What usually happens after dating for a year?

[elaine567]

46 minutes ago, Divorcedmama said:

Maybe like others have said, and like I fear, he will break up with me once he moves out.

He may never move out.
Older guys do not  tend to move out or divorce, they make excuse after excuse and stay where they are, as they find out they have too much to lose.

[Snow_Queen]

1 hour ago, Divorcedmama said:

 I feel like a cliche. Maybe like others have said, and like I fear, he will break up with me once he moves out.

If you visit the “other man/woman” board, you will see this is a very common occurrence. This is because the newly divorced person can date freely, whereas, finding someone to date you while married is more challenging.

It has already been 1 year and he is still with his wife and not fully divorced. You’re still relatively young. You can find what you’re looking for at any age, though.

[Divorcedmama]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

What on earth made you accept that árrangement?

Well when we first started going out, I was getting out of a serious suffocating relationship and my mother had just died, and I needed something new and fun and happy. And of course I didn't think it would last this long that he would be still married...

[Watercolors]

On 9/16/2020 at 5:27 PM, Divorcedmama said:

I wasted so much of my adult life with an abusive cheating ex-husband (from age 18-34), I don't want to be alone forever. I want someone to be my partner and I want to plan a future. Other than being anxious about our future, the rest of the relationship is great, he's sweet, we have fun together, he helps me around the house, we like each other's friends, etc.

I sometimes feel like my emotions are so intense and I want someone with feelings that match mine. I love him so much, but I'm worried I'm sabotaging things with my baggage/issues. I have an anxious attachment style if that helps.

I think it's good that you at least are aware of your relationship attachment style. That is super important. But, you are ignoring it b/c anxious attachment style people create the exact kind of trap therapists warn them not to; they fall for unavailable men who have avoidant attachment styles. Your r/s is textbook. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mindful-dating/202003/why-you-might-attract-unavailable-partners

Ceglian, C. P., and S. Gardner. “Attachment Style: A Risk for Multiple Marriages?” Journal of Divorce and Remarriage 31 (1999): 125-39.

https://markmanson.net/attachment-theory

You claim that your married b/f is exactly who you want to be with. But...his behavior shows you otherwise. He is STILL married. He won't leave his wife until she gets a job (which is, as everyone's pointed out to you: an excuse on his part). Your married b/f is showing you with his behavior, that he is avoiding true emotional intimacy with you because he won't leave his wife for you. What you are doing is existing in a one-sided relationship with him. And for you to deny this, well, that's because you are struggling with.

Did you realize that avoidant attachment styles never date secure attachment styles? Why would they? That would mean that the avoidant person has to put in real effort to emotionally attach. And, so they choose anxious attachment styles, who will put in the work for the avoidant person, because they are natural caretakers and codependent personality types. 

Have you ever explored whether or not you have codependent personality traits at all? Are you a natural caretaker? In the context of this r/s with your married boyfriend, you are essentially doing all the work. Like I wrote in my previous post to you, he has his cake (his wife) and he eats it too (his affair with you). 

Anxious attachment styles tend to choose avoidant attachment styles because the avoidant personality reinforces deep insecurities that exist within the person who has an anxious attachment style. The avoidant personality sends the anxious personality mixed signals to keep them insecure and walking on eggshells, second guessing themselves, so that the avoidant personality doesn't have to answer for their lack of commitment in a direct way, that would force the anxious attachment personality to choose to stay with the avoidant personality or leave them.

Basically, the avoidant uses the mixed messages as a way to deflect and undermine the anxious attachment personality's self confidence and self-esteem about the context of their relationship. That's exactly what he has been doing to you for this past year with is hemming and hawing about why he can't move out of his home yet. He gives you convenient excuses to keep you at bay, but close enough to where when he's feeling amorous, he knows you'll let him come over so you two can have sex and "date." He isn't really committing to you in a truly loving way. He's using you for his own means right now, and it's temporary. Because he isn't even divorced yet. 

[greymatter]

Were you pulling back from him prior to starting this thread, or is that new, purely in reaction to the opinions you've received here? If you are pulling back from him purely because of this thread, I'd caution you to stop and think before you damage a relationship that you seem to value a lot. You are the best person to make a decision about whether the relationship is right for you, and that should be a decision you know in your heart and mind - not because most of the people in this thread think you'll never be happy with your BF. 

I am wondering if getting remarried was your relationship goal in your post-divorce dating journey? It you do want to be remarried, can you explain why? It is because of social pressures, or the need to formalize a relationship in order to validate you are worth marrying? You describe yourself as a nobody, which makes me wonder if you are hanging your self worth on being married again. Do you feel like a failure for being divorced?  You are not a nobody. He is not better than you just because he is well liked at the office. Also - do the two of you have shared interests and goals? What is your time together like?

I am 2.5 years into my relationship. My partner was still married and living with his ex when we started dating. I almost didn't date him due to that. But I met her several times early on after our initial dates, which made it real for me that they were over. It took them a while to figure out which of them was going to move out. First it was going to be him, because she wanted their house, but she kept changing her mind. They ended up renting an apartment to move the separation forward, and rotated in and out of the house so one of them was with the kids (and they were no longer in the same house). Their divorce went through during all of this. For all who said it's not true when someone claims they don't want to disrupt the kids' lives, that actually was true in my BF's case. As I said, they are now divorced and she is remarried and has had a baby with her new husband. 

I am also divorced after a very long marriage. It's likely my partner and I will be together in the long term (I hope), but we will not marry. There is no reason to. We do talk about living together once our kids move out. I don't know how that would work because we both own homes, but I'm not worried about that now. There is no rush. I'm extremely happy with him,  we treat each other very well, and I love that we still date each other in a way that likely wouldn't happen if we lived together. I know all too well what it's like to live with someone (I did it for 18 years) and how that can change things. I am still excited to see him every time we get together. He cooks for me all of the time and we eat by candlelight. We spend our time together talking and really being present with each other in a way that is unlikely to continue if we get to the point of moving in together. We are both very active and have shared interests like hiking and gardening. We still have a lot of sex (I am 55, he is younger), so that doesn't necessarily end like many younger people think it does. For me and for us, marriage would accomplish absolutely nothing. My close friends judged the situation at the beginning like some of the people in this thread, because he was still married. But in my case, she moved out, they figured out how to separate without moving the kids, they got divorced, and we are committed to each other.  I have more fun with him than I've ever had in my life. We've been to Europe together and hope to go again, if we can ever travel again. We just get along and it's easy with him. I hope it lasts forever but I often tell myself that if it doesn't, I've experienced real happiness with a partner, finally. 

It all comes down to what kind of person your BF is, and what you really want and need for yourself. How compatible are the two of you? If you truly trust him, then you know what to do. You give things a chance. You've only been together for a year. That really is not a long time. You have to be discerning and think for yourself here and not make major decisions based on what posters in this thread, including me, think. Do some serious self examination and evaluate who he is.

If he is trustworthy, and you can truly count on his word, and you value the relationship more than you value whatever marriage represents to you, then you don't pull back. If you have concerns, you should be communicating them to him, not pulling back to try and get him to chase you. If you are pulling back because you intend to end the relationship because it's not meeting your needs. then just end it. Don't play games. Figure out what your goals are and pursue those. What does being in a happy relationship mean to you, and is marriage a requirement for you to be happy?  If it is, I'd be super clear about that to your partner so he has the benefit of having that information. I hope this is helpful. I'm definitely not trying to be hard on you, just trying to help you sort through all of this, and also sharing a positive story that it is certainly not always the case that dating a man who is still married is never, ever going to work. It sometimes works out just fine.

Edited September 18, 2020 by greymatter

[Fletch Lives]

You are dating a married man who is cheating on his wife. You are the other woman.

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, Divorcedmama said:

Well when we first started going out, I was getting out of a serious suffocating relationship and my mother had just died, and I needed something new and fun and happy. And of course I didn't think it would last this long that he would be still married...

Unfortunately many people turn to toxic outlets as relief and escape from pain and stress .

Some people start drinking and smoking more , some people turn to gambling overeating and other compulsions.

And some have affairs or hookups, etc 

The bottom line is you need to address your losses, sadness, stressful events,etc.

This situation like the unhealthy coping styles above will exacerbate your distress in the long run. This can set up a downward spiral of running from one train wreck to the next.

The good news is you have insight and can change this trend 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Wiseman2

[kendahke]

16 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

She's also divorced, so by your logic, vows don't meant squat to her, either. I disagree with the logic. 

I didn't think I needed to extend that because I wasn't talking about already divorced people.

I was talking about people who are actively in a marriage or relationship who are stepping out on the person they are too lazy to divorce/leave.

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by kendahke

[Ruby Slippers]

17 hours ago, kendahke said:

Exactly.  I'll bet his wife thought she'd be married all her life to this guy.

What he's proving to you and with you, OP, is that he will step outside of his marriage/committed relationships.  Vows don't mean squat to him.

The bolded sentence suggested to me you were saying ending a marriage period is breaking vows - which is true for the traditional vows (till death do us part).

Anyway, regardless, she's spinning her wheels with him. 

[poppyfields]

12 hours ago, greymatter said:

Were you pulling back from him prior to starting this thread, or is that new, purely in reaction to the opinions you've received here? If you are pulling back from him purely because of this thread, I'd caution you to stop and think before you damage a relationship that you seem to value a lot. You are the best person to make a decision about whether the relationship is right for you, and that should be a decision you know in your heart and mind - not because most of the people in this thread think you'll never be happy with your BF. 

I am wondering if getting remarried was your relationship goal in your post-divorce dating journey? It you do want to be remarried, can you explain why? It is because of social pressures, or the need to formalize a relationship in order to validate you are worth marrying? You describe yourself as a nobody, which makes me wonder if you are hanging your self worth on being married again. Do you feel like a failure for being divorced?  You are not a nobody. He is not better than you just because he is well liked at the office. Also - do the two of you have shared interests and goals? What is your time together like?

I am 2.5 years into my relationship. My partner was still married and living with his ex when we started dating. I almost didn't date him due to that. But I met her several times early on after our initial dates, which made it real for me that they were over. It took them a while to figure out which of them was going to move out. First it was going to be him, because she wanted their house, but she kept changing her mind. They ended up renting an apartment to move the separation forward, and rotated in and out of the house so one of them was with the kids (and they were no longer in the same house). Their divorce went through during all of this. For all who said it's not true when someone claims they don't want to disrupt the kids' lives, that actually was true in my BF's case. As I said, they are now divorced and she is remarried and has had a baby with her new husband. 

I am also divorced after a very long marriage. It's likely my partner and I will be together in the long term (I hope), but we will not marry. There is no reason to. We do talk about living together once our kids move out. I don't know how that would work because we both own homes, but I'm not worried about that now. There is no rush. I'm extremely happy with him,  we treat each other very well, and I love that we still date each other in a way that likely wouldn't happen if we lived together. I know all too well what it's like to live with someone (I did it for 18 years) and how that can change things. I am still excited to see him every time we get together. He cooks for me all of the time and we eat by candlelight. We spend our time together talking and really being present with each other in a way that is unlikely to continue if we get to the point of moving in together. We are both very active and have shared interests like hiking and gardening. We still have a lot of sex (I am 55, he is younger), so that doesn't necessarily end like many younger people think it does. For me and for us, marriage would accomplish absolutely nothing. My close friends judged the situation at the beginning like some of the people in this thread, because he was still married. But in my case, she moved out, they figured out how to separate without moving the kids, they got divorced, and we are committed to each other.  I have more fun with him than I've ever had in my life. We've been to Europe together and hope to go again, if we can ever travel again. We just get along and it's easy with him. I hope it lasts forever but I often tell myself that if it doesn't, I've experienced real happiness with a partner, finally. 

It all comes down to what kind of person your BF is, and what you really want and need for yourself. How compatible are the two of you? If you truly trust him, then you know what to do. You give things a chance. You've only been together for a year. That really is not a long time. You have to be discerning and think for yourself here and not make major decisions based on what posters in this thread, including me, think. Do some serious self examination and evaluate who he is.

If he is trustworthy, and you can truly count on his word, and you value the relationship more than you value whatever marriage represents to you, then you don't pull back. If you have concerns, you should be communicating them to him, not pulling back to try and get him to chase you. If you are pulling back because you intend to end the relationship because it's not meeting your needs. then just end it. Don't play games. Figure out what your goals are and pursue those. What does being in a happy relationship mean to you, and is marriage a requirement for you to be happy?  If it is, I'd be super clear about that to your partner so he has the benefit of having that information. I hope this is helpful. I'm definitely not trying to be hard on you, just trying to help you sort through all of this, and also sharing a positive story that it is certainly not always the case that dating a man who is still married is never, ever going to work. It sometimes works out just fine.

greymatter, I really liked this^ post!   I say this often but relationships and life in general are never as black and white as they might appear at first blush.  

So many different colors and nuances and every couple's dynamic is different.

Like you, my dad remained with my mum for the kids.  He had a girlfriend for a year before he left, the love of his life if truth be told.

Once the divorce became final, he married her, had two more children (my step siblings) and he was the happiest he had ever been!

I am actually thankful I got to witness their relationship and subsequent marriage because witnessing him and my mom's marriage was a nightmare I wouldn't wish on anyone and I still suffer the consequences of that to this day.

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by poppyfields

[FMW]

Anything is possible, especially over a long period of time.  But the OP started this thread, before any comments were made, seeming to be unsatisfied and anxious about things.  It's fine for her to wait things out, as long she's aware that things changing anytime soon isn't likely.  If she can be happy and content with the status quo for an indefinite period of time, then great.  If not, she needs to be very clear on the reality of the situation here and now, not only looking at what might be in the future.  

[poppyfields]

15 hours ago, Watercolors said:

I think it's good that you at least are aware of your relationship attachment style. That is super important. But, you are ignoring it b/c anxious attachment style people create the exact kind of trap therapists warn them not to; they fall for unavailable men who have avoidant attachment styles. Your r/s is textbook. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mindful-dating/202003/why-you-might-attract-unavailable-partners

Ceglian, C. P., and S. Gardner. “Attachment Style: A Risk for Multiple Marriages?” Journal of Divorce and Remarriage 31 (1999): 125-39.

https://markmanson.net/attachment-theory

You claim that your married b/f is exactly who you want to be with. But...his behavior shows you otherwise. He is STILL married. He won't leave his wife until she gets a job (which is, as everyone's pointed out to you: an excuse on his part). Your married b/f is showing you with his behavior, that he is avoiding true emotional intimacy with you because he won't leave his wife for you. What you are doing is existing in a one-sided relationship with him. And for you to deny this, well, that's because you are struggling with.

Did you realize that avoidant attachment styles never date secure attachment styles? Why would they? That would mean that the avoidant person has to put in real effort to emotionally attach. And, so they choose anxious attachment styles, who will put in the work for the avoidant person, because they are natural caretakers and codependent personality types. 

Have you ever explored whether or not you have codependent personality traits at all? Are you a natural caretaker? In the context of this r/s with your married boyfriend, you are essentially doing all the work. Like I wrote in my previous post to you, he has his cake (his wife) and he eats it too (his affair with you). 

Anxious attachment styles tend to choose avoidant attachment styles because the avoidant personality reinforces deep insecurities that exist within the person who has an anxious attachment style. The avoidant personality sends the anxious personality mixed signals to keep them insecure and walking on eggshells, second guessing themselves, so that the avoidant personality doesn't have to answer for their lack of commitment in a direct way, that would force the anxious attachment personality to choose to stay with the avoidant personality or leave them.

Basically, the avoidant uses the mixed messages as a way to deflect and undermine the anxious attachment personality's self confidence and self-esteem about the context of their relationship. That's exactly what he has been doing to you for this past year with is hemming and hawing about why he can't move out of his home yet. He gives you convenient excuses to keep you at bay, but close enough to where when he's feeling amorous, he knows you'll let him come over so you two can have sex and "date." He isn't really committing to you in a truly loving way. He's using you for his own means right now, and it's temporary. Because he isn't even divorced yet. 

WC, this post is gold! Extremely informative and insightful.

Would you consider turning it into a separate thread so everyone can read?  I bet it would help a lot of people struggling to understand.

Just a thought. I'm pretty knowledgeable about this stuff but I learned something!  

Thnx for posting. 

[Watercolors]

4 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

WC, this post is gold! Extremely informative and insightful.

Would you consider turning it into a separate thread so everyone can read?  I bet it would help a lot of people struggling to understand.

Just a thought. I'm pretty knowledgeable about this stuff but I learned something!  

Thnx for posting. 

Thanks, Poppy! I might do that. I think that if every person figured out what their attachment style is, they would save themselves from a lot of heartache. I figured out what my attachment style is so now I know what my traps are and so far this summer I’ve avoided interacting with guys who have avoidant attachment styles. I’m waiting for guys with secure attachment styles to cross my path.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Watercolors

[poppyfields]

15 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

Thanks, Poppy! I might do that. I think that if every person figured out what their attachment style is, they would save themselves from a lot of heartache. I figured out what my attachment style is so now I know what my traps are and so far this summer I’ve avoided interacting with guys who have avoidant attachment styles. I’m waiting for guys with secure attachment styles to cross my path.

I think I may be an anxious avoidant, tough for me to admit that!

But good in that now I can take proper steps to resolve! 

Edited September 18, 2020 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

3 hours ago, Watercolors said:

Thanks, Poppy! I might do that.

WC, I just created it with a bit about my own anxious-avoidant issue.

I referenced your post too and how informative it was.

It's in the Transitioning/In Search Of section. 

I think it's an important topic!  

Edited September 18, 2020 by poppyfields

[Divorcedmama]

Thank you to everyone for their replies. I appreciate every one of them, and it certainly has given me so much to think about. I know in my heart that I trust my bf, yes he is still married and yes he still lives with his wife, but they have been through the counseling and divorce mediation and are totally amicable to each other and mutually decided that they could date other people. But yes, my bf gets to have his cake and eat it too.

I wrote this initially asking about when do couples generally start discussing and planning for marriage, but it has really opened my eyes to other important issues. It was actually friends and family that have issues with my relationship and feel bad for me, which triggered a lot of worry in me. I know if my mom was still alive she would never have approved of his age and marriage status. I know I have anxiety and probably co-dependent tendencies, and I'm fearful of getting older and unattractive, I'm fearful of abandonment. I want marriage because it was always my fantasy growing up to have that loving home, with the mom and dad and polite children, and I never had the loving home life with my ex-husband. Being a loving doting wife and caretaker is someone that I want to be. I want to have a husband with me in bed at night, and sometimes I stare out my kitchen window at my neighbors' husbands and have husband-envy as I watch them mow their yard. I want that idealized image of a husband living with me.

Being with my bf is a whole new experience for me. If I knew that relationships could be this easy and drama-free, and that I could have been with someone that actually appreciated me and was nice to me, and didn't ban my singing... I think for now it works for us, we are compatible, and the sex is amazing, which I have to say makes a huge difference. I have my independence still and he has time to process what is going on in his life. He makes me laugh all the time, and actually laughs at my jokes, we cook, go on long walks and bike rides, I take him hiking and around the city, and he fixes things around my house. And we share our work interests, which is a technical field so there is always pillow talk discussion about projects. And like I said, before COVID we saw each other every day at work, and that was enough for me (in addition to our normal time together)... I can't give him up. But I think I will go back to therapy.

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, Divorcedmama said:

It was actually friends and family that have issues with my relationship and feel bad for me, which triggered a lot of worry in me.

I want to have a husband with me in bed at night

Excellent. Your friends and family seem to have your back. Also what you desire is normal, sadly this "husband" is with his wife.

Technically this is sexual harassment because he is your superior at work and shouldn't be luring you into an affair with his lies about his divorce, making your place his love nest while his wife is at home where he still lives. .

He is moving the goal posts.  Now you are sucked in. Your job, your divorce, your loneliness are all factors.  Hopefully you stop socializing and stop this affair. You don't have to complain about the sexual harassment, but you need to end the affair.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Wiseman2

[Happy Lemming]

15 hours ago, Divorcedmama said:

I wrote this initially asking about when do couples generally start discussing and planning for marriage...

I've dated a lot of women in my life and in my experience, I usually started hearing the "marriage" talk at the two year mark.  I don't think I ever heard it at the 1 year mark. 

At around two years of dating this one woman (many, many years ago), she gave me an ultimatum of "get engaged to her" or "leave".   I left...  If you issue an ultimatum be prepared to handle the outcome.  The woman I was dating was not and cried into my answering machine for me to come back, I never returned. (this was when answering machines had cassette tapes in them, she filled up the tape begging me to come back)

 

15 hours ago, Divorcedmama said:

I want marriage because it was always my fantasy growing up to have that loving home...   Being a loving doting wife and caretaker is someone that I want to be... I want to have a husband with me in bed at night... I want that idealized image of a husband living with me.

 

"You can't always get what you want" - Mick Jagger (Rolling Stones)

Sometimes life isn't fair and we don't get what we want.

[Watercolors]

17 hours ago, Divorcedmama said:

Being with my bf is a whole new experience for me. If I knew that relationships could be this easy and drama-free, and that I could have been with someone that actually appreciated me and was nice to me, and didn't ban my singing... I think for now it works for us, we are compatible, and the sex is amazing, which I have to say makes a huge difference. I have my independence still and he has time to process what is going on in his life. He makes me laugh all the time, and actually laughs at my jokes, we cook, go on long walks and bike rides, I take him hiking and around the city, and he fixes things around my house. And we share our work interests, which is a technical field so there is always pillow talk discussion about projects. And like I said, before COVID we saw each other every day at work, and that was enough for me (in addition to our normal time together)... I can't give him up. But I think I will go back to therapy.

But he's not your boyfriend. He's your boss or coworker who is married to another woman. Like Wiseman2 pointed out, he's got you right where he wants you. He is using all of these factors (your job, your divorce, your loneliness) as a way to emotionally manipulate you. In essence, he is sexually harassing you despite your protests that he's just the greatest boyfriend to you ever. 

I think you want to be with a married man because in your mind, it's safer to you, to be with a married man, than to be with no man. And, you said in your OP that you were exiting a suffocating r/s with your previous boyfriend when your boss/coworker hit on you and you took the bait. 

What I see as an outside observer is two very lonely adults who are consoling each other through an extra-marital affair b/c neither of them is happy with their current r/s circumstances (he's married or legally separated, you're divorced). For now, this affair works for you both, b/c it prevents either of you from actually grieving the loss of your first marriages, so that you can emotionally heal and move on. You are each other's rebound, in essence. I feel bad for you b/c its not a real relationship, yet you are treating it as though it is. 

[FMW]

You have freedom and an easy, drama free relationship because he has a built in safety valve for your relationship - being married. That limits what you're able to get from him and expect from him and so the part of him you have (the fun, the romance, the great sex) is the part that doesn't have to deal with the usual stress that comes from being bound by law and family.  I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to make sure you see things clearly.  

If you enjoy things the way they are - right now - that's great, continue.  Just be very honest with yourself and don't be blinded by your hopes for the future.  Your relationship is going to remain limited until he takes the action to be fully available to you. His reasons for NOT divorcing don't matter, the result is the same.

BTW - I've had this same advice given to me by people who cared about me, and if I'd listened I might have saved myself some pain and wasted time.  

[2gr82balone]

Going to a counselor would help you sort out what you really want.  Your married boyfriend is content with his situation and you love him.   If you want to get married again and have children you’ll have to move on.  Chances are he will not want to start another family.  You’ll have to get those answers from him.   In his present situation he probably isn’t motivated to think about this.  Being single isn’t bad unless you want to be married.  Dating married and separated men is a gamble.