Supporting person going through recovering spouse

[Legatus]

My friend, let's call her Victoria, has been married for 6 years and has known her husband for more than 10. They have two kids: a 1-year old and a 4-year old.

Between 2017-2019 I haven't been in too much contact with her as I was working with NGOs in South America but when I came to live to London in 2019 I finally visited home. Everything seemed all right and I haven't noticed anything particularly wrong with their relationship but at the same time I was a guest and the key was to see my friend, not to evaluate her marriage. 

Once we re-established contact because I was in the similar time zone we started talking like we have done before.

Fast forward one year. Let's say few months ago. Things are going worse. He is stuck at pointless job while she opened her own business like she planned for the last decade. Seems like he feels resentful she wouldn't stay at home with kids. He works night shifts, then sleeps most of the day but is constantly tired. Doesn't pay attention to her, falls asleep while watching kids alone, always tied. 

Two weeks ago she decided to get his parents involved and invited them to dinner so they can see for themselves. His physical appearance changed, he wasn't taking care of himself, let alone anybody else. Few days after that dinner he finally went to the hospital and the doctors said his liver looks like of somebody who had been drinking for 10 years. Imagine my friend's shock. It's not like she doesn't like a glass of wine at the end of the day but few months ago she came home from work and found him asleep on the couch. She started preparing dinner in the kitchen and took a sip of sprite left on the table. It wasn't sprite. It was vodka. This was his first and the only slip-up that triggered his secret's demise.

Anyway, he admitted he had a problem for 5 years, which to me means it's at least 7-8, not to mention the doctors have probably seen so many livers that they know what they're talking about when saying 10 years.

She has been saying that her life seems like a lie, she can't believe they were trying to have kids while he was already an alcoholic, that he could have been under the influence when picking kids from childcare, in a car, etc.

I support her mostly by listening. I have no experience in dealing with people with such addiction. Obviously her whole marriage seems like a sham to her and nobody cared. While he was in a hospital for two weeks, he never asked her how she felt, his parents neither. Of course the focus is to bring him help but his parents seem to rush it so such that it looks like they're doing it because they don't want an alcoholic son. They also think that few weeks in rehab is going to fix everything.

Like I mentioned, I have no experience in something like that. I wonder if people who were at any side of such story could share their experiences. Is there anything I can do for my friend? He came back home for 1 day between leaving hospital and going to his parents house and acted like nothing happened, while her only thought is when she can get a divorce.

 

I don't want to play a therapist here since she has one, I'm listening, but I would also like to be helpful and to understand this situation better. Is he in some kind of denial?

[Wiseman2]

Can you redirect her to the appropriate support? Al-Anon is for people involved with alcoholics.

You need to pull back. It's enabling her to just complain to you but do nothing to improve her situation.

Pull back suggest she get Professional counselling and contact the appropriate support groups.

Steer clear of the "my spouse is a monster, but I'm just going to complain" trap.

[Ellener]

18 hours ago, Legatus said:

He came back home for 1 day between leaving hospital and going to his parents house and acted like nothing happened, while her only thought is when she can get a divorce.

It doesn't sound like either of them is very attached, to each other, or reality, but no, there's nothing you can do to 'help' them right now. Only the two of them can fix their marriage, or  make a decent divorce where they make appropriate practical and emotional provision for their children, and only he can stop drinking alcohol.

You want to help someone? I get like that myself a lot, but I'm finally learning to channel it into useful positive things like volunteering, or before the pandemic, work. Or creative stuff like painting or writing. Your work with NGOs was really cool, do you miss it? I still miss social work though I don't want to ( can't! ) do it any more. 

I think if you want to keep your friendship set big boundaries, it's best to steer clear of anyone else's marriage problems; people sometimes do a lot of 'family' drama then reconcile for practical and or emotional reasons, the dynamics don't usually make sense to anyone else. 

What are you doing for a job now?

 

 

 

 

[Legatus]

19 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Pull back suggest she get Professional counselling and contact the appropriate support groups.

She started seeing a therapist, which I think was a very good move. Everything was too much for her to handle. 

 

20 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You need to pull back. It's enabling her to just complain to you but do nothing to improve her situation.

I did it recently. Right now I have no mental capacity to discuss her marriage every day. She knows that I can't really help as this is between them, so I just stick to reassuring her that I understand and am here for her, but I try not to advise or give my opinions because they're not useful and just put more petrol into the fire.

 

4 hours ago, Ellener said:

Only the two of them can fix their marriage, or  make a decent divorce where they make appropriate practical and emotional provision for their children, and only he can stop drinking alcohol.

This is what I keep telling myself all the time. This week we only spoke once, briefly, because I can't be her therapist after all. Instead I try to tell her more about my travels or my dancing, how it's going, actually keeping it pretty casual so that she doesn't have to talk about the same thing over and over again.

 

4 hours ago, Ellener said:

What are you doing for a job now?

I have four  9-5 as a Senior Data Analyst, then my freelance, I'm Data trustee for an NGO I used to volunteer in Peru for, and helping my friend in New York setup her NGO in New York. Therefore no problem with getting busy or anything, I just want to understand few things myself, more from curiosity. Like the denial. The brief chat we had this week, she told me they met for 1h. He didn't say anything, blamed her for opening her business, for occasionally raising her voice at home, things like that. No "I am sorry I lied to you for the last 5 years". I just told her not to expect much from the rehab because his parents behave like they're doing it for themselves aka. "I can't have an alcoholic son" rather than to help him. They just want to know the reason after one week of therapy and when he'll be "fixed"..

[Wiseman2]

She needs Al Anon. You need to stop entertaining the family drama . Just listening is not helping you or her or her kids,etc. 

Sorry but if she tells you one more time about how she leaves her kids alone with this fall-down drunk, tell her you'll call child protective services.

She's not the victim here, she's a co- conspirator. Personally I have zero respect for people looking for pity when they are putting thier kids in harm's way by staying with drunks.

Stop listening to her and call CPS.

[d0nnivain]

The best thing you can do is offer to "go" to an al-anon meeting with her. They are on line now through Covid.  She doesn't have to turn on her camera if she doesn't want to.  But she needs people who have been there. 

You don's specify your gender but it you are man, you are on a slippery slope here.  You don't want your friend seeing you as a white knight or wondering if an affair with you is the answer to her prayers.  

[Ellener]

5 hours ago, Legatus said:

I just want to understand few things myself, more from curiosity. Like the denial.

There are some brilliant online courses now, like edEx where all the top universities around the world offer education and training in many subjects, some are completely free. I did a couple myself this summer.

Denial is a defence mechanism. Your friend and her husband both use it from your description.

I don't much like the label 'alcoholic', people tend to use it as a criticism or an insult which doesn't help someone with an addiction or heading for addiction.

Your friend is not being very kind or supportive here, she may just be using alcohol as an excuse to leave the marriage, instead of saying 'I don't want to be married any more', she's happy to let her husband do the childcare for example so presumably it's not as bad as she complains?

 

 

 

 

[d0nnivain]

I agree with @Ellenerabout your friend being in denial.  If her husband is admitting that he's had a problem with alcohol for 5 years, why is she saying she just noticed it a few months ago after the vodka / sprite thing?   

[Legatus]

Her husband said it after the doctors told her first. He was doing it mostly outside of the house I guess, sneaking around. Nobody noticed or suspected a thing. 

8 hours ago, Ellener said:

she's happy to let her husband do the childcare for example so presumably it's not as bad as she complains

I think this may have got out of context. Most of the time she would stay with kids and after she opened her business it would be either babysitters or kindergartens. But since she works Saturdays (instead of Wednesdays) he would stay with them on Saturday 

 

7 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

If her husband is admitting that he's had a problem with alcohol for 5 years,

That's the thing. After the doctors told her and his parents that his liver looks like of somebody with at least 10-year addiction, he said "no it was only 5 years". He never admitted he had a problem. I think right now he's just doing what his parents want, because apparently he behaved like nothing happened

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, Legatus said:

he would stay with them on Saturday 

You need to back up from this and refer to Al Anon. Alcoholics lie. That's just the way it it is.

[Ellener]

On 10/9/2020 at 4:35 PM, Legatus said:

I think this may have got out of context. Most of the time she would stay with kids and after she opened her business it would be either babysitters or kindergartens. But since she works Saturdays (instead of Wednesdays) he would stay with them on Saturday 

No responsible mother is going to let a person falling down drunk near her children any day of the week.

There is more to this situation than your friend is revealing.

[Wiseman2]

It's weird that you need this in your life. Weirder yet is that you are enabling her and not suggesting appropriate support groups.

Weirdest of all is that you passively lap up this drama and train wreck in progress, yet you won't do anything to help such as offer to watch the kids instead of them being alone with this drunk.

You don't really seem like a friend, you seem like someone who enjoys a front row seat to someone else's tragedy by "just listening" 

[Legatus]

 

4 hours ago, Ellener said:

No responsible mother is going to let a person falling down drunk near her children any day of the week.

Well, he was never drunk at home, at least not to anybody's knowledge. Of course she wouldn't have let him stay with the kids had she known what he was up to outside of home. The one time she caught him, he wasn't with the kids, thank all the gods

There's always more to the story but that's why I am not a detective trying to uncover the truth here, I suggested seeing a therapist, which she started doing. I think it'll be the best help

Edited October 11, 2020 by Legatus

[Legatus]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's weird that you need this in your life. Weirder yet is that you are enabling her and not suggesting appropriate support groups.

Weirdest of all is that you passively lap up this drama and train wreck in progress, yet you won't do anything to help such as offer to watch the kids instead of them being alone with this drunk.

You don't really seem like a friend, you seem like someone who enjoys a front row seat to someone else's tragedy by "just listening" 

Let me adress your assumptions one by one:

1. I never said I needed it. I suggested a therapist and she's seeing one right now

2. It's hard to watch her kids when you live on another side of a continent in one of the worst-hit country in terms of covid. but otherwise, oh it's always a pleasure to watch them!

3. I also never said that I enjoyed it. If you can't see the power of listening (at least to some extent), then don't necessarily apply this to everybody and every situation.

[Ellener]

46 minutes ago, Legatus said:

I suggested seeing a therapist, which she started doing. I think it'll be the best help

Maybe.

I think you need to stay away from your friend and let her fix her own problems.