Am I a jerk for being upset at the reason my GF said my anniversary presents are going to be late?

October 20, 2020

Going to be 2 years with my gf in a week, and last year (also when we buy xmas presents, etc.) we told each other how our gift searches for one another were going, and this year is no different. I managed to get all the gifts for my gf early this month/September, so I let her know that, and she was a bit worried because she never even began to look for mine. I want to note that I'm not really bi into gifts myself, don't know what I'd even get for myself, etc. I did become pretty upset, however, when she let me know yesterday that my gifts were going to come late because my gf's credit card was getting declined. I was in complete disbelief that my gf doesn't know how to pay her balance off before receiving a statement (I'm confident she has money), in disbelief that she managed to hit whatever limit she has on her card, and a little bit offended that she managed to spend however much money she had on herself without considering me. I don't know if that's unreasonable, but that's just how I'm feeling. I didn't fight with her over it or anything, or even bring up how bad I think it looks on her part, but I am pretty put off. I just want to know if you guys think my being upset is unfair or not, and how to address it if you think it's worth addressing, because I want to do it but I dont want to seem selfish/petty

October 20, 2020

It’s not really being a jerk to be concerned about how your gf of 2 years handles her finances. Sounds like she isn’t that great at it. Is this the first time you’ve noticed this kind of red flag about that

Edited October 20, 2020 by Cookiesandough

October 20, 2020

1 minute ago, Cookiesandough said:

It’s not really being a jerk to be concerned about your gf of 2 years handles her finances. Sounds like she isn’t that great at it. Is this the first time you’ve noticed this kind of red flag about that

No, not the first time I've noted it. We agree that if we marry I'll be in charge of the finances because of her spending, but I didn't think she was this bad, or rather clueless. I tried walking her through paying her balance, and she was completely lost, which really concerned me. This is half about how bad she is with money, but also just feeling a bit unimportant as I mentioned above.

October 20, 2020

Her poor financial choices are the much bigger issue.

There have been very few years in my marriage when DH had all of my Christmas presents under the tree on the 25th. As the years have gone by he's become a much better gift giver so I don't say anything. We celebrated our birthdays early in Covid so with the lockdowns we just skipped gift giving all together. I baked cakes for his birthday & mine. This year for our anniversary I was the one who was late because I'm not an on line shopper.

All in all I have always been skeptical of people who go to town with dating anniversary gifts. Always seemed overblown to me but if you enjoy it, have fun. Sounds like it's more stress then it works.

If she's a spender & has maxed out her CCs, you being the one "in charge" of the finances will lead you straight to divorce. You two need to be on the same page about money or she will resent you for controlling her. You need a serious change in her before you even get engaged.

October 20, 2020

OP I think you are over reacting to think it is personal and she doesn't care. She has money and time management issues, not uncommon. Now those may be unbecoming and a turn off to you but don't think they are signals she doesn't care. Is it possible gift giving is one of your love languages but not hers, hence how it hurts more than it would others?

I'd look at her in the totality. If the gift was on time how do you feel about her? If this is one of the worst aspects of her, there is far worse to have to overlook in the ones we love.

I get the feeling unimportant part. My advice from experience is if she shows she cares in many others ways it is best to let it go, you can explain if you can be non-accusatory as understanding and being able to be strong on such things can be sexy. The spending is a different issue, good luck on aligning on that.

Edited October 20, 2020 by SumGuy

October 20, 2020

1 minute ago, SumGuy said:

OP I think you are over reacting to think it is personal and she doesn't care. She has money and time management issues, not uncommon. Now those may be unbecoming and a turn off to you but don't think they are signals she doesn't care. Is it possible gift giving is one of your love languages but not hers, hence how it hurts more than it would others?

I'd look at her in the totality. If the gift was on time how do you feel about her? If this is one of the worst aspects of her, there is far worse to have to overlook in the ones we love.

I don't disagree with your comment, but to clarify, I think it's quite the opposite of personal; it's incredibly impersonal. it's less along the lines of me thinking she doesn't acre about me, but rather that I feel she might be too enveloped in her own wants and desires. I mentioned before that I don't particularly care for gifts, but I really do want to feel considered. I'm also just a bit peeved she could spend that much on herself (if her CC is like mine, then her limit is pretty up there for a single month), while I finance most/all of our dates.

That said, things are pretty good overall, and I definitely love my gf, but things like this make me wonder if we're actually compatible longterm.

October 20, 2020

No I don't think you are being unreasonable. I actually ended a long term relationship over the issue of being irresponsible with money. When I was in college I was with someone for 2.5 years and thought I would marry this guy..he was perfect for me in every way except his irresponsibility with money. I tried everything to work out with him until the point where he started lying to avoid arguments and then I was on the hook for the rent at one point due to his lying. My ex boyfriend loved me so a lot and cared about our relationship but he was immature and irresponsible and I wasn't..I needed someone like me. Maybe you do too. That's something to ponder. It may or may not be a dealbreaker for you-this may or may not be a big issue for her. Maybe she just overspent one month or maybe she is chronically irresponsible. If this is something that is important to you I would keep your eyes open and address it if the issue continues to present itself.

October 20, 2020

11 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Her poor financial choices are the much bigger issue.

There have been very few years in my marriage when DH had all of my Christmas presents under the tree on the 25th. As the years have gone by he's become a much better gift giver so I don't say anything. We celebrated our birthdays early in Covid so with the lockdowns we just skipped gift giving all together. I baked cakes for his birthday & mine. This year for our anniversary I was the one who was late because I'm not an on line shopper.

All in all I have always been skeptical of people who go to town with dating anniversary gifts. Always seemed overblown to me but if you enjoy it, have fun. Sounds like it's more stress then it works.

If she's a spender & has maxed out her CCs, you being the one "in charge" of the finances will lead you straight to divorce. You two need to be on the same page about money or she will resent you for controlling her. You need a serious change in her before you even get engaged.

don't really have anything to add on to, other than thank you for the reasonable post! I guess I'm just upset because she waited longer than I did to start looking, and I also agree that dating anniversary presents kind of suck, but that's what we did last year & it would feel a bit lazy to stop now

October 20, 2020

Yes I’d be pretty concerned about the reasoning skills of someone old enough to have a credit card, but didn’t know how to pay off their balance. Or that relied solely on their credit card that is apparently ran up to its max. If she had money she could’ve used a cash or debit money she had. I think it’s a huge flag

Edited October 20, 2020 by Cookiesandough

October 20, 2020

OP my phrasing may be off but meant to convey that she may well care, and care deeply, she just can't get her self organized in this department and may not realize how important it is to you. I would not expect her love of you to be enough to overcome money handling issues, those can run deep and not just change.

As much as I am into my own girlfriend and her me, we have these kind of issues as well (not around gift giving but similar feelings). It irritates me to no end sometimes, after all we are both 50+ and have our lives together, etc. Maybe for use old habits die hard. She shows she cares in so many other ways, requiring much more effort and forethought, so it is one of those areas I let pass and try to work on not reacting so strongly, really overreacting when all is put in context. I have my faults too. Both being older and around the block a few times, you do get a sense of what matters, that no body is perfect and can recognize when you have a very good thing.

So take it in total. I think it is the money handling, forget about timely gifts, that is a relationship issue to come to agreement on. It's one of the number one things that lead to divorce, disagreements about how to handle money.

October 20, 2020

My ex husband made plenty of money when we got married, but he had horrible credit and big credit debt because he just never bothered to pay his cards off or pay them on time. It took several years after we got married for me to pay off his debt (mostly with his paycheck) and restore his credit rating. His lack of financial responsibility was a continued bone of contention throughout our marriage and led to a lot of resentment on both of our parts, his because he always felt like he was being told what to do when I had the monthly "you're spending too much" conversations with him when his credit card bill came in.

I don't think it necessarily reflects on her feelings for you, it's just who she is. Be very careful about marrying her or combining your finances unless things change, which unfortunately is unlikely. Financial issues are HUGELY important in relationships.

October 20, 2020

You're focusing on the wrong thing. It's not that she doesn't care about you. It's that you two look at money completely differently. It's like you're speaking 2 different languages.

But man, you need to understand that you cannot have a successful long term relationship with someone who deals with money SO differently than you. You can't be in charge of the money if you stay together. She can't figure out how to pay off a credit card?? Is she 12?? You can't assume the parental role and have a fulfilling, respectful relationship. Plus, she will ruin your finances. Spenders are going to spend, and you will never change that about her. It will drive you mad.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Crazelnut

October 20, 2020

1 hour ago, goosefeet said:

I was in complete disbelief that my gf doesn't know how to pay her balance off before receiving a statement (I'm confident she has money), in disbelief that she managed to hit whatever limit she has on her card, and a little bit offended that she managed to spend however much money she had on herself without considering me. I don't know if that's unreasonable, but that's just how I'm feeling. I didn't fight with her over it or anything, or even bring up how bad I think it looks on her part, but I am pretty put off. I just want to know if you guys think my being upset is unfair or not, and how to address it if you think it's worth addressing, because I want to do it but I dont want to seem selfish/petty

The real issue here is that your girlfriend should probably sign up for a community education class on managing finances. Since you've known about her money mismanagement problems for two years that you've been together, have you ever encouraged her to take a class that teachers her how to manage her finances at all?

It really doesn't matter if she spent more on herself than you, or that your presents will be late. I can see why you are upset and its reasonable to feel that way. I'm just wondering why you aren't more upset that you are with someone who cannot manage money. That will negatively impact you even if you are the one responsible and managing the finances for you both.

There are things she could do behind your back if you use joint bank accounts or joint credit cards too. Like, spend past the limit. And, even if you put her on a weekly budget, she may go over that and resent you for keeping track of her spending b/c she has issues around money management. It's a very stressful thing and very personal - money management.

I think if you plan to marry her, you need to encourage her to use the community resources around you to get enrolled in a 6 week money management class. She may feel self-conscious and embarrassed and try to deflect and personally attack you in an effort to avoid taking responsibility, but don't back down. She is an adult and she needs to learn how to manage her finances.

October 20, 2020

So the issue here is your discomfort with the way she handles money. Now that this challenge of hers resulted in you getting a late gift, you're upset. Getting a late gift is no crime. And sometimes people have other priorities. Bottom line is step up to the plate and articulate your real feelings ... something about not trusting her ... not trusting that she can manage her life ... That's the issue. If there were a one-time thing not connected to any other relationship dynamics, you wouldn't be so upset.

October 20, 2020

1 hour ago, FMW said:

My ex husband made plenty of money when we got married, but he had horrible credit and big credit debt because he just never bothered to pay his cards off or pay them on time. It took several years after we got married for me to pay off his debt (mostly with his paycheck) and restore his credit rating. His lack of financial responsibility was a continued bone of contention throughout our marriage and led to a lot of resentment on both of our parts, his because he always felt like he was being told what to do when I had the monthly "you're spending too much" conversations with him when his credit card bill came in.

I don't think it necessarily reflects on her feelings for you, it's just who she is. Be very careful about marrying her or combining your finances unless things change, which unfortunately is unlikely. Financial issues are HUGELY important in relationships.

My sister and her husband had a similar story but they didn't divorce. My BIL took a money management course and cut up his credit cards and it took him years to repair his credit and change his personal attitude towards money and how to manage it better. It's a legitimate fear, known as "Chrometophobia" is the extreme fear of money. Also known as chrematophobia, it encompasses everything from the fear of spending money and the fear of thinking about money, to even the fear of touching money.

Since the OP's girlfriend obviously feels powerless to manage her credit card debt, she definitely could benefit from meeting with a financial counselor and even take a money management class online, to help her get over her money fears.

Money anxiety is a common thing and we all have it to some extent, right? OP, here's a helpful blog for you to share with your girlfriend about how she can learn to manage her money better.

Quote

To overcome a fear of your personal finances, you first need to ask yourself why you’re afraid. Perhaps there’s a good reason, like you know you’re stuck deep in debt and you don’t want to go face-to-face with the hard numbers. Or, your fear may be less rational: Perhaps you just aren’t a numbers person or are intimidated by financial planning. Whatever your reasons for fearing personal finance, try to write them down and recognize that they are unjustified and/or may actually make your problem worse in the long run.

.

October 20, 2020

I don't really get the gift-money thing, I mean a gift doesn't really have to cost anything, she could cook/bake, get a ballon and a card from Dollar Tree, press some wildflowers etc. Some things like a home-made personalised card which takes a few weeks of planning are very meaningful.

The credit cards, well as you can see from the responses many of us clear our balances monthly too, but a lot of people don't. The issue is whether you're on the same page or not about that if you're planning a permanent relationship.

Good luck!

October 20, 2020

I’m confused. You say you’re confident she has money to pay her card, but you’re upset that she used all her money without thinking of you. So is the cause of problem that she doesn’t know to make a bank transfer or having spent all her money?

What do you think of the idea she may have money anxiety?

October 20, 2020

26 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I’m confused. You say you’re confident she has money to pay her card, but you’re upset that she used all her money without thinking of you. So is the cause of problem that she doesn’t know to make a bank transfer or having spent all her money?

What do you think of the idea she may have money anxiety?

if her card declined, i can only assume she hit her limit on how much she can spend during this period, but I asked her, and she said she had money to pay her card off, but just didn't know how to do it before receiving her statement in the mail or email, wherever she gets it, meaning she cant buy anything at all until she gets that statement. The problem is both of those, plus my feeling a bit aggrieved she thought to spend x amount before thinking of me, but the overall money tone is what really scares me.

She very well could, and i wouldnt be shocked, but she hasnt expressed it to me besides noting she doesnt want to handle money when we're older.

October 20, 2020

21 minutes ago, goosefeet said:

if her card declined, i can only assume she hit her limit on how much she can spend during this period, but I asked her, and she said she had money to pay her card off, but just didn't know how to do it before receiving her statement in the mail or email, wherever she gets it, meaning she cant buy anything at all until she gets that statement. The problem is both of those, plus my feeling a bit aggrieved she thought to spend x amount before thinking of me, but the overall money tone is what really scares me.

She very well could, and i wouldnt be shocked, but she hasnt expressed it to me besides noting she doesnt want to handle money when we're older.

And this is how it starts, with the partner who has a fear of money making justifications, "I can't pay down my credit card balance until I get my statement sent to me." That's an excuse. She can easily log into her credit card account online anytime she wants to check her balance, or call the 800 # on the back of her credit card to speak to a customer service agent about her card balance; to make an interest transfer from one card to another; to pay down the balance with an agent or using the automatic system. So, she's giving you excuses to cover up her real anxiety with money management.

Until she addresses why she has this anxiety with money management, she will continue to make excuses and justifications for poor financial choices that effect her and now effect you (she hurt your feelings by telling you she spent her credit card money all on herself instead of your anniversary presents which will be late now, so its inconsiderate).

October 20, 2020

Wow. No wonder her credit is in the toilet with this much empasis on amassing material stuff.

Both of you get off the online shopping sites and stop this inane gift and money competition.

Pretty bizarre that you feel entitled to all these gifts and the fact that she's living off bad credit at her age doesn't sound major alarm bells for you..

All you 2 are doing is racking up debt and clutter.. At your age doing this type of nonsense, you're both going to end up eating catfood in a trailer park.

Go take a fun vacation together that's affordable and more Interesting than wondering where you're going to store all this junk you're buying online.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Wiseman2

October 20, 2020

I find it interesting the significance you place on a Christmas present as in reading a lack of concern for you.

Does she fuss over you at night making sure you are covered up with a warm blanket?

Does she shut down what she is doing to give you her full attention when you are talking to her?

When you are sick is she by your side?

If not, those are things you have to worry about.

October 20, 2020

As others have already said.... the larger issue is how she handles money. As long as you are just dating... it's really none of your concern. Not to mention... over the years... I have heard of money issues being the cause of divorce, just as meant times as cheating. SO... if your relationship is getting to the path of possible marriage... then that needs talked about VERY seriously before making a commitment. I've known a few couples who treat finances as if they were roommates... but normally, finances just merge together... and her debt will become your debt.

With that said... I am at the age where I don't care if I get gifts. Just a simple acknowledgment of the event. (Bday, Anniversary, so on) BUT... it's an ABSOLUTE pet peeve of mine where I get someone saying... "I got you a gift, but it's going to be late." My ex use to do that... and it really upset me. That just means they weren't thinking until it was too late. The only exception to that is... if it's something that won't be released until a later date. (Games, movies, collectables, so-on) If you can't get a gift in time... then just bake, or take (make) me a nice dinner.

No real help here... just throwing out my 2 cents.

October 20, 2020

Wow, some people are really judgmental.

I would not say late gifts are a sign of financial ruin. That's a non-essential. And late gifts are not a big deal.

Just remember, nobody is perfect. This includes you.

October 20, 2020

There's money problems and there's Money Problems imo. Being good with money is a skill and a lack of it doesn't always indicate there's going to be relationship problems. I'd worry if there was an addiction at play like gambling or substances, but if she's just spending money on stuff I'd give her a break.

This wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me personally because money handling doesn't come naturally to all of us. It took me a couple of years earning my own money to get a handle on my spending (I came from a family where money was tight and I was excited to have my own income). Additionally, as others have said, she may have money anxiety or even numbers/maths anxiety or a condition called Discalculia. A lot of people are shamed for not doing particularly well with numbers growing up, but all that does it stop you from getting better and learning and makes you avoid it altogether. For example, do you know anybody who spends money pretty loosely and never, ever checks their balance and will just keep going until their card gets declined? I know a lot of people like that, and I was one of them to begin with (still am sometimes). In my personal observations, those people are far more anxious about it than they are uncaring. It says a lot about how much she trusts you that she was open with you about it and admitted they'd be late - a big red flag would be that she's trying to hide it from you because that would say to me that she's up to something she shouldn't be OR your behaviour is making her scared of how you'll react.

Having a conversation with her which makes her feel uncaring, incompetent, reckless, or stupid is not going to go well. Her money is her responsibility and you are at risk of being controlling or condescending if you try and tell her what to do with it. She knows that maxing her card and not paying it off isn't a good thing to do, she isn't stupid, and she doesn't need you to sit her down and have a chat with her about how to handle herself or her own money. Making mistakes like this is how you learn. By all means, let her know that you're feeling upset about late gifts if you want to, you're allowed to have feelings and express them about the way she's handled things. However, I would avoid telling her what to do or trying to become a micro-manager. The only way we learn is making mistakes, sometimes multiple times, and having unpleasant consequences. (i.e she is late giving gifts as a result).

As a side note, her money spending "on herself" is something you do with your own money. Yes, she's mismanaged it this time. But if she's buying products or using services aimed at women, you should bear in mind that a lot of products are a lot more expensive for us. I spend tons more than my boyfriend due to clothes, haircuts, general hygiene maintenance and other things being more expensive on the whole. Seriously, look up the cost of sanitary products, hair appointments, decent bras and women's clothing from reputable stores (cheap stuff inevitably results in your needing to buy it more often so cutting corners on quality often doesn't help).

I think communicating your concerns to your girlfriend is okay but just don't try to take over. Nobody needs or wants their spouse to take their money privileges away from them like they're a naughty child having their allowance stopped. It's the quickest route to resentment, an imbalance of power, and at worst, financial abuse.

October 20, 2020

11 hours ago, goosefeet said:

I mentioned before that I don't particularly care for gifts, but I really do want to feel considered.

That said, things are pretty good overall, and I definitely love my gf, but things like this make me wonder if we're actually compatible longterm.

Wanting to feel considered is natural & understandable. In that sense I think if she gave you a timely card, even a homemade one, & made some sort of fuss, even without a high dollar value attached to the fuss, you would feel better.

It's good that you are starting to Q your long term compatibility. Money ruins more relationships then anything else.

11 hours ago, goosefeet said:

I guess I'm just upset because she waited longer than I did to start looking,

That's a bit unreasonable. I am an in person shopper. I HATE on line shopping with a passion. When I have to do it I can't time it right & things are usually late because I refuse to pay for overnight shipping. One of the few recurrent bones of contention in my marriage is the overnight shipping fees DH incurs. He's an on line shopaholic IMO (I'm teasing a bit)

9 hours ago, goosefeet said:

she said she had money to pay her card off, but just didn't know how to do it before receiving her statement in the mail or email, wherever she gets it, meaning she cant buy anything at all until she gets that statement.

Full STOP. If this woman has the wherewithal to have have a high credit limit how is it that she can be this financially illiterate? There's a disconnect here & you best get to the bottom of it before you talk about marriage. Methinks she's lying to you. Who in this day & age doesn't know you can always check all your financial balances on line? I'd suggest offering to sit with her & set up on line accounts with passwords etc. for her so she can figure this out. If she balks you know you have a real problem on your hands. Similarly does she not know what carrying a balance close to the credit limit does to a credit score?

You think she has the cash to pay off the high balance every month then run it back up again but frankly that is supposition on your part. You need to educate yourself about her true financial position and relationship with money before you move forward to making this relationship permanent.

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Am I a jerk for being upset at the reason my GF said my anniversary presents are going to be late?

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