Where do you stand after 7 dates?

[Trail Blazer]

21 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

You sound a lot like my ex!  We had sex the first night we met, it wasn't even an actual date!  The chemistry was that intense.

We began dating after that night and later in the relationship, I asked him if he ever considered me "easy" or "sluttish" because I had sex with him so soon.

And he replied, rather boldly which was his typical style "hell no, I knew it was because you were HOT for me"!  Said with a sly smile.

And guess what, he was right!!  

Well, that's the thing.  Aside from my FWB, who I did feel was sluttish and easy, I've never felt that about any others.  I all knew they were hot for me.  My FWB was also hot for me, but she was somewhat crazy, as well as just being a nympho.

I suppose that I'd find it hard to reconcile with women who wouldn't want to ravage me after two or three dates and actually being sufficiently attracted to me.  If my only experience has been that of lusting me after a certain period of time, what's a man to deduce when all of a sudden it doesn't play out like all his past experiences would suggest?

I certainly don't need sex as a validation.  I just feel strongly in that, if a woman doesn't have that primal urge early on, it's not going to develop later.  I think OP would be being disingenuous if she said that she genuinely lusted for this guy, but suppressed those feelings to be certain that she wouldn't get pumped and dumped.

[poppyfields]

2 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Hey, if that's how you roll, go ahead and get naked to "validate" every random schmo who "needs" to get laid by date 3. 

Oh come on, every random schmo?  That isn't fair.  I was speaking specifically about men I am strongly attracted to and vice versa.  

Men with whom the chemistry is strong and high.

I've never just slept around with "random schmos," to validate them or otherwise.

I am in my late 30's and can count on two hands (less than two hands) the number of men I've had sex with.  

[Azincourt]

4 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Hey, if that's how you roll, go ahead and get naked to "validate" every random schmo who "needs" to get laid by date 3. 

That's kinda rude, don't you think?

I mean, a woman is cheap for having sex with a man she is attracted to?

My mother has and still has endless options with rich men and she never expected a guy to spend a dime on her, and she certainly didn't make the guy wait for it like her worth as a woman was based on how many dates she's been with before she ''puts out.''

Maybe it's the case of you being from a conservative nation?  Are you from a culture like Iran or Pakistan, places and cultures where a woman's value is based on her virginity, and the less partners she sleeps with the more money and land her father can charge her future husband for her hand?

If that's the case, it's natural if you can't understand why western women act the way that they do(having casual sex/not making the man they love/are attracted to) and why they have sex without the guy spending a lot of money on them.

It's because they have the freedom to choose the men they date and marry and hook-up with, based on things like physical attraction, chemistry, love, and sexual desire.  As it should be, and as it should be like in your Country and culture, but sadly I can't free Saudi Arabian women from the way they are forced to live.

[Inflikted]

7 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

There's no timeline. Some women will straight up sleep with you as soon as they meet you, and there are women who wait months for it to happen, and then there are women who are in-between those women.

Sure, sure. I guess the angle I was coming from is more so that I, myself, would have zero "expectations", like, ever, to the point where I'd feel romantically inept, and she would either think I'm disinterested, or she'd think I was "moving too slow", when in reality, I just wouldn't know what to do or when to do it.

[Happy Lemming]

30 minutes ago, meeji said:

I feel like the previous comment was taken out of context.

 

I read the entire post of the poster (in question), but instead of "quoting" the entire post, I trimmed it down to the core sentence. 

We've been advised by the moderators to trim down our quotes, as much as possible.  I'm trying to follow the suggestions of the owner and moderators of the forum, but trimming down my quotes.

[Trail Blazer]

4 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

That's kinda rude, don't you think?

I mean, a woman is cheap for having sex with a man she is attracted to?

My mother has and still has endless options with rich men and she never expected a guy to spend a dime on her, and she certainly didn't make the guy wait for it like her worth as a woman was based on how many dates she's been with before she ''puts out.''

Maybe it's the case of you being from a conservative nation?  Are you from a culture like Iran or Pakistan, places and cultures where a woman's value is based on her virginity, and the less partners she sleeps with the more money and land her father can charge her future husband for her hand?

If that's the case, it's natural if you can't understand why western women act the way that they do(having casual sex/not making the man they love/are attracted to) and why they have sex without the guy spending a lot of money on them.

It's because they have the freedom to choose the men they date and marry and hook-up with, based on things like physical attraction, chemistry, love, and sexual desire.  As it should be, and as it should be like in your Country and culture, but sadly I can't free Saudi Arabian women from the way they are forced to live.

I'm pretty sure @Ruby Slippers is as American as you and I.

[elaine567]

3 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

I read the entire post of the poster (in question), but instead of "quoting" the entire post, I trimmed it down to the core sentence. 

We've been advised by the moderators to trim down our quotes, as much as possible.  I'm trying to follow the suggestions of the owner and moderators of the forum, but trimming down my quotes.

Is that still a thing? I thought that ended when the new site started...

[Trail Blazer]

14 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Hey, if that's how you roll, go ahead and get naked to "validate" every random schmo who "needs" to get laid by date 3. 

That's a disappointing response.  You've pulled out the strawman instead of seizing on an opportunity to try and understand things from a perspective other than your own.  And, by doing so, you've also unfairly cut down @poppyfields in the process.

[poppyfields]

What's interesting is in recent weeks, there have been a few threads created by women lamenting about how the guy she was dating displayed no sexual interest in her, and how utterly deflated it made her feel and questioning whether or not he found her attractive and if he had that desire for her.

Now here, we have men stating that when the woman he is strongly attracted to makes him wait for sex, which is a need HE has to feel desired by her, he's called immature, a boy, selfish, etc.. 

I don't quite get the dichotomy but it is what it is I guess. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by poppyfields

[Happy Lemming]

15 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Is that still a thing? I thought that ended when the new site started...

I don't know... I just assumed it still was. 

I thought the purpose in trimming down quotes was two fold, one to help the software and two to make it easier for people who utilized their phones to navigate the forum.

Perhaps one of the moderators or Paul will chime in with an answer.

[meeji]

@poppyfields There's nothing wrong with people expressing their needs. I was rubbed the wrong way by the way some make posters communicated what those are.

"It makes me feel really good when you initiate sex and expess your desire for me because it makes me feel loved."

sounds very different from...

"We've had 3 dates already, but sex hasn't happened so I guess you're not interested. I'm out!"

 

[Ruby Slippers]

This is one of those threads/topics that will go on and on with nobody's mind really being changed.

So I'll leave it with my main point: it's very smart for a woman not to continue seeing a man who claims he doesn't know if he's into her because she hasn't had sex with him yet. She loses nothing by moving on from this guy. In fact, it's a great feeling to preserve your time and energy.

Any decent parent with a daughter would tell her the same.

[Azincourt]

Yeah, well, it's a generational shift we're going through here, I'm sure.  I'm a millennial. An old millennial, granted, but even when I was young, women who were really attracted to the men they were dating would be down with having sex quick, either because maybe they didn't want to lose the guy to some other woman, or because she doesn't feel like the guy would judge her for having sex with him without an interlude.

Women who are in their 40s, or 50s, or 60s; they were raised by a different generation of women, very far away from the generation of women who raised the women who are part of my generation, and younger, as these women in their 40s and 50s and so on were raised by women who didn't have the right to vote, the right to own property, the right to have a bank account, or to have their name as the owner of the house on a deed, and they were raised to make men wait for sex.

It's still like that in many parts of the world, but only because women aren't given freedom of choice to do what they want, sadly.

Since I date women in their 30s and 20s,  I'm going to see a woman wanting me to wait 3 dates, 5 dates, 10 dates, before she does anything sexual, months between the first time we first saw each other,  until something happens?

I'm going to see her as having no sexual interest in me.  What's the point of being part of a relationship where I gain nothing from it but she gets everything from it, and she has me against a wall, because she expects me to chill and not go and have sex with other women? How is that fair and equal and balanced?

I'd rather a woman straight up tell me that she doesn't think I'm hot instead of stringing me along for months on going on dates, and then maybe, maybe we have sex, and more often than not the sex is bad because she lacks experience, or she's just outright bad at it, or she doesn't feel attraction for me(hence why she made me wait months before she slept with me).

When I was young, I would wait a few months. Now it's hit or miss. Yes,  or no. I'm rather direct as I've always been in my entire life, but these days I straight up tell them I am not interested in waiting for more than one week for sex.  Maybe that's why I've been dumped thousands of times by thousands of women, hahaha, but thankfully I wasn't born in the middle of a tiny village with only 10 women to meet for my entire life, so it doesn't matter to me, being rejected, and the women who reject me can go on with their lives and find a better fit for them.

[Azincourt]

My father and my mother taught my sisters that no matter how quickly or how slowly a woman has sex with a man,  there is no guarantee the guy won't sleep with her and then dump her. That's a risk women have to go through, sadly, like men go through the risk of losing everything they have and will own, by marrying the wrong woman and then going through a divorce.

A guy who cares about you will care about you still as much as he did before you had sex with him. Having sex doesn't make a woman's value decrease in a man's eyes, at least for the right guy, that is. Lots of douchebags, like there's lots of gold-diggers out there just looking for a free meal and trying to extend those meals for as long as they want by going on dates and making the guy wait for sex, and more often than not the sex is awful, as I've experienced it myself  once or twice with 2 different gold-diggers. Being gorgeous doesn't automatically make a woman hot in bed, sorry.

Does a man think she's easy because she slept with him?

Then he should take care of his low self-esteem and his sexual insecurity.

 

[poppyfields]

36 minutes ago, meeji said:

@poppyfields There's nothing wrong with people expressing their needs. I was rubbed the wrong way by the way some make posters communicated what those are.

"It makes me feel really good when you initiate sex and expess your desire for me because it makes me feel loved."

sounds very different from...

"We've had 3 dates already, but sex hasn't happened so I guess you're not interested. I'm out!"

 

Agree!  As my mum wouid say (or used to say), it's not what you say but how you say it!  In fact I just made a post about that on another thread!  

Just to know, in your situation I think you did the right thing.  What was right for you.  

It's impossible to know exactly what he was thinking or feeling, but from what you posted, the guy sounded like a bit of a cad.  Just my sense.  

Edited September 13, 2020 by poppyfields

[Shining One]

13 hours ago, Fletch Lives said:

You don't have to have sex to fall in love with somebody........and you don't need test drives.

Isn't the entire point of dating a test drive? Both people are evaluating each other to determine compatibility for something more.

[Shining One]

3 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I'd appreciate that here's a woman who doesn't fall into bed with just anybody, hasn't accumulated tons of meaningless partners, and this could be something special.

A woman's potential to be special has nothing to do with how many men she's slept with.

2 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Men who have that rule have a certain mentality. They're not focused on finding a great partner. They're focused on scratching the next itch.

I don't believe you're qualified to judge men's intentions in this case. I'm a man and I know I'm not qualified to universally judge either. While I don't have a strict sex by X date rule, I still go for sex before emotionally investing with the goal of finding a great partner.

[Shining One]

2 hours ago, meeji said:

If you're looking for a partner, you're going to prioritize the added value being with the person can bring into your life as a whole.

Most of the women I've dated only switch from "sit back and observe" mode into "put in effort" mode after we have sex. Before we have sex, I'm usually planning and paying for all of our dates, initiating communication, offering to help her with various things, and so forth.

If the women I dated had actively put in effort to demonstrate their added value to my life before sex, then I might view things differently.

[Azincourt]

Quote

I'd appreciate that here's a woman who doesn't fall into bed with just anybody, hasn't accumulated tons of meaningless partners, and this could be something special.

Just anybody?

Women who with a high number of sex partners don't just sleep with anyone that crosses paths with them. Women aren't a 'insert 50 cents coin' and have a go, that's now how it works, gratefully so. 

When I was a young man, I met a 30-something woman, but you wouldn't know it because she was gorgeous and she looked early 20s at most, even most of her friends were in their early to mid 20s. 

We're talking and she randomly starts talking writing down the number and the names of the guys she hooked-up with that very year. Did I feel disgusted? No. Did I feel like she was easy? No. Did I think she was hella hot? Yes.  My friends and I went to a few nightclubs over the months, and I'd see her there talking to guys, rejecting lots and lots of guys, and eventually as we began to spend more time together, she decided she was attracted to me. Why?! I dunno, bro! Maybe her eyesight wasn't working so good that night.

We hooked-up, and we kept on dating for a couple of years until sadly she developed the desire for children and marriage, and no, I would have ended the relationship even if she was a pristine virgin, as I'm not interested in reproducing or in marriage(I'm not religious).

I loved her for who she was. That she was true to herself instead of changing herself to satisfy old, outdated soceital values of what a woman is and can't be, that takes a lot of courage.

Accumulated tons of meaningless partners?

1 - a woman's vaue is not based in the number of men she has slept with or hasn't.

2 - What's this,  who's to say they were meaningless partners? Is there something wrong with women enjoying casual sex or no-strings-attached relationships?

 3 -  I'm sure that there are women who spent their 20s sleeping with random men and had little to no standards,  and now that they're in their 40s they regret what they did when young because the men they meet are wealthy conservatives, and they aren't all that thrilled to marry a woman with a number of sex partners higher than zero, but there are lots and lots of women who've enjoyed their lives in the way they saw fit to do so and they don't regret anything.

And that's how it should be.

Sex isn't dirty.  Sex isn't immoral. Sex isn't a sin.

Sex is the one thing that elevates me from a mortal to a god, because the act of sex is the act of creation.

Even if she doesn't get pregnant, DUH!

[princessaurora]

Uhh, I'm so glad I'm married and not dating in today's world ! This 3 date rule blows my mind. So does the dumping of someone immediately after having sex for the first time if its not that good. 

Firstly, Some people are just awkward and nervous, but if you give them a chance, the sex may be amazing next time around,  once they learn their partners rhythm and let down  their guard. Anyone who drops someone they've been dating after first time sex may be really missing out, unless that's all they cared about from the get go. 

Secondly, many men use the 3 date rule as a manipulation. For some women sex is a major act of intimacy. People are merging their most private body parts together and for many they're not going to do that with every guy they go out on a few dates with. 

Meeji,  if you didn't feel he was into you, or just trying to get to sex,  you had every right to stop seeing him. Believe me, there are plenty of guys who don't put a number on how many dates =sex like it's a math equation. I'm a very sexual person, but I've also always been very selective of who I have sex with. I don't judge anyone who has sex on a first date because I did  on occasion.  Sometimes it just feels right and it just happens. But most of the time I waited way beyond that. It just progressed naturally and I was never pressured. I would let the guy know I desired him in other ways (compliments, heavy petting, sometimes oral), but we also just enjoyed going  out and getting to know each other. Plus it gave enough time to build anticipation and have those conversations that made the eventual sex that much hotter.  I've never had a guy dump me because I didn't put out fast enough. They all waited until it was right for both of us. Sometimes it was a week, sometimes a month.   I waited about three months with my now  husband to have sex. I wanted him from the get go, but he was fresh out of a relationship and I didn't want to be his rebound girl. My gut was telling me, hold off with this one, so I listened.  I was always touching and flirting with him though, putting my hand down his pants, giving him bjs We were all over each other and  he knew I desired him. I made it clear we would eventually get it on. We filled our time with dinner dates, movies, hiking, playing mini golf, and just hanging out at his house or mine. We always had a good time and never got bored with each other.  And when we did it  the first time it wasn't perfect, but I was so connected with him by that point I knew it would just get better and by the 3rd time, it was the hottest, most toe curling sex of my life.  So people do need to have sex more than once to know if they're sexually compatible because sometimes nerves really do get in the way.

Just  trust your instincts meeji. If it doesn't feel right, walk away. There are still respectful men out there who won't pencil in sex on their calendar the minute you agree to go on a date with them. And honestly letting sex happen naturally without knowing the  exact date and time is usually much more satisfying than giving in to some manipulative guy's  3 date minimum. 

 

 

 

 

 

[smackie9]

IMO everyone is different in what they are comfortable with...some are OK to have sex first as part of the process, and some want exclusivity first. None of that is wrong or right, it's just a matter of how one feels. The OP did the right thing for herself...there wasn't enough interest in a commitment or even interest in her, so I don't blame her for putting on the brakes. There are better options out there.

Edited September 13, 2020 by smackie9

[Azincourt]

41 minutes ago, princessaurora said:

Uhh, I'm so glad I'm married and not dating in today's world ! This 3 date rule blows my mind. So does the dumping of someone immediately after having sex for the first time if its not that good. 

Firstly, Some people are just awkward and nervous, but if you give them a chance, the sex may be amazing next time around,  once they learn their partners rhythm and let down  their guard. Anyone who drops someone they've been dating after first time sex may be really missing out, unless that's all they cared about from the get go. 

Secondly, many men use the 3 date rule as a manipulation. For some women sex is a major act of intimacy. People are merging their most private body parts together and for many they're not going to do that with every guy they go out on a few dates with. 

Meeji,  if you didn't feel he was into you, or just trying to get to sex,  you had every right to stop seeing him. Believe me, there are plenty of guys who don't put a number on how many dates =sex like it's a math equation. I'm a very sexual person, but I've also always been very selective of who I have sex with. I don't judge anyone who has sex on a first date because I did  on occasion.  Sometimes it just feels right and it just happens. But most of the time I waited way beyond that. It just progressed naturally and I was never pressured. I would let the guy know I desired him in other ways (compliments, heavy petting, sometimes oral), but we also just enjoyed going  out and getting to know each other. Plus it gave enough time to build anticipation and have those conversations that made the eventual sex that much hotter.  I've never had a guy dump me because I didn't put out fast enough. They all waited until it was right for both of us. Sometimes it was a week, sometimes a month.   I waited about three months with my now  husband to have sex. I wanted him from the get go, but he was fresh out of a relationship and I didn't want to be his rebound girl. My gut was telling me, hold off with this one, so I listened.  I was always touching and flirting with him though, putting my hand down his pants, giving him bjs We were all over each other and  he knew I desired him. I made it clear we would eventually get it on. We filled our time with dinner dates, movies, hiking, playing mini golf, and just hanging out at his house or mine. We always had a good time and never got bored with each other.  And when we did it  the first time it wasn't perfect, but I was so connected with him by that point I knew it would just get better and by the 3rd time, it was the hottest, most toe curling sex of my life.  So people do need to have sex more than once to know if they're sexually compatible because sometimes nerves really do get in the way.

Just  trust your instincts meeji. If it doesn't feel right, walk away. There are still respectful men out there who won't pencil in sex on their calendar the minute you agree to go on a date with them. And honestly letting sex happen naturally without knowing the  exact date and time is usually much more satisfying than giving in to some manipulative guy's  3 date minimum. 

 

Yeah, but you are still being sexually intimate and making sure the guy's enjoying the time you spent with him as much as possible. These women are taking about acting like nuns and expecting their dates to spend an immense amount of time, emotional work and money on them, in return for nothing, for months and months. There's a huge difference between going on dates and receiving and providing oral sex, and  going on dates, and getting to listen to someone talk to themselves like they're auditioning for America's got Talent, and they expect you to pay for the honour of listening to their problems, I guess *shrugs*

b

41 minutes ago, princessaurora said:

 

 

 

 

[SumGuy]

On 9/12/2020 at 2:38 PM, meeji said:

Greetings!

I am curious to know from both male and female perspectives where you would be at the 7th date mark. I recently broke it off with a guy because I felt like we had spent enough time together to have a general idea, but he was saying he needed more intimacy (sexual) to figure out how he felt about me.  He claimed that his emotions are disengaged until sex happened.

It felt like a "try it before you buy it " scenario to me because from the start he was trying to skip steps in the dating process. I'm not looking for casual. I feel like plenty of relationship-minded men would be fine with going at a slower pace. 

Your thoughts? 

I'm very much a sex positive person, and must be honest have never found myself in the situation where we haven't had sex by date seven. 

Nevertheless, his reasoning is BS.   I go out on dates because the person is fun and I feel chemistry.  You don't need sex to know how you feel about someone, in fact sex is only going to mess it up where you can easily think you like them when it is really the sex you are liking.  Now I can see wondering about sexual compatibility, but that is completely different than knowing how you feel about someone.

To be fair, this may really be the way he is....but for me that is a red flag, just way too incompatible with how I see things or the person I would want.   I want to have sex with people I have chemistry for and have affection for it's not the other way around. 

My thoughts, move on.

 

[Azincourt]

6 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

I'm very much a sex positive person, and must be honest have never found myself in the situation where we haven't had sex by date seven. 

Nevertheless, his reasoning is BS.   I go out on dates because the person is fun and I feel chemistry.  You don't need sex to know how you feel about someone, in fact sex is only going to mess it up where you can easily think you like them when it is really the sex you are liking.  Now I can see wondering about sexual compatibility, but that is completely different than knowing how you feel about someone.

To be fair, this may really be the way he is....but for me that is a red flag, just way too incompatible with how I see things or the person I would want.   I want to have sex with people I have chemistry for and have affection for it's not the other way around. 

My thoughts, move on.

 

I actually need to have sex with someone to figure out if what I'm feeling for her is honest and true and real, and my feelings begin to lose their strength and vitality as time goes by without her having sex with me, because I begin to feel unsexy, unattractive, and dumply, instead of how I'd feel if she was actually attracted to me. She makes me wait? She's not attracted to me, or would she like if I was to become only emotionally nurturing, caring, loving and attentive - after sex? 

Because expecting me to act like a boyfriend while not being a boyfriend is kinda manipulative no?

[SumGuy]

On 9/12/2020 at 3:05 PM, meeji said:

What I want to know is after 7 dates is anyone confused or still figuring out what the potential looks like with the person you're seeing, or do you usually know before that? .

No, never confused about how I feel or see things after 7 dates (not that minds don't change).  Now as to potential, that comes in stages, the more serious commitment takes more time for me to figure out if this is for real.  In fact, it is in the beginning (honeymoon) phase where one usually has few doubts, and take it "slow" to see if this is real.   The more it sustains and the deeper it gets the more real it feels.

 

Quote

I feel like this partucular guy was just thirsty from quarantine and thought I would be down for the ride. My vibe was that he wasn't particularly interested in me as a person, but what he could get from me during the dry spell. So, I ended it.

Sounds about right.

Quote

I'm more or less wondering how many dates it takes others to know that they want to take it to the next step.

By next step do you mean sex?  I'd be hard pressed to find an example where the chemistry wasn't there from date 1.  These are dates that always go to closing time and maybe a bit after, just can't get enough of talking to each other.  Dates 2 and 3 are to see if it is consistent, I try to hold off to date 3 as a general "rule."

Edited September 13, 2020 by SumGuy