Are Boundaries Being Crossed?

[CherryBing26]

My boyfriend has a “best friend” who is a girl. He considers her family his family. She is married and has been with the same man for 8 years. She is quite the party girl - she drinks heavily on the weekends and sometimes during the week as she is not employed. Her mother is really sick so I understand if she is trying to cope. 
 

My boyfriend previously had a pretty bad drinking problem. He still sometimes struggles with it as he is in his beginning stages of turning over a new leaf. He has voiced to her multiple times that he wants to change his life and does not want to party hard. She still calls him when she’s drunk and asks him to come drink... she has even gone as far as calling him names and saying he’s a pussy for not coming out. His excuse is “well she was drunk and she’s going through a rough time.” 
 

There have been occasions when I have gone to one of her parties with him and she begs him to stay later when we tell her we’re planning on leaving. (She tells him she’s upset about her mom and wants to be around friends) It makes me feel kind of awkward especially because she will call him hours later in the middle of the night. There was another instance where he told her the names I had picked out for future children and she criticized them all (he told me she didn’t like any of them) and then another occasion where she told him that our matching Halloween costume idea was “lame.” 
 

I finally told him I felt a bit uncomfortable by her and that I don’t care for her opinions. He said he can understand where I’m coming from but she is like a “guy to him” and married. He usually doesn’t hang with her a lot, but the times he does usually consist of him drinking and getting drunk with her (with and without the husband around). 
 

My boyfriend has a handful of friends that are girls and I actually don’t mind it at all. The other ones have been respectful and I don’t feel uncomfortable in the least. 
 

Am I wrong for feeling like this is crossing boundaries? I would like some input on this to see if maybe I am overreacting. 

[Wiseman2]

11 minutes ago, CherryBing26 said:

My boyfriend previously had a pretty bad drinking problem.  She still calls him when she’s drunk and asks him to come drink.

Sorry to hear this. They are both alcoholics. They are not "best friends", they are drinking buddies. You need to end it with him. He is still a problem drinker. His drinking buddy is a nonissue.  Because if he didn't have a drinking problem, she wouldn't be around.

End it or your life will be a living hell because of him, not her. He is far  from clean and sober or 'turning over a new leaf" That is denial. It's easier to look at the nonissue (female drinking buddy ) than it is to look at the real problem (he's an alcoholic)

Get some help for yourself. Read up on being involved with problem drinkers/alcoholics:  https://al-anon.org/newcomers/self-quiz/adult-quiz/

[GeorgiaPeach1]

I’ve been through something similar and let me tell you this: if your partner isn’t concerned about the negative effect his trashy friend has on HIS life, he isn’t going to see YOUR level of discomfort. 
 

[d0nnivain]

She is crossing your boundaries but she is not crossing his boundaries.  There's  a difference.  She was his friend before you came into the picture.  She will be his friend after you are gone.   By pushing him to accept your boundaries about her as his boundaries you are going to end up pushing yourself out of the relationship with him.  Make peace with her role in his life or get a new BF.  He may change on his own but you demanding that he pick you over her, will cause him to pick her.  

[Maldives]

Yep crossing a boundary alright 

[Watercolors]

6 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

By pushing him to accept your boundaries about her as his boundaries you are going to end up pushing yourself out of the relationship with him.  Make peace with her role in his life or get a new BF.  He may change on his own but you demanding that he pick you over her, will cause him to pick her.  

I agree with d0nnivain about the boundaries issue. It's healthy that you set your boundary (expressing your concerns about her influence on your b/f). But, that may create a divide between you and he, since she was there before you. Unfortunately, you'll have to accept her presence in his life if you want to stay in this r/s. Never ask a b/f to pick sides. He'll always pick his friends over his g/f.

If it's too much for you, then now would be the time to tell your b/f that you don't feel like the r/s with him is good for you b/c of her toxic influence on his sobriety and on his life, and then break up with him. Otherwise, you could offer to attend AA meetings with him, or attend AA meetings for significant others of alcoholics to get the kind of support you need right now. That's what my friends have done who have significant others who are in AA or NA. It's helped them cope a lot. Some have been able to handle the toxic hangers-on around their significant others, while other friends have been overwhelmed and had to break up in order to get out of a toxic relationship.
 

[Commongoal123]

The girl sounds like a handful.  However... your story leaves me wondering why she is leaning on your boyfriend so much instead of her own husband.  I.e. calling drunk in the middle of the night.  Where is her husband?  What does he have to say about all this?

That raises a bit of a flag for me.  It sounds like maybe things aren't good between them.

Also what the user GeorgiaPeach stated above also rings clear to me.

[kendahke]

On 10/8/2020 at 3:06 PM, CherryBing26 said:

Am I wrong for feeling like this is crossing boundaries? I would like some input on this to see if maybe I am overreacting. 

Feelings are neither right nor wrong: they just are. It's the action you assign to the feelings that enter into the realm of right and wrong.

Here's the thing; you've been with him how long? and this chick is still holding this much sway over him? and he know how you feel about her behavior where it interferes with your relationship with him? and he's done nothing concrete to shift out of that or to set her straight?  Then his loyalty is stronger with her than it is with you.  Meaning: you're the expendable one here, not her, because he's constructed it to be that way.

You don't have as strong a relationship with him as you think you do. Even though she's married, she's got the priority girlfriend spot, not you. That much is evident by how much access she has with your boyfriend..  CommonGoal123 is right--where is her husband and why isn't she leaning on him like she's leaning on your boyfriend? I'd proceed with the utmost caution with him. In fact, I'd start pulling away until he open up a can of "act right" and checks this friend of his.

Edited October 10, 2020 by kendahke

[CherryBing26]

He usually denies all her invites. Probably 90% of them honestly. But he tells me she’s upset at him for it. She will sometimes text him randomly asking “are you around?” and when he says no, she says “nevermind.” He keeps reiterating that she’s married and going through a rough time in life but I almost feel like it bothers her that he stopped drinking with her and that she no longer has an upper hand or “top friend spot” in his life. Her husband just seems to not care about it. He’s always working so I’m not sure if he 100% notices. 
 

I can’t tell him to stop being her friend. I guess I will just continue to monitor it and reiterate that her opinions don’t matter to me. If anymore lines are crossed I’ll have to make some decisions. 

[Atwood]

I think being prepared to make some difficult decisions is a good strength for you to hang onto right now. It is especially important that you retain the confidence to follow through with those decisions. Think about what you want and need in a partner, in a relationship, in your life. Is this what you would get involved in if you knew the situation prior? Are you prepared to deal with the consequences if this friend of his drags him back into that life when things get rocky for him? We all go through ups and downs throughout life, big and small, and being a recovering alcoholic makes those ups and downs even harder. On top of that, he has a drinking buddy constantly badgering him to give into drink. It sounds extremely precarious to me. Addicts who are serious about giving up usually heavily reduce contact, or even cut out, friends from their addiction lifestyle because the temptation and enabling from those friends is just too much. 

And by the way, I do think she is breaking his boundaries. You said that he told her he wants to stop drinking and turn over a new leaf, and what does she do? Calls him when she's drunk, insists he gets involved and stays involved, and sulks about him prioritising other things. People who care about you and want better for you aren't the people putting the bottle back in your hand. 

Of course, I feel terrible for her and what she has been through, and it seems that you do too which is admirable. However, that doesn't mean that she isn't causing harm and hurt to your partner, his recovery and your relationship. You are allowed to express concern over this to him, and I think it's understandable to expect him to enforce his boundaries. Show him where she is breaking them and how she is disrespecting him and hopefully he can put more appropriate boundaries in place. 

As others have said, you are well within your rights to up and leave. Plenty of people drink responsibly and have healthy boundaries with their friends. You're allowed to want that. Any time you spend helping him sort out this issue is not something you have to do, it's your choice to do so and you are under no obligation. 

 

edit: I really do hope you'll be okay. It sounds like a really difficult, awful situation to be in and I can't imagine how hurtful it must be at times. Whatever choice you make is valid and I wish you all the best. 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Atwood

[smackie9]

Time to come up with a solution instead of complaining. This woman is in dire trouble, and I have to ask, where is her husband in all this?? Why isn't she leaning on him?

To me your husband has two choices: cut her off or help her...he can tell her that if she doesn't get help, get counseling and stop drinking, he can no longer be associated with her for the sanctity of his own sobriety...tough words but needs to be done....or have an intervention involving everyone (friends/ family) offering help. TBH he might be at a loss at what to really do about it, and I know men (most of them) would rather sweep it under the rug. If you showed concern and some compassion, it may just get him motivated to actually be a real friend and do something about it, and also at the same time respect your relationship and his sobriety. A different perspective, a different approach might work.

Edited October 11, 2020 by smackie9

[Versacehottie]

On 10/8/2020 at 1:04 PM, d0nnivain said:

She is crossing your boundaries but she is not crossing his boundaries.  There's  a difference.  She was his friend before you came into the picture.  She will be his friend after you are gone.   By pushing him to accept your boundaries about her as his boundaries you are going to end up pushing yourself out of the relationship with him.  Make peace with her role in his life or get a new BF.  He may change on his own but you demanding that he pick you over her, will cause him to pick her.  

I agree. He chose her as a friend.  You wouldn't and she does sound like a pain in the butt and very dominating personality.  She sounds like an annoying friend of his--which sometimes boyfriends have--I don't think her gender matters really--other than his guy friends probably wouldn't have much to say about your baby names so that's probably less annoying.

I think you can say not to share those sorts of personal things with her (like the baby names and the private stuff between you). You have a right as one half a couple to protect personal things that are special to you especially with someone who tears it down, disrespects you in a way.  That boundary is between you and him though. If you live with him and any of those drunk middle of the night calls are waking you up, I think you have a right to draw a boundary, as one half of the couple, ie again the boundary is with him--perhaps he should shut off his phone or put it in sleep mode or airplane mode.  But honey, the real problem is your boyfriend.

But I agree with wiseman, you are focusing on this much smaller problem (his annoying friend) when the big problem is that your boyfriend has a drinking problem still--and she is just the most annoying reminder.  It's deflecting from the real issue.

[kendahke]

5 hours ago, CherryBing26 said:

But he tells me she’s upset at him for it.

Does he care that she's upset?  That's the issue. If he doesn't care, why even bring that up?

Quote

I almost feel like it bothers her that he stopped drinking with her and that she no longer has an upper hand or “top friend spot” in his life.

You're probably right.

My ex had a married friend who was like this, minus the drinking.  She even tried to fix him up with friends of hers because she didn't like that he was dating me. He would rarely take me around her--not because I had an issue: I was oblivious until much later--but because she had the issue.  It became noticeable when the few times I did go with him to her house, the things she would say in front of me and him didn't sit right with me.  Once at a yard party, she was pretty wasted and she came over to us and in front of me said "You need to come hang out with me without her (me) like we used to back in the day" and he said nothing. I was like "ok, she's putting me on notice" and I let it ride that night.  I brought it up to him a few days later and asked him if he remembered her saying that. He did and I asked him if a friend of mine said that to me in front of you, what would you have wanted me to say to him?  I'm not asking for much but that she respect that I'm your girlfriend and she's not.  He called her and asked her to smooth things over with me and she went the. hell. off. on him. Right there and then, he put her in her place--I was shocked! I expected him to tuck his tail in order to keep her friendship, but he told me that he was sick and tired of her always having him to things for her, expending his time to do it and the one time he asks her for a favor, she can't do it.  I told him that if he'd been paying attention for the past 3 years, he'd have seen that she'd been doing this for quite a while.

Your man is going to have to put her in her place where no one is left wondering, If she's having that bad of a time, she needs a therapist, not your boyfriend.  If her husband can't help her, the therapist will. If your boyfriend isn't a licensed therapist or a substance abuse specialist, then he can't help her. That's just the plain fact.

[boymommy]

On 10/9/2020 at 12:26 AM, Commongoal123 said:

The girl sounds like a handful.  However... your story leaves me wondering why she is leaning on your boyfriend so much instead of her own husband.  I.e. calling drunk in the middle of the night.  Where is her husband?  What does he have to say about all this?

That raises a bit of a flag for me.  It sounds like maybe things aren't good between them.

Also what the user GeorgiaPeach stated above also rings clear to me.

I can answer that..her husband isnt codepedent and OP’s boyfriend is. So she knows to go to him and not the husband. It will be harder for your boyfriend to get into recovery with a friend who is active drinker. He isnt yet serious about recovery since he isnt changing his people, places, things..you cant do that for him either. 
 

Being in this relationship means really good self care and seperate yourself from his addiction. Let him take care of that stuff and communicate about stuff related to your relationship..so in this case its an issue with his friend’s poor boundaries. Thats a relationship issue but the drinking piece is his seperate issue..address only your feelings about the friend’s poor boundaries and how that makes you feel and nothing related to his (or her) drinking (which would fall under the umbrella of codependency). Even though its not violating his boundaries, its violating your’s and you are entitled to speak up in a healthy way. 

[kismetkismet]

She honestly just kinda seems like a bad friend regardless of her gender. I don't get the sense that there are emotional/romantic boundaries being crossed, but it sounds like she refuses to accept the fact that her friend has grown up and doesn't want to engage in the destructive partying anymore. How long has this been going on for? I'd hope that with time she'd come to accept that he's moved on from being her destructive-drinking-buddy. But, if that doesn't happen soon he should have another talk with her and let her know that while he wants to continue being her friend he's not interested in drinking like that anymore. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Your bf has a boundary problem. He doesn't say no to this woman who entices him and encourages him to drink in a way that's not good for him. BF needs to be able to say no. That's why you want to partner with people who can set good boundaries. Waking you up ... calling in the middle of the night ... commenting on something as private the fantasy names you have for children ... all of that is out of bounds ...and bf is at fault here ... But let's go further, he's hanging out like this with a married woman? Are you kidding me? That's the strangest most bizarre @$%% I've heard in a long time.

Now, as to your boundary ... you can set one with bf. That's all you can do. Setting a boundary would be the next time he gets up and leaves you for this woman, you need to tell him that this isn't working for you and that you aren't going to beg someone to change. And you need to think about where you want to set the limits. Your bf has a drinking problem--there's always a boundary violation when someone has a drinking problem ... always! ... inherent to the problem. Person gets drunk, spends money, expects you to forgive them and give them more money. You end up losing yourself in trying to help the partner.

So what's your limit?

BF ... a woman can be like a "guy" to him in one minute and alcohol and late nights ... are you kidding me? It's ridiculously easy to get involved when both people are drinkers ... might be the reason she's inviting him out to drink .. sorry to raise this possibility ... but might be that's their "code" for seeing each other. And yes, need to be drunk to get on top of each other. I'm not saying this is the case, but run this exact scenario 100 times ... and I'd say 70 percent of the time the couple is sexually involved. 

Dump this guy and move on. Dating someone who can't set boundaries always ends up in disaster. They can't say no to others. They neglect you ... they don't protect the relationship ... they basically let people push them around ... you have to be able to carve out time for a relationship ... 

[snowboy91]

Bit of a tricky situation. I'm getting the feeling your BF isn't going to cross any boundaries with regard to intimacy/sex or anything like that - I'd trust him when he says she's "like a guy to him".

She, on the other hand, wants people around her that she can party hard with, and sees your BF as one of those people. She's not respecting your BF's boundaries (namely not wanting to drink as much any more, calling in the middle of the night, but so far nothing to do with sex), and I'm guessing your BF isn't quite sure what to do about it, considering he still cares about her as a friend but it's dragging him (and your relationship) down.

He's the one stuck in the middle of all this, so I certainly wouldn't blame him, but he may have some tough decisions to make for his own sake.

[CherryBing26]

Soooo yesterday I went to visit my friend (my GIRL friend) so my boyfriend ended up seeing his girl best friend. They didn’t drink but they walked her dogs together, road on his motorcycle together to the grocery store, and then came back and cooked dinner. I’m not sure if her husband was home or at work but I can’t help but just feel sad about it. I don’t know if I’m overreacting and being insecure or if this is just crossing lines. He hasn’t seen her in a month probably but it just seems a bit too much. Any advice on what to do? 

[d0nnivain]

My advice hasn't changed about what you should do.  Accept that she's here to stay & make peace with it or get out.   Frankly I can tolerate different sex pre-existing friendships but the motorcycle ride seems a tad too intimate for me to stick around.   It's up to you but you are never going to get between them

[Crazelnut]

1 hour ago, CherryBing26 said:

Soooo yesterday I went to visit my friend (my GIRL friend) so my boyfriend ended up seeing his girl best friend. They didn’t drink but they walked her dogs together, road on his motorcycle together to the grocery store, and then came back and cooked dinner. I’m not sure if her husband was home or at work but I can’t help but just feel sad about it. I don’t know if I’m overreacting and being insecure or if this is just crossing lines. He hasn’t seen her in a month probably but it just seems a bit too much. Any advice on what to do? 

Good lord, why are you putting up with this?? This isn't like a couple of guys hanging out. Your BF has an intimate, nonsexual relationship with another woman. You will always come in 2nd behind her. Why do you allow this?

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, CherryBing26 said:

Soooo yesterday I went to visit my friend (my GIRL friend) so my boyfriend ended up seeing his girl best friend. They didn’t drink but they walked her dogs together, road on his motorcycle together to the grocery store, and then came back and cooked dinner. I’m not sure if her husband was home or at work but I can’t help but just feel sad about it. I don’t know if I’m overreacting and being insecure or if this is just crossing lines. He hasn’t seen her in a month probably but it just seems a bit too much. Any advice on what to do? 

She doesn't need a husband, she has your BF.

[CherryBing26]

We talked about it and I told him I’m a little uncomfortable by it. I asked if he would feel uncomfortable if I rode on a motorcycle with my guy friend and cooked dinner with him alone? He said it’s different because I’m not as close with my guy friend and he doesn’t know him that well so he’d feel weird about it. 
 

I don’t know this girl best friend of his that well either. We’ve only met maybe twice. 
 

They only hang out maybe once or twice a month but it still just bothers me. He felt the need to tell me she’s being something “slutty” and revealing for Halloween and her husband is the one who picked out her costume. He then told me I should be something slutty too....(we are going to her Halloween party). I was like no thank you, I’m going to be 31, I’m not 21. It just makes me feel awkward, like he values what she does or her opinion a little too much. Even when I wear a tank top that shows a little cleavage he makes remarks but now it’s suddenly ok for me to dress slutty for Halloween? 
 

Anyway, thanks for all the responses everyone. I know this girl is not going away and I have to decide if this is something I want in my life. I haven’t made the decision yet but I will keep all advice in mind. 
 

 

[Crazelnut]

So he'd have a problem with you doing it, but it's ok because he knows her better. That doesn't even make sense. He's a hypocrite.

I couldn't do it. I couldn't tolerate my SO being that intimate with another woman. You will always play 2nd fiddle to her.

[Miss Spider]

He can f out of here with that. I wouldn’t date a guy who entertained stuff like that. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Cookiesandough