Trying to understand this bipolar girl

[Watercolors]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

This info comes straight from my doctors. 

We're not talking about your BP diagnosis, poppy. I gave general information to the OP. Don't make this about you. It's not. 

[Watercolors]

33 minutes ago, basil67 said:

There's a difference between being an 'artist' and being 'into art'.  The first being professional and the second being amateur.   The first puts their work out for public consumption and the inevitable criticism.   The latter does it because it's a hobby....and in the case of the latter, it doesn't matter if they have a mental illness or not - the basic rule of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" applies.    Seriously.   If the person in the foreground is a bit wonky, compliment the texture of the leaves on the tree. 

Yes, I agree. There is a difference. If the OP can't even give this girl feedback based on his opinion without having her go into a nuclear meltdown because she doesn't like what he said, then she is extremely immature and that is separate from her bipolar diagnosis.

It's silly to advise the OP "only say nice things about her art so you don't upset her." She's an adult. If she is going to freak out, anytime she shows her art to *anyone* including the OP, she shouldn't show her art to anyone. But she freaked out on him for a week giving him the silent treatment, deleting him from her social media. All because of a comment he made about her art. She.needs.to.grow.up.

My cousin is an artist. His first wife was an artist and was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. They went into financial ruin because of her mental illness. My poor cousin had to quit doing his art to take care of his wife, b/c she would constantly get fired from her part-time jobs, or get kicked out of her own art exhibits for yelling at the patrons when she'd ask them for their opinion on her artwork. She even destroyed their studio apartment, tearing up sofa cushions, breaking dishes, screaming and crying and having constant melt downs. And she was on meds (supposedly). My grandmother cut her head out of all the family photos she was in, after my cousin divorced her. She was really mentally ill. And was in an out of inpatient day program treatments and even stalked my cousin at his parent's house. He had to file bankruptcy after he divorced her and spent 3 years living with his parents just to rebuild his life and get back to making his art again. He's remarried to a non-artist and very happy and doing his art again. 

Not every bipolar 1-2 person will be the two extremes I've posted about here (my ex-roommate and my cousin's first ex-wife). But it's just to give the OP some scope of the extremes with that mental illness. I think he's better off just keeping things platonic with her and keeping her as a social acquaintance. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Watercolors

[basil67]

@Watercolors I'm not talking about being bipolar.  I'm talking about basic etiquette towards friends of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all".   I've seen friend's amateur art which I think is wonky, but I'd never be so rude as to say what I think to their face.  

Whether a friend is bipolar or not, they deserve to have their amateur work treated with kindness by those who care for them.    

[Watercolors]

37 minutes ago, basil67 said:

@Watercolors I'm not talking about being bipolar.  I'm talking about basic etiquette towards friends of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all".   I've seen friend's amateur art which I think is wonky, but I'd never be so rude as to say what I think to their face.  

Whether a friend is bipolar or not, they deserve to have their amateur work treated with kindness by those who care for them.    

I understand, basil67. I just disagree with you, because its art, and art is subjective.  

I'm not a mean person bit I also won't hold back on my opinion. When my cousin offered me a painting he did, I turned him down because I didn't like it. I thought it was hideous. I offered to return it to him after he gave it to my mom, to give to me. My mom had kept it for years in her living room, displayed, until she went into her nursing home last year. When I offered to return his painting to him, he declined. So, I donated it. 

By your standards, I should have been polite, and accepted his painting regardless of my true feelings about it. Well, I can't operate that way. 

I'm not advising the OP to be blunt like me. I'm just not advocating lying. If this woman can't handle ANY comments about her artwork, then she has no business showing it off to anyone, including the OP. Sure, the OP could placate her by choosing one positive thing to say about her painting. But, why should he not be his true self whereas she gets to be, because she's a sensitive artist who has bipolar disorder? I think that's totally unfair. He has to walk on eggshells just so she won't freak out again, if he says anything at all about her artwork to her. That's just immature behavior, mental illness or not. 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Watercolors

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, Watercolors said:

We're not talking about your BP diagnosis, poppy. I gave general information to the OP. Don't make this about you. It's not. 

I wasn't dear, the general information you gave was incorrect so I thought I'd correct it, that's all.

There is a lot of misinformation out there specifically as it relates to Bipolar 2 and psychosis.

As I have it, I know a bit about it through my doctors, my own experience and research my doctors provided me, and wanted to share that. 

What's your source?  Rhetorical question.

Unless you are a doctor or you have it yourself as I do, and under the care of doctors as I am, be careful what you circulate because the info you gave about Bipolar 2 and psychosis was incorrect.

Edited September 1, 2020 by poppyfields

[Watercolors]

1 minute ago, poppyfields said:

I wasn't dear, the general information you gave was incorrect so I thought I'd correct it, that's all.

There is a lot of misinformation out there specifically as it relates to Bipolar 2 and psychosis.

As I have it, I know a bit about it through my doctors, my own  experience and research my doctors provided me, and wanted to share that. 

What's your source?  Rhetorical question.

Unless you are a doctor or you have it yourself as I do, and under the care of doctors as I am, be careful what you circulate because the info you gave about Bipolar 2 and psychosis was incorrect.

Again, I just advised the OP to look it up. I was extremely vague.

And, I wasn't pretending to be an expert or arm chair psychiatrist.

It's up to the OP to decide what he should do about his situation with a bipolar woman he's attracted to. 

[poppyfields]

Just now, Watercolors said:

It's up to the OP to decide what he should do about his situation with a bipolar woman he's attracted to. 

Agree!

[Fabian1609]

1 hour ago, Watercolors said:

Yes, I agree. There is a difference. If the OP can't even give this girl feedback based on his opinion without having her go into a nuclear meltdown because she doesn't like what he said, then she is extremely immature and that is separate from her bipolar diagnosis.

It's silly to advise the OP "only say nice things about her art so you don't upset her." She's an adult. If she is going to freak out, anytime she shows her art to *anyone* including the OP, she shouldn't show her art to anyone. But she freaked out on him for a week giving him the silent treatment, deleting him from her social media. All because of a comment he made about her art. She.needs.to.grow.up.

My cousin is an artist. His first wife was an artist and was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. They went into financial ruin because of her mental illness. My poor cousin had to quit doing his art to take care of his wife, b/c she would constantly get fired from her part-time jobs, or get kicked out of her own art exhibits for yelling at the patrons when she'd ask them for their opinion on her artwork. She even destroyed their studio apartment, tearing up sofa cushions, breaking dishes, screaming and crying and having constant melt downs. And she was on meds (supposedly). My grandmother cut her head out of all the family photos she was in, after my cousin divorced her. She was really mentally ill. And was in an out of inpatient day program treatments and even stalked my cousin at his parent's house. He had to file bankruptcy after he divorced her and spent 3 years living with his parents just to rebuild his life and get back to making his art again. He's remarried to a non-artist and very happy and doing his art again. 

Not every bipolar 1-2 person will be the two extremes I've posted about here (my ex-roommate and my cousin's first ex-wife). But it's just to give the OP some scope of the extremes with that mental illness. I think he's better off just keeping things platonic with her and keeping her as a social acquaintance. 

I am not going to defend the girl. I agree that she may overacted but I also want to say that she didn’t ask for my opinion. I pushed her to show me her paintings and I said something like “is good but not something that is going to be on a museum” I understand that my words were not nice, I apologized for that since I have the tendency to give my opinion when no one asks, is something that I’m trying to correct. 

[chillii]

l don't know about the rest , but she goes out on that massive limb and tells you she loves you but you didn't even respond, wth not. Have you any idea what that would've done to someone like her, you should've at least talked to her but now your wondering why she blocked you , what the ?  But at anyrate , haven't read through the whole thread yet but l have a personal interest in this subject and l will. l do agree with what's being said though and l doubt too , there is anything you can do anyway. For whatever reasons pop up every time , you'll probably find the cycle just keeps on cycling.They can have a long term relationship or marriage but it takes a very very special person and love to deal with them and cope.

ps, just read your last post and the painting thing is also understandable when said to someone like her , like l said , it would take a very very special person and love to deal with her and cope.

Edited September 1, 2020 by chillii

[chillii]

5 hours ago, Fox Sake said:

What did you say about her artwork?  I feel like this was the start of something going wrong. That seemed to be the turning point in your story as well as her saying she felt you were critical.  

Not having a go at you here, and I could be way off, you’ve obviously been left hurt and confused, but I get the feeling that with you trying to “help” her, what actually happened was you were critical of her in your approach and pointed out flaws in her character or areas of her life she should address. Or something to that effect. Just food for thought for you.
We can’t figure her out but there’s a chance for you to try and figure out what you could have done or anything you need to reflect on with yourself. 
 
Art is also often a reflection of a part of them. A piece of their soul, so to speak. Paintings either touch you or they don’t. Any constructive criticism or otherwise by someone so sensitive, is taken as a direct insult to the person,  not the work itself. Especially given her BP.

 

Exactly right , and we can quadruple that intensity when saying it to someone like her. 

 

 

[Watercolors]

33 minutes ago, Fabian1609 said:

I am not going to defend the girl. I agree that she may overacted but I also want to say that she didn’t ask for my opinion. I pushed her to show me her paintings and I said something like “is good but not something that is going to be on a museum” I understand that my words were not nice, I apologized for that since I have the tendency to give my opinion when no one asks, is something that I’m trying to correct. 

She definitely overreacted. I think suffice it to say, you and she are *not* compatible. You need to be with a mentally strong woman who is just as opinionated as you are. She is extremely fragile emotionally, the way she overreacts to everything and everyone. Her block/unblock cyclical behavior with you will get old...fast. If that is not something you are mentally willing to endure (now that she's shown you her push/pull pattern), then you should be relieved that she blocked you. But...as history repeats itself, she may suddenly unblock you again. How will you react? And, why did she tell you she loved you? Did I miss that part of your posts? 

[basil67]

22 minutes ago, Fabian1609 said:

I am not going to defend the girl. I agree that she may overacted but I also want to say that she didn’t ask for my opinion. I pushed her to show me her paintings and I said something like “is good but not something that is going to be on a museum” I understand that my words were not nice, I apologized for that since I have the tendency to give my opinion when no one asks, is something that I’m trying to correct. 

The fact that you won't defend a reaction from someone who you know is fragile from your rudeness speaks volumes about the dysfunction of your relationship.

If someone had pushed me to show my work and then criticised it, I'd probably tell them to F off.  Perhaps you could consider this a more appropriate reaction?

[alphamale]

where are you folks getting your info on Bipolar 1 and Bipolar 2?  90% of it is wrong. Go back to Wikipedia and read up.  I am bipolar 1 and was diagnosed way back in 1989

Edited September 2, 2020 by alphamale

[Highndry]

Don't walk away, RUN.

[poppyfields]

51 minutes ago, alphamale said:

where are you folks getting your info on Bipolar 1 and Bipolar 2?  90% of it is wrong. Go back to Wikipedia and read up.  I am bipolar 1 and was diagnosed way back in 1989

I am Bipolar 2 for years (again not as severe as Bipolar 1) and my information came from my doctors and information they provided me, not Wikipedia.

That said, this thread is not about that, we don't even know what type of Bipolar she's been diagnosed with - 1 or 2.

It doesn't matter, this thread isn't about that, like WC said, it's about what the OP should do about the woman he is attracted to who has been diagnosed with a mental illness. 

Edited September 2, 2020 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

Since there has been some discussion about this, out of curiosity, I looked up Bipolar II on Wikipedia as alphamale suggested:

>>Bipolar II disorder is a bipolar spectrum disorder characterized by at least one episode of hypomania and at least one episode of major depression.  

Diagnosis for bipolar II disorder requires that the individual must never have experienced a full manic episode.  Otherwise, one manic episode meets the criteria for bipolar I disorder.<<

This is exactly what my doctors advised me as well, and my experience. 

[Watercolors]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

The fact that you won't defend a reaction from someone who you know is fragile from your rudeness speaks volumes about the dysfunction of your relationship.

If someone had pushed me to show my work and then criticised it, I'd probably tell them to F off.  Perhaps you could consider this a more appropriate reaction?

But that's the kind of woman the OP needs to be with. That's all I'm saying. He should be with a woman who will tell him to F off, when he states his opinion. It's surely better to have real communication between two people who respect each other, than a power imbalance where one person has to pussy foot and walk on egg shells for fear of saying anything that will set off their partner's emotional barometer. I don't think the OP and this woman have very compatible personalities, from what I've read. They just don't seem to fit well together. A sensitive person should not be with someone who has a strong, outgoing personality. I don't see how those opposites could work together. 

[basil67]

43 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

But that's the kind of woman the OP needs to be with. That's all I'm saying. He should be with a woman who will tell him to F off, when he states his opinion. It's surely better to have real communication between two people who respect each other, than a power imbalance where one person has to pussy foot and walk on egg shells for fear of saying anything that will set off their partner's emotional barometer. I don't think the OP and this woman have very compatible personalities, from what I've read. They just don't seem to fit well together. A sensitive person should not be with someone who has a strong, outgoing personality. I don't see how those opposites could work together. 

A strong, outgoing personality can also be kind.  But the OPs actions were unkind.  And let me be clear, I am not the kind of woman who the OP should be with because I would not respect a partner who gives unkind unsolicited opinions to me or others.   

The OP knows he has a problem with this and is 'working on changing'.  If he was able to do a respectful relationship, he'd just stop doing it.

Edited September 2, 2020 by basil67

[Watercolors]

37 minutes ago, basil67 said:

A strong, outgoing personality can also be kind.  But the OPs actions were unkind.  And let me be clear, I am not the kind of woman who the OP should be with because I would not respect a partner who gives unkind unsolicited opinions to me or others.   

The OP knows he has a problem with this and is 'working on changing'.  If he was able to do a respectful relationship, he'd just stop doing it.

Yes, you have a point basil67. A strong, outgoing personality can also be kind. I don't think the OP needs to change who he is. Telling her that her painting was good, but not good enough to be in a museum probably caught her off guard. And yes, I can see how his comment could be taken as a personal insult. As long as the OP is willing to work on his delivery, I see no problem with him being himself 100%. I know plenty of men who are dry and sarcastic by nature. You almost expect them to insult you because it's who they are. But, you also know that their insults are mere jabs, or that they are teasing because they are good guys in general. 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Watercolors

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 hours ago, Fabian1609 said:

I am not going to defend the girl. I agree that she may overacted but I also want to say that she didn’t ask for my opinion. I pushed her to show me her paintings and I said something like “is good but not something that is going to be on a museum” I understand that my words were not nice, I apologized for that since I have the tendency to give my opinion when no one asks, is something that I’m trying to correct. 

Whoa...

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 hours ago, Fabian1609 said:

I am not going to defend the girl. I agree that she may overacted but I also want to say that she didn’t ask for my opinion. I pushed her to show me her paintings and I said something like “is good but not something that is going to be on a museum” I understand that my words were not nice, I apologized for that since I have the tendency to give my opinion when no one asks, is something that I’m trying to correct. 

Once my husband told me with kind of a little laugh that he wouldn't exactly consider writing (I'm a writer) an art.

I considered ripping his thing off.

Edited September 2, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, Fabian1609 said:

I am not going to defend the girl. I agree that she may overacted but I also want to say that she didn’t ask for my opinion. I pushed her to show me her paintings and I said something like “is good but not something that is going to be on a museum” I understand that my words were not nice, I apologized for that since I have the tendency to give my opinion when no one asks, is something that I’m trying to correct. 

Ok, being blunt is an entirely unrelated issue.

The main issue is she told you she has bipolar disorder and some other issues. 

She has also demonstrated significant unstable and unhealthy behavior.

Do not try to fix her. All of this has absolutely nothing to do with art, artistic talent or whether or not you like her stuff. The tortured artist thing is a romanticized view of this.

It has to do with your attraction to her and subsequent observation of her moods. Remember, new and random and chaotic while it may intrigue you, doesn't mean there's a great connection going on.

The bottom line is she leveled with you about her problems and she's clearly too unstable to date.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Wiseman2

[Acacia98]

9 hours ago, Watercolors said:

We're not talking about your BP diagnosis, poppy. I gave general information to the OP. Don't make this about you. It's not. 

I don't think she's making it about her. I think she's correcting some information you shared in your post. And she mentions her source to show that it is a professional source. Nothing wrong with that.

[Acacia98]

16 hours ago, Fabian1609 said:

I also need to say that she is pretty unpredictable. She is fire, she doesn’t think things too much and is funny to be around, in the opposite, I overthink a lot and I’m cold. She confessed me her bipolar condition but told me that she is on meds and under control. However, the last month has been a roller coaster with her, she gets offended by everything I say. I made a comment about one of her paintings and she got so upset that stopped talking to me for a week and removed me from all her social media. Then, after a week without her talking to me, we finally started talking again and she was the same sweet and bubbly girl. Until yesterday, when she told me that she was having an episode, she actually cut herself again and this time it was pretty bad, she told me that she can not be in a relationship now and is completely depressed. I mentioned her that we can be friends, she agreed, told me that she loves me. I didn’t respond to that and now, she blocked from every social media. I don’t know what is going on and I don’t know if she is going to come back. Should I just quit to her forever? I want to help her but she doesn’t allow me and is pushing me again.

I don't think you guys can be friends, even platonic ones. Her tendency to cut communication off completely and then try to reconcile later would eventually ruin any relationship.

And your unkind remarks/digs (I guess we're calling them "bluntness") would hurt many, including someone with very low self-esteem who engages in self-harming behavior.

The kindest thing you can do (for yourself and for her) is to leave her alone.

[elaine567]

16 hours ago, Fabian1609 said:

I want to help her

You are doing a pretty good job of not helping her IMO. I guess you are attracted to her because she is pretty and has a fun bubbly  personality but that is not really who she is.
She is obviously not stabilised on her meds.
She has cut you off, because you are not helping, listen to her. 
Leave her alone...