Self-deception and dating

[JasonLevi]

It’s an old story. We meet someone, we click, we chat, we laugh, we flirt, we may even kiss and more, but then...the other person suddenly become busy. They take a long while to respond to our messages, they can’t meet up very often, etc. How does the average person react?

The average person will make excuses. Here are examples from fellow LoveShackers found in posts from the last 2 weeks:

1.       The timing was not right for them.

2.       He’s just not a great communicator.

3.       She’s playing hard to get.

4.       She’s really shy.

5.       He’s just not ready for a relationship.

6.       He’s broke so despite my insisting that we meet, he just doesn’t want to at the moment.

7.       Her medication messed up her chemistry for me! (Really?!)

I am as much of a victim of this self-deception as any of these posters. I dated a woman, and we were great together etc, but she was aloof, and would only want to meet up once every 1 or 2 weeks even though she didn’t have a job at the time, and we both lived 30 minutes from each other. She didn’t really want to get physical with me and suggested we meet outdoors for any dates. I made up a ton of excuses for her behavior – she’s shy, she’s just very independent, she’s got a lot on her plate right now. Yet, the truth was that she was just not interested. People who are interested will find time, want to talk to you, will initiate etc. It’s only a month after we broke up that I can see the matter clearly.

Now of course there can be legitimate reasons for someone becoming distant, but usually it’s their lack of interest. Our tendency to self-deception is very strong when we like someone.

How should we keep our perspective as objective and sound as possible when we like someone romantically? Let’s brainstorm!

[basil67]

It's simple: Don't make excuses for them.   If they can't hold up their end of the deal early on, just ditch them.   It really is this simple.   (written by someone who has been in a solid relationship for nearly 30 years)

[Maldives]

That's a hard one. When we really like someone the brain and reason check out.

I've been giving this some thought lately funnily enough wondering why I do this. There was an article I read which talks about this. Can't recall it well however I do remember the part it talks about the wiring in the brain changes when we're really into someone kinda like a bridge bonding you to the other person. 

I think our whole lives are wired to attracting the other sex. We are all craving for love. How to recognise it early I think comes down to how confident you are as a person and your level of self esteem 

[Wiseman2]

Have a hard list of red flags and apply them early. Screen well and cut your loses sooner.

[Fletch Lives]

Great opening post. One of the main reasons dates don't go anywhere is because, the person just is not very attracted to you.

But there is also another common problem - the person is crazy.

[d0nnivain]

When you meet somebody for a date, if you don't get a 2nd date, no matter what they actually say, what excuse they give for no 2nd date, the cold hard reality is that you didn't float their boat, they weren't interested.  All the excuses are just ways to sugar coat the rejection. 

Don't be mad at the person for not straight up saying I don't like you enough for a 2nd date.  Just move along & do not hold out hope.  

If somebody is busy but interested, they will work with you to schedule a date even if it's a bit of a struggle.  If somebody thinks you are hot / desirable they will find a way even if the timing is not right.  

[smackie9]

When I was in my teens I did the "I'm too busy" or whatever excuses, some got it, some kept being persistent. That's why my advice on here is, "ditch them and move on", because I know it's due to a lack of interest, it's a no brainer. Like I always say, if you don't get a definite YES to a date and time, it's not going to happen. Cancelled once? sure, but twice? kick to curb. Easy rules to play by.

[Watercolors]

11 hours ago, JasonLevi said:

The average person will make excuses. Here are examples from fellow LoveShackers found in posts from the last 2 weeks:

1.       The timing was not right for them.

2.       He’s just not a great communicator.

3.       She’s playing hard to get.

4.       She’s really shy.

5.       He’s just not ready for a relationship.

6.       He’s broke so despite my insisting that we meet, he just doesn’t want to at the moment.

7.       Her medication messed up her chemistry for me! (Really?!)

Having heard all of these excuses myself, and even some not listed my philosophy is this: if you express interest in the person and they don't reciprocate...then that means they are not interested.

I can't tell you how many times in my past that I made excuses for men who behaved badly. One guy told me ahead of time he would be out of town for a week and wouldn't be in touch with me after we'd already been dating one month and slept together. Then, I saw him in a local bar during the week he was supposed to be out of town, where he was hanging out with a group of people and had a woman sitting on the arm rest of the chair he sat in. The look of horror on his face when he saw me staring at him is forever etched in my mind. I just stood there, glared at him, thought about going over to him to confront him. Then I thought, "Why bother. He's a creep." He never even bothered to call me after that to explain himself.
 

11 hours ago, JasonLevi said:

How should we keep our perspective as objective and sound as possible when we like someone romantically? Let’s brainstorm!

The best way to keep your perspective as objective and sound as possible is to do as others have already suggested:

1. Stop making excuses for ANYTHING that the person does, that leaves you questioning their interest level.
2. Screen the person within the first few dates with a list of red flags, to prevent yourself from being triggered and falling for the traps they set to snag you.
3. Have a set of standards and limits that you will not deviate from, no matter what. Because, the right person for you will meet your standards and limits without you having to educate them on what those are.
4. Know yourself extremely well. If you are still looking for someone to be in a r/s with because you don't like yourself, you will always, ALWAYS choose the wrong partner.
5.  Once you find yourself in a toxic dating or relationship situation, stop making excuses to yourself to stay. If you stay, the onus is on YOU. You and no one else, not even your toxic partner, is responsible for your choices.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Watercolors

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, JasonLevi said:

1.       The timing was not right for them.

2.       He’s just not a great communicator.

3.       She’s playing hard to get.

4.       She’s really shy.

5.       He’s just not ready for a relationship.

6.       He’s broke so despite my insisting that we meet, he just doesn’t want to at the moment.

7.       Her medication messed up her chemistry for me! (Really?!)

It's the ex, their kids, etc. 

It's the in-laws

It's job stress

It's covid

We live on different continents, have never met, but they're my soul-mate.

 

 

 

 

[snowboy91]

17 hours ago, Goodguy05 said:

When we really like someone the brain and reason check out.

You're really on point here. Reason leaves, and we're stuck hanging on to this idea that "I really really like him/her, I feel we have this great connection but... xyz". When an objective observer on the outside can tell that "xyz" shows fairly clearly they're not interested. It's because we can't see past our own emotions clearly, and sometimes forget there's two people involved and there is no guarantee that the other person is thinking the same way you are, or even saying what they're really thinking.

I know that sounds cynical, but it's really to step back and look at the situation objectively - does their behaviour suggest they are into you too? 

[MsJayne]

I find being totally negative is a great way to avoid unrealistic romantic expectations. If you approach all potential relationships with the solid belief that the other person is a prick who will discard you the moment you show interest, it helps to minimise both hope and damage. If you turn out to be right there's no harm done, and if you turn out wrong it's a pleasant surprise. 

[ajequals]

If we spend as much time  seeing each  as we do texting. the outcome would be much different. In my opinion there is no way to see if there's a spark on one date. those making that decision are really missing out on what might be there. very superficial in my opinion  Probably why there are sooooo. many single people

[Legatus]

22 hours ago, JasonLevi said:

How should we keep our perspective as objective and sound as possible when we like someone romantically? Let’s brainstorm!

Don't think about objectivity as the one and all. It is okay to be subjective. I would remember to not take things personally. If you learn to do that, you will realise that, in reality, we don't know why they do that. Could be their past, could be what their environment allowed them to do and they think it is okay. Whatever it is, we rarely find out the truth, but in the end you don't need to take up your time thinking about them, think about what it taught you. Even if it looks very hard right now, be mindful that, just like everything else, it is an experience that makes you stronger and you can use that knowledge to react better next time. If next time happens, which I hope it won't

One thing I would say from my experience is to be true to your sanity. If they did it and especially if they keep doing it, even if their intention is not to hurt you, you still do, and you have a right to take care of yourself, so fight for your sanity!

[Chilli]

 

Can't say as l'd agree on the more than one thing. There's so much more to things than just this text book so called spark and it should usually be very easy to know if you'd even wanna bother seeing that person again pretty well on sight , always was for me. People that drag it out against the grain , usually sleep with them and then wake up are just kidding themselves , or maybe they think well at least l'll get to sleep with someone,

Edited September 28, 2020 by Chilli

[Legatus]

On 9/27/2020 at 1:54 PM, d0nnivain said:

Don't be mad at the person for not straight up saying I don't like you enough for a 2nd date.

I would even go further and say appreciate it internally that people are upfront and honest, without being rude or hostile. It saves people a lot of time. Even if you disagree with them that perhaps more time was needed etc., in the end they have a right to say it's not for them and go.

[MeadowFlower]

On 9/28/2020 at 4:42 PM, snowboy91 said:

 

I know that sounds cynical, but it's really to step back and look at the situation objectively - does their behaviour suggest they are into you too? 

So if their behaviour suggests they are not into you... what do you do? Obviously not contact them and move on. But what if they contact you?? 

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, MeadowFlower said:

So if their behaviour suggests they are not into you... what do you do? Obviously not contact them and move on. But what if they contact you?? 

I think this is why the block and delete functions were created.  

[Watercolors]

2 hours ago, MeadowFlower said:

So if their behaviour suggests they are not into you... what do you do? Obviously not contact them and move on. But what if they contact you?? 

I can answer this. You don't contact them. Breadcrumbs are for the birds, not for single people. 

I hate text message breadcrumbs. I hate it when men do that to me, after I stop contacting them. Like, after a couple of dates, when its obvious I don't like him or vice versa, and he still reaches out to "test the waters" texting me as if we're still supposed to be connected. 

[Ruby Slippers]

If you have good self-esteem, respect for yourself and your time, it's very easy to see the signs and let mismatches pass you by. It's generally people who aren't confident in their ability to meet any number of the other tons of available people out there - or to simply be happy on their own - who cling to things that obviously aren't going anywhere.

[MeadowFlower]

45 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

I can answer this. You don't contact them. 

 

So I should essentially ghost them? 

[basil67]

6 minutes ago, MeadowFlower said:

So I should essentially ghost them? 

Yes.  Enforce your boundaries.  Protect yourself and your heart.

[Watercolors]

49 minutes ago, MeadowFlower said:

So I should essentially ghost them? 

Here you go: 

https://www.bustle.com/life/7-sample-texts-to-send-to-someone-whos-breadcrumbing-you-69996

https://www.bustle.com/p/sample-texts-for-confronting-someone-whos-breadcrumbing-you-because-you-dont-deserve-to-feel-scared-of-what-you-want-38141

[curlygirl40]

Great post.     For my background, I divorced 10 years ago and dated for 7 years before I met my now guy 3 years ago (Bumble!).   

I had a lot of rules, some that helped me get through that fog of making excuses, etc.   Some that were probably ridiculous.    

What I found the most helpful was to let go of the need to know why this or why that.   I had some GREAT dates, 2nd dates, 3rd dates, 6th dates, where the next day I could tell things were off, I backed off to then find that they were no longer interested.   Some ghosted.   Some were making excuses or never contacted me again.   It ran the gamut (what does that even mean?  I should google...)  Anyway, it left me so confused.      But what I found is that I had to be o.k with the not knowing, which is so tough!     But when you get to the place where you're like 'some will, some won't, so what, who's next?' and you are o.k with the not knowing, you then don't make excuses for the other person you just move on.    

You have to be o.k with not having an answer.  I always believed that even if I were to ask them "hey what happened?", I'm not getting the truth out of them anyway, so why bother?     Plus if I'm being completely honest, I couldn't stand the self esteem hit to be rejected if I continued to reach out and they continued to ignore or give me short answers to a text or whatever.   The rejection was hard enough without continuing to put myself in that position.   

I think where there isn't a clear cut answer, as people we tend to fill in the blanks with something that makes sense to us so we can have that 'closure' we want.   

For what it's worth, here are a few 'rules' I tried to follow.  

Don't chase, especially if there are signs the other person isn't interested

Mirror their actions.  They call, I answer or call back.  They text, I reply and be happy to hear from them.  They ask me out, I say yes.   I was always enthusiastic so the guy knew I was interested, but I didn't initiate.   

No sex until I could tell it had the potential to actually be something

No going back to a guy's place or have him at mine until I was ready for sex

You can't fix people.   If there was an issue there preventing them from being ready to date, let it go

Don't date separated people.  

As hard as it was, as long as the guy was doing the 'right' things, I wouldn't have the 'what are we?" conversation for 3-4 months.    

IMO, people tell you if they are interested through their actions, it's just that most of the time we aren't listening or ignoring the signs

And of course, I broke many of these rules many times.    lol     I tried though.   

[snowboy91]

7 hours ago, MeadowFlower said:

So if their behaviour suggests they are not into you... what do you do? Obviously not contact them and move on. But what if they contact you?? 

A few others have mentioned what to do if it's a breadcrumbing situation - even though they've contacted you, it still falls under "they're not into you". Or at least, not into you enough for it to be worth your effort.

[MeadowFlower]

I saw a quote somewhere today that said, "You'll never have to negotiate your way into a heart that wants you there."