elisecoen Posted September 24, 2020 Posted September 24, 2020 The terms ‘attractive’ and ‘unattractive’ are irrelevant ! That’s other peoples opinions. The beauty industry has created a ‘stereotype’ that people are expected to look like. Unfortunately, unless blessed with naturally perfect features - or rich enough to afford plastic surgery - us ‘ordinary’ people are stuck with how we look. NO-ONE else has any right to tell a person how they should look !
Wiseman2 Posted September 24, 2020 Posted September 24, 2020 Quasimodo calls for water. ,Esmeralda, seeing his thirst, approaches and offers him a drink of water. It saves him, and she captures his heart.
Trail Blazer Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, elisecoen said: The terms ‘attractive’ and ‘unattractive’ are irrelevant ! That’s other peoples opinions. The beauty industry has created a ‘stereotype’ that people are expected to look like. Unfortunately, unless blessed with naturally perfect features - or rich enough to afford plastic surgery - us ‘ordinary’ people are stuck with how we look. NO-ONE else has any right to tell a person how they should look ! Er, what!? Unless you live in a bubble where in the context of dating, attraction means nothing and nor do the opinions of others, then you are categorically incorrect. Who is telling whom how they should look? Edited September 25, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Removed personal attack. 1
Trail Blazer Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 13 hours ago, Versacehottie said: Good points about how the topics in this forum break down lol. I don't think all of those subjects have to do with looks per se but they do have to do with overall attraction. Regarding looks, "they" have done studies where they rank attractiveness on a scale of 1-10 (typical with 10 being the most attractive) and found that the most satisfied couples are quite similar on an attractiveness scale. Such as 8 goes with 8, let's say. They said in those studies that I think if it was more than 2 points off it wasn't a lasting or satisfying one really. So basically you should try to be with someone about your level of attractiveness. That said, as you can imagine, the one exception was a big "trade", pretty much being that very wealthy guys could get very gorgeous women in a "satisfying" match where the looks scale didn't match up. Like he might be a troll at a 1 or 2 but rich and she might be a 10 and everyone's fine. That said, I think in general women are typically better looking and take better care of themselves so they usually are the more attractive ones in the relationship whereas a guy brings the "something else". I think a lot of the problem with relationships lasting with attractiveness continuing is that one or the other person lets themselves go. You hear it all the time that husbands will be upset that their wives have let themselves go or baby weight etc.---if you partner up primarily because of looks, will you be able to weather these times? Probably not. IMO, use looks as a basis for initial attraction (close to equal on the 1-10 scale) and then create a bond that is beyond looks. The important thing is to find the right person and that is usually far different than what is on outside--though both play a role and are important. I think for your situation, if you are looking at it being such a compromised thing, you probably have not encountered the right person IMO. Good luck Perhaps. The beauty/cosmetic industry has been geared almost solely towards females, up until recent times. With all of the products available to women, I think there's more scope for a woman to look attractive physically than there is for a man. My girlfriend is 37 and she's got natural beauty. However, her cosmetic products enable her to enhance that beauty, so when she "does herself up" she's truly stunnjng (in my opinion). There's not a lot I can do, short of using a daily skin moisturizer for men, to make myself look a whole lot more handsome than I would look on any other day. I always keep myself well groomed, so really, if we were to say, go out for a nice dinner, it's merely just nice clothes which set me apart from any other day. When my girlfriend dolls herself up, it's easy to get a reaction and say, "oh wow, you look gorgeous." Short of me wearing a tuxedo, I guess I look similar in most settings. If my girlfriend wears no make-up, has her hair in a bun and wears normal clothes, I'd say that we look about on-par in the looks dept., so long as I keep myself well-groomed and reasomably dressed. As soon as she puts in effort, I'm punchin' above my weight... Thankfully my girlfriend doesn't want kids and very much enjoys eating a healthy, balanced diet and partaking in regular exercise. We both train together and have a similar taste for food, so it's highly doubtful that either one of us wil let ourselves go. We do it for ourselves and each other.
basil67 Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 11 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said: This is a difficult question because ... well attraction isn't just in looks. It's also energy, voice, humor, the way a person walks, the way they tell a story, the way they smile and think, their eyes and on and on. Let's say you think you're better looking than Woman X. And let's say a unbiased panel of raters agree with you. Well, here's the problem. Woman X might have charisma and fun energy that dwarfs any charisma and energy you have. Because of the way you might feel with Woman X (assuming you're drawn to her charisma) she'll likely become prettier in your eyes. Now here's the kicker. Let's create a panel of raters who know both you and Woman X. This panel--unlike the previous panel--knows about Woman X's energy and charisma. They might easily conclude that Woman X is overall more attractive, more of a "catch" than you are. The bottom line is that you want to find someone you are thrilled to be with who is also thrilled to be with you. That's it! If you feel like you're compromising, move on. So much this. A man or woman can be pretty but if they are dull or stupid, their dating value is only good for the short term. After that, you need to duct tape their mouths shut when you hook up. As a woman who's physical attraction stems from emotional/intellectual attraction, this whole discussion is something I can't comprehend. 1
Author JasonLevi Posted September 25, 2020 Author Posted September 25, 2020 Response to other people’s comments: “As a woman who's physical attraction stems from emotional/intellectual attraction, this whole discussion is something I can't comprehend.” Attraction may be a tricky subject, but I believe looks play a major role in most dating. I also don’t believe the sexes differ. Tons of research regarding online and speed dating where a woman’s choice could be assessed in real time (rather than based on her filling in a survey) found that women are just as concerned about looks as men. You may be an exception, but I think most people downplay the importance of looks to them. “most couples match up in terms of physical attractiveness” And yet many more people don’t match up. The world is not ordered so that there is a clear ranking of beauty and that these people match up according to their rank. So many people are looking for instant attraction/chemistry/spark and believe that it is the defining feature of a relationship. I think in our era of dating, people have prioritised looks and are constantly seeking people that are equal or better looking than themselves regardless of the price e.g. remaining single for years (even decades), or finding someone incompatible but pretty. “It sounds like you are simply not ready to date. If you were you wouldn't be pondering who has the upper hand based on some silly "Hot Or Not" criteria.” “If you feel like you're compromising, move on.” It’s not about upper hand. As I said earlier, I’m not sure a solid relationship needs equal physical attraction from both sides. Compromise need not be so bad. What matters is what we compromise on. Some people think compromising on looks is a death knell for a relationship. Surely compromising on patience and emotional intelligence would be worse.
Azincourt Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) On 9/24/2020 at 5:37 AM, Ruby Slippers said: Grandmas always said be prettier than the man you marry, cuz then he'll treat you better. Generally it's true. Not in all cases, but in general. I've never cared that much about looks. I like strong, competent men, and they usually appear more attractive no matter what they look like on the surface. Grandmas are not wrong. When I'm dating a woman or a man who matches my level of physical appearance, I don't really put much of myself into the relationship. It's something convenient, someone to have sex with and pass the time. I was dating this woman back in december. Tall, slim, pretty, great teeth etc etc, and as soon as she developed depression because she's the kind of person who needs to be the best at what she does, and she wasn't getting the grades she was looking for, mental problems began to arise. And as soon as her mental problems began to develop, my legs made a run for it and I never contacted her again. But when I'm dating my type? Miss Turkey 2014, or Miss Pakistan 2016 for reference. Man, the only reason I'm not offering her the Palace of Alhambra is because it's not mine to give. I'll even bother meeting her parents and her friends and brothers and sisters, something I very rarely do with most of the people I date, because I don't want to deal with someone else's problems, and there's nothing more problematic than a family. Quote So much this. A man or woman can be pretty but if they are dull or stupid, their dating value is only good for the short term. After that, you need to duct tape their mouths shut when you hook up. Yes, but something that I've always found odd about average-looking people is how many of them assume a beautiful person is automatically dull or stupid, when research shows that it's actually the opposite. There's a 6 feet tall 23 year old natural blonde at around 135 to 140lbs here who graduated with top marks from her health-related bachelors, graduated with the best score out of her class at her masters, and now she's working on her PhD, while also working as a fashion model. She's amazing, bro. Any guy who is lucky enough to get her pregnant is going to have beautiful sons. Sadly, she's dating a man who takes home about 8 million euros a year after taxes, so I'm all outta luck. Quote As a woman who's physical attraction stems from emotional/intellectual attraction, this whole discussion is something I can't comprehend. Quote demisexual (sexually attracted to someone based on a strong emotional connection) sapiosexual (sexually attracted to intelligence) Quote Sapiosexuals: are some people really only sexually attracted to intelligence? That word is “sapiosexuality.” As defined by Urban Dictionary, a sapiosexual person is someone who finds intelligence and the human mind to be the most sexually attractive feature for a potential sexual relationship. Quote Attraction may be a tricky subject, but I believe looks play a major role in most dating. I also don’t believe the sexes differ. Tons of research regarding online and speed dating where a woman’s choice could be assessed in real time (rather than based on her filling in a survey) found that women are just as concerned about looks as men. You may be an exception, but I think most people downplay the importance of looks to them. It really does depend on the woman's age and what she's looking for at that time in her life, where it concerns dating men. Is she 18-22 and a college student/recently graduated from college and wants to visit an exotic foreign nation-state and enjoy her time there? Then she's going to hook-up with the locals who are physically attractive while her boyfriend remains at home unaware of what's going on. Is she 28-35 and looking to settle down and get married and start a family? A man's good-looks and muscularity is now a bonus, not a requirement. College education, his own house - or the money to put down for the downpayment on a house - emotional stability, a good job, savings in the bank, and the desire to settle down with her and to spend his money on her and on her kids? Then she's gonna pick that guy for her starter marriage. Edited September 25, 2020 by Azincourt
Versacehottie Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 11 hours ago, Trail Blazer said: Perhaps. The beauty/cosmetic industry has been geared almost solely towards females, up until recent times. With all of the products available to women, I think there's more scope for a woman to look attractive physically than there is for a man. My girlfriend is 37 and she's got natural beauty. However, her cosmetic products enable her to enhance that beauty, so when she "does herself up" she's truly stunnjng (in my opinion). There's not a lot I can do, short of using a daily skin moisturizer for men, to make myself look a whole lot more handsome than I would look on any other day. I always keep myself well groomed, so really, if we were to say, go out for a nice dinner, it's merely just nice clothes which set me apart from any other day. When my girlfriend dolls herself up, it's easy to get a reaction and say, "oh wow, you look gorgeous." Short of me wearing a tuxedo, I guess I look similar in most settings. If my girlfriend wears no make-up, has her hair in a bun and wears normal clothes, I'd say that we look about on-par in the looks dept., so long as I keep myself well-groomed and reasomably dressed. As soon as she puts in effort, I'm punchin' above my weight... Thankfully my girlfriend doesn't want kids and very much enjoys eating a healthy, balanced diet and partaking in regular exercise. We both train together and have a similar taste for food, so it's highly doubtful that either one of us wil let ourselves go. We do it for ourselves and each other. Totally agree. Women have more of an option to doll themselves up. And I have seen not very pretty women be able to do a snow job on a guy as far as attractiveness with a thin body and some hair dye. Sounds like you are on the right track with the no makeup look and you are about equal attractiveness. I think it's pretty cool when a guy thinks a girl he's dating is just as pretty without all the makeup and dressed down. Cool guys generally do, even if they appreciate the other, and were initially attracted to the bombshell look from the same girl.
Lotsgoingon Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 Trail Blazer,, men can and do "doll themselves up." You can too if you want. A friend of mine worked in politics with around high-ranking male politicians, men who appeared before people and before the camera frequently. Well, it so happens that I attended a talk by a prominent male politician that my buddy knew. I'd seen this guy on tv many times. In person, the politician looked fabulous--like strikingly better than 90 percent of the men his age. And I'm talking about his face--he was standing behind a podium so I wasn't admiring his suit. I get home and call up my political buddy and I mention that this politician looked really good. That's when my buddy said it wasn't unusual for prominent politicians--yes male politicians--to wear a thin layer of makeup for public appearances. Makeup?! I was surprised ... for a second ... Then, I thought of course! I have another friend who works in the news media, and she had made a lot of appearances on television. She talked all the time about the makeup that tv people require you to wear (if they want you to look decent) before you go on camera--men and women. You can google "makeup" and male actors and you'll see that many male celebrities--just like the famous politician I saw--wear makeup. They wear makeup during filming and in person sometimes. And here the goal for men is sorta the same as with women. The best makeup job, the joke goes, is one that makes you look like you're not wearing makeup. You just look great. Another way men doll themselves up is with good haircuts. Stylish gets go to stylish barbers and they go frequently--because they know the exact hair level and cut that makes them look their best. I stumbled into dolling myself up with acne facial wash. As a teenager, I had a horrible case of teenage acne. Well a few years back, I noticed my facie just didn't look smooth. I decided to try out some of those old acne cleansers I used as a teenager. OMG, I have had friends who noticed the difference right away. "Your skin looks great." I use acne wash to this day. The most obvious way men also doll themselves up with clothes. And I don't just men "suits" or tuxedos. Talk to any stylish guy ... and you'll learn that there are really two major determinants to looking good in clothes. Yes, the material matters, but not as much as you think. First, you have to wear colors that work with your skin complexion. Colors affect each other. So a red shirt on one guy can look great against his skin ... and look terrible on a guy with a different complexion. We actually don't view the person's clothes in isolation. We're looking at the entire person, their skin, their hair, their shoes and the clothes. Those all work together when you're looking good. This is why you can sometimes see that somebody is wearing a really nice dress or shirt and yet ... something doesn't quite seem right. It's because the color is not complementing the person's complexion. Also matching shirt color and pant color is huge. Young women are notorious for trying on outfits for a half an hour before deciding what to wear. That's because they stand and twirl in front of the mirror looking to see what combination really pops! Stylish guys do the same! And then the simplest way guys can doll themselves up--and rich guys know this of course--is to get the fit right on your clothes. The difference between a good fit and a tailored fabulous fit (which occasionally you can stumble on without tailoring) is staggering. I'm stumbled into tailoring completely by accident when I needed a suit for a job interview (the old days) and the store tailoring wouldn't be ready in time for the interview. I found a local guy who could work fast. I was stunned by the result. This guy's tailoring made my body look way better than it really looks! Dude, you can absolutely doll yourself up, as many men do. I agree that in our society, women have a lot more practice with this. That's different than saying a man can't fix themselves up or don't fix themselves up. I was at a Costco not long ago getting eyeglasses. Saw this middle-aged guy trying on eyeglasses. Costco's not the most stylish places for glasses but they have a great optical department. Not only was this guy's wife weighing on his glasses as he tried on multiple pairs ... but then I noticed, he was facetiming his son and his son's fiance. Mr. Middle-Aged Regular Guy With Wife was picking out eyeglasses that would look good for his son's wedding pictures! Not for the wedding, the guy said. But for the wedding pictures! Doll away Trail Blazer! 1
Datergirl Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 I find this topic quite funny, I mean, both partners may think they are the more/least attractive...it's not like you're going to have a discussion on who is the most/least hot I would assume ny my partner finds me attractive, otherwise why would they be with me 2
princessaurora Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 I was always attracted to guys on the same level as me, and that includes my husband, but he has a unique personality many people find strange and it's only gotten stranger over the years. So when people see me they often tease him about how they can't believe he has such a beautiful wife, and then they ask me " how do you put up with him? " But personality aside I feel we're on similar levels. I was instantly attracted to him and thought about kissing him from the get go. That's how I would gauge if I wanted to go out on date with a guy or not. If I can't picture myself kissing you, I'm not wasting my time or yours. I don't believe attraction can grow if there's none there from the beginning. There has to be at least a seed budding or it's not happening for me. That's why it blows my mind when these playboy models date rich old or unattractive men. I couldn't do it. They're just icky to me and no amount of money would ever get me past that. I'd rather not sail around the world than sail around the world with an ugly or wrinkly old man. I need an attractive face to look at or it's not worth it.
CaliforniaGirl Posted September 27, 2020 Posted September 27, 2020 On 9/24/2020 at 7:05 PM, Trail Blazer said: Perhaps. The beauty/cosmetic industry has been geared almost solely towards females, up until recent times. With all of the products available to women, I think there's more scope for a woman to look attractive physically than there is for a man. My girlfriend is 37 and she's got natural beauty. However, her cosmetic products enable her to enhance that beauty, so when she "does herself up" she's truly stunnjng (in my opinion). There's not a lot I can do, short of using a daily skin moisturizer for men, to make myself look a whole lot more handsome than I would look on any other day. I always keep myself well groomed, so really, if we were to say, go out for a nice dinner, it's merely just nice clothes which set me apart from any other day. When my girlfriend dolls herself up, it's easy to get a reaction and say, "oh wow, you look gorgeous." Short of me wearing a tuxedo, I guess I look similar in most settings. If my girlfriend wears no make-up, has her hair in a bun and wears normal clothes, I'd say that we look about on-par in the looks dept., so long as I keep myself well-groomed and reasomably dressed. As soon as she puts in effort, I'm punchin' above my weight... Thankfully my girlfriend doesn't want kids and very much enjoys eating a healthy, balanced diet and partaking in regular exercise. We both train together and have a similar taste for food, so it's highly doubtful that either one of us wil let ourselves go. We do it for ourselves and each other. Men have been told how to look since forever.
Trail Blazer Posted September 27, 2020 Posted September 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said: Men have been told how to look since forever. Care to elaborate?
CaliforniaGirl Posted September 27, 2020 Posted September 27, 2020 There are some problems with "more/less attractive" beyond the charisma factor. People tend to rate themselves more attractive than others rate them, for example (when rating happens - I'm studies, I mean). Interestingly, though, the majority tend to more or less wind up with partners who, according to impartial observers, "rate" about the same. I can't even remember why I ever looked this stuff up but it was probably because of a relationship forum. Until you get to extremes, like the stereotypical rich troglodyte scoring a hot child because money, the average couple is, well, the average couple. We're beautiful to eachother. 1
CaliforniaGirl Posted September 27, 2020 Posted September 27, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said: Care to elaborate? It's easy. Even prehistoric paintings show there was obviously an "ideal male" in any given tribe (which varied from locale to locale, time period to time period). From recorded history we initially see heavy use of makeup by men, height being accentuated to connote the ideal (by high shoes, elevation on a throne, tall headdress and more), eyes being accentuated, and hair being fussed with, and oh, of course the right clothes. Even the right facial coloring, either makeup or in cultures where men didn't wear makeup, more time in the sun when a tan was cool, time under a tent or umbrella when paleness was the thing. And you see every other guy in the society trying to follow suit.I Men literally wore tights when society told them to wear tights. they painted on moles when society told them to paint on moles. In the 70s guys got game because the hot guy had to have a tan. In the 90s It was cool to look Seattle depressed so a lot of guys ran in doors and now they're half in, half out. These are generalizations but then again so are talking about singular trends for women. Because any of the above were in fact followed by literally millions (except ancient history - fewer just because of fewer people), clearly, we see men as well as women following what they feel they should follow as far as looks. It goes all the line through history and, obviously, is present today and also obviously, follows what the culture dictates is cool and manly and attractive. Not all men follow every trend. Neither do women. But are we all pressured by example? Well, or course we are. Edited September 27, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl 1
Trail Blazer Posted September 27, 2020 Posted September 27, 2020 17 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said: It's easy. Even prehistoric paintings show there was obviously an "ideal male" in any given tribe (which varied from locale to locale, time period to time period). From recorded history we initially see heavy use of makeup by men, height being accentuated to connote the ideal (by high shoes, elevation on a throne, tall headdress and more), eyes being accentuated, and hair being fussed with, and oh, of course the right clothes. Even the right facial coloring, either makeup or in cultures where men didn't wear makeup, more time in the sun when a tan was cool, time under a tent or umbrella when paleness was the thing. And you see every other guy in the society trying to follow suit.I Men literally wore tights when society told them to wear tights. they painted on moles when society told them complaining moles. In the 70s guys got game because the hot guy had to have a tan. In the 90s It was cool to look Seattle depressed so a lot of guys ran in doors and now they're half in, half out. These are generalizations but then again so are talking about singular trends for women. Because any of the above were in fact followed by literally millions (except ancient history - fewer just because of fewer people), clearly, we see men as well as women following what they feel they should follow as far as looks. It goes all the line through history and, obviously, is present today and also obviously, follows what the culture dictates is cool and manly and attractive. There's a difference between what men should look like and how much scope they have to change/accentuate how they look. What cave men did, or people dating back to any time in history which preceded now, is irrelevant. Men don't wear makeup unless they're on set in a studio. Compare that to almost every woman in the developed world who would own makeup. It's little wonder why women take a lot longer to get ready to go out than men.
CaliforniaGirl Posted September 27, 2020 Posted September 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said: There's a difference between what men should look like and how much scope they have to change/accentuate how they look. What cave men did, or people dating back to any time in history which preceded now, is irrelevant. Men don't wear makeup unless they're on set in a studio. Compare that to almost every woman in the developed world who would own makeup. It's little wonder why women take a lot longer to get ready to go out than men. Men absolutely attempt to physically look like the ideal and always have, accentuating height, getting a certain haircut, shaving facial hair completely or in a certain shape or not at all, buying eyeglasses that hopefully make them look good, buying eyeglasses because society has told them that is supposed to be a cool look, getting hairplugs or wearing hats or wearing the hair a certain way, wearing certain clothes, working out, tanning or not, and more. Yes, women wear makeup. I'm not sure why it's a competition but...yes. We wear makeup. It's true! Yup.
Trail Blazer Posted September 27, 2020 Posted September 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said: Men absolutely attempt to physically look like the ideal and always have, accentuating height, getting a certain haircut, shaving facial hair completely or in a certain shape or not at all, buying eyeglasses that hopefully make them look good, buying eyeglasses because society has told them that is supposed to be a cool look, getting hairplugs or wearing hats or wearing the hair a certain way, wearing certain clothes, working out, tanning or not, and more. Yes, women wear makeup. I'm not sure why it's a competition but...yes. We wear makeup. It's true! Yup. Apart from shaving facial hair, women do all of that as well. It's not a competiton at all. I'm not really sure what your point is. My point was that my girlfriend has more scope to make herself look attractive [on a dime] than I do. Makeup is the contributing factor, but so too is having long her. I can get a certain cut, but with long hair, she can wear it in so many different ways.
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