Can a Person/Partner be Too Considerate?

[poppyfields]

Hey guys, need your opinions.  My boyfriend and I had a bit of an argument this morning, or more like a disagreement.  No it was an argument! 

We live in a condo complex on the top floor and have neighbors below us.  They often play music REALLY loud, we can even hear their TV sometimes, late at night/early morning when trying to sleep.

I think it's super inconsiderate but I suppose that's life living in such a complex.  But it annoys my bf, he has talked to them, but it still continues. 

Now, this is where I need your opinion. 

Despite my inconsiderate neighbors, I'm still very considerate of them.  Not patting myself on the back or anything, it's just how I was raised. 

So, this morning, as I do every morning, I made myself a b'fast shake using our very LOUD blender, it was 5:00 a.m.

So as to not wake our neighbors (blender is that loud, it's one of those high-powered Vitamix thingees), I shut all the windows.

Which for some reason today, really annoyed my boyfriend!!  He asked me why, in a very annoyed way, and I told him I didn't want to wake the downstairs neighbors! 

And well he kind of went off on me!  Reminding me how LOUD they are, that they're obviously not considerate of us so why should I go out of my way to be considerate of them? 

He went on to say (annoyed) who the hell cares if the blender wakes them up, do they care that their damn tele wakes us up??!!

In a way he was right but I dunno, I still felt that I should be considerate of them, was I wrong?  

I am now feeling like some sort of spineless pansy thinking - am I "too" considerate of people?  Too nice, too thoughtful when I don't get that back in return? 

What do y'all think?

For context, our relationship is under pressure right now as he wants to get married and I'm hesitant (long story).

Could that be why he became so annoyed with me??  Displaced anger or something?

Need help deciphering and navigating this, thanks!!  

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by poppyfields

[Fox Sake]

Treat others as you wish to be treated. You did nothing wrong. Your partner is obviously super pissed at them and probably wouldn’t have minded a bit of revenge. He probably couldn’t understand why you wouldn’t want it! 
 

I don’t think either of you did anything wrong. He’s obviously just more vengeful than you are towards them, and the annoyance they’ve caused. Obviously he should t get so angry at you tho. That’s not right.  
Try not to make a big thing out of it , if tensions are high between you then don’t make a vitamix the catalyst! Just try and understand each other’s views and accept them as each other’s   
 

edit - you could very well be right about why he’s so annoyed by the way. I wouldn’t put it past anyone to feel hurt and/or a little snappy in his position. Not that it’s your fault by any means , it just sucks when you’re not quite on the same page

Edited September 25, 2020 by Fox Sake

[Lorenza]

Well, I'm a very vengeful person, so I have no consideration for those, who are not considerate of me. Wrong me and it will come back with force (which probably isn't the right way to live, but there's fire in my blood lol).

People like you surprise me, and I even have a bit of admiration for them, my dear grandma was like you - no matter how people would wrong her, she used to act like she's above them all, graceful, kind and patient. I get how that can be annoying for your boyfriend, but I'd recommend you stay the way you are, rather than be like me being vengeful creates enemies. 

[introverted1]

I can relate, Poppy, as I tend to be like you. It also strikes me that your apartment does not have proper sound-proofing if it is so easy for your neighbors to disturb you.

That said...  only you know if your bf's reaction is characteristic of him.  You mention that your relationship is under pressure and I am sure that will magnify any disagreement you two have, and potentially distort who is right/wrong. Will you be able to resolve that pressure or is this a deal-breaker in the making?

[poppyfields]

Inrivert

6 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

I can relate, Poppy, as I tend to be like you. It also strikes me that your apartment does not have proper sound-proofing if it is so easy for your neighbors to disturb you.

That said...  only you know if your bf's reaction is characteristic of him.  You mention that your relationship is under pressure and I am sure that will magnify any disagreement you two have, and potentially distort who is right/wrong. Will you be able to resolve that pressure or is this a deal-breaker in the making?

Thanks introverted (Fox and Lorenza).   

Our apt does have proper sound proofing, the noise comes through the open windows.  

The apt below is sort of adjacent to ours, not directly below and when windows are open, like now in the summer, the sound can be pretty loud!

I am a very sound sleeper though and can otherwise tune it out.

My bf not so much.

I'm not sure if our current issues will be a dealbreaker, they very well may be. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by poppyfields

[introverted1]

11 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Our apt does have proper sound proofing, the noise comes through the open windows.  

Gotcha. That makes sense...  and doesn't seem to have a ready remedy. 

 

Quote

I'm not sure if our current issues will be a dealbreaker, they very well may be. 
 

I'm sorry to hear this, poppy.

[ShyViolet]

I think you are 100% right on this one, not your bf.  You should always do the right thing and follow the rules, even if your neighbors don't always.  It would be wrong to make a very loud noise that would disturb your neighbors at 5am.  The fact that they sometimes have a noise problem doesn't make it ok for you to do the same thing.  If you're doing the same thing, then you'll really take away all your credibility if you do choose to complain about their noise.

[Alvi]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

For context, our relationship is under pressure right now as he wants to get married and I'm hesitant (long story).

Could that be why he became so annoyed with me??  Displaced anger or something?

Yes, it is a displaced anger. Look, it has nothing to do with your neighbors, windows, blender, noises or you being too considerate. Deep down he feels angry at you  so he strikes out. If he wants to marry you and you say no or are too hesitant, I would imagine he feels like are rejecting him. It is probably feels like a huge blow to him, no matter what your reasonings are here. You might be entirely right in your reasonings but he also has the right to feels hurt and upset. He should not be lashing out at you for sure. Try talking to him about how he feels deep down and maybe try counselling. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Alvi

[Acacia98]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Hey guys, need your opinions.  My boyfriend and I had a bit of an argument this morning, or more like a disagreement.  No it was an argument! 

We live in a condo complex on the top floor and have neighbors below us.  They often play music REALLY loud, we can even hear their TV sometimes, late at night/early morning when trying to sleep.

I think it's super inconsiderate but I suppose that's life living in such a complex.  But it annoys my bf, he has talked to them, but it still continues. 

Now, this is where I need your opinion. 

Despite my inconsiderate neighbors, I'm still very considerate of them.  Not patting myself on the back or anything, it's just how I was raised. 

So, this morning, as I do every morning, I made myself a b'fast shake using our very LOUD blender, it was 5:00 a.m.

So as to not wake our neighbors (blender is that loud, it's one of those high-powered Vitamix thingees), I shut all the windows.

Which for some reason today, really annoyed my boyfriend!!  He asked me why, in a very annoyed way, and I told him I didn't want to wake the downstairs neighbors! 

And well he kind of went off on me!  Reminding me how LOUD they are, that they're obviously not considerate of us so why should I go out of my way to be considerate of them? 

He went on to say (annoyed) who the hell cares if the blender wakes them up, do they care that their damn tele wakes us up??!!

In a way he was right but I dunno, I still felt that I should be considerate of them, was I wrong?  

I am now feeling like some sort of spineless pansy thinking - am I "too" considerate of people?  Too nice, too thoughtful when I don't get that back in return? 

What do y'all think?

For context, our relationship is under pressure right now as he wants to get married and I'm hesitant (long story).

Could that be why he became so annoyed with me??  Displaced anger or something?

Need help deciphering and navigating this, thanks!!  

 

You shouldn't change a thing about who you are. It's admirable that you are considerate of your neighbors regardless of what they're doing.

At the same time, if your boyfriend decided to blend something at 5 am with the windows wide open, I wouldn't stop him. 😆 Sometimes, people only get the message when they get a dose of their own medicine.

I don't think either of you is wrong for your approach to this issue. But I think your boyfriend is wrong for trying to pressure you to be like him.

It's possible that his anger towards you was displaced as you say. I do hope you guys are able to figure out what's best for y'all. Good luck.

[Ruby Slippers]

I'm the same way, but I definitely understand his anger and frustration about their rudeness.

This problem definitely goes beyond shared-wall living arrangements.

I have a neighbor who has 3 dogs she keeps in the backyard permanently, like lawn furniture. They're neglected and bored, so they bark all the time at any little leaf fluttering by and she does nothing to train them or give them healthy stimulation. The moment I step in my backyard, they go wild barking, and she never does anything to shut them up. Anytime I've politely asked her to get the noise under control, she responds with hostility.

Believe me, I've thought about giving her a taste of her own medicine. But I'm not going to lower myself to her level. I even tried giving her and her kids some homemade cookies, hoping that might soften her up so she'd be more considerate. It didn't seem to have any effect. 

I had sound reduction windows installed in my bedroom, and those completely eliminate the noise in the bedroom. When I want to enjoy my backyard, I go prepared with my phone and headphones so I can listen to music instead of the dogs. I can be out there for half an hour with my music, and they're barking the whole time. As long as I can't hear it, not my problem.

I was reading something the other day that said be very careful about interacting with these people, since people who have no qualms about disturbing other people like this are almost always mentally ill, and it certainly seems to be true in her case. These people are self-centered and struggle to get along with people on many levels, since they only think about themselves.

So the best you can do is avoid or ignore as much as possible.

[mark clemson]

Heh, not to get all evil on you, but if you're older (40+) there are high-pitched sound frequencies you cannot hear. Some are among those incredibly grating "nails on chalkboard" ranges.

While this is NOT a recommendation, it is possible to, e.g. get a computer program that emits those frequencies, hook it up e.g. to a TV or sound system, crank up the volume and...

You would sleep soundly at 7 am since you literally are unable to hear the incredibly annoying high pitched sound. Neighbors perhaps not so much.

Again this is NOT a suggestion that you actually do this.

Also it probably goes without saying but also DON'T do this to dogs as that would be tantamount to animal cruelty. Younger people, such as cop called to hear a noise complaint, CAN hear the noise and most places have laws against animal cruelty with some pretty severe penalties. Not to mention your personal ethics. So NOT doing (at all) IS my recommendation. Just a thought exercise. Science, baby. 🙂

Edited September 25, 2020 by mark clemson

[Watercolors]

49 minutes ago, Alvi said:

Yes, it is a displaced anger. Look, it has nothing to do with your neighbors, windows, blender, noises or you being too considerate. Deep down he feels angry at you  so he strikes out. If he wants to marry you and you say no or are too hesitant, I would imagine he feels like are rejecting him. It is probably feels like a huge blow to him, no matter what your reasonings are here. You might be entirely right in your reasonings but he also has the right to feels hurt and upset. He should not be lashing out at you for sure. Try talking to him about how he feels deep down and maybe try counselling. 

This was my immediate thought too, Alvi: Poppy's boyfriend is displacing his anger about her hesitancy to marry him, on their paper-thin wall condo and her using her Vitamix at 5 a.m.

I would just directly address your hesitancy issue about marriage with your boyfriend in a different way. Since, previous discussions with your boyfriend haven't resolved his fear of you rejecting him and not wanting to marry him. Do you want to stay in this r/s? Do you want to marry him? If you don't, now is the time to break up with him. Otherwise, why would you stay in a r/s that is never going to go anywhere that either partner wants it to? It would be unfair for you to stay with your boyfriend if you don't want to marry him and he wants to marry you. But you know that already.

This fight isn't about the condo and your neighbors or your using the blender at 5 a.m. It's about your relationship.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Watercolors

[FMW]

Your boyfriend may just be more sensitive to sounds than you are and this may have just been slowly eating at him.  I'm sensitive to noise and the disturbance it creates in my head builds up and makes me feel like screaming at times, so I get it.  I don't think it's odd that he would have a moment of blowing up about your going out of your way to be considerate of them in the circumstances.  It doesn't have to mean anything other than the noise is driving him nuts and he's lost all patience with it.

I wouldn't attribute things to the marriage issue unless that just becomes really clearly the reason.  Believe him when he expresses frustration over other issues even if they don't seem to be a big deal to you.  

[poppyfields]

4 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Heh, not to get all evil on you, but if you're older (40+) there are high-pitched sound frequencies you cannot hear. Some are among those incredibly grating "nails on chalkboard" ranges.

While this is NOT a recommendation, it is possible to, e.g. get a computer program that emits those frequencies, hook it up e.g. to a TV or sound system, crank up the volume and...

You would sleep soundly at 7 am since you literally are unable to hear the incredibly annoying high pitched sound. Neighbors perhaps not so much.

Again this is NOT a suggestion that you actually do this.

Also it probably goes without saying but also DON'T do this to dogs as that would be tantamount to animal cruelty. Younger people, such as cop called to hear a noise complaint, CAN hear the noise and most places have laws against animal cruelty with some pretty severe penalties. Not to mention your personal ethics. So NOT doing (at all) IS my recommendation. Just a thought exercise. Science, baby. 🙂

Lol, first off I'm not 40+ (yet) and second, unless I misread your post, I am not the one bothered by the noise, my bf is.  🤣

Not sure he would want to go to all the trouble of what you suggested, he'd just prefer my neighbors NOT be rude and more considerate.  👎

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

Five is pretty early and a blender sound is sudden and jarring. It's not inconsiderate to keep that noise down. I think you realize there's more to this. 

[poppyfields]

6 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

This was my immediate thought too, Alvi: Poppy's boyfriend is displacing his anger about her hesitancy to marry him, on their paper-thin wall condo and her using her Vitamix at 5 a.m.

I would just directly address your hesitancy issue about marriage with your boyfriend in a different way. Since, previous discussions with your boyfriend haven't resolved his fear of you rejecting him and not wanting to marry him. Do you want to stay in this r/s? Do you want to marry him? If you don't, now is the time to break up with him. Otherwise, why would you stay in a r/s that is never going to go anywhere that either partner wants it to? It would be unfair for you to stay with your boyfriend if you don't want to marry him and he wants to marry you. But you know that already.

This fight isn't about the condo and your neighbors or your using the blender at 5 a.m. It's about your relationship.

Thanks WC, I don't know if it's actually displaced anger but possible.  He's a pretty reasonable man and has always understood my "issues" so I doubt he's taking it personally that I'm not wanting marriage.  

My fear of marriage runs pretty deep, probably related to my parents horrendous marriage and witnessing that growing up (again long story there). 

I honestly think he was annoyed at me and wished I were more "vengeful" like him and that my "niceness" gets on his nerves sometimes.  

There were times when he would get SO angry, it could be anything really, something silly imo, and I'd be calm like it didnt bother me and he'd say to me "Aren't you MAD??!!  Don't you ever get mad, you shouid be furious!!"

I don't know, his getting mad at stupid shyt never bothered me till today when he went off on me.

It didn't feel good, and yeah it probably goes deeper than this issue.  Maybe I will suggest couples counseling or maybe he needs anger management!  

Oh and to clarify, not sure where you got our walls are paper thin, our condo is very well insulated, the noise comes through the open windows. 

[poppyfields]

Guys, just want to say thanks for not making me feel like a total sap for not being an angry b*tch like my bf apparently wants me to be.  🙄

Thinking back to when we first met and the first 1-2 years, he loved my niceness, he'd always say I have the kindest heart, he was actually in awe! 

Not saying that to make myself out to be some saint or anything but I do always try to be kind to everyone and he admired that.

And I admired his ability to not take shyt from people, and also his ability to show anger cause it's something I lack. 

Now it's all changed and it appears what he once admired now bugs him.

It's all f*cked, sometimes I think I'm not meant to be in a long term relationship at all. 

Anyway thanks, you guys the best. 😂

[poppyfields]

59 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

This was my immediate thought too, Alvi: Poppy's boyfriend is displacing his anger about her hesitancy to marry him, on their paper-thin wall condo and her using her Vitamix at 5 a.m.

WC, he wasn't angry at me for using the blender at 5:00 am, we were both up, went for a run and I made the shake for both of us. 

He got angry because I closed the windows to not wake our neighbors which pissed him off as they are LOUD AF at all hours of the night and never ever as considerate of us.  

Just thought I'd clarify that. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by poppyfields

[elaine567]

40 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

He's a pretty reasonable man and has always understood my "issues" so I doubt he's taking it personally that I'm not wanting marriage.  

Seems to me many people get into relationships with people who do not share their views or who are not on the same page because deep down they KNOW the other will at some point change their minds.
Your bf accepted your issues but no doubt thought that if he asked you to marry him you would ditch all your "issues" and be happy to do so.
Now he knows you won't and that is disappointing and frustrating.
Not only has he found out love does not conquer all but now he is stuck in a relationship that realistically is going nowhere he wants to go.
Not a great place to be.

[Watercolors]

10 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

WC, he wasn't angry at me for using the blender at 5:00 am, we were both up, went for a run and I made the shake for both of us. 

He got angry because I closed the windows to not wake our neighbors which pissed him off as they are LOUD AF at all hours of the night and never ever as considerate of us.  

Just thought I'd clarify that. 

Oh no I understood. I still agree with the other poster that your boyfriend's anger at your for closing the windows, was actually his misguided anger about your hesitancy to commit to him full on, with marriage in the future. Guys in general won't acknowledge that misguided emotion, unless they're totally in tune with themselves spiritually and mature enough to catch themselves doing it.

I think your boyfriend was not mad at you for closing the windows. I think he used that as an excuse to vent his frustration over your lack of commitment and he won't either admit it because he thinks if he does, that will spook you to leave him, or you will view him as a immature and trying to accuse you of being a bad girlfriend.

[smackie9]

He's being crabby about it because your actions are supporting these people. He's feeling a little disrespected that you are not sharing his opinion that if what's good for the goose......

I see his frustration, he feels you two owe these people nothing. It's concerning that these people are now causing a riff between you two.

Have you guys called the landlord about this? There are noise by-laws to consider where you can notify the police.

Edited September 25, 2020 by smackie9

[poppyfields]

34 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

He's being crabby about it because your actions are supporting these people. He's feeling a little disrespected that you are not sharing his opinion that if what's good for the goose......

I see his frustration, he feels you two owe these people nothing. It's concerning that these people are now causing a riff between you two.

Have you guys called the landlord about this? There are noise by-laws to consider where you can notify the police.

Yeah that's what I think too!  That was the sense I got, that he felt I wasn't on "his" side, I did not have his back, thank you smackie! 

I think you nailed it although not ruling the displaced anger theory out.

Maybe it's a little of both.  He is pretty sensitive and he always has my back, and I truly believe by my closing the windows and being considerate to our neighbors when they are not to us (and causes him to lose sleep), he felt I wasn't on "his" side supporting him.

I think it's true sometimes when your partner feels hurt, they will get angry.  

Me? I go quiet and withdraw which probably isn't healthy either!  

Oh I don't know, just tossing stuff out.  I will ask him about it tonight.

Smackie, we don't have a landlord, my bf owns it.  HE is essentially the landlord, there is a condo association but they don't get involved in neighbor disputes. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by poppyfields

[Weezy1973]

Generally, the only way to be too considerate is if it crosses your personal boundaries. Rising above is pretty much always the best recourse. If you don’t you may get the immediate “satisfaction” of giving your neighbors a taste of their own medicine, but you won’t feel good about yourself in the long run. Taking the high road develops character.

[Watercolors]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

Smackie, we don't have a landlord, my bf owns it.  HE is essentially the landlord, there is a condo association but they don't get involved in neighbor disputes. 

Wait, but noise disruption is in every lease and mortgage, as a "clause." Since your boyfriend owns that building of condos, its his responsibility to uphold and enforce the mortgage/lease clause of the noise ordinance. Since your neighbors have constantly broke the noise clause, someone - your boyfriend who is the owner, or the condo co-op board - has to enforce the noise clause. If they don't, then the next step is to file a police report. Doesn't your condo building have publicly posted noise hours? My apt bldg has a public sign in the front hall and the basement, warning all tenants that the quiet hours are from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. every day. If you make noise during those hours, well, you get a warning from the bldg manager first. Then, the leasing company gets involved and you can get evicted if you have multiple noise complaints against you. That's my bldg's policy.

Your boyfriend needs to enforce the noise clause, or notify the co-op board to do that. This isn't a neighbor issue. It's a city ordinance issue. Neighbors who don't follow city ordinances, get fined by the city and have to pay those fines. Have your boyfriend contact his county office. You can't own a condo bldg and do nothing to keep the peace. Someone has to enforce the rules. If your boyfriend owns that building, then its his legal responsibility to enforce the quiet hours there. Yelling at you to close the windows, is either him misguiding his anger about your relationship, or like some others have said, he wants you to be on his side about the noise issue, and since you do your own thing, that could possibly bother him.

When you talk to him tonight about it, mention that he has to step up as the legal owner of the condo building. It's really his job. Otherwise, who is running things there?

[poppyfields]

33 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

Wait, but noise disruption is in every lease and mortgage, as a "clause." Since your boyfriend owns that building of condos, its his responsibility to uphold and enforce the mortgage/lease clause of the noise ordinance. Since your neighbors have constantly broke the noise clause, someone - your boyfriend who is the owner, or the condo co-op board - has to enforce the noise clause. If they don't, then the next step is to file a police report. Doesn't your condo building have publicly posted noise hours? My apt bldg has a public sign in the front hall and the basement, warning all tenants that the quiet hours are from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. every day. If you make noise during those hours, well, you get a warning from the bldg manager first. Then, the leasing company gets involved and you can get evicted if you have multiple noise complaints against you. That's my bldg's policy.

Your boyfriend needs to enforce the noise clause, or notify the co-op board to do that. This isn't a neighbor issue. It's a city ordinance issue. Neighbors who don't follow city ordinances, get fined by the city and have to pay those fines. Have your boyfriend contact his county office. You can't own a condo bldg and do nothing to keep the peace. Someone has to enforce the rules. If your boyfriend owns that building, then its his legal responsibility to enforce the quiet hours there. Yelling at you to close the windows, is either him misguiding his anger about your relationship, or like some others have said, he wants you to be on his side about the noise issue, and since you do your own thing, that could possibly bother him.

When you talk to him tonight about it, mention that he has to step up as the legal owner of the condo building. It's really his job. Otherwise, who is running things there?

No he does not own the building, all the condominiums are privately owned.  Including his.  Our neighbors own their condo.

It is not a co-op.

Apologies if I did not articulate that correctly.

Edited September 25, 2020 by poppyfields