his responsibility; he will inherit them from her. 

6 hours ago, Atwood said:

She knows that maxing her card and not paying it off isn't a good thing to do, she isn't stupid, and she doesn't need you to sit her down and have a chat with her about how to handle herself or her own money. [...] Making mistakes like this is how you learn.

Honestly, it sounds like she does. She knows she's misusing the card, but for some reason, she can't stop doing it. She has a credit card, the ramifications of misusing it can be very severe. She should know how to use it before it becomes an even bigger problem for her and the OP. She should know how to drive before she gets on the highway. You shouldn't wait until she has an accident to then expect her to learn from her mistakes. Some mistakes are more severe than others.

 I wouldn't want someone to incur debt or poor credit to spare their feelings. If you're trying to help the person and aren't condescending, then hopefully they'll be grateful for you keeping them out of a hole. If they can't see that you're trying to help them for their own benefit, that's on them, not you. There are times when it's probably beneficial to spare peoples' feelings, but this is about as good of an example as necessary tough love as I can think of. 

6 hours ago, Atwood said:

As a side note, her money spending "on herself" is something you do with your own money. Yes, she's mismanaged it this time. But if she's buying products or using services aimed at women, you should bear in mind that a lot of products are a lot more expensive for us.

Lots of people have a different set of expenses for things they need. It's not an excuse to not pay attention to how much you're spending with regards to how much you earn. Plenty of people, women included, can figure out how to buy necessities without spending more than they have, or spending within prescribed limit. It's basic math. If you have a credit card, you should at least know how to use it and the implications of not using correctly. You should be able and/or willing to do basic math. If she has a fear of math or numbers, she shouldn't be using a credit card. 

[Ruby Slippers]

18 hours ago, goosefeet said:

We agree that if we marry I'll be in charge of the finances because of her spending...

Famous last words. What are you going to do, give her an allowance? You're not her dad and she is not a child. If you marry her, she'll be able to spend freely and excessively, potentially creating a serious mess for you.

The #1 cause of couple fights and divorce is disagreements over money. There's no way in hell I'd marry someone who was irresponsible with money. It's way too risky.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, goosefeet said:

I do feel/fear she's got some big problems with financial literacy as pointed out in this thread.

Ok, so just say no to gifts . That would help her most to become 'financially literate". You can't have it both ways being petty about gifts then bashing her for spending too much. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Time to have the money talk--and time to be curious. And you being in charge of money--not sure that works.  Because a partner can easily hide their spending, get credit cards that the spouse doesn't know about (I know tons of cases of this) ...

The issue is whether you are comfortable and safe with her way with money and the way she lives. Keep the focus there. BTW: if you're so thorough in checking out her money habits, do you know exactly how much debt she has? That's always a good issue, even though it's awkward. 

Something about her not giving you a timely present doesn't really work for me--that's seems like third-grader to me. But ... if you had fantasized that despite her money problems, she'd always manage to prioritize you for a gift-well then that is the issue, you. The issue is your fundamental fear about how she handles money. It's just you hid that fear from yourself under the guise of "she'll figure out how to get me a promised gift." Go public with that thought! ... about the money issue. And be clear about why that bothers you. 

[Atwood]

13 hours ago, normal person said:

"Just spending money on stuff" can be just as much of a problem as anything else. Everything could be considered "stuff." People can throw away fortunes on worthless crap, or incur crippling debt that can affect quality of life for decades. What does it matter if it's drugs, clothes, video games, teddy bears, etc? Either way, if you're spending more than you make, it's not something that should be taken lightly. Your credit score can be affected which can have other serious implications down the line. 

Whether it be anxiety or ambivalence, it's still an issue that needs to be addressed. Continuing to let it slide because it's something she might feel bad about is seemingly not going to solve the problem. Life is uncomfortable sometimes. Adults need to grow up and deal with their problems, not expect everyone to give them a free pass. 

I agree there's a way to handle it tactfully, but if OP is honestly considering marrying this girl, then his concerns over her spending and the level of responsibility he feels about it are totally within reason. If they do get married, any overspending, credit, debt, issues will be his responsibility; he will inherit them from her. 

Honestly, it sounds like she does. She knows she's misusing the card, but for some reason, she can't stop doing it. She has a credit card, the ramifications of misusing it can be very severe. She should know how to use it before it becomes an even bigger problem for her and the OP. She should know how to drive before she gets on the highway. You shouldn't wait until she has an accident to then expect her to learn from her mistakes. Some mistakes are more severe than others.

 I wouldn't want someone to incur debt or poor credit to spare their feelings. If you're trying to help the person and aren't condescending, then hopefully they'll be grateful for you keeping them out of a hole. If they can't see that you're trying to help them for their own benefit, that's on them, not you. There are times when it's probably beneficial to spare peoples' feelings, but this is about as good of an example as necessary tough love as I can think of. 

Lots of people have a different set of expenses for things they need. It's not an excuse to not pay attention to how much you're spending with regards to how much you earn. Plenty of people, women included, can figure out how to buy necessities without spending more than they have, or spending within prescribed limit. It's basic math. If you have a credit card, you should at least know how to use it and the implications of not using correctly. You should be able and/or willing to do basic math. If she has a fear of math or numbers, she shouldn't be using a credit card. 

The "money on stuff" phrase was just meant as normal spending. We have no idea how much she earns or what her cost of living is, so we can't really make judgements on her spending. I included things like drugs/alcohol because addiction is something that needs to be treated by a mental health professional whereas mismanagement of money is more of a lacking-in-skills issue. 

I'm not saying she can't feel bad or experience negative emotions, and I did recommend that the OP communicate his concerns to her. What I meant is that if you sit someone down and have a discussion with them about their spending, you are at risk of being condescending or controlling or just hurtful. My reasoning for emphasising her feelings is because if the OP goes in all guns blazing, he will damage the lines of communication and the issue won't be resolved because sometimes hurt people become defensive and closed off and the problem gets worse. Another poster even mentioned that their partner began lying to them about their spending to avoid arguments, that's where it gets bad. At this point OP really needs to hang on to transparency and understanding so he can get a wider view of the money situation, watch for patterns, and make an informed decision. 

I agree that money mistakes can be pretty big and disastrous, but it doesn't sound like she's made any big, disastrous, life-changing mistakes. Should OP not communicate it lightly and give her the benefit of the doubt to see how she gets on? They're not getting married tomorrow, and he doesn't have to pop the question unless he's totally satisfied. All I'm saying is that people make mistakes with everything, including money, and I think OP should not jump the gun and down her throat about it if this is the first time she's made this mistake. If it becomes a pattern, then I'd worry. It sounds like the previous gift-givings have been fine and that she's managed well enough with money for the OP not to have any concerns. 

Again, it's "basic math" to you. But people with maths/numbers anxiety or discalculia feel shame because even "basic" math can be difficult and they feel they just need to continue because there's a lot of shame that comes with it. 

I don't think the OP is being unreasonable, but meddling in others' finances is a delicate line that should be considered before you make a judgement. They are not married yet so her finances are completely her own. Additionally, I don't always think that breaking up or holding the relationship hostage is always necessary for things like this. I've been brought up in a family where money was never worth arguing about or falling out over, so I'm likely very biased, but you're going to be hardpressed to find a person who never makes a single money mistake or takes some time to learn the ropes. 

If the OP notices a worrying pattern or their attitude towards money is just too different to be compatible, the OP is well within their rights to leave. But I wanted to offer another side that it isn't always the crack of the whip that is needed. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Atwood

[kendahke]

On 10/19/2020 at 8:24 PM, goosefeet said:

a little bit offended that she managed to spend however much money she had on herself without considering me

Her money is hers to spend whichever way she deems fit. You, as a boyfriend, do not enter into anything related to her finances. 

If she was your wife, I'd say differently--but she's not.

You and she are not compatible if you consider her so slenderly.

[normal person]

9 hours ago, Atwood said:

What I meant is that if you sit someone down and have a discussion with them about their spending, you are at risk of being condescending or controlling or just hurtful.

I agree, but if you don't have the discussion, you're at risk of things getting worse, spiraling out of control, and reaching a point of no return. Which is worse? I'd rather hurt my girlfriend's feelings and help her on a path to solvency than have her be happy as a clam and stuffing overdue credit card statements away where she doesn't have to think about them (for now). If she can't swallow her pride and appreciate what you're trying to do for her, she's not much of an adult and not someone I'd personally want to be in a relationship with anyways. As I said, there's a way to do it as tactfully as possible, but it's a discussion that needs to be had, even if it's uncomfortable 

3 hours ago, kendahke said:

Her money is hers to spend whichever way she deems fit. You, as a boyfriend, do not enter into anything related to her finances. 

If she was your wife, I'd say differently--but she's not.

Technically, yes, the money is hers to spend however she sees fit. However, if they are both invested in their relationship and see it continuing forward towards marriage, her relationship with money is incredibly important for OP to understand. Why? Because like it or not, it's an incredibly important part of life that everyone has to deal with, and the people you have relationships will have their own relationships with it that will affect you. It's not like saying "You shouldn't care if she loves Billy Joel, it's none of your business." Apples to oranges -- you can't really sustain your life without money. You can sustain it without Billy Joel. 

You'll spend most of your waking hours trying to earn money to sustain your life. If you mismanage it, it could be like throwing all those hours of your life away for nothing. I'd want to know if someone I was with was being careless about it considering how hard I work to earn and manage mine, considering if we did get married, she'd have access to it. Better I learn she's accrued $50K in debt before I ask her to marry me and share everything I've worked so hard to earn and preserve than after, just for the sake of being polite. If you look at the divorce statistics, money is very often a factor.

'Much better to nip it all in the bud than to put it off for the sake of someone's feelings and make a terrible decision down the road, in my opinion.  

[kendahke]

5 hours ago, normal person said:

her relationship with money is incredibly important for OP to understand.

He already understands it--he's just trying to get her to be someone she's not and never has been--and that's the problem.

You know, a lot of people right now are struggling in their relationships during this lockdown situation because they've realized they're with the wrong person for all the wrong reasons. OP needs to quit trying turn her into someone she's not and either accept that she's abysmal with money or he gets out and finds someone else who handles money more to his liking.

[CaliforniaGirl]

I think I'd be a little taken aback by this too. Handling finances should be a skill a person has learned pretty early on. At least handling them as far as not being overdrawn.

[Wiseman2]

1. Her finances are none of your business. 

2. Yes, stop focusing on your presents.

3. If you don't like how she handles money at her age, end it. You can't change and fix people.

4. Your expectations are a bit unrealistic as far as her spending money on gifts for you rather than paying her own bills/ expenses first.

5. You are not compatible. End it.