45 Year Old Male Sending Mixed Messages

[poppyfields]

16 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

He sounds too broken. He's doing the "If you could possibly feel sorry for me, then I can carry on being lazy and not that interested..."

That and/or he doesn't want to take responsibility for continuing/developing the relationship and would prefer that you chase.  

That way, when he gets bored or finds someone he likes better, he doesn't have to feel guilty for dumping you as you were the one who pursued him!

Commitmentphobes/avoidants are notorious for doing this.  Sounds like he knows his pattern!  

What's his history?  45?  Has he ever been married?  Kids?  Long term relationship?

Edited October 10, 2020 by poppyfields

[kiwistwbry]

10 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

That and/or he doesn't want to take responsibility for continuing/developing the relationship and would prefer that you chase.  

That way, when he gets bored or finds someone he likes better, he doesn't have to feel guilty for dumping you as you were the one who pursued him!

Commitmentphobes/avoidants are notorious for doing this.  Sounds like he knows his pattern!  

What's his history?  45?  Has he ever been married?  Kids?  Long term relationship?

All makes sense. Never been married. No kids. Was in a pretty serious relationship that ended about 5 years ago. I didn’t press him for details on that.

Edited October 10, 2020 by kiwistwbry

[poppyfields]

4 minutes ago, kiwistwbry said:

Was in a pretty serious relationship that ended about 5 years ago.  I didn’t press him for details on that.

If you choose to continue dating him, don't be afraid to ask the hard questions. It's your heart, your life.

A man history is so important (so is a woman's if roles were reversed). 

Knowledge is power.  The more you have, the better able you are in making the right choice for you.  

It's all a risk anyway, never any guarantees.

Keep us updated!  

[kiwistwbry]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Will update if he gets back to my latest message. One thing I can’t get over is the personal detail in his response. I mean, he could’ve just kept it short to “I’m going through a rough patch in my life right now.” What he told me would be embarrassing, and I would think even more so for a guy?... Why not just keep his response low effort too?

Edited October 10, 2020 by kiwistwbry

[Watercolors]

10 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

His response was a feeble attempt to keep you around just in case he changes his mind about you. Do not be fooled or manipulated by this. It’s not taking your needs into account at all and is all about him. 

+1. My thoughts exactly. He totally breadcrumbed you. Do not be fooled or emotionally duped by his response. He's only interested in having his needs met. Go back and reread his text. It's all about him, him, him. Avoid, avoid, avoid. Or you will be wasting your energy on a guy who is not interested in pursuing anything with you at all. I'm sorry but a guy who is interested in you would be very transparent and clear with you in his texts and his behavior. He would kiss you on your 3 dates, and he would tell you he wants to continue to date you. He would not offer convenient excuses that "prevent" him from being there for you.

1 hour ago, smackie9 said:

He sounds too broken. He's doing the "If you could possibly feel sorry for me, then I can carry on being lazy and not that interested..."

+1. Mixed messages are an inconsistent way to communicate and hide the truth behind why that person's doing it. Maybe he had his heart broken, or has trust issues, or has low self esteem or he literally isn't ready to pursue a real relationship with you. But the best response you can offer when you receive a mixed message is to accept it as the truth. Stop trying to decipher its hidden meaning. Don't make excuses for the guy, so that you can convince yourself he really does want a relationship with you but he doesn't know it yet b/c of his own issues. Just don't go there. When you get a mixed message, take that as a red flag that he's just not that interested in you -- 3 dates or 1 date. If he wanted to really pursue things with you, he would. And he wouldn't send you mixed messages.

1 hour ago, kiwistwbry said:

That’s the thing. On the dates he didn’t seem overly anxious or anything. I mean, maybe a bit nervous, but I was too! There were a couple moments where we got close to kissing but it never happened. I actually think more so on my part. Nerves just got the best of me in that area. So far it had been me initiating the dates with him then planning the rest.

He didn't kiss you on any of the 3 dates? And he's 45 years old?!?! Ok, he has to be nixed. Unless he's a Mormon, Shaker, or Amish there's literally no excuse not to kiss someone you're on a date with if you are attracted to the person.

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Watercolors

[Watercolors]

35 minutes ago, kiwistwbry said:

I mean, he could’ve just kept it short to “I’m going through a rough patch in my life right now.” What he told me would be embarrassing, and I would think even more so for a guy?... Why not just keep his response low effort too?

Stop overanalyzing his last text message. He doesn't want to date you. I'm sorry to be so blunt. There's no hidden meaning to decipher here. Just delete his texts, forget about him, and keep dating. He's not interested in dating you.

[FMW]

I don't agree that he is absolutely just not interested.  Maybe he's not, but I don't think that's the only explanation. 

I've known people, men and women, with a lot of issues that weren't emotionally healthy or available to be in a relationship, but they could still have genuine interest in someone.  The end result is the same, however.  They're just never quite within your reach, they can't satisfy your need for real connection. 

If you choose to keep seeing him, certainly keep your expectations low and your options open.  The "why" doesn't matter about how someone acts.  Unless they are consistent and reliable in their show of interest and communication, don't invest your time, energy and emotion.    

[Watercolors]

2 minutes ago, FMW said:

I've known people, men and women, with a lot of issues that weren't emotionally healthy or available to be in a relationship, but they could still have genuine interest in someone.  The end result is the same, however.  They're just never quite within your reach, they can't satisfy your need for real connection. 

I have to disagree with you that people who aren't emotionally healthy or available have a genuine interest in someone. 

The guy that the OP writes about isn't genuinely interested in her. They had 3 dates and he never attempted to even kiss her. I'm sorry, but if he was genuinely interested (and had emotional problems) he'd still attempt to elicit a kiss from her on those dates. So, there's something he's not being honest with the OP about. Therefore, his interest in the OP was never genuine to start with. Maybe he saw her as a time filler someone to fill his lonely life for 3 dates. If he was seriously having emotional problems, he wouldn't even attempt to be dating. So, I don't agree with you that emotionally stifled or damaged people can genuinely be interested in someone. Usually, their interest is tied to an outcome that suits only their needs, not the other person's needs.

A genuine interested guy would not give out mixed messages ever. I'm not sure how you could disagree with that.

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, kiwistwbry said:

There were a couple moments where we got close to kissing but it never happened. I actually think more so on my part. Nerves just got the best of me in that area. So far it had been me initiating the dates with him then planning the rest.

Not good.

[poppyfields]

People are complex, and feelings/emotions are not always so black and white.

My brother for example, and I know of others like him, have anxieties and fears, that despite really liking a girl, will prevent him from moving forward.

Self-sabotagers.  In fact, the more he likes a girl, the more anxious he gets and will push her away!  100% truth. I've witnessed it, we've talked about it. 

After years of therapy, it's been determined he is an "anxious avoidant," a "commitmentphobe."  

From the outside looking in, one would assume he has NO interest, when the truth is, it's the exact opposite.  

Sadly, he and others like him may not be capable of ever having a successful healthy relationship with anyone no matter how strong his feelings. 

This guy?  Who the hell knows, it's all speculation. 

Whatever it is, whether disinterest or anxiety or fear, or something else,  he doesn't sound like someone to move forward with.  

I sure wouldn't. But I'm not you OP, you do you.  

It's all a risk. 

 

 

[kiwistwbry]

10 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

People are complex, and feelings/emotions are not always so black and white.

My brother for example, and I know of others like him, have anxieties and fears, that despite really liking a girl, will prevent him from moving forward.

Self-sabotagers.  In fact, the more he likes a girl, the more anxious he gets and will push her away!  100% truth. I've witnessed it, we've talked about it. 

After years of therapy, it's been determined he is an "anxious avoidant," a "commitmentphobe."  

From the outside looking in, one would assume he has NO interest, when the truth is, it's the exact opposite.  

Sadly, he and others like him may not be capable of ever having a successful healthy relationship with anyone no matter how strong his feelings. 

This guy?  Who the hell knows, it's all speculation. 

Whatever it is, whether disinterest or anxiety or fear, or something else,  he doesn't sound like someone to move forward with.  

I sure wouldn't. But I'm not you OP, you do you.  

It's all a risk. 

 

 

Really appreciated this. Thanks!

[Versacehottie]

14 hours ago, kiwistwbry said:

Makes sense, but my previous text to him did say “I can see you’re not interested. All good. Hope all is well!” This clearly showed him that I wasn’t bothered by his disinterest and that I was actually okay with it and was wishing him well, so... Wouldn't this have let him off the hook??? His reply almost made it seem like he was trying to tell me that my way of thinking wasn’t correct.

Next time, I don't think you should send a message like that.  Why are you determining what is in his head?  Especially if you are then just going to try to analyze it further?  If someone is giving you signs of not being interested or ready or not on pace with you, you are just as well either asking a more direct question (not a guilt-trip one like above--maybe you don't think you mean that but there is an element of that to it) or pulling back. Right now, your posts here say that you are still interested or curious yourself, so why would you want to back him into a corner and decide for him?  If you were going to say anything, IMO better to say, "what do you think about us" or something very open-ended or along those lines and let him say what is going on or what he feels.  I think 3 dates in it is too early to ask but let's say you absolutely want or have to know then open-ended is a better way to do it. 

Even though you are probably right that he is not as interested as you hoped, this doesn't solve anything, because you are still pondering his reasons why.  He could be lukewarm for his life situation or about you or he may just be a guy who doesn't move fast or jump in to fast OR he could be lackluster about you.  There is no reason to try to figure it out now.  You wrote the "ending" for him already.  Sometimes patience is a virtue.  Also while dating norms let the guys be much more in control of how things unfold (pursuing, not pursuing and setting the pace, etc), you aren't powerless.  If someone isn't giving you what you want, just pull back and put them on the back burner (or cut it off if you don't like the vibe at all).  You can do much more manipulating of the pace that way rather than a statement like you did.  In one way, it make it seem on the surface like you are cool with it and don't care, but on the other you do seem to care and it's a little passive aggressive or mind reading type thing. He could be feeling some (self-imposed) guilt because there is no easy way to let someone down easily or also disappointed that you two did match better but his lack of contact says as much as well.  Whether you were right or not completely right, you backed him into a corner.  I know people that are together completely that weathered the beginning uncertainty well (which almost always exists).  This is not a total defense of him or putting "blame" on you, only that you can play things differently to your advantage more---especially if you'd like to see what is there.  Plus you can rely on yourself more too---you don't need to inform him WHATSOEVER that his pace or lack of contact doesn't work for you.  Just stop replying if his contact is sporadic (or do the famous block).  Or if it suits you when he gets his sh*t together, then resume talking to him.  At 45 I would think time is running out on him getting his sh*t together.  But hey people aren't perfect.Good luck

[Azincourt]

16 hours ago, kiwistwbry said:

I’m a 34 year old female and have gone out with this guy 3 times. But he’s been sending mixed messages and I don’t know what to do. I texted him that I can see he’s not interested, that it was all good, and that I hoped all was well. He replies saying this... 

“I apologize for not responding. You are a wonderful person and I truly would like to see you again. I am going through a bit of a mess socially and mentally so it is difficult for me to imagine I would have much to offer. I can be a bit socially awkward sometimes and it drives me absolutely crazy because it has been very difficult to overcome.”

Any thoughts on this? I don’t think I even completely understand his response.

Sounds like the guy either suffers from low self-esteem, or he's really going through a lot of social and mental problems and he's better off not dating anyone for the time being, but he enjoyed the time spent with you, and he hopes you find a decent guy to have a relationship with, although he'd love to see you again, he's giving you ample warning about his current situation, so that you can make an appropriate answer based on that, and on what you want.

[Wiseman2]

25 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

Next time, I don't think you should send a message like that.  Why are you determining what is in his head?  

Agree. Great advice. Preemptive strikes like this seem like bait. Why did you text him that? Was he trailing off on communication or not asking for dates?

[kiwistwbry]

28 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree. Great advice. Preemptive strikes like this seem like bait. Why did you text him that? Was he trailing off on communication or not asking for dates?

Yes, both. I was just trying to state the obvious and be done with it. Then he gives me his next reply saying he truly wants to see me again and how he’s socially awkward, etc.

Edited October 10, 2020 by kiwistwbry

[Versacehottie]

I'd be wondering why you felt you truly need to "define" it at all?  If you really wanted to be done with it, why not block him or stop replying?  There's an element of wanting to have the last word or "call it" before he does.  If you were 100% cool with it, no need to say a word IMO. 

[kiwistwbry]

2 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

I'd be wondering why you felt you truly need to "define" it at all?  If you really wanted to be done with it, why not block him or stop replying?  There's an element of wanting to have the last word or "call it" before he does.  If you were 100% cool with it, no need to say a word IMO. 

Not replying is a good idea.

[Versacehottie]

I think it speaks equally or more with where your head is at.  Guys typically respond more to action (or in this case non-action if you don't reply).  Also if there is an element where he has made you feel powerless or confused, not replying pretty much says, you are not doing good enough for me or i got busy OR I'm meeting you at your damn slow pace, ie if he snoozes he loses you.  If you think about it, part of the reason guys set a pace they can deal with, ie especially those on the slow end, is that they don't want to over-commit and find themselves in an insta-relationship.  Your statement to him did as much too--the only way he could progress out of that statement is to: a) confirm that you are exactly right which is probably too confrontational and cruel and it also cuts of the opportunity with you when he gets less confused  b) OR he'd have to basically beg for a chance and tell you that's not what he meant at all & the pendulum swings entirely the other way and he'd find himself uber committed and obligated if he had to negate your statement and prove your assumption wrong (probably not ready for that by any means, as his actions already said as much). c) so only logical thing was to give a somewhat confusing answer that slightly leaves the possibility open and puts the blame on himself.

You aren't powerless if you control ACCESS to yourself and your emotions.  Typically if you do this people will find you more magnetic.  If you give access to someone who is not meeting you at your level, that's not going to make you feel good and will often not let the other person see the value in you.  I think even though it's a nice idea that a girl can do the planning or pursuing of dates, it often sets the wrong dynamic, even in this modern world.  If you don't do the "work" in that way, you will get a good idea of where the guy is about you and also just what their general nature is (some of this truly probably IS about him, just how he is).  One of my friends boyfriends was exactly like this--even at 6 months, when she finally lost it on him.  It wasn't really about how he felt about her, but just how he is as he truly does adore her and they are very happy together, having understood how each person is.  With your guy, there probably is an element of he's just slow about feelings or he thinks 3 dates in is too soon to really promise much.  It's also probably a combo where he is lukewarm--due to his feelings about you specifically or being a non-committal person in general, in this guy's case.  I'd say if you see consistency in asking for dates and the pace is reasonable and spark is there when you do spend time together (also at a reasonable pace), it's ok to make allowances that not every guy is going to overly emote or know exactly what he wants at this stage or be the same as other guys handle it---if you can manage yourself through these periods of uncertainty.  Just have fun and don't overly commit yourself!  3 dates in, you really don't even know if he's worth it or worth fretting over!  Some girls can't do this but I would encourage you to keep it light and breezy just because most importantly, not every guy deserves access to you and IMO you should still be figuring it out if he's worth your time too.  If you take that stance mentally, it's a lot easier to see him for what he's really about, what he's really offering, to have understanding that some of it may be real or his character what he's saying and it's truly no big thing and you WILL find someone better suited for you if he doesn't measure up.  That's your decision and you're under no obligation to inform him of your choice when he's not meeting your basic reasonable expectations.  Plus you can always say a version of what you did say when he reaches out (ie way too late for you),...well the one that requires no response but is letting him know where YOUR head is at because he dropped the ball with pursuit pace & wish him the best then.  It doesn't have to be hurtful or anything (not that yours was on the surface) but it takes a different meaning when he reaches out to you and you are giving him a response to his contact---rather than reaching out to essentially tell him it's over, which usually means the person is trying to "get" a response.  

Like you said, no big thing. onto the next Good luck

[poppyfields]

By announcing to him in a very matter of fact way "I can see you're not interested. All good," were you hoping for a reaction?   Consciously or not.

Hoping he'd respond with "why do you say that?" or yes of course I'm interested..." or the like?

It was an indirect and passive way of finding out how interested he is without directly asking and also playing the role of "the cool girl."  The "cool girl" being the topic of a different thread a few days ago. 

Not accusing, nor judging, I've done same.  However, I've since learned to be more direct, less confusing that way.

I could be wrong but it sounds like you really like this guy! 

I mean, I would think if you didn't, or no longer wanted to date him, you'd say nothing or if/when he contacted you for another date, simply wished him well and walked. 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by poppyfields

[kendahke]

18 hours ago, kiwistwbry said:

“I apologize for not responding. You are a wonderful person and I truly would like to see you again. I am going through a bit of a mess socially and mentally so it is difficult for me to imagine I would have much to offer. I can be a bit socially awkward sometimes and it drives me absolutely crazy because it has been very difficult to overcome.”

Any thoughts on this?

He needs a therapist more than he needs a new girlfriend.

[Lotsgoingon]

20 hours ago, kiwistwbry said:

This is where my confusion comes in. If he’s not ready for a relationship or not that interested, then why say “You are a wonderful person and I truly would like to see you again.” Why not say something like this instead? “You are a wonderful person but I’m just not looking for a relationship.” 

He doesn't say this because he probably IS looking for a relationship, just not with you. 

BTW: there is no such thing as mixed messages. It's either overwhelming interest and responsive or disinterest ... all the stuff in between just means the person thinks you would be good for someone--someone else ... and they're just not confident enough and clear enough to say what they mean, which is something along the lines of: good to meet you, talking to you was pleasant, but I have no further interest in seeing you. Have a good life. 

Absolutely no such thing as mixed messages--other than deliberately mixed ... which should always be interpreted as no interest. 

[kiwistwbry]

5 hours ago, poppyfields said:

By announcing to him in a very matter of fact way "I can see you're not interested. All good," were you hoping for a reaction?   Consciously or not.

Hoping he'd respond with "why do you say that?" or yes of course I'm interested..." or the like?

It was an indirect and passive way of finding out how interested he is without directly asking and also playing the role of "the cool girl."  The "cool girl" being the topic of a different thread a few days ago. 

Not accusing, nor judging, I've done same.  However, I've since learned to be more direct, less confusing that way.

I could be wrong but it sounds like you really like this guy! 

I mean, I would think if you didn't, or no longer wanted to date him, you'd say nothing or if/when he contacted you for another date, simply wished him well and walked. 

 

No I was trying to end things so that I could move on and stop feeling like a fool. This way he couldn’t keep stringing me along. And yet here we are. I’m done though. It’s been 3 days since my last message. He’s clearly not what I’m looking for and I really don’t deserve this.

Edited October 11, 2020 by kiwistwbry

[ExpatInItaly]

6 hours ago, kiwistwbry said:

No I was trying to end things so that I could move on and stop feeling like a fool. This way he couldn’t keep stringing me along. And yet here we are. I’m done though. It’s been 3 days since my last message. He’s clearly not what I’m looking for and I really don’t deserve this.

It's on you not to allow yourself to be strung along too, OP. 

It's not about what you do or don't deserve. It's about correctly reading the room and finding the exit when the inhabitant of that room makes it clear that you're not going to be comfortable in there. You don't need to wait around for them to guide you to the exit. 

Edited October 11, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[Wiseman2]

10 hours ago, kiwistwbry said:

This way he couldn’t keep stringing me along.

Sorry about that. Keep in mind 3 dates is not a relationship so there's nothing to end.

You can and should be dating others anyway at that point.

Next time if someone ghosts after 3 dates don't bother with them anymore.

Just  don't even go out with messed up turds  with all these red flags.

Don't get into a defensive position with preemptive strikes, etc. Be in a position to do the choosing, not cower and hope to be chosen.

 

 

[poppyfields]

13 hours ago, kiwistwbry said:

No I was trying to end things so that I could move on and stop feeling like a fool. This way he couldn’t keep stringing me along. 

I totally get that but looking at it from the recipient's (his) perspective it sounds like you were either seeking reassurance OR because you felt like a fool, you wanted to let him know you're on to his game and you're done which sounds passively pissy.

For me I would never presume to know how a man feels or what his interest in me is.  In early dating, there are so many nuances, things are never so black and white.  People have anxieties, fears, play games.  

I might have a strong sense of how interested he is it but I'm never that presumptuous. 

And even if I were that psychic, I'd never say it to him.

If I felt his interest was low, I would either ask, or play it out a bit longer.

OR if I decided to stop dating him as you did, I would simply stop texting him and if/when he texted me, I would tell him that I was no longer interested and wish him the best.  

I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound preachy, you do you and what's done is done.  

The end result is the same anyway.

Next!  Lol

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by poppyfields